coogar:
it's the same - they were both together in the living room, the son went out as the father drifted to sleep. the father could have asked the "intruder" who he was.....but he didn't. he just shot him point blank.


by the same token, the father should have checked for his son knowing there were 2 of them watching TV before he dozed off. these cases are very similar. pistorious is disabled, such men are vulnerable without their prostheses.



he thought she was in bed. bedroom was pitch-black and he heard noises in the bathroom.



the same way the ex-cop did not react naturally when he found out his son was no longer beside him in the living room and someone was coming in through the back. i don't really expect the cop to have his gun in his pocket while watching TV. he must have gone to collect his gun somewhere and yet ignored to check if everyone was safe before confronting the intruder. how is this case different to pistorious and why is his statement consistent with the evidence gathered so far?

Obviously the father could have and should have asked who the intruder was but it is still not as bad as Pistorious.

In the fathers case:

1) The son could have existed the room and gone to his bed. That is a reasonable assumption.

2) The suspect was coming from outside the house at a time he did not expect his son to be outside. Coming from outside aligns to what would most likely happen if an intruder is breaking in.

3) If an intruder is coming in the house, he would not really have the liberty to check for his son's location. It is either the son is in the sitting room, which he was not, or he had gone to bed, which was a reasonable possibility.

Pistorius on the other hand was in a location in the house one would reasonably expect both of them to be in at that time.

He claimed not to have done what would naturally be done by any rational human being:

1) Grap my murrafcking gun.

2) As the intruder is not in the bedroom, warn the loved one next to me to either support me or keep safe.

That is the natural reasonable and rational expectation.

He then proceeded to the only other reasonable place that his girlfriend could be and then fired without seeing anyone or asking any questions.

If Pistorious shot his girl in the bedroom at the foot of the bed or in the doorway, it would make more sense to me and fit more with the father one, because:

1) He would not have the time to check for girlfriend.

2) He can reasonably claim he assumed she was asleep next to him and the figure he saw was an intruder.

Sagamite:
Obviously the father could have and should have asked who the intruder was but it is still not as bad as Pistorious.

In the fathers case:

1) The son could have existed the room and gone to his bed. That is a reasonable assumption.

2) The suspect was coming from outside the house at a time he did not expect his son to be outside. Coming from outside aligns to what would most likely happen if an intruder is breaking in.

3) If an intruder is coming in the house, he would not really have the liberty to check for his son's location. It is either the son is in the sitting room, which he was not, or he had gone to bed, which was a reasonable possibility.

Pistorius on the other hand was in a location in the house one would reasonably expect both of them to be in at that time.

He claimed not to have done what would naturally be done by any rational human being:

1) Grap my murrafcking gun.

2) As the intruder is not in the bedroom, warn the loved one next to me to either support me or keep safe.

That is the natural reasonable and rational expectation.

He then proceeded to the only other reasonable place that his girlfriend could be and then fired without seeing anyone or asking any questions.

If Pistorious shot his girl in the bedroom at the foot of the bed or in the doorway, it would make more sense to me and fit more with the father one, because:

1) He would not have the time to check for girlfriend.

2) He can reasonably claim he assumed she was asleep next to him and the figure he saw was an intruder.

the father is an ex-cop, there was light in the house and he has 2 legs to walk.

pistorious is vulnerable without his prostheses - if he perceives there's an intruder in his apartment, he's more likely to be edgy about the situation than an ex-cop. it's easy for any intruder to take advantage of a disabled athlete than a fully-fit ex cop and he has claimed the room was pitch-dark when he took his gun to confront the intruder.

coogar:

the father is an ex-cop, there was light in the house and he has 2 legs to walk.

pistorious is vulnerable without his prostheses - if he perceives there's an intruder in his apartment, he's more likely to be edgy about the situation than an ex-cop. it's easy for any intruder to take advantage of a disabled athlete than a fully-fit ex cop and he has claimed the room was pitch-dark when he took his gun to confront the intruder.

I am not saying the father is not wrong. He is still wrong.

That said, the report says he was 77 year old and the mental faculty was in decline, so I would not say he was fully fit.

Yes, Pistorious is vulnerable, but I don't think his vulnerability could have impaired him from the natural instincts of checking for his girl as long as the intruder is not in the room.

I actually think his vulberability should be more of a trigger for checking for her because he might need support handling the intruder(s) and, secondly, he is not in a physical position to protect both of them so his vulnerability should have triggered him to wake her up and warn her to save herself even if she cannot back him up.

Sagamite:

I am not saying the father is not wrong. He is still wrong.

That said, the report says he was 77 year old and the mental faculty was in decline, so I would not say he was fully fit.

Yes, Pistorious is vulnerable, but I don't think his vulnerability could have impaired him from the natural instincts of checking for his girl as long as the intruder is not in the room.

I actually think his vulberability should be more of a trigger for checking for her because he might need support handling the intruder(s) and, secondly, he is not in a physical position to protect both of them so his vulnerability should have triggered him to wake her up and warn her to save herself even if she cannot back him up.

his vulnerability is the reason he grabbed his gun. if he had 2 legs and if he's physically fit, he would rely on his physical strength to deal with any intruder and the weapon of choice would be a knife, baseball bat or a plank.

Seriously why is Coogar failing to see that the two cases are quite different and shouldn't be compared? Like seriously.

The boy was coming in from outside and that's where an intruder would most definitely come from, except Oscar is trying to tell us that the intruder got into his house without any noise and then went straight to his bathroom.

If he couldn't hear when the intruder broke in then he should as well have not heard the intruder in the bathroom.

Or is he saying he thought the intruder broke in from the bathroom?

coogar:

his vulnerability is the reason he grabbed his gun. if he had 2 legs and if he's physically fit, he would rely on his physical strength to deal with any intruder and the weapon of choice would be a knife, baseball bat or a plank.

Even without me having vulnerability (apart from my third leg inhibiting my movement ), I would still grab my gun.

IN SOUTH AFRICA?

I would grab my gun BUT I would INSTINCTIVELY be checking for my woman and let her know what is abow ta go'down and she should be ready to run to safety or call for help.

freecocoa: Seriously why is Coogar failing to see that the two cases are quite different and shouldn't be compared? Like seriously.

The boy was coming in from outside and that's where an intruder would most definitely come from, except Oscar is trying to tell us that the intruder got into his house without any noise and then went straight to his bathroom.

If he couldn't hear when the intruder broke in then he should as well have not heard the intruder in the bathroom.

Or is he saying he thought the intruder broke in from the bathroom?

freecocoa, oscar thought someone had gotten into his apartment through the bathroom window. how's it different from a man who thought someone is coming in through the back door? i go beat you o!

Sagamite:
Even without me having vulnerability (apart from my third leg inhibiting my movement ), I would still grab my gun.

IN SOUTH AFRICA?

I would grab my gun BUT I would INSTINCTIVELY be checking for my woman and let her know what is abow ta go'down and she should be ready to run to safety or call for help.

but what would be the motive to kill his girlfriend? how did the girlfriend end up shot in the bathroom? the bladder starts filling up as soon as it's emptied and autopsy report revealed there was no urine at all in her bladder. whether he acted foolishly or not is no longer important - what's now imported is if he shot her intentionally or accodentally. i can concede both oscar and the ex-cop acted foolishly - one must endeavour to see what he's shooting at always.

coogar:

freecocoa, oscar thought someone had gotten into his apartment through the bathroom window. how's it different from a man who thought someone is coming in through the back door? i go beat you o!


but what would be the motive to kill his girlfriend? how did the girlfriend end up shot in the bathroom? the bladder starts filling up as soon as it's emptied and autopsy report revealed there was no urine at all in her bladder. whether he acted foolishly or not is no longer important - what's now imported is if he shot her intentionally or accodentally.

I don't know what his motive is. It shocks me!

One possibility I thought of was that he was high on drugs to the point of being out of his mind but police have not seem to find any drug paraphernelia despite a thorough search that found other things.

I don't know why he has chosen to destroy his good and heroic life.

Everyone likes him and everyone wished this never happened.

Coogar you still owe me a bottle of yogurt o and walai I don tire for this your argument .

So he thought the intruder came to the bathroom door e kwa? And the intruder waited there for him to go get his leg and gun too?

AFTER BECOMING FAMOUS THROUGH THE PARA-OLYMPIC, HE LOVED IT AND WANTED TO REMAIN FAMOUS SO HE HAD TO KILL. WHAT A FAME? NOW HE'S BEING DISCUSSED EVERY SECS, EVERY MINS, EVERY HOUR, EVERY DAY AND WILL BE TALKED ABOUT FOR EVER. EVEN GUINESS BOOK OF RECORD WILL SURELY RECORD THIS.

Sagamite:
I don't know what his motive is. It shocks me!

One possibility I thought of was that he was high on drugs to the point of being out of his mind but police have not seem to find any drug paraphernelia despite a thorough search that found other things.

I don't know why he has chosen to destroy his good and heroic life.

Everyone likes him and everyone wished this never happened.

what was found in his flat that the police claimed was steroids happened to be a herbal remedy. at first, i also thought he was as guilty as cain but then i started following the case and all the earlier claims and allegations were just mere lies or speculations.

the "neighbours" happened not to be neighbours - can you call someone living 1000 feet away from you neighbours? then they brought up the issue of a bloodied baseball bat, autopsy reports showed there was no bruise or any single sign of a physical assault or any struggle.

the more i looked, the less i saw. the only flaw we have against him is the fact that he shot into the bathroom without being sure of what he was shooting at. surely, premeditated murder should have more inconsistencies with pistorious' story. at this point, there's none.

freecocoa: Coogar you still owe me a bottle of yogurt o and walai I don tire for this your argument .

So he thought the intruder came to the bathroom door e kwa? And the intruder waited there for him to go get his leg and gun too?

he thought the intruder came in through the bathroom window(not door). he heard noises in the bathroom and he grabbed his gun and went to confront him. he said he was not with his artificial legs when he shot into the bathroom!

coogar:

what was found in his flat that the police claimed was steroids happened to be a herbal remedy. at first, i also thought he was as guilty as cain but then i started following the case and all the earlier claims and allegations were just mere lies or speculations.

the "neighbours" happened not to be neighbours - can you call someone living 1000 feet away from you neighbours? then they brought up the issue of a bloodied baseball bat, autopsy reports showed there was no bruise or any single sign of a physical assault or any struggle.

the more i looked, the less i saw. the only flaw we have against him is the fact that he shot into the bathroom without being sure of what he was shooting at. surely, premeditated murder should have more inconsistencies with pistorious' story. at this point, there's none.

Yep, the police have been incompetent.

Okay Coogar, he should tell us where he went to grab the gun from, except he sleeps with the gun in the pockets of his pajamas, I don't believe the intruder would still be in the bathroom during the interval of going to grab the gun and coming back to shoot.

He must be an excellent sniper\shooter to have blasted the girl's head from his short height without his legs.

freecocoa: Okay Coogar, he should tell us where he went to grab the gun from, except he sleeps with the gun in the pockets of his pajamas, I don't believe the intruder would still be in the bathroom during the interval of going to grab the gun and coming back to shoot.

He must be an excellent sniper\shooter to have blasted the girl's head from his short height without his legs.

study the above illustration - that's pistorious statement to the police.

If I was prosecuting lawyer, assuming that pictorial is accurate, I would be asking how he intended to carry the fan of that size in.

Why was he not wearing his prosthetic legs to get the fan, it would have been a much easier process that way?

This also contradicts police claim that the trajectory of the shots where of someone standing while he claimed he only wore it after the shots.

Sagamite: If I was prosecuting lawyer, assuming that pictorial is accurate, I would be asking how he intended to carry the fan of that size in.

Why was he not wearing his prosthetic legs to get the fan, it would have been a much easier process that way?

This also contradicts police claim that the trajectory of the shots where of someone standing while he claimed he only wore it after the shots.

nice one!

Sagamite: If I was prosecuting lawyer, assuming that pictorial is accurate, I would be asking how he intended to carry the fan of that size in.

Why was he not wearing his prosthetic legs to get the fan, it would have been a much easier process that way?

This also contradicts police claim that the trajectory of the shots where of someone standing while he claimed he only wore it after the shots.

pistorious is an athlete with a tremendous upper body strength. his disability lies in his lower body. i am sure he can carry or drag that fan across the apartment to his room.

wearing his prostheses and taking it off just to get a fan? sagamite, haba? that would take him the best part of 20 mins - a waste of time when he can hobble on his stumps and complete the task in 2 mins.

the police have already conceded the ballistics were consistent with pistorious version of the event that transpired that night. botha admitted that yesterday in the court.

coogar:

pistorious is an athlete with a tremendous upper body strength. his disability lies in his lower body. i am sure he can carry or drag that fan across the apartment to his room.

wearing his prostheses and taking it off just to get a fan? sagamite, haba? that would take him the best part of 20 mins - a waste of time when he can hobble on his stumps and complete the task in 2 mins.

the police have already conceded the ballistics were consistent with pistorious version of the event that transpired that night. botha admitted that yesterday in the court.

I don't care what kind of superb athlete he is, but to carry a 5ft 4inch, disproportional centre of gravity, metal fan while sitting on your arsse would be pretty much difficult and awkward even if you are Hulk Hogan.

He would save time, noise and discomfort by just slipping in his artificial legs.

Okay, about the Botha stuff. Maybe that is a 'Get out of Jail' from that line of question, otherwise he was nailed!

Hmm Coogar this illustration doesn't even change anything as far as I'm concerned,it even makes it worse.

Inshort eh, let's just wait for the next court session, when is it sef?

Sagamite:

I don't care what kind of superb athlete he is, but to carry a 5ft 4inch, disproportional centre of gravity, metal fan while sitting on your arsse would be pretty much difficult and awkward even if you are Hulk Hogan.

He would save time, noise and discomfort by just slipping in his artificial legs.

Okay, about the Botha stuff. Maybe that is a 'Get out of Jail' from that line of question, otherwise he was nailed!

he can hobble on his stumps, he does not need to drag his arsë on the floor to move the fan.

freecocoa: Hmm Coogar this illustration doesn't even change anything as far as I'm concerned,it even makes it worse.
Inshort eh, let's just wait for the next court session, when is it sef?

court adjourned till tomorrow - decision to have him bailed or not would be made tomorrow.....as things stand, it's most likely he would be bailed. the prosecution has done a useless job so far....

botha(investigating officer) has an attempted murder trial hanging on his neck. it seems the police are working for oscar pistorious cos not even nigerian police are this incompetent!

^Why the hell should botha be the investigating officer with the case against him? Am I missing something here?

freecocoa: ^Why the hell should botha be the investigating officer with the case against him? Am I missing something here?

it beats me silly too........ i used to think the nigerian police force is the worst organisation in the world but trust me, the south african police force take the crown. very incompetent fools, if oscar gets away with murder, it's their fault. botha is a tool - he contaminated the crime scene by walking his cortina shoes into the bathroom before the forensics could do their job. the witness account he was relying on were neighbours staying 1000ft away. why didn't he take the account of the people living next to pistorious to have an accurate story?

everything about the case stinks to high heaven - the police could be working for oscar pistorious!

bookface:

OK.

The point where he went in the direction of the fan to the point he went to get the gun from under the bed on the other side of the bed, he did not notice that the lady is not in bed?

On his way to the bath with the gun, he could not take a second to check behind to see if His woman is safe?

This is really serious o, if that's the case then Oscar will prolly walk free or at most get a very minimal sentence, whatever be the case, may the dead girl RIP.

coogar:

it beats me silly too........ i used to think the nigerian police force is the worst organisation in the world but trust me, the south african police force take the crown. very incompetent fools, if oscar gets away with murder, it's their fault. botha is a tool - he contaminated the crime scene by walking his cortina shoes into the bathroom before the forensics could do their job. the witness account he was relying on were neighbours staying 1000ft away. why didn't he take the account of the people living next to pistorious to have an accurate story?

everything about the case stinks to high heaven - the police could be working for oscar pistorious!

Well any discerning mind will agree that this disabled Pistorious premeditatedly murdered that innocent lady. How could you be very aware that you did not spend the night alone in your house but rather with your girl friend who not only slept in the same room with you but on the same bed and yet refused to check on her first when you heard the purported noise in the bathroom before firing your silly gun.

You did not fire once and listen to what will be the response whether the so called intruder will surrender or exit the house but rather you went ahead to fire four good times to ensure you accomplish your preplanned evil. Was there no light in the bathroom that should have created some caution in your mind or is the amputee telling the wise world that Reeva did not flip on the light on entrance. Yes he thinks she woun`t be there to tell her own version of events but certainly the long arm of the law will catch up with him and send him away for life unless of course the S/A justice system is a true ass.

His lame story is better told to idiots and killers like him.

Hmmm his story though plausible raises some questions for me like people have said already why he didn't check for his girlfriend before embarking on his shooting spree? I mean if I'm in my house alone with my girl and I hear noise in the bathroom I would think first it could be her in there if for argument sake I woke paranoid and thought straight intruder! I would still check for my babe to at least calm my nerves. Again he said it was pitch black not too dark to find his gun yet dark enough he couldn't check for his GF on the same bed. Another point I find a little bit curious is why the bathroom door was locked u are a babe staying overnight alone with your man at his house u get up to use the toilet close the door for privacy but why lock the door what are u trying to avoid him seeing your unclothedness? Whether he killed her delibrately or not he meant serious harm to whoever was in the bathroom without being under serious danger. Coogar I get your points and how plausible it could be but Oscars story still has so many questions than answers

Ayusco has raised another valid point.


Since Oscar said there was no fight or argument between him and his girl before the incident, why would she lock the door of the bathroom?

Why didn't she turn on the bathroom light? Abi him bathroom no get light?

I find it hard to believe that a lady would not turn on the light when going to the loo at night especially since it was pitch dark according to him.

Coogar care to comment?

freecocoa: Ayusco has raised another valid point.


Since Oscar said there was no fight or argument between him and his girl before the incident, why would she lock the door of the bathroom?

Why didn't she turn on the bathroom light? Abi him bathroom no get light?

I find it hard to believe that a lady would not turn on the light when going to the loo at night especially since it was pitch dark according to him.

Coogar care to comment?

I am less concerned about her locking the door. That might be a ritual to some people even if the person is their boyfriend.

But the light on the other hand is a damning thing.

Surely if she went to use the toilet, she would put on the bathroom light. When he got there and saw the bathroom light on, he surely must have thought about his girlfriend that he had not initially checked on?

Abi which intruder comes into a house and switchs on the light?

Worse still, switch on the light and then lock himself in the toilet?

^My brother the matter tire me aswear.
I can't wait to see how this finally plays out.

whether the light was switched off or on has no bearing. pistorious felt vulnerable the moment he perceived there's an intruder in his house. he was paranoid. an armed man suffering from paranoia can be dangerous. the buzz of a mosquito can prompt him to start popping off his gun. pistorious claims he's been getting death threats from strange people lately. as crazy as he sounds, his explanation is logical!

coogar: whether the light was switched off or on has no bearing. pistorious felt vulnerable the moment he perceived there's an intruder in his house. he was paranoid. an armed man suffering from paranoia can be dangerous. the buzz of a mosquito can prompt him to start popping off his gun. pistorious claims he's been getting death threats from strange people lately. as crazy as he sounds, his explanation is logical!

after the first shot, didn't the girl shout or exclaim or something that would indicate she's the one and not an intruder?