DrummaBoy:

Lessons that can be gleaned from the above statement:

1. It was a parable. It probably never happened.

2. Even if it happened, that verse does not say that "all that I possess" is money.

3. Even if the Pharisee tithed money, as part of "all that I possess", it easy to see that the Pharisees themselves have taken the tithes to the same crass level of obscenity modern preachers have, in turning the tithe, which were agricultural products, to money.

4. If indeed the pharisee paid tithes on the money he gained, it would mean that the only example of anyone who tithed in the whole of the New Testament is not Christ, his apostles or their followers, but a pharisee. A "worthy" example you will agree.

5. If Jesus mentioned tithes twice, once in rebuking the pharisee and the other in a parable, we see how much "gravity" the Master places on tithing; compare this with the fire and brimstone attitude of modern day preachers.

also, if the Pharisee tithed money, who did He tithe it to? The Levites (the only Temple staff that were authorized to receive tithes ) were not authorized to receive money as tithes... Only crops and livestock. If they did tithe money, it must have been to unauthorized persons.

OLAADEGBU:

How much gravity do you place on the words "Born again"? After all, Jesus only mentioned it once?

jesus mentioned it twice. Peter mentioned it once

OLAADEGBU:

How much gravity do you place on the words "Born again"? After all, Jesus only mentioned it once?

And you are a Pastor ? smh

Do you mind if I ask what you are a Pastor of , because you certainly do not reflect the way of Christ.

frosbel:

And you are a Pastor ? smh

Do you mind if I ask what you are a Pastor of , because you certainly do not reflect the way of Christ.

As far as I am concerned, he is a filthy rogue and NOT a pastor serving Christ.

Mark Miwerds:

jesus mentioned it twice. Peter mentioned it once

If Jesus only mentioned it twice at one occasion to one person what gravity do you place on it?

frosbel:

And you are a Pastor ? smh

Do you mind if I ask what you are a Pastor of , because you certainly do not reflect the way of Christ.

I am not a pastor that title goes to PastorKun who is your spiritual adviser.

OLAADEGBU:

How much gravity do you place on the words "Born again"? After all, Jesus only mentioned it once?

You actually need help. A lot of it I tell you. Is born again the only nomenclature associated with the new birth?

See the frequency of mention for other terms associated with the new birth

Repent or repentance mentioned 28 times In the gospels and 32 times in the remainder of the new testament by Jesus, John the baptist, apostles.

Salvation mentioned 6 times in the gospels and 37 times in the remainder of the new testament by Jesus, apostles.

Redemption mentioned 11 times in the new testament.

I didn't check for words like 'saved', 'redeem' etc

Now can you give us just one synonym that means 'tithe' so we can verify how much importance Christ attaches to this your cash cow?

How come Christ or the apostles simply refused to be associated with this 'all important' tithe?

Candour:

You actually need help. A lot of it I tell you. Is born again the only nomenclature associated with the new birth?

See the frequency of mention for other terms associated with the new birth

Repent or repentance mentioned 28 times In the gospels and 32 times in the remainder of the new testament by Jesus, John the baptist, apostles.

Salvation mentioned 6 times in the gospels and 37 times in the remainder of the new testament by Jesus, apostles.

Redemption mentioned 11 times in the new testament.

I didn't check for words like 'saved', 'redeem' etc

Now can you give us just one synonym that means 'tithe' so we can verify how much importance Christ attaches to this your cash cow?

How come Christ or the apostles simply refused to be associated with this 'all important' tithe?

Strawman's fallacy.

OLAADEGBU:

Strawman's fallacy.

Is that all you have to say? Did you suddenly run out of high sounding English words?

Why did you bring up 'born again' to compare with 'tithe' if you didn't intend employing a straw man?

Candour:

Is that all you have to say? Did you suddenly run out of high sounding English words?

Why did you bring up 'born again' to compare with 'tithe' if you didn't intend employing a straw man?

When I asked for the phrase "Born again" I did not intend that you should go on a rabbit trail listing all the "nomenclature associated with the new birth" I wonder how many of you passed your JAMB exams if you passed at all.

OLAADEGBU:

If Jesus only mentioned it twice at one occasion to one person what gravity do you place on it?

jesus said, " Ye must ne born again." But what you may not realize, is Jesus spoke in the plural when He said "Ye". He did not mean only Nicodemus needed to be born again. He meant all mankind.

As I said, the more you post the more you reveal your inability to understand Scripture

OLAADEGBU:

When I asked for the phrase "Born again" I did not intend that you should go on a rabbit trail listing all the "nomenclature associated with the new birth" I wonder how many of you passed your JAMB exams if you passed at all.

We agree; we no pass JAMB

Oya, give us one nomenclature associated with tithe found in the New Testament or even the whole of the bible.

With your penchant for Patrick Obiagbon English words you will not find that a difficult assignment.

OLAADEGBU:

When I asked for the phrase "Born again" I did not intend that you should go on a rabbit trail listing all the "nomenclature associated with the new birth" I wonder how many of you passed your JAMB exams if you passed at all.

The joke is on you friend.

So you didnt intend i search it out and punch holes in your ballon of deceit because you only intended it as a sleight of hand right? You knew it couldn't hold up but rather than admit you overreached yourself, you dug further into the mire of deceit to conflate the issue as you normally do abi?

Try imbibe some honesty. You don't do your image any favours with your many sided somersaults on this thread.

By the way, you're over 20 years behind on the JAMB jibe. Pls try another line.

Mark Miwerds: jesus said, " Ye must ne born again." But what you may not realize, is Jesus spoke in the plural when He said "Ye". He did not mean only Nicodemus needed to be born again. He meant all mankind.

As I said, the more you post the more you reveal your inability to understand Scripture

What is this man saying again. i have heard so much rubbish all in the antitithe defence. Was it "Ya" that Jesus used in Matthew 23:23 abi which kain pick and choose eisegesis bi this one?

Image123:

What is this man saying again. i have heard so much rubbish all in the antitithe defence. Was it "Ya" that Jesus used in Matthew 23:23 abi which kain pick and choose eisegesis bi this one?

Unlike the deceitful monetary tithe advocates, I am not picking and choosing at all. 'Ye' in Matthew 23:23 is also plural. But in Matthew 23:23, Jesus clearly identifies who He is referring to... the scribes and Pharisees.

Mark Miwerds: Unlike the deceitful monetary tithe advocates, I am not picking and choosing at all. 'Ye' in Matthew 23:23 is also plural. But in Matthew 23:23, Jesus clearly identifies who He is referring to... the scribes and Pharisees.

hahahahaha, no comments. i have more important things to attend to.

Image123:

hahahahaha, no comments. i have more important things to attend to.

I understand. Plotting extortion from the gullible does take careful planning.

Mark Miwerds: I understand. Plotting extortion from the gullible does take careful planning.

Then Paul must be a good extortioner by saying "If we have sown spiritual seed among you,is it too much if we reap a MATERIAL HARVEST FROM YOU?" 1cor 9:11

You have to be careful the way you delve into extremes just because you do not support tithing. Giving is the only way to know you have conquered greed.And tithing is actually a form of giving.

Bidam: Then Paul must be a good extortioner by saying "If we have sown spiritual seed among you,is it too much if we reap a MATERIAL HARVEST FROM YOU?" 1cor 9:11

You have to be careful the way you delve into extremes just because you do not support tithing. Giving is the only way to know you have conquered greed.And tithing is actually a form of giving.

funny, I find no mention of tithes in that verse.

The monetary tithe is a perfect example of extortion.

Mark Miwerds: funny, I find no mention of tithes in that verse.

The monetary tithe is a perfect example of extortion.

here paul was even making a case for 100 pcnt from the corithian church cos he mentioned MATERIAL HARVEST from a seed sown..Your supporters have even conceded that giving 10pcnt of ones income to your local assembly in itself isn't bad as long as it is from the heart. Pple don't give because they are cajoled to give.

They give proportionately based on what God has blessed them with. I can't give what i don't have..Your argument most times here is that believers shouldn't even give at all to ministries and it is rather funny that so many scriptures in the NT debunks your insinuations. If 10pcnt is fraud..Then folks that partner with other ministries by giving their all are defrauded using your logic here.

Bidam: here paul was even making a case for 100 pcnt from the corithian church cos he mentioned MATERIAL HARVEST from a seed sown..Your supporters have even conceded that giving 10pcnt of ones income to your local assembly in itself isn't bad as long as it is from the heart. Pple don't give because they are cajoled to give.

They give proportionately based on what God has blessed them with. I can't give what i don't have..Your argument most times here is that believers shouldn't even give at all to ministries and it is rather funny that so many scriptures in the NT debunks your insinuations. If 10pcnt is fraud..Then folks that partner with other ministries by giving their all are defrauded using your logic here.

actually, many do give because they are cajoled into giving. They are promised God's blessings if they tithe their money. They are also promised curses if they don't tithe their money.

I have never said I was against giving. You falsely accuse me in a foolish attempt to make me look bad and you to look good.

What I am against the handling of God's Word deceitfully as all monetary tithe teachers do in order to garner money from God's people.

Mark Miwerds: actually, many do give because they are cajoled into giving. They are promised God's blessings if they tithe their money. They are also promised curses if they don't tithe their money.

I have never said I was against giving. You falsely accuse me in a foolish attempt to make me look bad and you to look good.

What I am against the handling of God's Word deceitfully as all monetary tithe teachers do in order to garner money from God's people.

It's always a pleasure to read your submissions sir, always so succinct and precise.

Pastor Kun:

It's always a pleasure to read your submissions sir, always so succinct and precise.

thank you, Pastor Kun

Bidam: here paul was even making a case for 100 pcnt from the corithian church cos he mentioned MATERIAL HARVEST from a seed sown..Your supporters have even conceded that giving 10pcnt of ones income to your local assembly in itself isn't bad as long as it is from the heart. Pple don't give because they are cajoled to give.

1. Paul was not making a case for 100% - fail !

2. Paul qualified his statement thus "14 In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel."

This had nothing to do with 10,20, or 100% , it simply meant that missionaries ( who were always on the move ) deserved to have their needs met by the body of Christ through love and willingness, not through coercion or the tithe of mammon.

3. Yet Pauls Integrity would not allow him depend solely on this source of assistance, instead he said:
"Don't you remember, dear brothers and sisters, how hard we worked among you? Night and day we toiled to earn a living so that we would not be a burden to any of you as we preached God's Good News to you." - 1 Thessalonians 2:9


Is it not a shame to many so called MOG today that depend on the wealth and in most cases meager incomes of the poor to live lives of personal aggrandizement , when great men like Paul had to work day and night to have their needs met ? I tell you , the judgement of these frauds does not slumber.

Where is the integrity in many of these wicked wolves and hirelings you support or are you also one of them ?

They give proportionately based on what God has blessed them with.

But who do they give to ? To the Pastor ? - No

Early church giving was direct to where the needs were, there was no giving that was done in secret or where the pastors and his accountants deposited the money into a bank account and used it as they saw fit, no , never. As soon as the money came in, it went back out to the hungry, poor, widows and whoever had dire need.

There was not a case of taking from the poor to give to the pastors, it was more like taking from the haves to give to the havenots which unfortunately is not the case in 90% of the Nigerian churches of mammon today.

I can't give what i don't have..Your argument most times here is that believers shouldn't even give at all to ministries and it is rather funny that so many scriptures in the NT debunks your insinuations. If 10pcnt is fraud..Then folks that partner with other ministries by giving their all are defrauded using your logic here.

What you really mean by giving to ministries is giving to the Pastor and his henchmen which is FRAUD. Yes it is. The Pastor has no right over the hard earned monies of others, it is a collective decision as to what this money should be used for.

Mark Miwerds: actually, many do give because they are cajoled into giving. They are promised God's blessings if they tithe their money. They are also promised curses if they don't tithe their money.

I still maintain my position,that many still don't give because they are cajoled to, rather they give because they saw it in scriptures.Giving should even be the least of what we preach, i wonder your fixation on this.As for promise of God's blessings it is scriptural don't get it twisted pal.

Paul even said so here:

Philippians 4:17-19

Amplified Bible (AMP)

17 Not that I seek or am eager for [your] gift, but I do seek and am eager for the fruit which increases to your credit [the harvest of blessing that is accumulating to your account].

18 But I have [your full payment] and more; I have everything I need and am amply supplied, now that I have received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent me. [They are the] fragrant odor of an offering and sacrifice which God welcomes and in which He delights.

19 And my God will liberally supply ([a]fill to the full) your every need according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus.
At the bolded Paul even promised God's blessings based on what the Philippians folks did,He NEVER made such statements in other churches, you can provide scripture to counter me if he actually did so.So by your twisted logic Paul must be the biggest fraud for saying God will bless this folks.

I have never said I was against giving. You falsely accuse me in a foolish attempt to make me look bad and you to look good.

PACK OF WHITE LIES. If you are against 10% you are actually against everything called giving. You handled the word of God deceitfully by painting a picture that givings are not scriptural,your post are riddled with it if you really are sincere to your self.

What I am against the handling of God's Word deceitfully as all monetary tithe teachers do in order to garner money from God's people.

The same God that spoke through Moses spoke through Malachi,spoke through Jesus,spoke through Paul on GIVINGS. If givings is not in scripture, you have every right to make a case.As of now you have no case.

frosbel:

1. Paul was not making a case for 100% - fail !

2. Paul qualified his statement thus "14 In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel."

This had nothing to do with 10,20, or 100% , it simply meant that missionaries ( who were always on the move ) deserved to have their needs met by the body of Christ through love and willingness, not through coercion or the tithe of mammon.

3. Yet Pauls Integrity would not allow him depend solely on this source of assistance, instead he said:
"Don't you remember, dear brothers and sisters, how hard we worked among you? Night and day we toiled to earn a living so that we would not be a burden to any of you as we preached God's Good News to you." - 1 Thessalonians 2:9


Is it not a shame to many so called MOG today that depend on the wealth and in most cases meager incomes of the poor to live lives of personal aggrandizement , when great men like Paul had to work day and night to have their needs met ? I tell you , the judgement of these frauds does not slumber.

Where is the integrity in many of these wicked wolves and hirelings you support or are you also one of them ?



But who do they give to ? To the Pastor ? - No

Early church giving was direct to where the needs were, there was no giving that was done in secret or where the pastors and his accountants deposited the money into a bank account and used it as they saw fit, no , never. As soon as the money came in, it went back out to the hungry, poor, widows and whoever had dire need.

There was not a case of taking from the poor to give to the pastors, it was more like taking from the haves to give to the havenots which unfortunately is not the case in 90% of the Nigerian churches of mammon today.



What you really mean by giving to ministries is giving to the Pastor and his henchmen which is FRAUD. Yes it is. The Pastor has no right over the hard earned monies of others, it is a collective decision as to what this money should be used for.

SMH!If you sow a seed, what kind of harvest are you expecting? 100/60 or 30 fold harvest?

^^^^

You have perfected the art of using the holy word of God to suit your false doctrines, my advice to you is to stop following MEN and start to read the word of God back into its intended context.

It is too late now for the churches of mammon, the cat has been let out of the bag and there's no going back in.

Some facts for your perusal

- The tithe is abolished, period.
- Sowing seed is not about mammon
- Giving to God is more blessed when you expect nothing in return
- Collecting money is for the benefit of the body of Christ, not for the Pastor
- The bible does not talk about partnering with ministries and sowing seeds into them , this is a LIE from Satan
- Threatening Gods sheep with a curse because they refuse to pay for your pastors high living income is not biblical
- Putting into practice something God has not commanded is FRAUD.

Image123:

hahahahaha, no comments. i have more important things to attend to.

After 100 pages of this debate the above is the most noble action for every tithe advocate on this thread including the OP and Bidam; having been shown beyond every reasonable doubt that monetary tithing as practised today is "419"!

frosbel: ^^^^

You have perfected the art of using the holy word of God to suit your false doctrines, my advice to you is to stop following MEN and start to read the word of God back into its intended context.

It is too late now for the churches of mammon, the cat has been let out of the bag and there's no going back in.

Some facts for your perusal

- The tithe is abolished, period.
- Sowing seed is not about mammon
- Giving to God is more blessed when you expect nothing in return
- Collecting money is for the benefit of the body of Christ, not for the Pastor
- The bible does not talk about partnering with ministries and sowing seeds into them , this is a LIE from Satan
- Threatening Gods sheep with a curse because they refuse to pay for your pastors high living income is not biblical
- Putting into practice something God has not commanded is FRAUD.

ALL this are your vain ideas which have no scriptural support. Paul said he sowed spiritual seeds to the Corinthian folks and he expects a MATERIAL HARVEST deal with scriptures and not me.Scripture also said he who sows sparingly REAPS sparingly,he who sows bountifully REAPS bountifully. The Christian walk is a Faith walk. It is NOT anti scriptural if you give expecting a HARVEST. You have to deal with the scriptures not me or any so called pastor in your vain and futile imaginations.

DrummaBoy: After 100 pages of this debate the above is the most noble action for every tithe advocate on this thread including the OP and Bidam; having been shown beyond every reasonable doubt that monetary tithing as practised today is "419"!

Maybe i will stop if folks like you stop pasting lies and deceit to discredit genuine ministries and genuine believers concerning GIVINGS.

Bidam: Maybe i will stop if folks like you stop pasting lies and deceit to discredit genuine ministries and genuine believers concerning GIVINGS.

Hurray!!! You finally end your e-malice with me. You have never truly learnt the art like your friend Alwaytstrue does so perfectly. Tell her that e-malice is a sin and can make you loose your salvation according to your bible.

1 Corinthians 9:11-15 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ. Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.

Paul didn't want remuneration for his preaching. (even though he had the power to receive it)

His reason? He didn't want his receiving monetary payment for preaching to hinder the Gospel of Christ. He went on to say that if he received monetary compensation for preaching the Gospel, it would make his glorying void. His attitude was that he would rather die than accept payment for preaching.

Too bad many of today's ministers don't have the same attitude as Paul. The Church they pastor just might move forward.