KunleOshob:

None, the tithing doctrine does not apply to christians. It was never directed at us hence there is no need to twist God's word to fit a banker paying "tithes". If God wanted money as tithes the bible would have made it clear. And it would also have been directed to christians and not just Israelites living under the law.

Halleluyah!!!!!

@ Kunleoshob

It amazes me to see that u've been on this issue for 2years plus and still no change from anyone. I guess I saw someone say he had a change of mind after reading posts from this thread, I would rather say that he is not strong in faith and he can be deluded at anytime and more. If I happen to come up with another Issue like 'God does not exist' he will tend towards my view cos he has no say or he is sort of among the I concur fellows.

Let us just do want we think is right and stop judging others cos God never kept us as judge over anyone.

But all the same I really want to appreciate you on the manner you've conducted yourself throughout this period, I mean relaying your information with less arrogant and accusations. But remember to follow peace with all men as Christ directed.

GOD BLESS.

^^^
On the contrary a lot of people who were ignorant of the truth about about tithes have now come to understand it better based on this thread and I can assure you that I have received several communications from nairalanders who have stopped be ripped off in the name of tithes based on the truths revealed to them in this thread. If a christian has faith in paying tithes, he can't truly be a christian as tithes has absolutely nothing to do with true christian doctrines handed down to us by christ and the apostles. Tithing as it is preached today is a selfish and greed motivated doctrine of man based on twisted scripture.

^^^ Do you mind these people that have turned Church into an ATM machine/business Inc., LLC, LTD, etc

D-optimist:

@ Kunleoshob

It amazes me to see that u've been on this issue for 2years plus and still no change from anyone. I guess I saw someone say he had a change of mind after reading posts from this thread, I would rather say that he is not strong in faith and he can be deluded at anytime and more. If I happen to come up with another Issue like 'God does not exist' he will tend towards my view cos he has no say or he is sort of among the I concur fellows.

  D-optimist, let me assure you that the number of people that this thread has affected is far far beyond what even Kunle himself can imagine. There are far more people who read and walk away than those who post, infact this is my first post on this thread, even though I've followed every single comment and discussion. I can personally say, Kunle changed my mind 2 and half years ago on a lot of things and in turn I shared with my fellowship group - many of whom have migrated from here to florida, washington, arizona and subsequently shared with the people they have around them. Never underestimate the power of what is said here on NL. The good Lord in heaven will surely bless Kunle for all his efforts on this issue.

Let us just do want we think is right and stop judging others cos God never kept us as judge over anyone.

But all the same I really want to appreciate you on the manner you've conducted yourself throughout this period, I mean relaying your information with less arrogant and accusations. But remember to follow peace with all men as Christ directed.

GOD BLESS.

A resounding AMEN to that.

@Jesoul
Thanx for the compliments and prayers, it is my prayer that God would continue to reveal himself to us all and we would find it in us to do his perfect will.

And this is the beauty of God - He uses such as kunle who the MOGs probably thought is nothing to free people from the bondage they imposed on them. Insults, threats and even violence will not stop truth no matter what they think. Not in Jesus day and NOT today!

The gates of hell will not prevail

nuclearboy:

And this is the beauty of God - He uses such as kunle who the MOGs probably thought is nothing to free people from the bondage they imposed on them. Insults, threats and even violence will not stop truth no matter what they think. Not in Jesus day and NOT today!

The gates of hell will not prevail

Amen!

As Christians we are no longer under the law but under grace. But that doesn't reduce the obligation to "tithe" but only increase it. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 8:7-9 "But as you excel in everything - in faith, in speech, in knowledge, in all earnestness, and in our love for you - see that you excel in this act of grace also ("this act of grace" is referring to giving if you read the context). I say this not as a command, but to prove by the earnestness of others that your love also is genuine. For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor so that you by his poverty might become rich."

We are not required to give to gain access to God. Those who are in a real living relationship with God will see that God gave them everything in Jesus and therefore say, "Everything I have is only by the grace of God." That leads to sacrificial giving. Not 10%, not 20% but an attitude of everything belongs to Him and I will give accordingly. Giving proves to us that God is more valuable to us than silver and gold. Closing question, do you have money, or does money have you? Let's use our God given resources to see His Kingdom come.

@mickey
I hope you read through the thread properly before commenting, no one has advocated here that christians shouldn't give what we have been trying to say is that the way tithes is being preached today is wrong, vicious and fraudulent. That christian giving should be as you purpose in your heart and that the emphais of christian giving in the bible was directed towards giving the poor and the needy and less emphasis was given towards giving to the church, even the church collections of the early church was used mostly to take care of the poor and the needy.

Thank you, I did read the thread and I felt what I said would help in the discussion, maybe I wasn't clear. But in response to your recent comment, I agree that a great emphasis was given to giving to the poor and needy but that doesn't negate passages like, 1 Timothy 5:17 "Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honour, especially those who labour in preaching and teaching." The Church must have been giving well to support God's kingdom building, if we have all giving with no gospel proclamation we become a glorified social club. If you have a pastor / teacher who "doesn't peddle the word of God for profit" and who actually qualifies for the position (1 Timothy 3:3 - "Not a lover of money" then there shouldn't be a problem. Maybe by God's grace I've not had to suffer the type of teaching that you have been exposed to, so therefore am seeing things from the other perspective, I'm sure we are singing from the same "hymn sheet"!

MickeyC:

As Christians we are no longer under the law but under grace. But that doesn't reduce the obligation to "tithe" but only increase it.

Hi @ MickeyC, I do apologise, but your first two sentences contradict each other. One cannot be "under grace" and at the same time "obliged". First serve sails over the baseline  .

MickeyC:

But that doesn't reduce the obligation to "tithe" but only increase it. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 8:7-9 "But as you excel in everything - in faith, in speech, in knowledge, in all earnestness, and in our love for you - see that you excel in this act of grace also ("this act of grace" is referring to giving if you read the context).

Your third sentence then contradicts your second one. You appear to be making "Increasing Obligation" synonymous with "Increasing (Excelling) in grace". Not content with a poor second serve, you also proceed to make a foot fault., as your ending "act of grace is refering to giving", is clearly at variance with your earlier notion of "increasing obligation".

So dude you lose this one by a series of unforced errors. Your opponent barely breaking sweat. O boy, you no try at all at all.

First round exit.

Yours Bro' Umpire !

MickeyC:

We are not required to give to gain access to God. Those who are in a real living relationship with God will see that God gave them everything in Jesus and therefore say, "Everything I have is only by the grace of God." That leads to sacrificial giving. Not 10%, not 20% but an attitude of everything belongs to Him and I will give accordingly. Giving proves to us that God is more valuable to us than silver and gold. Closing question, do you have money, or does money have you? Let's use our God given resources to see His Kingdom come.

Hmmm, and please don't think I overlooked the above. Valiant effort to be sure , but that your last sentence, ah, ah. See as you come fumble easy return

My advise? Work on your service, returns, shot selection and positioning. Some stamina work and strength training would probably go a long way as well. Omo, wild card no be beans 0 !

Yours Bro' Coach

MickeyC:

Thank you, I did read the thread and I felt what I said would help in the discussion, maybe I wasn't clear. But in response to your recent comment, I agree that a great emphasis was given to giving to the poor and needy but that doesn't negate passages like, 1 Timothy 5:17 "Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honour, especially those who labour in preaching and teaching." The Church must have been giving well to support God's kingdom building, if we have all giving with no gospel proclamation we become a glorified social club. If you have a pastor / teacher who "doesn't peddle the word of God for profit" and who actually qualifies for the position (1 Timothy 3:3 - "Not a lover of money" then there shouldn't be a problem. Maybe by God's grace I've not had to suffer the type of teaching that you have been exposed to, so therefore am seeing things from the other perspective, I'm sure we are singing from the same "hymn sheet"!

Oh man!!!! I shoulda seen this coming. See as you jus' come scatter de whole tin'. Defaulted, retired, whatever. _{Have you considered a non-sporting career.}

Yours Concerned Bro'

It's just that the tithing people are starting to refine their arguments with more twisting here and there. Obviously Malachi is not enough anymore as we've seen through that one.

Ha ha! I enjoy the banter. Maybe we should define our terms! But I don't have a problem with saying that we are under grace so therefore that leads to us living in a certain way. Obligation is an "ok" word to use, meaning, moral constraint. To quote Romans, "So then brothers we are debtors." Paul certainly thought we would be obliged or under constraint to live in a certain way. In fact he describes us as slaves to obedience. Again sounds like obligation. The hymn writer catches is wonderfully well, "O, to grace how great a debtor daily I'm constrained to be." That doesn't mean those "obligations" save us, (Ephesians 2:8 couldn't be clearer) but those obligations/works assure us that we are saved. What does James say? "You see a person is justified by works and not by faith alone" (I'm waiting of the accusations of me "contradicting myself" but I am just quoting two scriptures!). We are saved by grace through faith alone, but that faith is never alone, it will always be accompanied by works else it isn't genuine faith. What we believe always will result in action. But we are saved purely by grace alone.

I'm just waiting for the onslaught I'm going to receive,   Well iron sharpens iron - to quote Proverbs (although I'm sure from your previous comments you wouldn't consider me as iron!!!)

^^ Friend, seems to me its you that the banter is eating here . Don't mind TV01 abeg - he's just pulling your legs. However, and in the Spirit of truth, looking under the words he used to glean the meaning he passed across will serve you well.

Grace leaves you under no obligation except gratitude which is what you'd like to say informs your desire to give, right? But that is you and you cannot decide for another whether it is service to the poor or helping a widow fetch water or teaching orphans for free that is the manner in which they show their gratitude. Have you ever considered that the only one that matters to the men on the pulpits is the cash that comes into their coffers? Is that their own gratitude?

well i pay my tithes >>> cool with it >>> if the pastors are decievin' >>> they have God & their concience _if there's any left !!_to face !!

nuclearboy:

Have you ever considered that the only one that matters to the men on the pulpits is the cash that comes into their coffers? Is that their own gratitude?

Yes!!!

MickeyC:

Ha ha! I enjoy the banter.

And I appreciate your humour and demeanour in comprehending that. No offense was intended and  I'm glad non was taken. May I unoficially recieve you to the NL religion board.  Welcome sir!

MickeyC:

Maybe we should define our terms!

So you can't play tennis but fancy yourself at semantics abi? Ok 0!

MickeyC:

But I don't have a problem with saying that we are under grace so therefore that leads to us living in a certain way. Obligation is an "ok" word to use, meaning, moral constraint. To quote Romans, "So then brothers we are debtors." Paul certainly thought we would be obliged or under constraint to live in a certain way. In fact he describes us as slaves to obedience. Again sounds like obligation.

I am loathe to  teach until I am unmistakebly called to - and not by man - but kindly permit me to share my little apprehension of grace with you.

Grace is a teacher and enabler, a tutor, and a transformer. So, far example, one previously hated giving; enter grace. Now such a one does not so much feel obliged or constrained to give - morally, legally or otherwise - it becomes his very nature. One does not do what comes naturally out of obligation. Or do you feel obliged to continuously net those weak first serves? No it's 'cos of your puny arm muscles, its your nature !

MickeyC:

(I'm waiting of the accusations of me "contradicting myself" but I am just quoting two scriptures

Not contradicting yourself in this instance, confusing yourself would be more apt here,  We are contrasting giving vs. tithing, grace vs law,  obligation vs. freewill. Not having established a position there, you then proceeded to needlessly throw in salvation, works, justification and a whole bunch of stuff. More thought, less haste. Shot selection again!

Indeed you "quoted two scriptures" and more, but needs must make sense of them and correctly contextualise, ok?

MickeyC:

I'm just waiting for the onslaught I'm going to receive, 

Ah, ah! Onslaught ke? Are you calling NL' wicked? After having a booming serve rained down on your head and your best shots effortlessly returned, we then relegated you from the main tour to the challenger circuit. No need for any onslaught again 0 !

MickeyC:

Well iron sharpens iron - to quote Proverbs (although I'm sure from your previous comments you wouldn't consider me as iron!!!)

Of course you are iron - of the scrap variety sha 0 ! So sir you have a choice of nicknames. Those being "Wild Card" or "Scrap-Iron Mike".

God bless
TV

;d ;d ;d

TV01:

And I appreciate your humour and demeanour in comprehending that. No offense was intended and I'm glad non was taken. May I unoficially recieve you to the NL religion board. Welcome sir!

So you can't play tennis but fancy yourself at semantics abi? Ok 0!

I am loathe to teach until I am unmistakebly called to - and not by man - but kindly permit me to share my little apprehension of grace with you.

Grace is a teacher and enabler, a tutor, and a transformer. So, far example, one previously hated giving; enter grace. Now such a one does not so much feel obliged or constrained to give - morally, legally or otherwise - it becomes his very nature. One does not do what comes naturally out of obligation. Or do you feel obliged to continuously net those weak first serves? No it's 'cos of your puny arm muscles, its your nature !

Not contradicting yourself in this instance, confusing yourself would be more apt here, We are contrasting giving vs. tithing, grace vs law, obligation vs. freewill. Not having established a position there, you then proceeded to needlessly throw in salvation, works, justification and a whole bunch of stuff. More thought, less haste. Shot selection again!

Indeed you "quoted two scriptures" and more, but needs must make sense of them and correctly contextualise, ok?

Ah, ah! Onslaught ke? Are you calling NL' wicked? After having a booming serve rained down on your head and your best shots effortlessly returned, we then relegated you from the main tour to the challenger circuit. No need for any onslaught again 0 !

Of course you are iron - of the scrap variety sha 0 ! So sir you have a choice of nicknames. Those being "Wild Card" or "Scrap-Iron Mike".

God bless
TV

This TV01 guy self . . . prospective discussants beware oh! bring your titanium, not plastic rackets and AK-47 48s not water pistols. You have been warned .

^^ Why not throw in some M16s, Abrams Tanks, Apache helicopters, B32 bombers, etc,

These guys are still at it under one "assumed name" or another but they have antiquated "weapons", as Pastor AIO correctly pointed out, Malachi is not serving them as it use to on NL now they've got to find new "Prosperity" verses,

We need to keep them all in our prayers!

Shalom.

Jessie & KunOsh, my two - some would say only - bestest friends on NL. Salute 0!

ogajim:

These guys are still at it under one "assumed name" or another

Chei, I am sooooo naive & trusting, it didn't for once cross my mind that our new buddy MickeyC might be an extant NL'er. And there I was extending brotherly loff and a hearty welcome to NL, when he prolly get plot for here !

Oya Bro' MickeyC, confess, who you be? No matter sha, next time we engage its gloves off. So "Scrap Iron" it is then. _{My discernment is screaming "scroll-searcher" Hmmmmm.}

TV

TV01 twas really good to read from you again after a long while, trust you are doing great.

KunleOshob:

TV01 twas really good to read from you again after a long while, trust you are doing great.

I'm well 0 mbrofam, how far?  I keep close check on your indefatigable and relentless MOGmyth slaying work. You are performing valiantly, but lemme know if you need me to unsheath my sword and discomfort any errant IRD's or MOGW' !
_{Thats "Institutionalised Religion/ous Drones" & "MOG Worshippers" for those that don't know. Oh sorry, didn't know you meant that, it means "my brother from another mother". Nice huh? Like it? I coined it myself}

No plans for Naija at the moment - even the thought sef just wearies me - but I'm sure ther'll be reason in the not too distant future. If you are ever at my end, make you holla 0!

TV

Hehe, tithephobics are having a jolly time and sharing testimonies! Jesus is Lord sha.

TV01 my old china plate (well I suppose relatively new china plate), in response to "Not contradicting yourself in this instance, confusing yourself would be more apt here, We are contrasting giving vs. tithing, grace vs law, obligation vs. freewill. Not having established a position there, you then proceeded to needlessly throw in salvation, works, justification and a whole bunch of stuff. More thought, less haste. Shot selection again!"

I always understood grace vs law as the the argument of the basis of salvation, are we justified by our works or Christ's works. So how is that throwing anything else into the melting pot?!?!?! I was simply trying to show from James that the NT position is we are saved purely by the grace of God through faith (which is a gift), but that faith will "have legs" and turn into action. One of those actions will be sacrificially giving to God's work through time, effort and financially. Now surely you understand the gist of what I am trying to say and would agree? Let me please stress I don't think those actions/works save us but is how we want to respond due to having our unresponsive hearts of stone replaced with hearts of flesh. (Couldn't resist throwing another thing in there!!!)

I appreciate the nickname!

Warmest, kindest regards,

Scrappy.

This thread has been on for almost three years now---2008,I just came across it.Thanks Kunle Oshobu for exposing the truth.I have already printed your earliest post and gave it to my GM who really want to know the truth about this doctrine.The truth about tithing has been exposed and is laid bare for anybody to see.Some may keep arguing the truth because the truth is not in them in the first place.So even if they see white they will still like to call it black.I love the testimony of seguno2 in the earliest page of this thread of giving to Gideons and still get blessed.This is the most researched and unbiased expose on the topic of tithe i have ever read.Than you Kunle Oshobu.God bless you for exposing the truth.

FEMARY:

This thread has been on for almost three years now---2008,I just came across it.Thanks Kunle Oshobu for exposing the truth.I have already printed your earliest post and gave it to my GM who really want to know the truth about this doctrine.The truth about tithing has been exposed and is laid bare for anybody to see.Some may keep arguing the truth because the truth is not in them in the first place.So even if they see white they will still like to call it black.I love the testimony of seguno2 in the earliest page of this thread of giving to Gideons and still get blessed.This is the most researched and unbiased expose on the topic of tithe i have ever read.Than you Kunle Oshobu.God bless you for exposing the truth.

My pleasure, thanx for the compliments!

@kunleosho

Keep up the good work, your work on tithing made me to have a rethink on the entire issue, I must confess, after reading your post over 2 years ago, I personally embarked on my own research to confirm it. Keep on spreading the good word especially in africa, they really need it because the average african is very spiritual and as such not as open minded as other people.