ooman:

you know what i believe exists - a flying pig and until you prove that my flying pig does not exist, even though i cant show you, you have no locus standi on which to declare it doesnt exist.

how does that sound like logic to you??

na wa ooo!! am really surprised at your level of intelligence.

Oh gods of my fathers...how can this irreparable blasphemy be corrected? Oya change that thing now now before the flying spaghetti monster smite you with a mighty hammer

striktlymi:

Oh gods of my fathers...how can this irreparable blasphemy be corrected? Oya change that thing now now before the flying spaghetti monster smite you with a mighty hammer

no no, i meant that

Ihedinobi:

So why do you run with the foolish analogy, Don Morron?

I can deal with the pressurized air by letting it out, if I have to. I don't need to get inside the ball itself.

It's up to you now to convince me that God has to subject Himself to time to do anything to history.



Nonsense. I have no question to answer because I have not denied anything, Don Morron. I have onlt demanded that you show me this contradiction that you are insisting on.

Is it possible that you really don't know how omniscience contradicts free will? Or perhaps that there is no contradiction at all, but your atheistic position needs there to be such a contradiction so you need to force me to accept the existence of one?

1) your use of the analogy was wrong. Mine was cool. Humans are outside the pressurised air of the ball just ass you claim that ur god is outside time. Just like humans need to release the pressurised air to do anything inside the leather ball, ur god has to get involved with time if he wants to do stuff in our time filled universe.


Being out of time is meaningless because god would not be able to use logic-modal logic and the sequence of premise and conclusions need time. Your god cant have preceeding and succeeding thoughts. He cant think sequentually like a sentient being.



2) see how the dodger avoided dealing with the issue of judas’s predestination? You are dubious.

-My words shall come to pass
-and he regretted that he had made man
-i know the beginning from the end
-and god rested on the seventh day

And someone claims this same God's always in the present...

You should hang out with Christopher Nolan. Help him make Inception 2.

striktlymi:

Oh gods of my fathers...how can this irreparable blasphemy be corrected? Oya change that thing now now before the flying spaghetti monster smite you with a mighty hammer

Ehn, spaghetti monster doesn't carry hammer. He wields a giant fork...

musKeeto:

Ehn, spaghetti monster doesn't carry hammer. He wields a giant fork...

LWKMD!!!

musKeeto: -My words shall come to pass
-and he regretted that he had made man
-i know the beginning from the end
-and god rested on the seventh day

And someone claims this same God's always in the present...

You should hang out with Christopher Nolan. Help him make Inception 2.

Even the bible says that god is the beginning and the end which denotes time yet we have some silly liars telling us that god exist outside of time. .Where in the bible does it say god exist outside of time?. . .The bible says god is eternal which denotes time(endless time). . .Where does the bible say god exist outside of time?. . .I don't know where these goons get their crazy ideas from. . .God exist outside time, where is it written in the bible?. . .

musKeeto: -My words shall come to pass
-and he regretted that he had made man
-i know the beginning from the end
-and god rested on the seventh day

And someone claims this same God's always in the present...

You should hang out with Christopher Nolan. Help him make Inception 2.

The sarcastic muskeeto strikes again!


#Ihedinobi's timeless god debunked.



Praised be the Spaghetti monster in His igh noodliness!
Ramen

mazaje1:

Even the bible says that god is the beginning and the end which denotes time yet we have some silly liars telling us that god exist outside of time. .Where in the bible does it say god exist outside of time. . .The bible says god is eternal which denotes time(endless time). . .Where does the bible say god exist outside of time?. . .I don't know where these goons get their crazy ideas from. . .God exist outside time, where is it written in the bible?. . .

I cant wait for Ihe's failed response to this. Majaze has hit the nail on the coffin. The bible says one thing about god, the apoloigist claims another

Logicboy03:






I cant wait for Ihe's failed response to this. Majaze has hit the nail on the coffin. The bible says one thing about god, the apoloigist claims another

He keeps going on and on about nothing. . .Firstly the bible NEVER says god exist outside time, that is his own making. . .Bible only says god is the beginning and the end in some places, and that god is everlasting in other places. . .It never says god exist outside time. . .Everlasting and eternal all denote time(un ending time) they are not the same with outside time. . .What does it mean to be outside time?. . .The same god that talks about the future in some parts the bible, eh?. . .Only gods that exist in people's imaginations will allow failures like Ihedinobi to defend their existence. . .

mazaje1:

He keeps going on and on about nothing. . .Firstly the bible NEVER says god exist outside time, that is his own making. . .Bible only says god is the beginning and the end in some places, and that god is everlasting in other places. . .It never says god exist outside time. . .Everlasting and eternal all denote time(un ending time) they are not the same with outside time. . .What does it mean to be outside time?. . .The same god that talks about the future in some parts the bible, eh?. . .Only gods that exist in people's imaginations will allow failures like Ihedinobi to defend their existence. . .

You see, Ihedinobi needs to force the lie about being outside time because of the origin of the universe. Time started with the big bang. God has to be outside time if he created the big bang.


Ihedinobi is trapped between the bible and science....he took a scientific god so he could be in the ring with atheists.....

Logicboy03:



You see, Ihedinobi needs to force the lie about being outside time because of the origin of the universe. Time started with the big bang. God has to be outside time if he created the big bang.


Ihedinobi is trapped between the bible and science....he took a scientific god so he could be in the ring with atheists.....

Only that the bible god did not create the big bangg. . .The bible god created the heaven and the earth together in the beginning, before going on to create the earth with water in it before all the stars and our sun together with the moon on the same day. . .The bible god knows nothing about the big banggg and planetary formation. . .

mazaje1:

Only that the bible god did not create the big bangg. . .The bible god created the heaven and the earth together in the beginning, before going on to create the earth with water in it before all the stars and our sun together with the moon on the same day. . .The bible god knows nothing about the big banggg and planetary formation. . .

of course....for te paologist, there is the bible god and the scientific god. The apologist has to ten choose one and try to minimize te difference but that usuall ends up in an epic fail.


This explains the problem we have here with Ihedinobi claiming that god is outside time

@striktlymi

No vex, I'll get back to your post. Time is the enemy

ooman:

wrong. that is where nature varies from man's intelligent design

Well, nature is God's design

i thought that creation was already "completed". dont forget Gen 2v1 - So the creation of the heavens and the earth and everything in them was COMPLETED.

why then do we have NEW life forms, new land formations called volcanic islands among others if god's creation was actually COMPLETED AND FINISHED according Gen 2v2 NLT.??

The question remains, "could it not have been designed to continue developing and producing new life forms?" Does a creator's work of creation not end when he has finished actualizing a "mechanism" that can go on producing new elements?

you mean that god designed a manner that would cause man's extinction, death, diseases among others. your god must be really evil indeed if he truly exist.

An iddiot's comprehension Weren't you the one who talked about mistakes? Why sound now like the whole system was designed to kill? Are glitches the same as the system itself or failures in the system?

Now, by definition, a designed system operates correctly when certain conditions obtain. When they vary in some way, the system's output varies accordingly. Creation, being a designed system, will only run perfectly if its optimal operating conditions are met.

common sense should tell you that because creation was already finished, new "things" shouldnt be "created" anymore. but we have documented new life forms and understand how they came to be, that they adapted to changing environment and never because they were created from scratch.

Your common sense is only common around willfully dense people. As I have already said, it is not unreasonable that a system continues to produce new elements after its creator has finished producing it if he designed it to do so.

here is your gibberish!



seriously, you really think that the above means something rational??

Sure I do

how did man "break" with god?

By deciding that God was not trustworthy and choosing to fashion his own destiny independent of Him.

when man "broke" with god, what happened? what are the consequences? why should there be consequences?

Well, creation went south. Man was lord of all the material realms so when he rebelled, like any other monarch or ruler, he took his realms with him into rebellion.

As for why consequences exist, our universe runs on cause and effect. If man broke with God, he effectively broke with the power that kept him and his realms going. That would mean that everything that needed that power to maintain itself would start to break down. It's that simple.

perhaps now, we are getting somewhere.

Lol. Are we?

What triggers evolution is the changing environment. such evolution is called adaptive evolution, when organisms adapt to different environment, they evolve differently - called divergent evolution, find a pic below - both moths are actually offspring of same mother which developed in different environment.

when they adapt to the same environment, they evolve similarly, even when at different locations, such is called convergent evolution.

ratio of green house gases is the cause of the environmental change, no room for your god in nature, only in your head does he exist.

So all the above says what exactly? That there was nothing built from scratch from which other things came?

ooman:

your opinion, your right

Right you are. Doesn't change the fact that I'm correct.

because it doesnt work. i missed when you pray and it works. you when we can try that out. i can bring an HIV patient to you and see how that goes.

Nonsense. I don't believe your communications with your parents work. Let's try it out. I can bring a little beggar girl to you and see how that goes.

lazy evasion of the truth by the religious, typical of you. not surprised.

What are you on about here?

ooman doesnt say so. nature says so.

because it is said in the word of god. in the NT where it says the bible is used for "reproof" and other nonsense, you can disprove that by quoting the place.

Nature does? Really? Where?

So what if it says that? How does its saying that mean that God wouldn't refer His kids to other material or persons for understanding?

you asked for which book i recommended for you but which you didnt read. stop prevaricating, will ya?

It's official. Don Morron himself is smarter than you. Go and read what I said and asked again.

olodo, Strong's concordance is a bible dictionary not commentary. why would i need a bible commentary in the first place. I only need a bible dictionary so that lairs like you would not get away with lies when discussing with me.

Fine, it's a dictionary not a commentary. Happy now?

Children! Smh

by denying Strong's input

I denied Strong's input? English must be a terrible language for you. Go ahead and provide evidence of this denial.

ooman:

am sure you dont believe the nonsense you wrote above. you are probable joking.

someone with common sense about the bible god should help this thing out.

Lol. Of course I believe it. Why wouldn't I? And why would I joke about it?

Told you some things are beyond you, didn't I?

ooman:

you know what i believe exists - a flying pig and until you prove that my flying pig does not exist, even though i cant show you, you have no locus standi on which to declare it doesnt exist.

how does that sound like logic to you??

na wa ooo!! am really surprised at your level of intelligence.

It's ok if you're surprised. I think you've been in a cave too long to have experienced human intelligence, real human intelligence before.

Anyway, I can choose to not believe that your flying pig doesn't exisr. That's my affair. But the instant I start claiming that it in faxt does not exist, it becomes my responsibility to prove that it doesn't.

Like I said, simple logic.

Logicboy03:

1) your use of the analogy was wrong. Mine was cool. Humans are outside the pressurised air of the ball just ass you claim that ur god is outside time. Just like humans need to release the pressurised air to do anything inside the leather ball, ur god has to get involved with time if he wants to do stuff in our time filled universe.

Again, nonsense. Time is simply the flow of events, if we are going to get technical. As such, it would correspond to a line running along the equator of the inner surface of the circle as it spins on an axis. Therefore, except I somehow miniaturise myself to walk along that line, I can deflate the ball and turn.it inside out without subjecting myself to that line.

Being out of time is meaningless because god would not be able to use logic-modal logic and the sequence of premise and conclusions need time. Your god cant have preceeding and succeeding thoughts. He cant think sequentually like a sentient being.

Did anyone tell you that He does?

2) see how the dodger avoided dealing with the issue of judas’s predestination? You are dubious.

That's an issue?

musKeeto: -My words shall come to pass
-and he regretted that he had made man
-i know the beginning from the end
-and god rested on the seventh day

And someone claims this same God's always in the present...

You should hang out with Christopher Nolan. Help him make Inception 2.

You just can't help yourself, can you?

Well, if God is outside of time, the past, the present and the future are all one to Him. But we,His audience, are bound by time. How would He speak if He tried to communicate to us other than what you have up there?

Ihedinobi:

You just can't help yourself, can you?

Well, if God is outside of time, the past, the present and the future are all one to Him. But we,His audience, are bound by time. How would He speak if He tried to communicate to us other than what you have up there?

Well, you've already solved that conundrum, havent you? Pity your God couldnt use those same words... Stop putting words in God's mouth. If you have no idea how the Almighty can be omnipresent without impeding our freewill, say so. His ways are not our ways, remember?

What do you call the starter and finisher of a thing or process? Would "author and finisher" do? How about "beginning and end"?

musKeeto:

Well, you've already solved that conundrum, havent you? Pity your God couldnt use those same words... Stop putting words in God's mouth. If you have no idea how the Almighty can be omnipresent without impeding our freewill, say so. His ways are not our ways, remember?

Funny thing about you guys: you want God in the docks but you don't want to hear His answer.

Go ahead and prove that I'm putting words in His mouth. After all, you know the Bible so well, don't you?

Ihedinobi:

Funny thing about you guys: you want God in the docks but you don't want to hear His answer.

Go ahead and prove that I'm putting words in His mouth. After all, you know the Bible so well, don't you?

I have already done that. GOD never says he's outside time. I'm Monday to Sunday.. Simple

Lol, whose answer? GOD'S ANSWER FROM you? Who made you his spokesman? Who else can vouch for you? Your fellow Christians on this forum? I take Obadiah more serious.

musKeeto:

I have already done that. GOD never says he's outside time. I'm Monday to Sunday.. Simple

Lol, whose answer? GOD'S ANSWER FROM you? Who made you his spokesman? Who else can vouch for you? Your fellow Christians on this forum? I take Obadiah more serious.

Oh, sure He does. He says, I AM. Before Abraham, I AM; today, I AM; at the end of time, I AM. He is not subject to time at all.

Why do you answer me then? I don't think I am as prolific as Obadiah to warrant your attention. As for my speaking for Him, well, my siblings and I all have that mandate. If you can't listen to us, you won't listen to Him if He came in person either.

Ihedinobi:

Oh, sure He does. He says, I AM. Before Abraham, I AM; today, I AM; at the end of time, I AM. He is not subject to time at all.

Why do you answer me then? I don't think I am as prolific as Obadiah to warrant your attention. As for my speaking for Him, well, my siblings and I all have that mandate. If you can't listen to us, you won't listen to Him if He came in person either.

Of course. I am. Always there. Never was. So there's no flow of events to Him. Just a single point of inference, from which he can see and foresee and remember. You're making a lot of sense...


God has memories, but no past... Makes a lot of sense... Keep pushing yourself into further grammatical blunders and grand scale delusions. If this makes sense to you, then it's no surprise virgin birth, trinity and the rest of the other crap do.

My day's just begun over here. Got to get to the bus stop. See you later..

musKeeto:
Of course. I am. Always there. Never was. So there's no flow of events to Him. Just a single point of inference, from which he can see and foresee and remember. You're making a lot of sense...


God has memories, but no past... Makes a lot of sense... Keep pushing yourself into further grammatical blunders and grand scale delusions. If this makes sense to you, then it's no surprise virgin birth, trinity and the rest of the other crap do.

My day's just begun over here. Got to get to the bus stop. See you later..

Refer to my analogy with the football. If time is a line running along the inner surface, God Himself is the ball. And that line begins and ends somewhere definite. So He doesn't follow the sequence. All the events are in the present for Him. You don't like that, throw it all in the trash for all I care.

Top of the morning to you too. Hope you have a good day. I'm just being an insomniac tonight.

See you when I see you.

Ihedinobi:

Refer to my analogy with the football. If time is a line running along the inner surface, God Himself is the ball. And that line begins and ends somewhere definite. So He doesn't follow the sequence. All the events are in the present for Him. You don't like that, throw it all in the trash for all I care.

Top of the morning to you too. Hope you have a good day. I'm just being an insomniac tonight.

See you when I see you.

Only that no where does your god say that everything is present to him, he DOES NOT say that, it is your own making and hence your own LIE. . .In the bible we have your god talking about the future and the past. . .Clear evidence that you do not even know what you are talking about. . .One more thing eternal does not mean outside time it just means time that is endless. . .beginning and the end also does not mean outside time, it denotes time. . .You have failed to show how any of them means outside time another lie from you. . .

Ihedinobi:
As for my speaking for Him, well, my siblings and I all have that mandate. If you can't listen to us, you won't listen to Him if He came in person either.

When men were primitive and without much knowledge, your god was said to be all over the place addressing them through public speech, now that men have so much knowledge of their external environment your god ran away, right?. . .Who will listen to all the nonsense you are saying?. . .Which god will sense an incompetent person like you to speak on his behalf with all his attributes?. . . .Only one that doesn't exist. . . .

wiegraf: @striktlymi

No vex, I'll get back to your post. Time is the enemy

Good morning wieg,

No need to apologize, I know about the time factor

striktlymi: e·ter·nal [ih-tur-nl]
adjective
1.
[size=18pt]without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing [/size]( opposed to temporal ): eternal life.
2.
perpetual; ceaseless; endless: eternal quarreling; eternal chatter.
3.
enduring; immutable: eternal principles.
4.
Metaphysics . [size=15pt]existing outside all relations of time;[/size] not subject to change.
noun
5.
something that is eternal.
6.
the Eternal, God.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/eternal

Who is talking about meta physics here?. . . .