Zikkyy:

i want to believe this is public knowledge since you guys know so much. The question is what is the police doing to bring the affected priests to justice. Are they waiting for the church to first report them before they act? it's not just the catholic church, most institutions will first consider the potential damage before taking any action. you will not achieve much if you are waiting for the institution to report them.



for the church to take action, somebody must have reported the case. which is easier? reporting to the police or reporting to another priest or bishop?

May God bless you for such a wonderful QUESTION. But I have repeated this question over and over again, but all they could do is to call me a Child Molester. I used to think that when someone can't answer a simple question, the best thing to do is to declear that you can't answer the question, or simply go and make some research, but on this very thread, when someone can't answer a question, the nest thing he/she does is to start abusing everybody both present and absent, so as to divert attention and make the questioner to comment more on the abuse rather than demand answeres for the questions asked. *Zikkyy* I won't be suprise if they call you a Ra.pist for asking this humble question. Could you imagine the last time they called me a Child Molester for asking a similar question and it obvious they can't answer the question.

Zikkyy:

i want to believe this is public knowledge since you guys know so much. The question is what is the police doing to bring the affected priests to justice. Are they waiting for the church to first report them before they act? it's not just the catholic church, most institutions will first consider the potential damage before taking any action. you will not achieve much if you are waiting for the institution to report them.



for the church to take action, somebody must have reported the case. which is easier? reporting to the police or reporting to another priest or bishop?

Following the law of the land would usually do. The law of the land in many places is that these be reported to local authorities. They weren't. Was there a conspiracy? Did superiors aware of these crimes interfere in a way that violated the law? Did they order or encourage breaches of the local laws?

Also consider that known offenders were simply relocated to other regions by their superiors. There could be some legal issues there as well.

Outside of law, for context, consider the organization involved considers itself some sort of moral authority. They're behavior has been astronomically self serving and hypocritical. Clearly evil as far as the vast majority of moral codes are concerned. One could say they're behavior is possibly universally evil even, in this day and age.

From the posts in this thread one would think they consider themselves above the law and infallible. Here we have a group that seems to think whatever they declare as 'good' is good. If they declared hitler good it seems most of the followers would have no issues with that.

plaetton:

World wide , how many reported cases of abuse is the catholic church dealing with right now? Take a guess?
World wide, how many unreported cases of abuse do you think that are out there right now, lets say in the last 30ys, 50yrs, 100yrs, or , in the last 2000 yrs?
Are you not thoroughly ashamed that the catholic church, an institution supposedly representing Christ, son of god, an institution that is supposed to be the repository of the highest morality, justice and a safest refuge for children, turns out to be the cesspool of hedonism, immorality and exploitation?
And here you are telling us that pedophelia is , after all, a worldwide phenomena.
Shame shame shame!
In the whole world, can you name one global institution that has more cases of pedophelia than the catholic church?.
How many cases have the catholic church investigated?
How many priests who have been found culpable have been reported and handed over to the police for prosecution?
Or do you also think that it is the duty of the child victims to report to the police?

By their words you should know them.

You had better shut up or risk losing whatever respect you enjoy on this forum.

Talking about unreported cases how many unreported cases do you know happening in other institutions.The catholic church is only targeted because of its size and thus it is always big news whenever the catholic church is involved.

I have suggested victims should report their case directly to the police yet you also frown @ it.I wonder what more you expect from the catholic church?

Zikkyy:

musKeeto is right, i don't see much difference between your response and oyedepo's supporters. i honestly don't think you will achieve much fighting on behalf of the Pope. If people believe the pope should be arrested they should go ahead, though i don't see that happening.

I am not fighting on behalf of the pope.It is only fair that one shpuld be held liable for his own actions and not for someone else's.The fact remains that the pope has not even been suponeated by any court for any crime hence all such write ups are just the handworks of detractors.

There merely targeting the pope because he is the head of the catholic church and as such would want to bring the church to ridicule through him.If benedict has remained cardinal ratzinger I can assure you that you would not even hear anybody mentioning his name in all this cases.The target of this detractors is the church and not Benedict.

wiegraf:

Following the law of the land would usually do. The law of the land in many places is that these be reported to local authorities. They weren't. Was there a conspiracy? Did superiors aware of these crimes interfere in a way that violated the law? Did they order or encourage breaches of the local laws?

Also consider that known offenders were simply relocated to other regions by their superiors. There could be some legal issues there as well.

Outside of law, for context, consider the organization involved considers itself some sort of moral authority. They're behavior has been astronomically self serving and hypocritical. Clearly evil as far as the vast majority of moral codes are concerned. One could say they're behavior is possibly universally evil even, in this day and age.

From the posts in this thread one would think they consider themselves above the law and infallible. Here we have a group that seems to think whatever they declare as 'good' is good. If they declared hitler good it seems most of the followers would have no issues with that.

If you have any case to proove Benedicts involvement kindly take it to the court and try your luck.You think if there was any merit in these claims there would not be covered by the news crazy popular western media outlets.Why does it have to be here on nairaland that it is been debated?

chukwudi44:

Talking about unreported cases how many unreported cases do you know happening in other institutions.The catholic church is only targeted because of its size and thus it is always big news whenever the catholic church is involved.

I have suggested victims should report their case directly to the police yet you also frown @ it.I wonder what more you expect from the catholic church?

IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY COFFESION IS GOOD FOR THE SOUL THE CATHOLIC CHURCH SHOULD CONFESS ITS SINS

ALSO LOOKING AT AN INSTITUTION THAT RULED THE WORLD FOR 1260YRS (CATHOLIC DARK AGES) ONE CAN APPRECIATE HOW DIFFICULT IT IS FOR THE POLICE TO PROSECUTE THEM.


PEACE LOVE AND JOY!!

MostHigh:

IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY COFFESION IS GOOD FOR THE SOUL THE CATHOLIC CHURCH SHOULD CONFESS ITS SINS

ALSO LOOKING AT AN INSTITUTION THAT RULED THE WORLD FOR 1260YRS (CATHOLIC DARK AGES) ONE CAN APPRECIATE HOW DIFFICULT IT IS FOR THE POLICE TO PROSECUTE THEM.


PEACE LOVE AND JOY!!

While the late pope johnpaul ii had apologised for atrocities committed by catholics over the ages.No one has come forward to apologise for atrocities committed by protestants,muslims or even atheists.Abi is this confession restricted to the catholic church alone?

chukwudi44:

I am not fighting on behalf of the pope.It is only fair that one shpuld be held liable for his own actions and not for someone else's.The fact remains that the pope has not even been suponeated by any court for any crime hence all such write ups are just the handworks of detractors.

There merely targeting the pope because he is the head of the catholic church and as such would want to bring the church to ridicule through him.If benedict has remained cardinal ratzinger I can assure you that you would not even hear anybody mentioning his name in all this cases.The target of this detractors is the church and not Benedict.

THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS HIS GOOD FRIEND IS A BOY LOVER

HE WAS PUT IN CHARGE OF THE COMMISSION CHARGED TO LOOK INTO THESE ALLEGATTIONS

DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH MONEY IN PAYOFFS HAS BEEN SPENT BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

ITS A SHAME U R TRYING TO DISASOCIATE YOURSELF FROM THIS SIN (LIKE MOST CATHOLICS WOULD)ARE YOU ALL NOT OF ONE CLOTH ANYMORE?


PEACE LOVE AND JOY!!!

chukwudi44:

While the late pope johnpaul ii had apologised for atrocities committed by catholics over the ages.No one has come forward to apologise for atrocities committed by protestants,muslims or even atheists.Abi is this confession restricted to the catholic church alone?

YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT

DOES THIS MAKE PEDOPHILIA RIGHT?

BECAUSE OTHERS ARE NOT BEING PROSECUTED FOR SUPPOSED CRIMES DOSENT MAKE BOY LOVING RIGHT

PLS BE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR ACTIONS.

PEACE LOVE AND JOY!!

Lovethywilbedon: Just Look at this one, delibrately interpreting a simple statement out of contest. So you don't understand what I mean by "he is protected on every side". He is protected (by his INNOCENSE on every side) from your Baseless, Demonic, Wicked Plans to discredit the Vicar of Christ. Exactly as GEJ is proteted on every side by his innocence, if people like you will come up tomorrow to accuse him of being responsible for every pencil stolen in every classroom of the thousands of primary school in Naigeria. REASON: [1]He is not the little theif. [2]He is not the parent who is surposed to provide the needs of the pupil [3]He is not the form master who's work it is to punish and discourage theft. [4]He is not the Headmaster, who admitted the pupil. Guess what you people are doing, you left all the 4 persons who are directly or indirectly responsible, in addition you jumped the PTA Chairman, the Chairman of the State Education Commission ie State Education Commissioner and the Education Minister (all innocent people), to blaim The President GEJ who this theft cannot be linked to. It is obvious that you are delibrately linking this to the Pope since the Catholic Church has a similar HIERARCHY. As for appologies, so you want to tell me that you can't render an appology, unbehalf of your friend who commited a Crime? By doing that, are responsible for his Crime?

THE VICAR OF CHRIST YOU TALK ABOUT IS SATAN HIMSELF

VICARIUS FILLIE DEI= VICAR OF CHRIST=ASSISTANT OF JESUS CHRIST WHEN HE IS NOT AROUND

AND WE ALL KNOW THAT CHRIST HAS NO ASSISTANT

IN OTHER WORDS HE IS SAYING MY OFFICE IS GODS OFFICE ON EARTH

ALSO FOR YOUR EDIFICATION VICARIUS FILLIE DEI SUMATES TO 666

THIS IS WHAT JOHN WAS TRYING TO TELL YOU FROM PATMOS, CHRIST HAS NO ASSISTANT ONLY SATAN WOULD CLAIM THAT TITLE OR POSITION

PEACE LOVE AND JOY!!!

MostHigh:

YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT

DOES THIS MAKE PEDOPHILIA RIGHT?

BECAUSE OTHERS ARE NOT BEING PROSECUTED FOR SUPPOSED CRIMES DOSENT MAKE BOY LOVING RIGHT

PLS BE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR ACTIONS.

PEACE LOVE AND JOY!!

Sorry I thought I was talking to someone with some grey matter in his cranium.I didn't realise all you had there was just vegetable salad.

Ubenedictus: hahaha, a coverup that doesnt exist.
And ur number 2 is interesting, when an american child steal meat obama is indirectly responsible.
Just interesting

WHAT ABOUT THE BILLIONS PAYED OUT TO VICTIMS IN COURTS IN IRELAND AMERICA AND AUSTRALIA IS THIS ALSO FABRICATION

SINCE THIS ISSUE IS ADDRESSING A PARTICULAR FAITH (ONE CLOTH) ITS EITHER A QUESTION OF BEING COMPLICIT OR OF YOU CONFESSING THE CRIMES ARE HEDIOUSE AND THE VICTIMS DESERVE JUSTICE (MINUS THE CASH BENEFITS).

THERE IS NO MIDDLE GROUND.

ALL ELSE NA JUST LONG TALK


PEACE LOVE AND JOY!!

chukwudi44:

Sorry I thought I was talking to someone with some grey matter in his cranium.I didn't realise all you had there was just vegetable salad.

NA U GET YOU MOUTH

PEDOPHILE SUPPORTER!

ijawkid: I still can't understand why the pope can't be arrested or why he possesses so much immunity.....is he some kinda God or what??....even Jesus was arrested and so was his apostles......why can't the pope be arrested and tried if he is vicariously responsible for the child molestations going on in the church??..................why can't the pope be arrested oooo??...is he a king or a political ruler??.....smh!!!!....

^^

Jesus christ and the apostles are slaves/followers of the pope.

"A slave is not greater than his master"

those you mention are his slaves.

truthislight:

^^

Jesus christ and the apostles are slaves/followers of the pope.

"A slave is not greater than his master"

those you mention are his slaves.

JOKER, HOW OLD ARE U JUST OUT OF CURIOSITY?

plaetton:


You are such a dumb dumb.
If you had been reading the thread and with proper comprehension skills, You would not be parading such hollowness.
Quite frankly, I enjoy debating, but when a court jester steps in into a discussion, I get tired.

Ubenedictus asserted that the pope is neither responsible nor culpable because it is only the bishops that can oversee a priests and deal such matters.

So my question to him then was : How many pedofile priests did the bishops report and hand over the police for criminal prosecution over the many decades that the evil went on unabashed and unabated?

Ant then you started blabbing like a drunken parrot.

Is pedophilia not a criminal offence?
Are catholic priests immune from criminal law?

I wish you guys would just shut up.
You are making such a mockery of your so-called sacred faith.
Gosh .

I have told you guys that they are greater than the apostles and Jesus christ himself as such they cannot be prosecuted.

"A slave is not greater than his master".

ijawkid:

So the pope now becomes the leader of an independent state??...is that what peter was??....let's not go there sha.......

If the pope has got so much immunity so as not to be free for arrest then I think something is really wrong........has he now become a political ruler or just a servant of Christ??...........this scenario is worse than that of the G.O's in nigeria who walk about with armed security men..........I can't believe that the pope is above the law.................


If the pope is found wanting of some crimes let him be arrested and tried............chikena.....

Keep refusing to learn.

If he was under Jesus christ then he can and should be prosecuted just as it was possible for Jesus and his apostles to be prosecuted.

"A slave is not greater than his master"

wiegraf:
Following the law of the land would usually do. The law of the land in many places is that these be reported to local authorities. They weren't. Was there a conspiracy? Did superiors aware of these crimes interfere in a way that violated the law? Did they order or encourage breaches of the local laws?

You don't blame the church for that. It's like blaming ibori for the federal government's inability to bring him to justice.

wiegraf:
Also consider that known offenders were simply relocated to other regions by their superiors. There could be some legal issues there as well.

it will be much easier to discuss this if a request for extradition was made and rejected by the requested state or institution.

wiegraf:
Outside of law, for context, consider the organization involved considers itself some sort of moral authority. They're behavior has been astronomically self serving and hypocritical. Clearly evil as far as the vast majority of moral codes are concerned.

nobody can argue against this. it will be wrong of the church to 'hide' a crime. that said, i think the discussion/argument here will be more interesting if based on facts. what i observed here is that views/opinions are driven more by emotions and less of fact.

Evil Brain: Omar Al Basheer is a serving head if state and yet he has an arrest warrant on hisbhead. The moment he sets foot in any sensible, law-abiding country he's going to be arrested and flown to the Hague. I don't see why the pope should be any different.

Nobody is above the law. Let him defend himself in court.

well, you have now come to know that there is some one that is above the law.

chukwudi44:

If you have any case to proove Benedicts involvement kindly take it to the court and try your luck.You think if there was any merit in these claims there would not be covered by the news crazy popular western media outlets.Why does it have to be here on nairaland that it is been debated?

I've already linked to a case which doesn't cast ratzinger in good light, but that's besides the point atm. I'm not arguing for the validity of the op, even if it may some merit. I'm arguing for the fact that he can be prosecuted and these claims should be investigated just like any other similar cases. Like the case involving college football coaches I posted earlier. Some say ratzinger was not involved in any way but that is hard to believe. If there was a conspiracy then action should be taken against the church. It's done to various other organizations, international crime syndicates, etc, so why not the church?

Zikkyy:

You don't blame the church for that. It's like blaming ibori for the federal government's inability to bring him to justice.

I don't get your meaning here at all, it does not look that waay from where I'm sitting. Perhaps you could elaborate pls?

wiegraf:

I don't get your meaning here at all, it does not look that waay from where I'm sitting. Perhaps you could elaborate pls?

i interpret that portion of your post to mean the church frustrating efforts of the local authorities. i.e. to ensure the police are unable to do their job. please correct me if am wrong.

chukwudi44: @mosthigh

Sorry I thought I was talking to someone with some grey matter in his cranium.I didn't realise all you had there was just vegetable salad.

Anytime someone disagrees with you the person automatically becomes a no brainer.

Smh for you.

wiegraf:

I've already linked to a case which doesn't cast ratzinger in good light, but that's besides the point atm. I'm not arguing for the validity of the op, even if it may some merit. I'm arguing for the fact that he can be prosecuted and these claims should be investigated just like any other similar cases. Like the case involving college football coaches I posted earlier. Some say ratzinger was not involved in any way but that is hard to believe. If there was a conspiracy then action should be taken against the church. It's done to various other organizations, international crime syndicates, etc, so why not the church?

What kind of action do you want to be taken against the church? What has happened to other institutions whoose members were found in such scandals?who is to be held responsible for similar crimes committed by protestant,muslim or even atheists

chukwudi44:

What kind of action do you want to be taken against the church? What has happened to other institutions whoose members were found in such scandals?who is to be held responsible for similar crimes committed by protestant,muslim or even atheists

KEEP ON JUSTIFYING RITIUALISTIC SEX ABUSE AND TORTURE

wiegraf:

Following the law of the land would usually do. The law of the land in many places is that these be reported to local authorities. They weren't. Was there a conspiracy? Did superiors aware of these crimes interfere in a way that violated the law? Did they order or encourage breaches of the local laws?

Also consider that known offenders were simply relocated to other regions by their superiors. There could be some legal issues there as well.

Outside of law, for context, consider the organization involved considers itself some sort of moral authority. They're behavior has been astronomically self serving and hypocritical. Clearly evil as far as the vast majority of moral codes are concerned. One could say they're behavior is possibly universally evil even, in this day and age.

From the posts in this thread one would think they consider themselves above the law and infallible. Here we have a group that seems to think whatever they declare as 'good' is good. If they declared hitler good it seems most of the followers would have no issues with that.

Good! But you still have not answered the question. What of places where the law of the land is to report to the police and what of the cases whereby the victims reported to the police, why haven't they arrested any priest? Or are Priest above the law of the land?

chukwudi44:

I am not fighting on behalf of the pope.It is only fair that one shpuld be held liable for his own actions and not for someone else's.The fact remains that the pope has not even been suponeated by any court for any crime hence all such write ups are just the handworks of detractors.

There merely targeting the pope because he is the head of the catholic church and as such would want to bring the church to ridicule through him.If benedict has remained cardinal ratzinger I can assure you that you would not even hear anybody mentioning his name in all this cases.The target of this detractors is the church and not Benedict.

Exactly!, that is the reason why the person who opened this thread said that now they have to start afresh to LINK UP THINGS(Crime) for the new pope yet to be elected so that they can arrest him since their plans has been trashed by Benedicts resignation.

MostHigh:

THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS HIS GOOD FRIEND IS A BOY LOVER

HE WAS PUT IN CHARGE OF THE COMMISSION CHARGED TO LOOK INTO THESE ALLEGATTIONS

DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH MONEY IN PAYOFFS HAS BEEN SPENT BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

ITS A SHAME U R TRYING TO DISASOCIATE YOURSELF FROM THIS SIN (LIKE MOST CATHOLICS WOULD)ARE YOU ALL NOT OF ONE CLOTH ANYMORE?


PEACE LOVE AND JOY!!!

MostHigh Please don't Didn't you see the question he asked you? I was just expecting that your next reply(which I qouted here) will contain the answer, but instead you are talking of something else. Does that show you don't have an answer or are you try to divert attension?

Lovethywilbedon: Good! But you still have not answered the question. What of places where the law of the land is to report to the police and what of the cases whereby the victims reported to the police, why haven't they arrested any priest? Or are Priest above the law of the land?

No, they aren't. They've at least sued as many as they could catch. That's the point, there may be bigger fish here to fry, culpable, but because religion is involved it seems they may be above the law.

Main issue here to investigate, just like with any other organization: WAS THERE A CONSPIRACY?

Edits

chukwudi44:

What kind of action do you want to be taken against the church? What has happened to other institutions whoose members were found in such scandals?who is to be held responsible for similar crimes committed by protestant,muslim or even atheists

Are you implying international organizations, criminal or otherwise like say corporations, etc, are not tried?

Zikkyy:

i interpret that portion of your post to mean the church frustrating efforts of the local authorities. i.e. to ensure the police are unable to do their job. please correct me if am wrong.

I'm still a bit lost here, but more or else, yes. Ibiori would have to have done something wrong first before he considered covering up any crimes, no? Are you implying that the church is indeed guilty? I wouldn't see why they'd need to interfere if they weren't so. If he did do wrong and was genuinely regretful, yes, reporting himself is an option. It's been done before, people admitting to crimes, yes? Actually, morally speaking, I thought that was what is encouraged, yes? Legally, it certainly is.

Or are you claiming they were ignorant to the local laws? That would be a different situation, but I don't think they could claim that, look at the cases and you'd note that they were well informed.


Note, generally, I understand witch hunts are never, ever a good thing, but if they encouraged a cover up of any sorts then they need to be held accountable to that and face the consequences, whatever they may be.

If they knew the law then it was they're obligation to follow them, once involved. If it's that they simply looked the other way and pretended it never happened, ok, despite how odious that sounds one MAYBE could let it slip (depends on the parties, really). But if they actually ordered or encouraged the priests to keep quiet and not report the issues, that's inexcusable. It would be similar to the Assange example I gave earlier, at least, or maybe even worse. Then there's the case of simply reassigning sex offenders, that could also be seriously stepping on some laws.

If the head of a mexican cartel crossed the borders and the US had evidence linking him to his hench men that did damage in the US, do you really think they'd just let it be? Did bin laden fly those planes to the US himself? etc, etc

Edits

Matthew 16:18

''And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.''

The Pope is the Vicar of Christ. And in that context, he is deemed infallible...even in the face of glaring errors. Leave church leadership for it's appointed leaders. Don't align yourself with those who make attempt at ridiculing the church, lest you declare yourself an enemy of Christ.