Hmmm...'Nigerian Association of Above 10k Web Developers' sounds good to me. ...I knew 2013 would be a no cheap year...

akay_47: Hmmm...'Nigerian Association of Above 10k Web Developers' sounds good to me. ...I knew 2013 would be a no cheap year...

Akin, if I catch U!!!I'ma call U soon bro

Already having a good feeling about 2013....way to go fellow webmasters.


- Safe

akay_47: Hmmm...'Nigerian Association of Above 10k Web Developers' sounds good to me. ...I knew 2013 would be a no cheap year...

Please note that web designers are different from web developers, no web developer will take a job for 10K sir.

As far as i am concern anybody can charge what ever fees he likes and the ideal of setting up an association is a primitive culture.

for me i have never design any website for less than 50k and i do not blame anyone that charges 5,000 naira.

my time is more precious and i have other things i can do with my time than charging 20k for a website.

i just want to advise all web developers to get busy on other things, provide problem solving solutions that other developer will need.

mj:
Please note that web designers are different from web developers, no web developer will take a job for 10K sir.

Yea, i know, but makes no difference really in this country and this context. And for ur info 'Sir', I've met a Web developer that charged less than 10k.

akay_47:
Yea, i know, but makes no difference really in this country and this context. And for ur info 'Sir', I've met a Web developer that charged less than 10k.

ROFLMAO
We've moved from N20k to N12,500 then to N10k, now less than N10k and there was even a rumor of guys doing it free!!!

akay_47:
Yea, i know, but makes no difference really in this country and this context. And for ur info 'Sir', I've met a Web developer that charged less than 10k.

A web developer is a programmer who
specializes in, or is specifically engaged in, the
development of World Wide Web applications,
or distributed network applications that are run
over HTTP from a web server to a web browser.
So u mean as a web developer, I'll develop a school portal, social network system, chat system, hospital management system, cargo system, job recruitment system, forum, online radio, online tv, sms portal, online shopping system, etc, I'll then collect less than 10K ? That person must be insane, I'm sorry to say.

To be frank, this is a real concern of note for all of us. And the fact is that the so called 'quacks' are getting the jobs, which they mess up at the end, and leaving us to clear their mess after getting frustrated.

I support the move for the ban or something worse could happen to Web world as a profession if we fail to look into the menace. I love web, sleep web, eat web and think web, so therefore I won't let a thing mess up a career I cherish a lot all in the name of cheap.

This thread actually gave me courage to charge a client 70k for a 10 page site. Got the job Sunday and as I speak, the website has gone live. I must say I'm not a pro web designer though, just one of those things I learnt for learning sake and the fact I'm a graphic artist. I don't even know how to use dreamweaver, yeah I use frontpage.

agitator:

Your points are typically Nigerian way of reasoning.

let be break down your useless post


Microsoft is note canvasing for all the IT Companies to charge minimum for their software. they do their thing and charge, if you like purchase if your don't like leave.


Last time i know there is no fixed charge for lawyers, accountants, architects, surgeons. but in terms of wages there is an industry standard. The amount being charged by a certain lawyer to appear in court on your behalf varies with lawyers.


People in some professions are regarded in high esteem because believe it is not easy to scale all the requirements

Is the private schools asking/coercing other private schools to charge high fees?


The western world you mentioned pays Nigerians paid less than the same Indians you claim they see as cheap. Additionally Indians are supervisors/asst. managers over their Nigerian counterparts right here in Nigeria.



Are you comparing Iphones, ipads, blackberry and laptops to web design? Let forget about that and assume it's comparable, don't other phones exist or is iphone(apple) asking all smart phone manufacturers to sell at a certain minimum price?

Which ever school you attended, better go and ask for a refund.

Its clear that you like most folks on nland respond 'emotionally' in knee-jerk manners to post.
If you dont have the capacity to follow an intellectual argument then dont respond.

agitator:

Your points are typically Nigerian way of reasoning.

The typical way of nigerian reasoning is what spurned this thread in the first place.
Can you think? i dont talk or respond to fools who get 'heated' up during an argument
and your first line of response shows you'r that type.
can your really 'think'.
Your response out tangential and out of point not to mention insultive.


let be break down your useless post

agitator:
Microsoft is note canvasing for all the IT Companies to charge minimum for their software. they do their thing and charge, if you like purchase if your don't like leave.

I brought up the microsoft analogy to underscore the point that
,should i be repeating myself again?! , microsoft, adobe, blackberry ,google
charge HIGH !!
Wallmart CHARGES HIGH , COCA COLA charges HIGH -
EVERY ORGANIZED COMPANY THAT IS NOT FOR PROFIT CHARGES HIGH that's how they
make their profit it only appears low because they sell to MILLIONS.
this web designers charging 20k for a job that can take from a a week to a month
are undercutting themselves.

they can learn from SUCCESSFUL companies and adjust their strategy.
that's what the microsoft analogy underscores.

how many days in a year are they?
say you work your self off and charge 20k for 3 days of work that amounts to how
nuch. 20k* (circa) 100 = 2M! - ideally.
but how many make up to this amount at this rate!
since sb charging 20k will never work at this rate without endangering his health
then it means they give off their most useful asset ,time , for very poor returns
< standard wage.

agitator:
Last time i know there is no fixed charge for lawyers, accountants, architects, surgeons. but in terms of wages there is an industry standard. The amount being charged by a certain lawyer to appear in court on your behalf varies with lawyers.

its pathetic you could quote me out of context - .
the quote you quoted even shows how blind you can be.
I talked of beggarly wages . the 'fix' word that got you skidding of track
referred to price fixing if you read the sentence i made you'll see
that i made a mistake, it should have been 'they fix' not 'the fix'.

Sure there's not fixed price for 'lawyers, accountants' etc '
but there's a range.
there is a price range that reflects artisanry and another price range for professional
services.
the price the poster complains about is dragging the entire web design image in
the social eye into artisanry status which should nt be.
one way to fix this is to boost the price.
a plumber, electrician, gardener, barber, hair dresser - professions that require brawns
and less brains can charge 10 - 20k and get a job.
But point any profession that requires intellect and education that charges this amount!!
Any intellectual profession charging such undignified amount will lose its respect
and web designing is already doing so.
people say it not 'only a website' you dont tell a lawyer accountant architect
is not only a court case, it not only a financial statement , it not only a draft.

agitator:
People in some professions are regarded in high esteem because believe it is not easy to scale all the requirements
[/guote]
what really dyu mean by this vague statement
did you say to discredit what i said earlier - or don't you see around you!
part of the prestige sorrounding highly perceived professions has to do with
the price charged per services.
with high prices the best are motivated to enter the profession
with low demeaning prices the best exit leaving the mediocres to rule the pond.
And the bright ones in the field bestow the field its glory.
think of what john grisham has done to the legal profession through his works
think of what the movie street was motivated by the financial sector
and read the reviews on wikipedia - many people were motivated to
become financial analysts, because of that film.
think of the counter effect shabby pricing will have on the web design profession
in nigeria with this beggarly crumby prices.

By the time a web developer is done with the design of 10 websites,
technically his machine should be obsolete thru depreciation because
his is using his machine , his house rent should be paid for,
he should earn enough to cover medical expenses and pay for a chiropractor,
now add those costs together and divide by ten!
can 20k * 10 meet the bill?
in world class companies not local sweat shops this is the thinking
employed to determine your salary!
and even then most professionals are underpaid in nigeria.
a good standard salary is like $50k. how much does 20k jobs add up to in a year!!
Man grow up.
its seems you know I.T but lack business or economic knowledge.
this facts i'm giving you are basic stuffs.

[quote author=agitator]
Is the private schools asking/coercing other private schools to charge high fees?

You read and miss the point again!!
I talk of the issue of perception and expectation.
Perception - of the private schools , a service provider in this case much like
a webmaster is a service provider , perceived to be of a particular status , prestigios
status.
and expectation:
parents who enrol their kids in private schools have a minimum expecation
of the school. that the school will deliver quality services.
I never hinted on coercion,
of course , the higher the school fees the higher the image of perception
the school garners which hits the nail right on the head of the point
i and the poster under score - low fees school attract contempt -
and low fees web masters attract contempt.
if the nigerian crop of web designers want to remain contemned then so be it
but if they want to be perceived better - they have to polish their image
which includes the fee charges.

agitator:
The western world you mentioned pays Nigerians paid less than the same Indians you claim they see as cheap. Additionally Indians are supervisors/asst. managers over their Nigerian counterparts right here in Nigeria.
[/guote]

Indians are supervisors assistants in indian run companies - like indomie etc.
the partialism is rampant and wide spread in company of foreign origins.
That does not change the indian perception at all.
read international blogs - A company will declare that it "doesnt outsource any of its
I.T work to india , all development is done on shore "
why so! because india is seen as a destination for cheap labour.
Indians are seen as "humble" i.e they will get abused and insulted and they'll
keep quiet - that's why they are so loved as an offshore destination.
part of this lowly reputation indians have garnered is because they
will do work for almost peanuts.
Also dont forget india has a caste system that inculcated this mentality
into its citizens. they are the servant caste - , the lowly class, the ruler class,
and the priestly caste this kind of caste system is needed in society with
strong patriarchical leanings - what i mean here is a society where people are
controlled by appeal to a ruler figure - much like is alleged in some northern
states in nigeria where the almajiris are loyalist to their perceived 'leader'
figures. so that they the almajiris can be deployed senselessly at will to
engage in riots etc.
such ruler systems like morons who dont think and resist those who seek enlightenment.
most of the posters on this forum refer to india because of the price tag,
They commend the indians and expect their nigerian counterparts to copy them!!


[quote author=agitator]
Are you comparing Iphones, ipads, blackberry and laptops to web design? Let forget about that and assume it's comparable, don't other phones exist or is iphone(apple) asking all smart phone manufacturers to sell at a certain minimum price?
[/guote]

Again, i read you reply and attempt at sarcasm with pity.
is this how well you can follow an argument?
let me recap.
ipads, iphones blackberries and laptops are comparable to web design in the sense
that they are ALL PRODUCTS sold at a discrete price.
web design is intangible but it doesnt matter - an intangible product is a SERVICE
but it is still a product .
now, how many ipads are sold each year!? and what is the sales target for the year?!
they could be 1 million ipads or more sold in a year.
they could be 10 million black berry phones sold in a year in africa alone.
what about world wide? it may run into more.
now a blackberry phone could go for as high as N100k,
N100k * 10 million units = 1 followed by 9 zeros.
so when blackberry is setting price for that 100k phone.
it takes it desired sales target (1 followed by 9 zeros) and divides it by
its estimated sales target (10 million)
supposing they were to sell the phone to only 100 people how much to you think
they'll sell it?
do the maths.
But a 20k web designer ,often has no sales target - he's grovelling and hoping to
take any crumb they throw to him,
in the eventual,he may design 20 sites a year.
20 times 20k is how much! N400k . is N400k , adequate reflection of the quality
of value he's created and imparted in a year!
if so fine. but most of the customers who pay those peanuts expect value worth
10 million or more.
for companies that do their sales projection right-
they can design 1 000 sites a year at 20k and still do well.
they can even design 10 000 sites at N2k if they like and still do well, acheive
their sales target - but fact is -
established companies sell their services with the aim of making GOOD PROFIT.
black berry could make $100M in profit from sell of just phones.

[quote author=agitator]
Which ever school you attended, better go and ask for a refund.

Its apparent at this point that YOU are the one really lacking in education.
use that last advice on yourself.
next time you come to argue a point bring your brains with you
and stop jerking out half back tangential out of context counters.

Its clear that you like most folks on nland respond 'emotionally' in knee-jerk manners to post.
If you dont have the capacity to follow an intellectual argument then dont respond.

agitator:

Your points are typically Nigerian way of reasoning.

The typical way of nigerian reasoning is what spurned this thread in the first place.
Can you think? i dont talk or respond to fools who get 'heated' up during an argument
and your first line of response shows you'r that type.
can your really 'think'.
Your response out tangential and out of point not to mention insultive.


let be break down your useless post

agitator:
Microsoft is note canvasing for all the IT Companies to charge minimum for their software. they do their thing and charge, if you like purchase if your don't like leave.

I brought up the microsoft analogy to underscore the point that
,should i be repeating myself again?! , microsoft, adobe, blackberry ,google
charge HIGH !!
Wallmart CHARGES HIGH , COCA COLA charges HIGH -
EVERY ORGANIZED COMPANY THAT IS NOT FOR PROFIT CHARGES HIGH that's how they
make their profit it only appears low because they sell to MILLIONS.
this web designers charging 20k for a job that can take from a a week to a month
are undercutting themselves.

they can learn from SUCCESSFUL companies and adjust their strategy.
that's what the microsoft analogy underscores.

how many days in a year are they?
say you work your self off and charge 20k for 3 days of work that amounts to how
nuch?. 20k* (circa) 100 = 2M! - ideally.
but how many make up to this amount at this rate!
since somebody charging 20k will never work at this rate without endangering his health
then it means they give off their most useful asset ,time , for very poor returns
< standard wage.

agitator:
Last time i know there is no fixed charge for lawyers, accountants, architects, surgeons. but in terms of wages there is an industry standard. The amount being charged by a certain lawyer to appear in court on your behalf varies with lawyers.

its pathetic you could quote me out of context - .
the quote you quoted even shows how blind you can be.
I talked of beggarly wages . the 'fix' word that got you skidding of track
referred to price fixing if you read the sentence i made you'll see
that i made a mistake, it should have been 'they fix' not 'the fix'.

Sure there's not fixed price for 'lawyers, accountants' etc '
but there's a range.
there is a price range that reflects artisanry and another price range for professional
services.
the price the poster complains about is dragging the entire web design image in
the social eye into artisanry status which should nt be.
one way to fix this is to boost the price.
a plumber, electrician, gardener, barber, hair dresser - professions that require brawns
and less brains can charge 10 - 20k and get a job.
But point any profession that requires intellect and education that charges this amount!!
Any intellectual profession charging such undignified amount will lose its respect
and web designing is already doing so.
people say it not 'only a website' you dont tell a lawyer accountant architect
is not only a court case, it not only a financial statement , it not only a draft.

agitator:
People in some professions are regarded in high esteem because believe it is not easy to scale all the requirements

what really dyu mean by this vague statement
did you say to discredit what i said earlier - or don't you see around you!
part of the prestige sorrounding highly perceived professions has to do with
the price charged per services.
with high prices the best are motivated to enter the profession
with low demeaning prices the best exit leaving the mediocres to rule the pond.
And the bright ones in the field bestow the field its glory.
think of what john grisham has done to the legal profession through his works
think of what the movie street was motivated by the financial sector
and read the reviews on wikipedia - many people were motivated to
become financial analysts, because of that film.
think of the counter effect shabby pricing will have on the web design profession
in nigeria with this beggarly crumby prices.

By the time a web developer is done with the design of 10 websites,
technically his machine should be obsolete thru depreciation because
his is using his machine , his house rent should be paid for,
he should earn enough to cover medical expenses and pay for a chiropractor,
now add those costs together and divide by ten!
can 20k * 10 meet the bill?
in world class companies not local sweat shops this is the thinking
employed to determine your salary!
and even then most professionals are underpaid in nigeria.
a good standard salary is like $50k. how much does 20k jobs add up to in a year!!
Man grow up.
its seems you know I.T but lack business or economic knowledge.
this facts i'm giving you are basic stuffs.

agitator:
Is the private schools asking/coercing other private schools to charge high fees?

You read and miss the point again!!
I talk of the issue of perception and expectation.
Perception - of the private schools , a service provider in this case much like
a webmaster is a service provider , perceived to be of a particular status , prestigios
status.
and expectation:
parents who enrol their kids in private schools have a minimum expecation
of the school. that the school will deliver quality services.
I never hinted on coercion,
of course , the higher the school fees the higher the image of perception
the school garners which hits the nail right on the head of the point
i and the poster under score - low fees school attract contempt -
and low fees web masters attract contempt.
if the nigerian crop of web designers want to remain contemned then so be it
but if they want to be perceived better - they have to polish their image
which includes the fee charges.

agitator:
The western world you mentioned pays Nigerians paid less than the same Indians you claim they see as cheap. Additionally Indians are supervisors/asst. managers over their Nigerian counterparts right here in Nigeria.

Indians are supervisors assistants in indian run companies - like indomie etc.
the partialism is rampant and wide spread in company of foreign origins.
That does not change the indian perception at all.
read international blogs - A company will declare that it "doesnt outsource any of its
I.T work to india , all development is done on shore "
why so! because india is seen as a destination for cheap labour.
Indians are seen as "humble" i.e they will get abused and insulted and they'll
keep quiet - that's why they are so loved as an offshore destination.
part of this lowly reputation indians have garnered is because they
will do work for almost peanuts.
Also dont forget india has a caste system that inculcated this mentality
into its citizens. they are the servant caste - , the lowly class, the ruler class,
and the priestly caste this kind of caste system is needed in society with
strong patriarchical leanings - what i mean here is a society where people are
controlled by appeal to a ruler figure - much like is alleged in some northern
states in nigeria where the almajiris are loyalist to their perceived 'leader'
figures. so that they the almajiris can be deployed senselessly at will to
engage in riots etc.
such ruler systems like morons who dont think and resist those who seek enlightenment.
most of the posters on this forum refer to india because of the price tag,
They commend the indians and expect their nigerian counterparts to copy them!!

agitator:
Are you comparing Iphones, ipads, blackberry and laptops to web design? Let forget about that and assume it's comparable, don't other phones exist or is iphone(apple) asking all smart phone manufacturers to sell at a certain minimum price?

Again, i read you reply and attempt at sarcasm with pity.
is this how well you can follow an argument?
let me recap.
ipads, iphones blackberries and laptops are comparable to web design in the sense
that they are ALL PRODUCTS sold at a discrete price.
web design is intangible but it doesnt matter - an intangible product is a SERVICE
but it is still a product .
now, how many ipads are sold each year!? and what is the sales target for the year?!
they could be 1 million ipads or more sold in a year.
they could be 10 million black berry phones sold in a year in africa alone.
what about world wide? it may run into more.
now a blackberry phone could go for as high as N100k,
N100k * 10 million units = 1 followed by 9 zeros.
so when blackberry is setting price for that 100k phone.
it takes it desired sales target (1 followed by 9 zeros) and divides it by
its estimated sales target (10 million)
supposing they were to sell the phone to only 100 people how much to you think
they'll sell it?
do the maths.
But a 20k web designer ,often has no sales target - he's grovelling and hoping to
take any crumb they throw to him,
in the eventual,he may design 20 sites a year.
20 times 20k is how much! N400k . is N400k , adequate reflection of the quality
of value he's created and imparted in a year!
if so fine. but most of the customers who pay those peanuts expect value worth
10 million or more.
for companies that do their sales projection right-
they can design 1 000 sites a year at 20k and still do well.
they can even design 10 000 sites at N2k if they like and still do well, acheive
their sales target - but fact is -
established companies sell their services with the aim of making GOOD PROFIT.
black berry could make $100M in profit from sell of just phones.

agitator:
Which ever school you attended, better go and ask for a refund.

Its apparent at this point that YOU are the one really lacking in education.
use that last advice on yourself.
next time you come to argue a point bring your brains with you
and stop jerking out half back tangential out of context counters.

nasty quote job!! obviously. first time of trying out nairaland 'quote'
!! oh well!

some corrections:
the movie 'wall street'
COMPANIES NOT FOR CHARITY CHARGE HIGH..

There is a price range that reflects artisanry and another price range for professional
services.
the price the poster complains about is dragging the entire web design image in
the social eye into artisanry status which should nt be.
one way to fix this is to boost the price.
a plumber, electrician, gardener, barber, hair dresser - professions that require brawns
and less brains can charge 10 - 20k and get a job.
But point any profession that requires intellect and education that charges this amount!!
Any intellectual profession charging such undignified amount will lose its respect
and web designing is already doing so.
people say is it not 'only a website' you dont tell a lawyer accountant architect
is not only a court case, it not only a financial statement , it not only a draft.

@Kambo, you raised some very valid points.

At the part I highlighted in red, thats the problem right there. Most of those people didnt spend time and resources in training as web designers hence the attitude.

And the part I highlighted in brown, apt observation very apt.

Listen guys , ur intellectual arrogance is misplaced.(I am refering to 2 posters above) You nigerians and ur glorification of degrees/paper qualification, you think you need less brains to run a horticulture /plumbing business than to write html..Jesus hold me oo!! In Sweden/Norway there is a fantastic accounting software called Visma that completly erases the need for an accountant if you run a small business.. I mean COMPLETLY, it does everything including everything you need to fill in ur tax form at the end of the year ..Lets call it the wordpress of accounting..

So in ur minds accountants should get together and ban progress because what they made seem so hard has been made soo easy and accesible to everyone? No you adapt or go out of business and many have or go after big companies and what not. I am still not convinced of the need to ban anything ..its progress ,some people pay 10k and get a great site ,some people pay 70k and get rubbish , price does not gaurantee quality! or does it?

funky medina:
So in ur minds accountants should get together and ban progress because what they made seem so hard has been made soo easy and accesible to everyone? No you adapt or go out of business and many have or go after big companies and what not. I am still not convinced of the need to ban anything ..its progress ,some people pay 10k and get a great site ,some people pay 70k and get rubbish , price does not gaurantee quality! or does it?

Do accountants in Sweden charge the equivalent of N12.5K or even N20K for accounting jobs now that such a software exists?

funky medina: Listen guys , ur intellectual arrogance is misplaced.(I am refering to 2 posters above) You nigerians and ur glorification of degrees/paper qualification, you think you need less brains to run a horticulture /plumbing business than to write html..Jesus hold me oo!! In Sweden/Norway there is a fantastic accounting software called Visma that completly erases the need for an accountant if you run a small business.. I mean COMPLETLY, it does everything including everything you need to fill in ur tax form at the end of the year ..Lets call it the wordpress of accounting..

So in ur minds accountants should get together and ban progress because what they made seem so hard has been made soo easy and accesible to everyone? No you adapt or go out of business and many have or go after big companies and what not. I am still not convinced of the need to ban anything ..its progress ,some people pay 10k and get a great site ,some people pay 70k and get rubbish , price does not gaurantee quality! or does it?

mtcheww u funny ooo .. make d software operate itself na abi dem go employ robot 2 come de input figures.nonsense

funky medina: Listen guys , ur intellectual arrogance is misplaced.(I am refering to 2 posters above) You nigerians and ur glorification of degrees/paper qualification, you think you need less brains to run a horticulture /plumbing business than to write html..Jesus hold me oo!! In Sweden/Norway there is a fantastic accounting software called Visma that completly erases the need for an accountant if you run a small business.. I mean COMPLETLY, it does everything including everything you need to fill in ur tax form at the end of the year ..Lets call it the wordpress of accounting..

Is it only in getting "paper degrees" that people spend time and resources in training?

Get your thoughts together and stop running ahead of yourself all the time.

brightk:

mtcheww u funny ooo .. make d software operate itself na abi dem go employ robot 2 come de input figures.nonsense

the software is so simple im my opinion at even YOU can run it for ur business so there is no need for an accountant .. I am sure i said that before. abi how do u want me to explain it again . I cant help your lack of undertsanding such a simple statement or point.

fewj:

Do accountants in Sweden charge the equivalent of N12.5K or even N20K for accounting jobs now that such a software exists?

I am glad u asked this question! there are people who know the software exist ,but still scared of using PCs for more than email (this is where the sharp guys come in) ..they buy the software and rather than pay an accounting firm an arm and leg get a bookeeeper or whomever to fill in all thier business details and pay what you can say is 10k-12 for what used to cost 10times more. They do it at thier own risk but when it has worked for you for years and you have had no tax problems then what is the argument for paying an arm and a leg for a "proffesional"

If you know mr A has built and can build you a cheap site that meets ur need , why pay mr B 100k for the same thing. Technology has made web design more assesible, gone are they days coders held a monopoly , Adapt !! When I started in IT, DOS and Concurrent dOS armed with a 1.4MB diskett was the order of the day, programmers were god, sorry to burst ur bubble , i can build a web app today with buzztouch so not even all areas of development are free from us non-programming butadvanced IT people
Summary: IT is moving fast stop whinning and make urslf more relevant

funky medina:
I am glad u asked this question! there are people who know the software exist ,but still scared of using PCs for more than email (this is where the sharp guys come in) ..they buy the software and rather than pay an accounting firm an arm and leg get a bookeeeper or whomever to fill in all thier business details and pay what you can say is 10k-12 for what used to cost 10times more. They do it at thier own risk but when it has worked for you for years and you have had no tax problems then what is the argument for paying an arm and a leg for a "proffesional"

u are now telling me that someone dat went to study accounting, even went out professional is irrelevant just becos a software exists..hmm na wa ooo. there are some courses u cant take for granted oooo my guy...

I need developer

soloqy:

Is it only in getting "paper degrees" that people spend time and resources in training?

Get your thoughts together and stop running ahead of yourself all the time.

In many fields if not most is there any better training than an apprentiships? On the job, real life experience if we must be honest. What is in web design or programming that requires a four year or 5 year education at university..all the 11-17 year olds hacking agencies that degree holders many with phd sef secured nko? Did Bill Gates, Steve job and the other Steve even bother to continue with thire paper degree? the paper is not the basis for sucess . its glorified in nigeria because of our bad environment nothing more but thats another discussion for another thread.

brightk:

u are now telling me that someone dat went to study accounting, even went out professional is irrelevant just becos a software exists..hmm na wa ooo. there are some courses u cant take for granted oooo my guy...

I am telling you in a country with standard tax laws and processes that softwares exist that have made accountants irrelevant for SMALL BUSINESSES, quote me anywhere. I am a living witness

funky medina:
I am telling you in a country with standard tax laws and processes that softwares exist that have made accountants irrelevant for SMALL BUSINESSES, quote me anywhere. I am a living witness

shey u b programmer abeg make all d necessary software wen go make human beings irrelevant in all fields.. i de wait for u.. softwares are made 2 make tins easier not 2 make piple jobless. my guy there has 2 be a sort of formal/informal education whether u like it or not

funky medina:

In many fields if not most is there any better training than an apprentiships? On the job, real life experience if we must be honest. What is in web design or programming that requires a four year or 5 year education at university..all the 11-17 year olds hacking agencies that degree holders many with phd sef secured nko? Did Bill Gates, Steve job and the other Steve even bother to continue with thire paper degree? the paper is not the basis for sucess . its glorified in nigeria because of our bad environment nothing more but thats another discussion for another thread.

Did you read my post?

@funky media your funny. You are seriously shooting yourself in the foot here. The software ur talking about is it free? If so then the purpose wasnt for profit. If it is not free then answer my next question- if the company employs developers how do they pay per annum? How many copies of the software is sold per year and at what price? Is the company a quoted company? Do they face competition? How will they survive massive market share attacks from predators if they dont have enough cash? FYI softgiants like microsoft have been able to survive and expand their product line because they charge well. They billions of dollars in cash that they can create a search engine to rival google. They pay their developers up to 500k usd and they attract the best talent , would b more productive with 5k dollars /year or 50k dollars? Life is not survival but thriving . With 45k usd excess that 10k developer can do much much more. All i'm saying charge well like a professional not like a beggar. On the accounting aspect they have been super software like quicken, quickbooks does it reduce the number of cpas no!! because that software of yours only automates the drudgery of the profession. There's more to accounting than preparing automatable reports. Accountants will have to find other ways to make money its a fact of life but ur view of accounting is poor, do you there is a philosophical branch in accounting do you know there is active accounting research that accounting isnt a static field? Did the electronic calculator make mathematics obsolete ? It only put abacus makers out of business! Besides as you urself mention the small business owners run from the human accountants because of the fees at least the human accountants are charging fees that are befitting not beggarly.

kambo: @funky media your funny. You are seriously shooting yourself in the foot here. The software ur talking about is it free? If so then the purpose wasnt for profit. If it is not free then answer my next question- if the company employs developers how do they pay per annum? How many copies of the software is sold per year and at what price? Is the company a quoted company? Do they face competition? How will they survive massive market share attacks from predators if they dont have enough cash? FYI softgiants like microsoft have been able to survive and expand their product line because they charge well. They billions of dollars in cash that they can create a search engine to rival google. They pay their developers up to 500k usd and they attract the best talent , would b more productive with 5k dollars /year or 50k dollars? Life is not survival but thriving . With 45k usd excess that 10k developer can do much much more. All i'm saying charge well like a professional not like a beggar. On the accounting aspect they have been super software like quicken, quickbooks does it reduce the number of cpas no!! because that software of yours only automates the drudgery of the profession. There's more to accounting than preparing automatable reports. Accountants will have to find other ways to make money its a fact of life but ur view of accounting is poor, do you there is a philosophical branch in accounting do you know there is active accounting research that accounting isnt a static field? Did the electronic calculator make mathematics obsolete ? It only put abacus makers out of business! Besides as you urself mention the small business owners run from the human accountants because of the fees at least the human accountants are charging fees that are befitting not beggarly.

GBAM CAPITAL FULL STOP...LOL

kambo: @funky media your funny. You are seriously shooting yourself in the foot here. The software ur talking about is it free? If so then the purpose wasnt for profit. If it is not free then answer my next question- if the company employs developers how do they pay per annum? How many copies of the software is sold per year and at what price? Is the company a quoted company? Do they face competition? How will they survive massive market share attacks from predators if they dont have enough cash? FYI softgiants like microsoft have been able to survive and expand their product line because they charge well. They billions of dollars in cash that they can create a search engine to rival google. They pay their developers up to 500k usd and they attract the best talent , would b more productive with 5k dollars /year or 50k dollars? Life is not survival but thriving . With 45k usd excess that 10k developer can do much much more. All i'm saying charge well like a professional not like a beggar. On the accounting aspect they have been super software like quicken, quickbooks does it reduce the number of cpas no!! because that software of yours only automates the drudgery of the profession. There's more to accounting than preparing automatable reports. Accountants will have to find other ways to make money its a fact of life but ur view of accounting is poor, do you there is a philosophical branch in accounting do you know there is active accounting research that accounting isnt a static field? Did the electronic calculator make mathematics obsolete ? It only put abacus makers out of business! Besides as you urself mention the small business owners run from the human accountants because of the fees at least the human accountants are charging fees that are befitting not beggarly.

Everyone just take a deep breadth lets not get carried away. What is this thread about? op is complainning the price of web design has gone down with people charging minimal fees contrary to what they will like to charge and wants to organise small union to control the price of webdesign ..I say fa fa faa foul and my reason is that technology has come into web design in such a way that the basic sites that meets the needs of most avaerage people/small to midium businesses can be done for less than 49k because its no longer difficult to create a site. If I choose to do it for 30k how can you ban me? Its called competition, market how ur different and charge what u want.

I brought in the accounting software as an example of how technology can change a proffession to the point it can literally make it redundant in some aspects ..pray tell me what a small business needs with the philosophical aspect of accounting ur talking about ?? Anyway , lets agree to disagree !! Create ur union , ban urselves ..rant from now till thy kingdom come, you cant stop progress and u cant ban competition, you cant take away choice from people..Thats all I am saying. By the way happy New year all.
Also Visma has only a purchase price no monthly fees ..and its a fantastic not too expensive invetment..google the price if u wanna know more. QED