Ubenedictus: hmm...everybody with a bible who claims to have the holyspirit proclaims himself qualified to interprete scriptures independently, a beauty my friend luther created.

Most fascinating, there are things that are very clear in the word of God. But how people interprete them is pretty amazing, that is what this thread is about.

Do you know that i read somewhere that the more of the word of the word of God you read, the more the spirit of God you have in you? But let us leave that for another day.

So what is the conclusion of this thread? No correct answer has been accepted yet? Even with all the christians and pastors on board?

So far one of the best threads I have seen on Nairaland. Too bad I didnt stumble upon it on time. Its funny how there is one Bible, yet many interpretations. Reason, some people have a set doctrine in mind even before they open their bibles. The trinity doctrine being one of them. No one who believes the that Jesus is equal with his God and Father would even be willing to accept any contrary idea. I appreciate the efforts of all that participated, especially those who let scripture answer scipture.

I must say I am impressed with truthislight, plappvile, ijawkid, barrister for their sound bible-based contributions.

The major issue with Frostbel is how the conviniently ignores things stated in the Bible, when it doesnt support his view. I read the many scriptures posted to you on the issue of pre-existence, and I think you are fighting the bible.

Ubenedictus and the other trinitarians, I see your position. If I believed in the trinity, which I do not, the idea of Jesus being the same as Michael would sound blasphemous to me.

Pastormustwacc, nice thread.

I think I have a few things to add too.

Oahray: So far one of the best threads I have seen on Nairaland. Too bad I didnt stumble upon it on time. Its funny how there is one Bible, yet many interpretations. Reason, some people have a set doctrine in mind even before they open their bibles. The trinity doctrine being one of them. No one who believes the that Jesus is equal with his God and Father would even be willing to accept any contrary idea. I appreciate the efforts of all that participated, especially those who let scripture answer scipture.

I must say I am impressed with truthislight, plappvile, ijawkid, barrister for their sound bible-based contributions.

The major issue with Frostbel is how the conviniently ignores things stated in the Bible, when it doesnt support his view. I read the many scriptures posted to you on the issue of pre-existence, and I think you are fighting the bible.

Ubenedictus and the other trinitarians, I see your position. If I believed in the trinity, which I do not, the idea of Jesus being the same as Michael would sound blasphemous to me.

Pastormustwacc, nice thread.

I think I have a few things to add too.

one doesn't need to believe the trinity to know that Jesus is michael all you need is heb 1, it clearly shows Jesus isnt an angel, d father neither address him as angel in heb, and i can't find the been stated implicitly in scriptures what i see in heb convinces me that Jesus isn't an angel.
Anyway you are entitled to your opinion! I'm more suprised that all the early xtians even the heretics believe Jesus was not an angel! Again u are entitled to your opinion

The issue of Jesus pre-existence has clearly been thrashed out in previous comments with verses such as:
.
"And now, O Father, glorify me with your own self with the glory which I had with you before the world was ." - John 17:5 . (NKJV) (Jesus said this himself)
.
"And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ ." -1 Cor 10:4 . (NKJV) (Paul said this)
.
"For I came down from heaven , not to do my own will, but the will of him that sent me." -John 6:38 . (NKJV) (Jesus said this)
.
I choose to quote many translations' rendering of the next verse, John 6:62 , because this verse is very clear on this issue:
.
New International Version- "What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!"
.
New American Standard Bible- "What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before?"
.
International Standard Version- "What if you saw the Son of Man going up to the place where he was before?"
.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English- “Truly you will see therefore The Son of Man ascending to the place where he was from the first."
.
King James 2000 Bible- "What if you shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?"
.
Douay-Rheims Bible- "If then you shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?"
.
English Revised Version- "What then if ye should behold the Son of man ascending where he was before?"
.
Webster's Bible Translation- "What if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?"
.
Weymouth New Testament- "Does this seem incredible to you? What then if you were to see the Son of Man ascending again where He was before?"
.
If after these things the bible teaches, you still deny Jesus' pre-existence, you are simply calling him (Jesus) a liar.

Ubenedictus: one doesn't need to believe the trinity to know that Jesus is michael all you need is heb 1, it clearly shows Jesus isnt an angel, d father neither address him as angel in heb, and i can't find the been stated implicitly in scriptures what i see in heb convinces me that Jesus isn't an angel.
Anyway you are entitled to your opinion! I'm more suprised that all the early xtians even the heretics believe Jesus was not an angel! Again u are entitled to your opinion

I would get to Heb 1. But before then, tell me please, the meaning of the term 'angel'. I am willing to learn.

@Oahray, thanks for the contribution. But alas, this thread is getting more and more fascinating. I sure say even Jesus and/or Arc Angel michael dey follow the thread sef.

sunkoye:


We read not of any appearance of God's glory to Joshua till now. There appeared to him one as a man to be noticed. This Man was the Son of God, the eternal Word. Joshua gave him Divine honours: he received them, which a created angel would not have done, and he is called Jehovah, chap. 6:2. To Abraham he appeared as a traveller; to Joshua as a man of war. Christ will be to his people what their faith needs. besides rahab must survive the war.

Behold, I send an Angel before you to keep you in the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared.
Beware of Him and obey His voice; do not provoke Him, for He will not pardon your transgressions; for My name is in Him. Exodus 23:20-21
^
delegation by Yahweh and not Yahweh.

Yahweh did authorise certain angel to bear his name.

Boomark:

@plappy

v7 shows that it was Isaiah speaking.

v8 For He said, "Surely they are My
people, Children who will not lie."
So He became their Savior.

who is the one that said this and became their saviour? Is it the angel? I don't think so. Angels command and protect the people of God.

v9 if you read from v1, you will understand that God is the one who has trodden down the people in His anger, He is the One who is afflicted by the affliction of His people.

If God does not want to save them, He will not send the angel of HIS presence to save them. No one loves these people like God does. In His love and pity, He repurchased/redeemed them.

If you read v10 down, you will see how it is making reference to the Father not the angel.

My brother you are on point, but you did not code my target. Sure i did read it from au debut and I did know It was Isaiah
talking, and that It was Yahweh that trod down in anger. (Isaiah 51:17,isaiah 34:5)surport this also.

My point is that, "the Angel of His presence" is referred to the Messiah!
He was the one that saved them; In His love and in His mercy He redeemed them, And He lifted them and carried them all the days of old.

This Angel is the Christ of the NT, it has always been Jesus all along who has led God's people, even through all the days of old.

Ubenedictus: one doesn't need to believe the trinity to know that Jesus is michael all you need is heb 1, it clearly shows Jesus isnt an angel, d father neither address him as angel in heb, and i can't find the been stated implicitly in scriptures what i see in heb convinces me that Jesus isn't an angel.
Anyway you are entitled to your opinion! I'm more suprised that all the early xtians even the heretics believe Jesus was not an angel! Again u are entitled to your opinion

Before the book of Hebrew, were there not older book that spoke about Christ, even if the name Jesus was not mentioned?
keep blind eyes of the OT and then suite yourself with pretence by jumping to the NT.

Keep up the good work people!

Ubenedictus: sorry lad, my bible never once said Jesus is an angel. Man u are on ur own, besides if d other princes arent our servants like michael, wu are they?

I have already posted this answer you can scroll back. You have skiped several questions that you fail to treat.
These verses: (Judges 13:15-23 and Isaiah 9:6) and some others. Please do if you can.

This thread reminds me of the question jam answer song:

When question drop from mouth, question go start to run.
When answer drop from mouth, answer run after am.
When answer jam question for road, another thing go sele o!

Where is Ubenedictus ? Still no answer on the meaning of 'angel'?

^^^that one mean to say, them no sabi the answer be dat.

What the Bible says about angels - What's the truth?

Before exploring what the Bible says about the reality of angels, we should know the origin and meaning of the word. "Angel" is translated from the Greek word angelos or the Hebrew word mal'ak. The word means messenger and is often used of a guardian, ambassador, or representative.

The Bible states the following in Colossians 1:16: "For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him." This means these spiritual beings are created by God!

In Hebrews 1:14, they are said to be "ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation." Hebrews 12: 22 says they are "innumerable." Angels are referenced many times throughout the Bible. But are angels as we've come to think of them?

Collectors have angels in porcelain; artists portray them with beautiful wings, long flowing hair, and adorned in glitter with halos. Writers might describe them as mystical and sometimes ghostly. Hollywood has brought them into our view as travelers in a Cadillac or as lustful beings deciding to stay on Earth for the sake of Eros love.

God's word describes His angels as messengers, mighty warriors, and guides. He used them to appear to Hagar, Mary and Joseph, Daniel, John, Paul, and numerous others throughout the Scriptures.

In Matthew 28:2, we are told that an angel rolled away the stone over the tomb of Jesus. We gather from this verse that angels have tremendous physical power and strength. These attributes are used in battles such as told in 2 Kings 19, Isaiah 37, and in Revelation.

This should give us comfort as Psalms 91:11-12 says God has given angels charge over us, to keep us and protect us: "For he will command his angels concerning you to guard you in all your ways; they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone." They are rarely visible, but we can often feel their presence.

Angels may take on various forms, including at times, a human form. Hebrews 13:1-2 says, "Keep on loving each other as brothers. Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some people have entertained angels without knowing it."

Source: http://www.allaboutspirituality.org/what-the-bible-says-about-angels-faq.htm

Thanks @pastormustwacc for that. Its clear. 'Angel' is gotten from the term 'angelos' meaning messenger. However, it is mostly applied to spirit creatures. This means that ANY spirit person who is God's messenger or minister can rightly be termed God's angel.
.
Rev 12:9 shows that the dragon, Satan has his angels too. These spirits were once God's angels, but now Satan's since they switched allegiance to Satan, thus becoming his messengers or ministers. Satan too was once an angel.
.
That said, is it blaspemy to refer to Jesus as God's angel? Let us examine the bible together...

Ist criteria...
.
SPIRIT
We have seen from scripture that Jesus had a prehuman existence in heaven. The bible shows that Heaven is inhabited by spirits. So Jesus was obviously spirit too. This is confirmed by his mode of return.
.
"Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;" -1 Pet 3:18 (American standard version)
.
This makes sense because 1 Cor 15:42-50 shows that one cannot enter heaven with flesh and blood as that which is corruptible cannot inherit that which is incorruptible.
.
After 40days since his resurrection, the spirit Jesus ascended into Heaven, back to where he came from.
.
Jesus in heaven is spirit!
.
What about the 2nd criteria? MESSENGER... Lets examine that too.

Let us start with the definition of messenger...
.
According to the Merriam Webster dictionary...
.
mes·sen·ger (noun) \me-sən-jər\
1 : one who bears a message or does an errand: as
a) (archaic) : forerunner, herald
b) : a dispatch bearer in government or military service
c) : an employee who carries messages
2 : a light line used in hauling a heavier line (as between ships)
3 : a substance (as a hormone) that mediates a biological effect.
.
According to Longman dictionary of contemporary English:
Messenger: (n) Someone whose job is to deliver messages or documents, or someone who takes a message to someone else.
.
Now we have seen the definition, let us marry it with the term 'angel'. Angel is therefore a spirit messenger; that is, a spirit who bears a message or runs an errand.
.
Does this apply to Jesus? Lets see from the Bible.

Oahray: So far one of the best threads I have seen on Nairaland. Too bad I didnt stumble upon it on time. Its funny how there is one Bible, yet many interpretations. Reason, some people have a set doctrine in mind even before they open their bibles. The trinity doctrine being one of them. No one who believes the that Jesus is equal with his God and Father would even be willing to accept any contrary idea. I appreciate the efforts of all that participated, especially those who let scripture answer scipture.

I must say I am impressed with truthislight, plappvile, ijawkid, barrister for their sound bible-based contributions.

The major issue with Frostbel is how the conviniently ignores things stated in the Bible, when it doesnt support his view. I read the many scriptures posted to you on the issue of pre-existence, and I think you are fighting the bible.

Ubenedictus and the other trinitarians, I see your position. If I believed in the trinity, which I do not, the idea of Jesus being the same as Michael would sound blasphemous to me.

Pastormustwacc, nice thread.

I think I have a few things to add too.

We r not talkin about the pre-existence of christ here, of course the Bible attested to his pre-existence (b4 abraham was, I AM). One thing that baffled me here is after readin the book of Hebrew chapter 1 someone still hav a small wit to twist the Bible to suit an organiztional interpretation dat Jesus is arch-angel Micahel. Thats really pathetic!

There is no where the Bible called, imagined, portrayed Jesus as angel Michael. This is a simple lie that enamates from the devil and any organization that represents him on earth.

Heb 1:4 (Jesus was made so much better than the angels)

Heb 1:5 (the father called only Jesus the only begotten, it was not said to any angel, even angel Michael)

Heb 1: 6 (God commanded all angels to worship jesus, i mean all, incudin angel Michael)

Heb 1:8-12 ( God attributed divinity attributes to Jesus)

Heb 1:13-14(God exalted Jesus christ to 'sit at his right hand'). We all knw wat a right hand man/person means in a power structure.

Rev 1:17-20 (Jesus is the 1st and the last, the one dat lives and was dead and alive forever and has the key of hell and death)

Rev 22:12-13,16(Jesus is coming to reward evryman accordin to his work. He is the alpha and omega,not angel michael, the beginning and the end. The first and last. Jesus gave the revelations to John to testify to the churches things dat must come to pass. He is the 'root and offspring of david', the 'bright and morning star'

The person of Jesus bears no ambiguity. Arch angel michael, like other angels, is a ministring spirit unto the churches. Both Jesus and Michael are two diffrent and saparate entities. Jesus christ is the one that became a man, through whose death brought salvation to whoever belives on his name.

He is the savior who shed his blood for the remission of sins. He was obedient unto the father even unto his death. The reason God exalted him and gave him a name above evry name, that in his name evry knee must bow (in prayer). He has the power to save, heal and forgive sins.

God sent him because he loves the world and anyone that believes in him will not perish but have evelasting life (john 3:16). Anyone dat believes in Jesus will not perish, that is wat the Bible says. ALL power has been given unto Jesus both on earth and in heaven(MATTHEW 28:18). All power was not given to arch angel Michael.

Enough of dis misinterpretation and blasphemy
and twistin of the scriptures to support an unfounded and false doctrine.

true2god: We r not talkin about the pre-existence of christ here, of course the Bible attested to his pre-existence (b4 abraham was, I AM). One thing that baffled me here is after readin the book of Hebrew chapter 1 someone still hav a small wit to twist the Bible to suit an organiztional interpretation dat Jesus is arch-angel Micahel. Thats really pathetic!

There is no where the Bible called, imagined, portrayed Jesus as angel Michael. This is a simple lie that enamates from the devil and any organization that represents him on earth.

Heb 1:4 (Jesus was made so much better than the angels)

Heb 1:5 (the father called only Jesus the only begotten, it was not said to any angel, even angel Michael)

Heb 1: 6 (God commanded all angels to worship jesus, i mean all, incudin angel Michael)

Heb 1:8-12 ( God attributed divinity attributes to Jesus)

Heb 1:13-14(God exalted Jesus christ to 'sit at his right hand'). We all knw wat a right hand man/person means in a power structure.

Rev 1:17-20 (Jesus is the 1st and the last, the one dat lives and was dead and alive forever and has the key of hell and death)

Rev 22:12-13,16(Jesus is coming to reward evryman accordin to his work. He is the alpha and omega,not angel michael, the beginning and the end. The first and last. Jesus gave the revelations to John to testify to the churches things dat must come to pass. He is the 'root and offspring of david', the 'bright and morning star'

The person of Jesus bears no ambiguity. Arch angel michael, like other angels, is a ministring spirit unto the churches. Both Jesus and Michael are two diffrent and saparate entities. Jesus christ is the one that became a man, through whose death brought salvation to whoever belives on his name.

He is the savior who shed his blood for the remission of sins. He was obedient unto the father even unto his death. The reason God exalted him and gave him a name above evry name, that in his name evry knee must bow (in prayer). He has the power to save, heal and forgive sins.

God sent him because he loves the world and anyone that believes in him will not perish but have evelasting life (john 3:16). Anyone dat believes in Jesus will not perish, that is wat the Bible says. ALL power has been given unto Jesus both on earth and in heaven(MATTHEW 28:18). All power was not given to arch angel Michael.

Enough of dis misinterpretation and blasphemy
and twistin of the scriptures to support an unfounded and false doctrine.

your error is as a result of a limitation due to trinity.

And you dont know who and angel is.

Again, you dont get the sense of that Hebrews.

You may have to go read the whole of the thread again with an open mind.

Take note. The trinity is not a bible teaching.

True2god, I wouldnt answer you again until am thru with what I am doing. Didnt you read where I said I would talk about Heb 1 later?
.
Did any of the prophetic verses of the old testament mention Jesus by name as the messiah? No. Did the new testament do so? Yes.
.
My point... Rigidly dwelling on just one part of the scriptures would only keep you in your voluntary ignorance. Scripture answers scripture just as the new testament answered the question of who the messiah was.
.
Stop being a tumbling block to people who truly wants to know the truth from the bible.

truthislight:

your error is as a result of a limitation due to trinity.

And you dont know who and angel is.

Again, you dont get the sense of that Hebrews.

You may have to go read the whole of the thread again with an open mind.

Take note. The trinity is not a bible teaching.

I hope u read my post before commenting. Nowhere in the new testament the bible writers of matthew, mark, luke John and the apostles who wrote the epistles made reference to Jesus as as arch angel Michael. Non and nowhere. Any contrary doctrine is a straw man doctrin trying to shift the person of Jesus to an angel. Do u knw that human beings will judge angels, includin arch angel Michael, on the last day (1 cor 6:3)? It is in the scriptures.

In order word humans bein will Judge Jesus also,a.k.a, your angel Michael. Do u knw that human beings are related equal with angels? Where do u get ur doctrines and who is feeding u lies without questioning?

Wat u guys are sayin (callin Jesus angel michael) is not differnt frm one yoruba man callin His jesus 'Jesu oyingbo'. If your Jesus, watchtower Jesus, is angel Michael den the Jesus u r servin is like 'jesu oyingbo', which is quite different from my Jesus.

My Jesus is:
1) the mighty God, Isaiah 9:6
2) the prince of peace, Isaiah 9:6
3) the everlastin father, isaiah 9:6
4) the alpha and omega, rev 1:17-20
5) the Word made flesh, John 1:14
6) the creator, John 1:10
7) the Lion of the tribe of Judah
the root and offspring of David
9) the bright and morning star
10) the great teacher
11) the express image of the father
12) the 'son of God'
13) the future judge of the world
14) the image of the invisible God and the 1st born of all creation, colosian 1:15
15) God manifestation in the flesh, 1timothy 3:16.
16) Emmanuel, God be with us
17) the savior of man-kind from sin
18) the way, the truth and the life
19) the one in whose name all knee must bow
20) the baptizer with the Holy spirit, John baptizes with water.

If your Jesus does not meet any of these basic requirement den it is quite obvios that the Jesus watch-tower, or u ,is preachin is different from the Jesus of the Bible. And frm my observation, usin this thread it is now clearer that Jesus of the christians is differnet from Jesus of the Jehova's witnessses. Cos Jesus of the Jehova witness is arch angel Michael while the Jesus of the christians is the alpha and omega, the first and last, the prince of peace, the everlastin father and the mighty God (Isiaiah 9:6).

#smh... Maybe I should stop.
@true2god, the reason for threads like this is not to win arguments or make yourself the sole righteous person there is. There are people out there who hunger for the truth. Its as simple as stating your beliefs with bible backing. The Bible is the authority, not any church. At least the Jehovah's witnesses show you from the Bible. Do you bother to listen and reason from the Bible? No. Because you have your mind all made up already.
For once in a thread, I thought I was dealing with people mature enough to consider evidence before ranting away in a show of fanaticism. I was wrong. I guess I just do that some other time, or in another thread, as my reason for contributing isnt simply to win any argument.
Any lover of truth will examine his beliefs carefully.
Peace.

true2god: I hope u read my post before commenting. Nowhere in the new testament the bible writers of matthew, mark, luke John and the apostles who wrote the epistles made reference to Jesus as as arch angel Michael. Non and nowhere. Any contrary doctrine is a straw man doctrin trying to shift the person of Jesus to an angel. Do u knw that human beings will judge angels, includin arch angel Michael, on the last day (1 cor 6:3)? It is in the scriptures.

In order word humans bein will Judge Jesus also,a.k.a, your angel Michael. Do u knw that human beings are related equal with angels? Where do u get ur doctrines and who is feeding u lies without questioning?

Wat u guys are sayin (callin Jesus angel michael) is not differnt frm one yoruba man callin His jesus 'Jesu oyingbo'. If your Jesus, watchtower Jesus, is angel Michael den the Jesus u r servin is like 'jesu oyingbo', which is quite different from my Jesus.

My Jesus is:
1) the mighty God, Isaiah 9:6
2) the prince of peace, Isaiah 9:6
3) the everlastin father, isaiah 9:6
4) the alpha and omega, rev 1:17-20
5) the Word made flesh, John 1:14
6) the creator, John 1:10
7) the Lion of the tribe of Judah
the root and offspring of David
9) the bright and morning star
10) the great teacher
11) the express image of the father
12) the 'son of God'
13) the future judge of the world
14) the image of the invisible God and the 1st born of all creation, colosian 1:15
15) God manifestation in the flesh, 1timothy 3:16.
16) Emmanuel, God be with us
17) the savior of man-kind from sin
18) the way, the truth and the life
19) the one in whose name all knee must bow
20) the baptizer with the Holy spirit, John baptizes with water.

If your Jesus does not meet any of these basic requirement den it is quite obvios that the Jesus watch-tower, or u ,is preachin is different from the Jesus of the Bible. And frm my observation, usin this thread it is now clearer that Jesus of the christians is differnet from Jesus of the Jehova's witnessses. Cos Jesus of the Jehova witness is arch angel Michael while the Jesus of the christians is the alpha and omega, the first and last, the prince of peace, the everlastin father and the mighty God (Isiaiah 9:6).

when i had said "your limitation" in my last post i never knew how limited in knowledge you are and i never knew how right i was until this your post.

See what you said :

true2god:
Do u knw that human beings will judge angels, includin arch angel Michael, on the last day (1 cor 6:3)? It is in the scriptures.

now what has Yahweh's holy angels done wrong that they need to be judge? Nothing!

And the judgement awaiting angels is not for them since they have been with the archangel in battling satan and will come with christ to execute Yahweh's judgement at the end. Rev. 12 and Rev. 19:11 down.

The truth is, the angels that will be judge are the fallen angels that are now called demons.

This are the angels that foresook their original position and came to earth to take up the daughters of men as wives in Noah's day, and dematerialise during the flood to head back to heaven but were bared from entering heaven and left in tatarus.

You see your life? You are finished, completely misled and now a novice of what Yahweh's plans are.

Now you need my sympathy cus it is not a deliberate action but an action driven by ignorance that is blinding you from the truth of God's word.

Do you now see why you should cool down and read the bible and not just follow the lies that has been fed you all along?

Well, you can either take my advice or you continue with this folly.

Anyway, it was good that you spoke out, if not, how will we have come to know the fraud that you had taken in all this while?

Another fraud you need to run from is the trinity.
Anyway, keep reading the bible.
Peace.

Oahray: #smh... Maybe I should stop.
@true2god, the reason for threads like this is not to win arguments or make yourself the sole righteous person there is. There are people out there who hunger for the truth. Its as simple as stating your beliefs with bible backing. The Bible is the authority, not any church. At least the Jehovah's witnesses show you from the Bible. Do you bother to listen and reason from the Bible? No. Because you have your mind all made up already.
For once in a thread, I thought I was dealing with people mature enough to consider evidence before ranting away in a show of fanaticism. I was wrong. I guess I just do that some other time, or in another thread, as my reason for contributing isnt simply to win any argument.
Any lover of truth will examine his beliefs carefully.
Peace.

dont mind him.

It is not only tru2god that is reading this thread, if you have something to contribute go ahead and dont mind him.

He is like a pregnant woman that wants to deliver all the falsehood he has been impregnated(fed) with, that is why he is screaming like a pregnant woman.

If he likes let him learn.

The JW that he is talking about and him who have more love for christ as to imitate christ ways and actions and command/teachings?

Just leave him.
Peace

true2god: I hope u read my post before commenting. Nowhere in the new testament the bible writers of matthew, mark, luke John and the apostles who wrote the epistles made reference to Jesus as as arch angel Michael. Non and nowhere. Any contrary doctrine is a straw man doctrin trying to shift the person of Jesus to an angel. Do u knw that human beings will judge angels, includin arch angel Michael, on the last day (1 cor 6:3)? It is in the scriptures.

In order word humans bein will Judge Jesus also,a.k.a, your angel Michael. Do u knw that human beings are related equal with angels? Where do u get ur doctrines and who is feeding u lies without questioning?

Wat u guys are sayin (callin Jesus angel michael) is not differnt frm one yoruba man callin His jesus 'Jesu oyingbo'. If your Jesus, watchtower Jesus, is angel Michael den the Jesus u r servin is like 'jesu oyingbo', which is quite different from my Jesus.

My Jesus is:
1) the mighty God, Isaiah 9:6
2) the prince of peace, Isaiah 9:6
3) the everlastin father, isaiah 9:6
4) the alpha and omega, rev 1:17-20
5) the Word made flesh, John 1:14
6) the creator, John 1:10
7) the Lion of the tribe of Judah
the root and offspring of David
9) the bright and morning star
10) the great teacher
11) the express image of the father
12) the 'son of God'
13) the future judge of the world
14) the image of the invisible God and the 1st born of all creation, colosian 1:15
15) God manifestation in the flesh, 1timothy 3:16.
16) Emmanuel, God be with us
17) the savior of man-kind from sin
18) the way, the truth and the life
19) the one in whose name all knee must bow
20) the baptizer with the Holy spirit, John baptizes with water.

If your Jesus does not meet any of these basic requirement den it is quite obvios that the Jesus watch-tower, or u ,is preachin is different from the Jesus of the Bible. And frm my observation, usin this thread it is now clearer that Jesus of the christians is differnet from Jesus of the Jehova's witnessses. Cos Jesus of the Jehova witness is arch angel Michael while the Jesus of the christians is the alpha and omega, the first and last, the prince of peace, the everlastin father and the mighty God (Isiaiah 9:6).

Just see how you dey display ur ignorance, are you scared of knowing the truth? if no, then hear others out. You are missing up things yourself just listen to the ♪ till the end if u want to get the message!

Oahray: #smh... Maybe I should stop.
@true2god, the reason for threads like this is not to win arguments or make yourself the sole righteous person there is. There are people out there who hunger for the truth. Its as simple as stating your beliefs with bible backing. The Bible is the authority, not any church. At least the Jehovah's witnesses show you from the Bible. Do you bother to listen and reason from the Bible? No. Because you have your mind all made up already.
For once in a thread, I thought I was dealing with people mature enough to consider evidence before ranting away in a show of fanaticism. I was wrong. I guess I just do that some other time, or in another thread, as my reason for contributing isnt simply to win any argument.
Any lover of truth will examine his beliefs carefully.
Peace.

It is better not to listen to unserious fellow, this is a public forum, many are open to learn/know new things. you cannot stop Gods work because someone provoked you! you are on point with ur definitions, please continue from were you stoped. We are following up. God bless!

truthislight:

when i had said "your limitation" in my last post i never knew how limited in knowledge you are and i never knew how right i was until this your post.

See what you said :



now what has Yahweh's holy angels done wrong that they need to be judge? Nothing!

And the judgement awaiting angels is not for them since they have been with the archangel in battling satan and will come with christ to execute Yahweh's judgement at the end. Rev. 12 and Rev. 19:11 down.

The truth is, the angels that will be judge are the fallen angels that are now called demons.

This are the angels that foresook their original position and came to earth to take up the daughters of men as wives in Noah's day, and dematerialise during the flood to head back to heaven but were bared from entering heaven and left in tatarus.

You see your life? You are finished, completely misled and now a novice of what Yahweh's plans are.

Now you need my sympathy cus it is not a deliberate action but an action driven by ignorance that is blinding you from the truth of God's word.

Do you now see why you should cool down and read the bible and not just follow the lies that has been fed you all along?

Well, you can either take my advice or you continue with this folly.

Anyway, it was good that you spoke out, if not, how will we have come to know the fraud that you had taken in all this while?

Another fraud you need to run from is the trinity.
Anyway, keep reading the bible.
Peace.

This is pure ignorance and pride. He has first refuse to here out @Oahray, pressing to prove he love Jesus more than anyone does by ending up in errors.

plappville:

This is pure ignorance and pride. He has first refuse to here out @Oahray, pressing to prove he love Jesus more than anyone does by ending up in errors.

well, he has seen why it is good to follow the bible and not to follow layed down "tradition" that contradict the bible.

pastormustwacc: @Oahray, thanks for the contribution. But alas, this thread is getting more and more fascinating. I sure say even Jesus and/or Arc Angel michael dey follow the thread sef.

it has already been defined by d verse in heb 1 dat say "are they not all ministering spirits..." chukwudi already defined it!

plappville:

Before the book of Hebrew, were there not older book that spoke about Christ, even if the name Jesus was not mentioned?
keep blind eyes of the OT and then suite yourself with pretence by jumping to the NT.

all i need to show the stupidity of ur theory is one scripture, just one and truth is told!

Oahray: Where is Ubenedictus ? Still no answer on the meaning of 'angel'?

sorry dear, im not jobless and can't spend all day on nairaland! I gat stuff to do!