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"Stop Giving Offerings In Redeemed Churches If....." - Pastor Adeboye / Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles / Give Your 'Tithes' And Offerings To The Less Fortunate In Church (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Tithes And Offerings by DrummaBoy(m): 11:46am On Oct 29, 2013 |
Bidam: hmmn..truth hurts doesn't it. I really hit you where it hurts.lol. When did Chris Oyakhilome become an authority in gospel preaching? The last I checked he is yet to be admitted even in the Pentecostal Fellowship whose doctrines he claims to be espousing. 1 Like |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by DrummaBoy(m): 11:51am On Oct 29, 2013 |
Candour: @Candour I missed the Oyakhilome piece on tithing. Pleases can you re-post it here? The one I saw was Adeboye's revelation on firstfruit. A thread the "most holy" Bidam and others wisely dodged. Found it: https://www.nairaland.com/1189741/tithes-offerings/92#19108183. Thanks Candour! @Bidam I need to congratulate you on this latest revelation of Jesus being a Pharisee. Quite ingenious. Keep it up! 1 Like |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Enigma(m): 11:58am On Oct 29, 2013 |
Candour: +1 When we present lies to people of a questioning mind, and they discover we have been lying even though it is on doctrinally inconsequential things such as tithing --- then we shouldn't be surprised if in intellectually lazy fashion (on their part), they simply reject everything else we say. Similarly, when we build and seek to establish "authority" or "primacy" on the basis of an edifice of gigantic fraud, we should not be surprised when people who come to realise the gigantic fraud lose sight of and turn their back on the precious faith. I am confident in my mind that of all the groups claiming to be Christian, the two from which people are most rapidly turning away and to atheism are: 1. The Word of Faith aka WoF aka Prosperity Gospel ---- in Nigeria, this is particularly bad with its penetration of all kind of hustlers hoping to cash in on tithes and "dangerous" seeds etc such that we see such things as "Cutlass Sharp Sharp Ministry" (ok I made the name up but what we see is not far from that!) 2. The Roman Catholic church denomination ---- for all the good that this one has done, it is just too full of too many lies and frauds; and when in the face of that it seeks to claim "authority" and moral ground, yet its priests are not leaving small pikin yanshes alone ........... But then very happily, there will always be a remnant! 2 Likes |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Nobody: 12:04pm On Oct 29, 2013 |
Candour:I am truly sorry if my initial post sounded septic and toxic.I never meant it that way.I will work on communication. |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Candour(m): 12:29pm On Oct 29, 2013 |
Bidam: I am truly sorry if my initial post sounded septic and toxic.I never meant it that way.I will work on communication. No problems. I accept your apology and will be very happy to see you work on the communication part. Accept mine too for any hurt you feel. The truth hurts like you said but I'll have to change my handle from Candour to another thing before I'll be scared of saying the truth or being told the truth myself. Cheers 1 Like |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by DrummaBoy(m): 12:34pm On Oct 29, 2013 |
Enigma: I am a convert from both the Roman Catholic Church system and the Word of Faith movement. I was born to a Muslim father and a Roman Catholic mother. I was baptized in the RCC and was in that church till I committed my life to Jesus Christ in 1998. The man who led me to Jesus took me to his church, a pentecostal fellowship, with a strong persuasion towards the WoF, like most pentecostal churches in Nigeria. I was full of zeal and wanted to know and have all that God wanted me to have. Unfortunately, though my Pastor was trained by Archbishop Benson Idhahosa, he was a disaster as far as gospel preaching was concerned. So I resorted to reading christian literatures and the bible. Most of the literatures that came my way at first by the WoF movements were very boring. Simply bc much of what they sold as doctrine in their books were not what I needed. I was saved quite alright but I was struggling with sin. I needed a doctrine to understand my sin nature and overcome it. I eventually stumbled on Reformed Theology and that for me was the break. Although the man who introduced me to it, Dr R.T. Kendall, he succeeded Martyn Lloyd Jones at Westminster Chapel, London, taught tithing. That is why despite being Reformed in thinking, I still tithed. But for many years of tithing, I really felt there was something amiss about it: especially with the fact that there is no record of any Christian tithing in the bible. Then came March this year, when I asked about tithing on this forum and the rest, they say, is history. My point in all this is to agree with Enigma that God is saving many people from the WoF movement and the RCC, and I am a case in point. When you listen to the discuss of the pro-tithers on this forum, especially with those who have been honest enough to tell us where they fellowship in, you realize that every one them come from either the WoF movement or from churches that have such influences. That is why, if scriptural discusses do not work and these people refuse to admit that the bible does not teach what they claim it is teaching (in regards to tithing and other such practices), the very next step is to point out the errors in the lives, doctrine and practices of their teachers. So when you mention Adeboye, Oyedepo, Oyakhilome, Joyce Meyer, Kenneth Hagin, Osteen, etc, these guys become very angry and defensive and begin to claim you are attacking personalities. They say these things because all of their lives beliefs and practices stem from what these men and women teach. I am not afraid to name those who have influenced my theological outlook to life, after Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit and the bible. Anyone may check my teachers out and they can be sure they will not find skeleton in their cupboard. For example: Dr. Martyn Lloyd Jones (1900-1981), Minister at the Westminster Chapel (1938-1968). Q.E.D 2 Likes |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Enigma(m): 12:40pm On Oct 29, 2013 |
Bros, you don't know how much of your post reads to me! I am busy now and cannot say much! Let me just say that years ago I often went to Westminster Chapel to listen to RT especially when he did a series called "School of Theology" (IIRC); RT is a good man and well meaning but forgive for saying this of a respected elder, he is/was a bit naive and at one point even allowed Rodney Howard Browne to desecrate the Chapel! God bless you deeply, bros! EDIT PS I forgot to add that I am a huge fan of the late Dr. Martin Lloyd Jones. 1 Like |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Image123(m): 12:50pm On Oct 29, 2013 |
i do not think there is any valid reason to not preach the gospel or reach sinners/atheists. The will of God is to go into all the world and to every creature. There will always be tares till Jesus comes. God has not anyone the ministry of smiting your fellowservants. |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by DrummaBoy(m): 12:50pm On Oct 29, 2013 |
Enigma: Bros, you don't know how much of your post reads to me! I am busy now and cannot say much! R. T. Kendall is a great teacher and I understand what your mean by his being naive. His book "Worshipping God" was next to the bible for me in my early days as a new convert. But reading his account on tithing now, I have a feeling he really does not believe the Reformed Theology he claims to espouse and may be playing to the gallery sometimes. When I read Lloyd Jones wikipedia's account, I saw there that Lloyd Jones fell out with him on some theological matters to the extent that the old man requesting that Kendall should not officiate at his burial. I do not know if that account is true but it may lend credence to your position that Kendall could be naive. Nevertheless, the best of men are men at their best. And that is why it is so wrong to uplift men and make them GO and such likes, as it is so common in the WoF movement. When they err, a whole generation can err with them as it is being seen with those following the teachings of Kenneth Hagin. 1 Like |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Enigma(m): 12:53pm On Oct 29, 2013 |
DrummaBoy: .... Nevertheless, the best of men are men at their best. You this man! honestly you are talking far too much sense for one morning! I don't know how many + I want to put now. Let's just say +1000. 1 Like |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Alwaystrue(f): 1:00pm On Oct 29, 2013 |
@Bidam and Candour, I think I like the way this your discussion turned out in the sense that everyone gets to see where they have an issue to work on. I take this as a lesson therefore. At the end of the day the words of the Master Jesus Christ never fails and are Spirit and Truth to the end. Every other person whether the apostles and present day ministers as well as us will all stand before the Master Jesus to give account of our lives on earth. Let us ensure we uphold the Word of God over every circumstance. With this, irrrespective of whatever anyone says, like the bereans who went to confirm from scriptures if Paul's words were true, we too will have the Word of God to fall back on, not the words of man. 1 Like |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Candour(m): 1:06pm On Oct 29, 2013 |
@Enigma and DrummaBoy This your discussion reminded me of the discussion I had with one pastor I met yesterday afternoon. His anthem is always that God is not a grand father and all Christians are equal before God irrespective of title. Yesterday he was telling me that plenty congregations will push their pastors into destruction because of hero worshipping. That when you eulogise your pastor too much, he'll be under pressure to perform. So even the days he has no special revelation from God, he'll have to conjure up something not to 'fall una hands' and before you know it, he's conscience is dead and he throws all caution to the wind. We see this happening in Christian circles today. We must always remember that no man is infallible and the best of men will always remain a man like DrummaBoy said above. |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Nobody: 7:42am On Oct 30, 2013 |
DrummaBoy:Where did any of my post infer what you're insinuating? If i talk na dem go say i get gutter mouth You folks just like to look for in-existence trouble sha. |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Nobody: 8:03am On Oct 30, 2013 |
DrummaBoy:Thanks for the hypocritical comment. Last time i checked,Pharisee is just a strict sect in Judaism.Your Paul you esteem to high heavens was a pharisee of the pharisees. I wonder why the obnoxious comment since you never regarded Jesus as God here. |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by MarkMiwerds(m): 9:19am On Oct 30, 2013 |
Bidam: Thanks for the hypocritical comment. Last time i checked,Pharisee is just a strict sect in Judaism.Your Paul you esteem to high heavens was a pharisee of the pharisees.1. Jesus was not a Pharisee. He was always at odds with the Pharisees. 2. While it is true that Saul was a Pharisee, the Apostle Paul was not. Once Paul came to faith in Christ, he was no longer a Pharisee. He hated the old man and all that was associated with his old nature so much that he said he counted all his past as dung. He even changed his name from Saul to Paul. He didn't even want the old name. 1 Like |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by MarkMiwerds(m): 9:59am On Oct 30, 2013 |
DrummaBoy: Just re-read Pastor Chris' "The Giving That Stands You Out" and was totally disgusted with his blatant misuse of Scripture to justify his greed. 1. Tithes - Malachi 3 was not speaking of a monetary tithe, but the tithe required by Mosaic/Levitic Law. That is, tithes of crops and livestock. 2. Offerings - Again, if one reads the Scripture Oyak references, (Ex. 23:15) it is not speaking of money at all... it is speaking of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. All were to eat unleavened bread for seven days. "No one is to be empty" is speaking of unleavened bread, not money. 3. Financial gifts above the alleged tithes and offerings? That man is the picture of greed and deceit. Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Oyakilome totally wrests the Scripture, contorting it into a ministry of lies. 1 Like |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Nobody: 12:28pm On Oct 30, 2013 |
Mark Miwerds:Paul wouldn't have believed the Spirit that appeared to Him on his way to damascus claiming to be Jesus,if he wasn't a pharisee.Only the pharisees believed in Angels and ressurection.The saducees don't. Moreso,You lied in your second point.Paul still claimed he was a pharisee after the encounter with Jesus.his name changed,never changed who he was.It is just like saying i am no longer a yoruba since i am now a christian. I can change my name but not my roots.(Acts 23:6-10). |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Nobody: 12:29pm On Oct 30, 2013 |
Mark Miwerds: |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Demainman1: 12:36pm On Oct 30, 2013 |
Bidam: Paul wouldn't have believed the Spirit that appeared to Him on his way to damascus claiming to be Jesus,if he wasn't a pharisee.Only the pharisees believed in Angels and ressurection.The saducees don't. Who is a Pharisee?: A member of an ancient Jewish sect that emphasized strict interpretation and observance of the Mosaic law in both its oral and written form. Your comparison using a yoruba man is flawed as a pharisee is not a tribe but a sect. An association more like. I can be a member of Rotary club today and denounce my membership tomorrow is a better analogy sir. 2 Likes |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by MarkMiwerds(m): 12:49pm On Oct 30, 2013 |
Bidam: Paul wouldn't have believed the Spirit that appeared to Him on his way to damascus claiming to be Jesus,if he wasn't a pharisee.Only the pharisees believed in Angels and ressurection.The saducees don't. Actually, I did not lie at all. In all of Paul's epistles, he only mentions being a Pharisee in one passage... Phil. 3:4-8. Notice: Philippians 3:4-8 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and[b] I count all things but loss[/b] for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, Paul, when speaking of being a Pharisee, was speaking of his past state,... not of his present state. After his Salvation experience on Damascus Road, Paul rejected the sect of the Pharisees, counting that past life as dung. 2 Likes |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Joagbaje(m): 1:23pm On Oct 30, 2013 |
Mark Miwerds: Leave pastor oyakhilome alone na. Deal with Ola posts and the people on the thread. 1 Like |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Image123(m): 1:30pm On Oct 30, 2013 |
Mark Miwerds: i'm not into this argument of whether Jesus is a pharisee or not. There is nothing wrong with being a pharisee. Some of Jesus' disciples were pharisees, and Paul told people that he is a pharisee. God however is against hypocrisy, pride, scorn, unbelief etc wherever it may be found. People like to lay emphasis on whther a person is SU or a member of a particular church. That is not what matters. Leaving or joining a particular group is irrelevant if you still have strife, seditious spirit, pride, hypocrisy, unbelief etc in you. Acts 23:6 But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a PHARISEE, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question. 1 Like |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Nobody: 2:29pm On Oct 30, 2013 |
Demain_man:Nope it isn't. Jesus was a JEW(tribe) but that never stopped him from being a PROPHET,PRIEST,KING AND ULTIMATELY GOD. |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Demainman1: 2:33pm On Oct 30, 2013 |
Bidam: Nope it isn't. Jesus was a JEW(tribe) but that never stopped him from being a PROPHET,PRIEST,KING AND ULTIMATELY GOD. Pharisees are JEWS. Jesus is not a Pharisee 1 Like |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Nobody: 2:38pm On Oct 30, 2013 |
Mark Miwerds:You 're still lying.He never rejected it before the Sanhedrin council.Funny you who claim we twist scriptures are here twisting scriptures. I can understand your fixation on Paul. You 're trying too hard to reject the idea he was schooled in Judaism. Acts 23:6-7 Amplified Bible (AMP) 6 But Paul, when he perceived that one part of them were Sadducees and the other part Pharisees, cried out to the council (Sanhedrin), Brethren,[size=16pt] I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees; it is with regard to the hope and the resurrection of the dead that I am indicted and being judged. [/size] 7 So when he had said this, an angry dispute arose between the Pharisees and the Sadducees; and the whole [crowded] assemblage was divided [into two factions]. |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Nobody: 2:41pm On Oct 30, 2013 |
Demain_man:Jesus is a Jew. You worship a jewish God. oya vex. |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Demainman1: 2:54pm On Oct 30, 2013 |
^^^^ I no go vex. I for like make you read the whole of Act 22 and Act 23 to undestand better the context with which paul spoke that statement. Make una no dey quote one verse for bible because one verse does not usually explain anything IMO. Joagbaje na specialist for one line quotation that usually distort the meaning of the whole thing. I consider that an action of a fraudster, really. 3 Likes |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by OLAADEGBU(m): 6:45pm On Nov 06, 2013 |
The Two Tithing Systems: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnPXYW4axaY It is clear that this is an issue of honouring or dishonouring God (1 Samuel 2:30). 1 Like |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Joagbaje(m): 11:21pm On Nov 06, 2013 |
Demain_man: Which scripture was quoted out of context |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by Nobody: 12:00am On Nov 07, 2013 |
Demain_man: ^^^^ I no go vex.can you tell us the context in which paul spoke? Isn't it funny,how you keep statements like this hanging in thin air? |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by OLAADEGBU(m): 7:11pm On Nov 07, 2013 |
The Two Tithing Systems: 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L1U6r1u0mk "How can you believe, which receive honour one of another and seek not the honour that comes from God only?" (John 5:44). When we honour God's word then God is going to honour us with the blessing. |
Re: Tithes And Offerings by DrummaBoy(m): 7:24pm On Nov 07, 2013 |
OLAADEGBU: The Two Tithing Systems: Do you have to descend so low as to use Creflo Dollar to lend credence to this fraudulent practice of tithing? Do you remember that on a good day the Deeper Life Church will not share fellowship with a Creflo Dollar; except, of course, in tithing. And, when you could not find anymore scriptures to twist, you resort to the Chief Prosperity Gospeller of America, Dollar, a man named after Mammon itself and who has remained true to his name, to justify tithing. You should look well in the mirror (of God's word) to see who is dishonoring God! 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men - Matthew 15 2 Likes |
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