Ihedinobi:

"Mistakes" are evidence of a design. There is no such thing as a mistake where there is no perfect design to depart from.

you obviously dont know the magnitude of mistakes in nature. it leads to death and diseases, a total botch and ineptitude of this perfect, absolute, omnipotent designer

what mutations show us is never design but lack of it. mutation is enough proof against the existence of a designer.

man has produced a nonmutable DNA(search for venter's dna) that perfectly codes for protein. such is the work of intelligence. such has never been observed in nature.

ooman:

There is no denying that religion puts you in quietism. The only answer you get is "That is how God made it or God's wish be done".

To really search out the deepest secret of nature, you must do away with God, if not, you would think you are searching for the secret of God.

Lol. No kidding. Our brains are locked up until we let go of God. And this is true because ooman said so. Right

Well, let's see if the Bible does not make its own counter-claims, shall we?

It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter.

Imagine what that means if Christians are royalty.

If there truly is an omnipotent god that speaks the human language and is said to exist in reality and wants people to know him and be in a personal relationship with him because he wants to save them. why will such a god depend on incompetent people like Ihedinobi and their unconvincing arguments to make his case for him?. . .Why will a god depend on incompetent people to make his case for him over some thing he wants?. . .

musKeeto:
Yes, yours does.. a lot.....

Oh, so you decide that you speak the truth when you talk and I talk bull when I speak, mm. Wonderful

And what else used to be mysterious? Space, strange occurrences, rains etc.... We know fire's dangerous cos someone got burnt, not so? Why skip that experience and the lesson?
Hmm, on deeper reflection, maybe it was all God's plan. Maybe Adam and Eve had to go against the warning, so we could learn from their mistakes.. thanks to their curiosity..

Funny, I didn't even set a trap and here you are making my argument for me. Awesome

So, God did not prevent curiosity, rather He inspired it, according to you.

When has "don't play with the matches" ever meant "thou shalt not be curious" to the kid? Or even to the parent? NEVER! It has never meant that at all. But even parents know that if curiosity is not managed, kids could lose their very lives. But if it is not allowed or even ignited by them, kids will learn nothing and not develop.

So let us thank God for putting a mystery in the Garden and for doing His bit in managing our curiosity.

Na so una go dey spin Bible dey go..

Lol. When your ignorance of the Bible is shown, you whine about spinning the Scriptures. So what are you proving with the portion of Scripture you quoted?

Ah, Sir MyFaithIsBuiltOnLogic Christian Theologian... how does 'let us make for ourselves a name' make man God.. When a group of people decide to work under one banner, how do they make themselves God? The reason they built that is clear: to create an identity for themselves -- earlier, we are told they had just migrated -- lest they be scattered across the earth... FEEL FREE TO PUT ON YOUR DANCING SHOES AND KEEP DANCING, though...

Lol. "How do they make themselves God" indeed?

What does it mean to "create an identity for oneself" as you put it?

And what's this "faith is built on logic" business?

How does it support using medical science? If you fall sick, take A (PRAY) not B(seek medical counsel)...

How perfectly ridiculous!

The passage did not say explicitly that the sick may not seek medical help.

You need to show that medical science is mutually exclusive with prayer to even begin to have any kind of case here.

Without medical breakthrough, all madness would still be attributed to demons. Feel free to deny that.

Lol. I don't need to deny it, I just need to ask why you think so. And you may consider yourself asked.

Read my sig. And yeah, I'm sure Yahweh doesn't exist.. 100% convinced..

Sweet for you, buddy. So we may dispense with the agnostic charade, right?

No, no, no.. I do not come her to make a 'nuisance' cos I'm an atheist/agnostic/whatever. My only concern is where the religious leaders in Nigeria seem to be leading the country to. I speak because I'm concerned, you can't preach atheism.

Oh, this is lovely! "You can't preach atheism"! Absolutely! Just make sure you tell logicboy, ooman and yourself that often.

I take it you haven't been through that thread. Your conclusions therefore hold no water whatsoever and should be hidden by the mods.

Like, ehn, what in the world are you talking about? What conclusions?

Of course, those I know would include you..

Actually, I was thinking about you when I said that, but I thought to give you a break. However, what the heck.

Not jealousy, just for FUN. To a few, watching a group of lions argue over if some beef is real beef or corned beef is quite fun.

Ok, you mock them for fun. I hear you. You mock not because there's anything wrong with the answers, but because you think it's fun to mock things you are not part of.

And when we call you slaves, you deny? Why not defend Owerri or Aba? O, God does not live there... neither is He from there..

I think this dude thinks that I'm talking about Palestine

Yeah, Christian blood has been spilt all over this forum. No need to go through all that muck.

Talk is rather cheap, man. I don't flex muscles with y'all, but you guys are terrible at debate.

And how do you know this?

Lol. This is what you warned logicboy about long ago on the thread where we discussed genetics, populations and in.cest to know what type of opponent he faced.

One would think you'd take your own advice and remember that I'm the observant type and the type with a rather good memory.

ooman:

you obviously dont know the magnitude of mistakes in nature. it leads to death and diseases, a total botch and ineptitude of this perfect, absolute, omnipotent designer

what mutations show us is never design but lack of it. mutation is enough proof against the existence of a designer.

man has produced a nonmutable DNA(search for venter's dna) that perfectly codes for protein. such is the work of intelligence. such has never been observed in nature.

It matters little what the consequences of mistakes are and who's responsible for their existence as far as this discussion is concerned.

What matters is that the existence of mistakes is strong evidence, in fact, pretty conclusive evidence for the existence of a design.

So, how is mutation evidence for the absence of a designer?

And since, you mentioned proteins, why do they have to fold in exactly a particular way to be of benefit to the living organism? Also, how does the fact that human beings produced a DNA that codes proteins perfectly prove that there is no design in nature?

Edited.

Ihedinobi:

It matters little what the consequences of mistakes are and who's responsible for their existence as far as this discussion is concerned.

What matters is that the existence of mistakes is strong evidence, in fact, pretty conclusive evidence for the existence of a design.

So, how is mutation evidence for the absence of a designer?

And since, you mentioned proteins, why do they have to fold in exactly a particular way to be of benefit to the living organism? Also, how does the fact that human beings produced a DNA that codes proteins perfectly prove that there is no design in nature?

Edited.

I love this guy, he's got spartacus balls. Lolz,

Ihedinobi:

Oh, so you decide that you speak the truth when you talk and I talk bull when I speak, mm. Wonderful



Funny, I didn't even set a trap and here you are making my argument for me. Awesome

So, God did not prevent curiosity, rather He inspired it, according to you.

When has "don't play with the matches" ever meant "thou shalt not be curious" to the kid? Or even to the parent? NEVER! It has never meant that at all. But even parents know that if curiosity is not managed, kids could lose their very lives. But if it is not allowed or even ignited by them, kids will learn nothing and not develop.

So let us thank God for putting a mystery in the Garden and for doing His bit in managing our curiosity.



Lol. When your ignorance of the Bible is shown, you whine about spinning the Scriptures. So what are you proving with the portion of Scripture you quoted?



Lol. "How do they make themselves God" indeed?

What does it mean to "create an identity for oneself" as you put it?

And what's this "faith is built on logic" business?



How perfectly ridiculous!

The passage did not say explicitly that the sick may not seek medical help.

You need to show that medical science is mutually exclusive with prayer to even begin to have any kind of case here.



Lol. I don't need to deny it, I just need to ask why you think so. And you may consider yourself asked.



Sweet for you, buddy. So we may dispense with the agnostic charade, right?



Oh, this is lovely! "You can't preach atheism"! Absolutely! Just make sure you tell logicboy, ooman and yourself that often.



Like, ehn, what in the world are you talking about? What conclusions?



Actually, I was thinking about you when I said that, but I thought to give you a break. However, what the heck.



Ok, you mock them for fun. I hear you. You mock not because there's anything wrong with the answers, but because you think it's fun to mock things you are not part of.



I think this dude thinks that I'm talking about Palestine



Talk is rather cheap, man. I don't flex muscles with y'all, but you guys are terrible at debate.



Lol. This is what you warned logicboy about long ago on the thread where we discussed genetics, populations and in.cest to know what type of opponent he faced.

One would think you'd take your own advice and remember that I'm the observant type and the type with a rather good memory.

Yawn... It's a never ending roller coaster with you, aint it?

Your initial concerns have been answered though. Feel free to increase your post count. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

Ihedinobi:

Lol. No kidding. Our brains are locked up until we let go of God. And this is true because ooman said so. Right

Well, let's see if the Bible does not make its own counter-claims, shall we?

It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter.

Imagine what that means if Christians are royalty.

you know, one mistake you religious people make is to try to prove something using a perfectly self contradictory book.

bible verse to counter your bible verses include Job 38,39,40,41 where god took advantage of Job's lack of knowledge of nature and asked him all sought of questions he knew he didn't know just for show off. After which Job replied that-i am nothing, how could I ever find answers? in 40v3. The goodnews is that all of god's dumb questions, modern science can now answer.

there is also a verse that says who can search the secrets of god?

And now you are an hypocrite for quoting v2 only without going further. Lets see what v3 of your bible verse says-NO ONE can discover the height of heaven or the depth of the earth......

now you see how v3 immediately contradicts and destroys v2?

bible already says NO ONE so the next thought of the religious was it was futile according to history. But now, we know the height of the heavens and depth of the earth. Evolutionary scientists found that out.

that book of yours is self destructive, it is never useful in any logical debate.

musKeeto:

Yawn... It's a never ending roller coaster with you, aint it?

Your initial concerns have been answered though. Feel free to increase your post count. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

Answered where?

Don't tell me you really expect me to roll over and die when you say so

Ihedinobi:

Answered where?

Don't tell me you really expect me to roll over and die when you say so

I dont. Thats up to the Holy Spirit. Be careful with that fire burning within you

Ihedinobi:

It matters little what the consequences of mistakes are and who's responsible for their existence as far as this discussion is concerned.

What matters is that the existence of mistakes is strong evidence, in fact, pretty conclusive evidence for the existence of a design.

So, how is mutation evidence for the absence of a designer?

And since, you mentioned proteins, why do they have to fold in exactly a particular way to be of benefit to the living organism? Also, how does the fact that human beings produced a DNA that codes proteins perfectly prove that there is no design in nature?

Edited.

you really dont expect me to teach you protein folding right? its not rocket science, not something your feeble mind can understand. what I can tell you now is that chaperones facilitates protein folding. to really understand how protein fold, you must understand chemical bonding.

human beings DO NOT PRODUCE dna that codes for proteins. a cell and its dna are NOT mutually exclusive. dna is the life of a cell, there is no life without dna. cells DO NOT PRODUCE dna, they replicate already present ones. The spontaneous polymerization and spontaneous formation of monomers as observed in the laboratory proves the absence of a designer of life.

mutation - mistakes proves the absence of a designer because such spontaneous mistakes has been observed to produce new species of organism. examples include soapberry bugs, autopolyploids and aneupolyplouds. google those.

the presence of mistakes proves the only things observable in nature- spontaneity and randomness.

creation and intelligent design will be proved if only ONE new species was documented to have its genome built from scratch.

let me ask you, if you think creation and ID is true, of all the documented speciation processes, why have we not been able to document a single genome getting built from scratch? once that is possible, creation and ID will start receiving some attention but right now, there is no single shred of evidence for that.

ooman:

you know, one mistake you religious people make is to try to prove something using a perfectly self contradictory book.

bible verse to counter your bible veruIses include Job 38,39,40,41 where god took advantage of Job's lack of knowledge of nature and asked him all sought of questions he knew he didn't know just for show off. After which Job replied that-i am nothing, how could I ever find answers? in 40v3. The goodnews is that all of god's dumb questions, modern science can now answer.

there is also a verse that says who can search the secrets of god?

And now you are an hypocrite for quoting v2 only without going further. Lets see what v4 of your bible verse says-NO ONE can discover the height of heaven or the depth of the earth......

now you see how v4 immediately contradicts and destroys v2?

bible already says NO ONE so the next thought of the religious was it was futile according to history. But now, we know the height of the heavens and depth of the earth. Evolutionary scientists found that out.

that book of yours is self destructive, it is never useful in any logical debate.

Lol. You guys are really rocking me with laughter today o.

Ok.

1. I was not making an argument, dude. I was showing you what yourself did. You made a claim and expected me to swallow it. And I made a counter-claim and waited to see you swallow it. Apparently, you don't agree with that style of doing things.

2. You've started on a path that you'll whine about in the end like musKeeto. You de form theologian now, when I begin to explain Scriptures, you'll start screaming that I'm spinning Scriptures.

3. Which verse 4 says such a thing? I quoted Proverbs 25:2, let's see what 3 and 4 say, shall we?

3 The heaven for height, and the earth for depth, and the heart of kings is unsearchable.
4 Take away the dross from the silver, and there shall come forth a vessel for the finer.

Where does it say that no one can discover the heights of heaven or the depths of earth?

4. Assuming there was really such a verse, how does an inability to discover all of God's secrets mean that we aren't allowed to be curious about them or anything else?

5. Has science really discovered where the heavens are and what the depths of the earth are to say nothing of calculating their distances?

^^
Why will an all knowing, all powerful god that can do all trhings rely on you to tell ANY one about it since according to the hypothesis he wants to be in a loving relationship with people and save them from eternal damnation?. . .Why should such a entity with its all powerful abilities rely on you to help him propagate his message to people he wants to be in a loving relationship with?

musKeeto:

I dont. Thats up to the Holy Spirit. Be careful with that fire burning within you

Lol. What? It scares you?

Top of the day to you Wieg,

wiegraf:

No no. This is the bit of your post I quote.

Okay! Was scared there for a moment!

wiegraf:
This implies a core prerequisite is that god makes choices for you, and it is not.

Well Wieg, I don't quite agree with the bold. If you hold on to the following comment:

wiegraf:
The only prerequisite, like I stated already, is that the universe be capable of being determined

---

.

then the implication there is that some being has made every decision for us. If someone has already made our decisions then there is no way we can show that the individual did not make our choices too. The word determine can have the following definitions:

de·ter·mine
/diˈtərmin/
Verb
Cause (something) to occur in a particular way.
Firmly decide: "she determined to tackle him the next day"; "he determined on a plan".

which shows clearly that if an individual has determined our future then that individual necessarily decides what we do, which precludes our ability to make our very own choices. If this ability to make choices is not ours then the individual can be said to have made every choice for us which in effect is the same argument I put forth initially.

wiegraf:
To be able to do that there must be only 1 possible future.

The above sounds more like you wanting omniscient to mean an ability to determine someone's future. But you know that does not define omniscient. The fact that someone is omniscient does not mean that the individual determines anyone's future...like I have mentioned before, an ability to see into the future impeccably does not mean an ability to decide that future.

wiegraf:
Or is the omniscient going to say either x or y will happen? That's in now way infallibly omniscient, or is it? This is regardless of what anyone says, does, or thinks, even the omniscient himself.

Nah...that sounds more like TBJ's method of predicting the future . An omniscient being need not do that...it's more like knowing the outcome of every action before the action takes place.

There is an infinite number of choices we can make for every decision making process but the probability of us making one choice at any time (t) is always one i.e. P(t) = 1. This choice we make is already known to this omniscient being before it is made; which really does not undermine the fact that we made the choice irrespective the 'knowledge' of this omniscient being.

wiegraf:
For instance, assuming you somehow had this knowledge of the future and did all you could to change it, you would fail. So would the omniscient as well actually, else he'd be wrong.

Not exactly...if one hypothetically gets a hold of what the future would be and he or she works to change it, that change will definitely occur but the snag there is that the individual has determined another future for himself which the omniscient being knows about.If you have read the story of Nineveh and how they changed their future then you would get a glimpse of what I am talking about.

God does not decide our future for us, he only knows what will happen. No one's future is cast in stone...we have ample opportunity of changing a future that seem almost certain (given a foreknowledge) but this change is already known to the omniscient one.

wiegraf:
Put in another way, if there's only one possible future, where exactly is the choice?

The future is not cast in stone! We all have our choices to make without someone determining it for us.

wiegraf:
Choice would imply more than one possible outcome, no?

As I have explained before, the choices are numerous but the choice we finally settle for is always one at any given time.

wiegraf:
If one had free will, when the time comes, he should be able to take option A or option B.

Everyone has the freedom to go with whatever option he or she wants. No body makes that choice for the individual. Knowing a future is different from determining it. The option we go for is known but the choice made is ours.

wiegraf:
But, so long as the future is set in stone, there is no option B.

There is always an option to every decision we intend to make and no one's future is cast in stone.

wiegraf:
There is just the illusion of an option B as the person cannot take it without voiding omniscience by veering of the already determined path.

No body's path is predetermined!

wiegraf:
That one future must occur, it is already set. This does not require a conscious agent pulling the strings. It is a basic requirement.

Incorrect as I have demonstrated before.

wiegraf:
Again, you're missing the point. The bold is not necessary, he just needs to know the response that will be taken, he need not influence it.

How does knowing someone's response translate to determining that response? I know what will happen tomorrow to Mr. A, is different from I have determined what will happen to Mr. A tomorrow.

wiegraf:
I never said this.

Of course you talked about the future being determined...that you did say!

wiegraf:
You'd be illogical for other reasons, stated above.

You have really not given any reason for your accusation!

wiegraf:
Also, exactly how was knowledge about the future obtained? Hypothetically, of course.

That would be the same as asking why the human brain is located in the head and not the stomach The simple answer is: I don't know

wiegraf:
Oh, okay. But you do get my point with that as well, yes?

I do get the point you have made so far and frankly, looking at it from your perspective, they make sense but the ish is they are incorrect.

Ihedinobi:

Lol. You guys are really rocking me with laughter today o.

Ok.

1. I was not making an argument, dude. I was showing you what yourself did. You made a claim and expected me to swallow it. And I made a counter-claim and waited to see you swallow it. Apparently, you don't agree with that style of doing things.

2. You've started on a path that you'll whine about in the end like musKeeto. You de form theologian now, when I begin to explain Scriptures, you'll start screaming that I'm spinning Scriptures.

3. Which verse 4 says such a thing? I quoted Proverbs 25:2, let's see what 3 and 4 say, shall we?

3 The heaven for height, and the earth for depth, and the heart of kings is unsearchable.
4 Take away the dross from the silver, and there shall come forth a vessel for the finer.

Where does it say that no one can discover the heights of heaven or the depths of earth?

4. Assuming there was really such a verse, how does an inability to discover all of God's secrets mean that we aren't allowed to be curious about them or anything else?

5. Has science really discovered where the heavens are and what the depths of the earth are to say nothing of calculating their distances?

another bible failure in display.

I quoted NLT v3 says-no one can discover the height of heaven, the depth of the earth or all that goes on in the kings mind.
what version did you quote? the IHEDINOBI VERSION?

stop the lies guy.

for your 5. -scientists have really drilled down to the core of the earth and now, we know its composition. doing some reading about that we do you good, dont be intellectually lazy.

and lastly, hope you understand that the heavens in that verse really means sky and astronomical location of planets in its original hebrew term according to Strong's concordance. so dont make the mistake of thinking I refer to the hypothetical, impossible kingdom of your god.

ooman:

you really dont expect me to teach you protein folding right? its not rocket science, not something your feeble mind can understand. what I can tell you now is that chaperones facilitates protein folding. to really understand how protein fold, you must understand chemical bonding.

It's not rocket science but my feeble mind cannot understand it? Yeah, very intelligent speech

Anyway, with half a brain, anyone could have understood that I wasn't asking for a science lesson. But, we all know how you like amusing yourself with scientic-sounding nonsense, so knock yourself out.

When you're done, however, feel free to explain how it is not by design that proteins must fold exactly in some way and not others to be of use to the organism using them.

human beings DO NOT PRODUCE dna that codes for proteins. a cell and its dna are NOT mutually exclusive. dna is the life of a cell, there is no life without dna. cells DO NOT PRODUCE dna, they replicate already present ones. The spontaneous polymerization and spontaneous formation of monomers as observed in the laboratory proves the absence of a designer of life.

What is this gibberish about? You said that man has produced a non-mutable dna that codes proteins perfectly, did you not? I'm asking you how that proves that there is no design in nature. Attempt to do your explanation in.clear English or else by reason of the fallacy of appeal to science, I believe it's called, I will assume that you have no answer to my demand.

mutation - mistakes proves the absence of a designer because such spontaneous mistakes has been observed to produce new species of organism. examples include soapberry bugs, autopolyploids and aneupolyplouds. google those.

the presence of mistakes proves the only things observable in nature- spontaneity and randomness.

Dude, which are you saying - that there are mistakes in nature which produce certain consequences or that there are no such things as mistakes, rather that there are random and spontaneous events in nature that result in yada yada bla bla?

creation and intelligent design will be proved if only ONE new species was documented to have its genome built from scratch.

Explain. And don't talk gibberish.

let me ask you, if you think creation and ID is true, of all the documented speciation processes, why have we not been able to document a single genome getting built from scratch? once that is possible, creation and ID will start receiving some attention but right now, there is no single shred of evidence for that.

See above.

Is Ihedinobi the new Kent Hovind?. . .

ooman:

another bible failure in display.

I quoted NLT v3 says-no one can discover the height of heaven, the depth of the earth or all that goes on in the kings mind.
what version did you quote? the IHEDINOBI VERSION?

stop the lies guy.

Lol. I'm lying? I used the King James Version. I believe you've heard of it. Anyway, I see the NLT does indeed say that.

Edit: however, how does inability to comprehend things preclude curiosity about those things? That is, does the fact I don't understand astrophysics prevent me from being curious about it?

for your 5. -scientists have really drilled down to the core of the earth and now, we know its composition. doing some reading about that we do you good, dont be intellectually lazy.

How did you decide that the depths of the earth is the same as the earth's core?

and lastly, hope you understand that the heavens in that verse really means sky and astronomical location of planets in its original hebrew term according to Strong's concordance. so dont make the mistake of thinking I refer to the hypothetical, impossible kingdom of your god.

Why do you appeal to Strong's for the meaning of which heavens were being refered to there?

mazaje: Is Ihedinobi the new Kent Hovind?. . .

And why's he ignoring you? Lol

mazaje: Is Ihedinobi the new Kent Hovind?. . .

Who's that?

Ihedinobi:

Who's that?

Your mentor. . .You argue just like him. . .Again I repeat. . . Why will an all knowing, all powerful god that can do all things rely on you to tell ANY one about it since according to the hypothesis he wants to be in a loving relationship with people and save them from eternal damnation?. . .Why should such a entity with its all powerful abilities rely on you to help him propagate and defend his message to people he wants to be in a loving relationship with?

Rossikk: CAN YOU COLONIZED PEOPLE PLEASE STOP TARNISHING THE IMAGE OF THE CREATOR BASED ON THE GARBAGE YOU READ IN THE JEWISH BIBLE AND THE KORAN, OR WHATEVER OTHER IMPORTED CRAPSTICKS THAT HAS TURNED YOUR HEADS?


Don't blame GOD for your dilemma. Blame your own STUPIDITY, THOUGHTLESSNESS, AND GULLIBILITY, in ACCEPTING AT FACE VALUE the accounts of these IMPORTED FAITHS regarding what 'God' supposedly did and didn't do, said and didn't say.

Did your ancestors not believe in God?

OF COURSE THEY DID.

Did they invent stories about God supposedly appearing to them, sending ''his son'', and his ''prophets'', 'Garden of Eden'. 'Adam and Eve temptation' 'hellfire' and all such GARBAGE?

NO!

Who taught you those things that ''GOD'' supposedly did?

FOREIGNERS FROM THOUSANDS OF MILES AWAY.

Their stories have NOTHING to do with the African experience and conceptualization of GOD.

As far as OUR ancestors were concerned, GOD is ALOOF from human affairs.

He is FAR TOO MIGHTY to be involved directly in human affairs.

Hence, the importance of ancestors, guardian spirits, deities (powerful spirits), who play the role of INTERMEDIARIES between us and God.

According to AFRICAN RELIGION, Human life is just a brief journey. After our journey, each of us RETURNS to the realms of spirits, OUR TRUE HOME from where we came. No conditions. No need to convert to any faith. No need to abide by any creed. WE ALL TRANSIT TO OUR TRUE HOME UPON PASSING, JUST AS NATURALLY AS WE TRANSITED HERE AT BIRTH WITH NO PRE-CONDITIONS.. Death is only a TRANSITION BACK to our state of spirit BLISS. WE LIVE FOREVER.

FINISH!

No 'ten commandments', No 'Jesus'. No 'Mary'. No 'Elijah'. No ''chosen people''. No Adam. No Eve and Snake, No 'Miracles'. No STORIES. You cannot have a story about GOD. Any story that claims to be about God or relating to God, is 100000% FALSE.

Whoever the Jews claim to have encountered in their book - whoever he is or was - is NOT God the Creator. Maybe he was their tribal god or even some alien entity. BUT IT WAS NOT GOD.

How can you say that God has a set of ''chosen people'', feels 'jealousy', demands worship? Orders ra.pe and mass murder? All claims by foreign books of indeterminate origin. WHY should you believe them?

WHY?

If God did not appear to OUR ANCESTORS, HE DID NOT APPEAR TO ANYONE ELSE'S ANCESTORS EITHER, and ANYONE who asks you to believe he did is LYING TO YOU AND MANIPULATING YOU TO ELEVATE HIS OWN HERITAGE, HISTORY AND CULTURE OVER YOURS.

SIMPLE, STRAIGHTFORWARD, NO DEBATE. NO ARGUMENT.

So the SOLUTION to your dilemma is VERY SIMPLE.

Instead of coming here to INSULT the Creator due to the contradictions of your foreign imported beliefs -

Return to the way your ANCESTORS - the world's first religious people - whom you've totally abandoned and scorn - RETURN TO THEIR CONCEPTUALIZATION OF GOD. REVITALISE IT. MODERNISE IT. AND EMBRACE IT.

AND YOUR DILEMMA WILL END INSTANTLY.

wow... that was deep, am i the only one who saw this?

Rossikk:If God did not appear to OUR ANCESTORS, HE DID NOT APPEAR TO ANYONE ELSE'S ANCESTORS EITHER, and ANYONE who asks you to believe he did is LYING TO YOU AND MANIPULATING YOU TO ELEVATE HIS OWN HERITAGE, HISTORY AND CULTURE OVER YOURS.

SIMPLE, STRAIGHTFORWARD, NO DEBATE. NO ARGUMENT.

Any other person that says other wise remains a liar. . .Period. . .

Ihedinobi:

It's not rocket science but my feeble mind cannot understand it? Yeah, very intelligent speech

When you're done, however, feel free to explain how it is not by design that proteins must fold exactly in some way and not others to be of use to the organism using them.

that is called primary structure, as determined by DNA templates.

Science knowledge of people in nairaland is very low. I understand why you all languish in religion.

Ihedinobi: What is this gibberish about? You said that man has produced a non-mutable dna that codes proteins perfectly, did you not? I'm asking you how that proves that there is no design in nature. Attempt to do your explanation in.clear English or else by reason of the fallacy of appeal to science, I believe it's called, I will assume that you have no answer to my demand.

do we really have to go cycle. Mutations prove lack of ID'ner. how many times will i tell you that.
by the bold do you mean science is too much for you? then you and i cannot have this discussion.

Ihedinobi: Dude, which are you saying - that there are mistakes in nature which produce certain consequences or that there are no such things as mistakes, rather that there are random and spontaneous events in nature that result in yada yada bla bla?

dang, you are quite low intellectually to connect that spontaneity and randomness means that intelligence does not control nature but such process as mutations?

call your father in intelligence davidylan, perhaps then, we will make some progress.

Ihedinobi: Explain. And don't talk gibberish.

See above.

never mind, i made a grave mistake thinking that what you argue are within your ken. what is there to explain in that??

When ever someone with some level of intelligence comes around, i will resume this argument.

Ihedinobi:

Lol. I'm lying? I used the King James Version. I believe you've heard of it. Anyway, I see the NLT does indeed say that.

two versions of the same book self contradicts each other so much and you still think that such book is credible enough to teach you history of the world. You are quite disappointing intellectually!

Ihedinobi: Edit: however, how does inability to comprehend things preclude curiosity about those things? That is, does the fact I don't understand astrophysics prevent me from being curious about it?

being curious about it means reading and researching about it, never denying facts and holding on to ancient myths

Ihedinobi: How did you decide that the depths of the earth is the same as the earth's core?

you need someone to tell you that depth means the distance from top or surface to the bottom of something?

Ihedinobi: Why do you appeal to Strong's for the meaning of which heavens were being refered to there?

because Strong's expose the stup.id.ity of the bible in its original language

frank3.16:


wow... that was deep, am i the only one who saw this?

I did too. How you dey btw?

ooman: you need someone to tell you that depth means the distance from top or surface to the bottom of something?

That's why I said that he is the new Kent Hovind. .

musKeeto:
I did too. How you dey btw?

its not been easyoooo, in fact that event has changed me completely, its like watching a movies. well, i still live in denial, cos the real world is becoming scary. my will to live is now on a shaky ground, bt i will definately get through it. thanks.

i am glad u noticed that, thought i was the only one, i will have to read it over and over again.

i can see the house is tooo hot, make i go watch mancity chealsea (the way i get things off my mind), i will b back to read on.

Arguments!! No one is ever willing to concede defeat. Carry on defenders and attackers, nothing do una jhor.

frank3.16:


its not been easyoooo, in fact that event has changed me completely, its like watching a movies. well, i still live in denial, cos the real world is becoming scary. my will to live is now on a shaky ground, bt i will definately get through it. thanks.

i am glad u noticed that, thought i was the only one, i will have to read it over and over again.

i can see the house is tooo hot, make i go watch mancity chealsea (the way i get things off my mind), i will b back to read on.

Men, I understand. Lost my siblings sometime back. Go to my stickied thread on this section - best religion forum threads. There are a few threads there that could really help you..

Pls no even reason suicide.. Abeg o.. For the sake of your family..

inspiredbyGOD:.:
Arguments!! No one is ever willing to concede defeat. Carry on defenders and attackers, nothing do una jhor.

oh boy, everybody na goalkeeper, midfielder. Even when person score goal, dem go say the ball dey offside... Hahah