^^^ you think not taking you seriously means lack of answer. well, you are deluded. nothing you have said disproves evolution, on the other hand, it disproves god.

nothing comes from nothing. god cannot exist according to you.

ooman: ^^^ you think not taking you seriously means lack of answer. well, you are deluded. nothing you have said disproves evolution, on the other hand, it disproves god.

nothing comes from nothing. god cannot exist according to you.

@redcolor, if all what I've said didn't disprove evolution, philosophies of materialism (atheist, humanist, evolutionist) get their presupposition from materials; everything in nature evolve from materials INFORMATION (spirit) never included. Then once INFORMATION can be trace and find its place in nature, what materialism meant for?

Absolutely, nothing comes from nothing. But thanks be to God and to His glory for He reigns forever because God is a SPIRIT not NOTHING and He controls NOTHING that's why the whole universe including the person reading this post came into existence.

Emusan:

@redcolor, if all what I've said didn't disprove evolution, philosophies of materialism (atheist, humanist, evolutionist) get their presupposition from materials; everything in nature evolve from materials INFORMATION (spirit) never included. Then once INFORMATION can be trace and find its place in nature, what materialism meant for?

Absolutely, nothing comes from nothing. But thanks be to God and to His glory for He reigns forever because God is a SPIRIT not NOTHING and He controls NOTHING that's why the whole universe including the person reading this post came into existence.

how can the bold make sense to you.

you say nothing comes from nothing then you say god made you from nothing? dont you see the contradiction? you see why I dont take you seriously?

once again I ask, what is the information in NaCl?

ooman:

how can the bold make sense to you.

you say nothing comes from nothing then you say god made you from nothing? dont you see the contradiction? you see why I dont take you seriously?

once again I ask, what is the information in NaCl?

Not that I don't want to reply you but discussing this topic with you is far beyond your comprehension because no scientist being atheist or creationist ever disprove information.

Yes I said it, He made everything out of nothing (including you & I) because He has power over nothing.

About your question ask yourself, does it contain four attributes of infromation mention earlier?
If your answer is yes i will explain, if no 'no reply'.

Emusan:

Not that I don't want to reply you but discussing this topic with you is far beyond your comprehension because no scientist being atheist or creationist ever disprove information.

Yes I said it, He made everything out of nothing (including you & I) because He has power over nothing.

About your question ask yourself, does it contain four attributes of infromation mention earlier?
If your answer is yes i will explain, if no 'no reply'.

keep deluding yourself! where did I deny information? even though you have mixed everything up, using human definition to define information in nature, I still played along because I find you amusing!

You are right. your god has power over nothing because he is nothing.

why dont you answer your question yourself and then explain since you are the genius here.

ooman:

keep deluding yourself! where did I deny information? even though you have mixed everything up, using human definition to define information in nature, I still played along because I find you amusing!

You are right. your god has power over nothing because he is nothing.

why dont you answer your question yourself and then explain since you are the genius here.

Your new discovary word 'delude' everything to you is delude.

Anyway you didn't get me right I said "No scientist ever say INFORMATION didn't exist" reread my post again.

Once you agree with information then you're not an atheist because informations are nonmaterial.

Haven't you heard that DNA code's are moreallelse like human's code.

Emusan: The first law of thermodynamics makes it clear that mass and energy (matter) can neither be created nor destroyed. All mass and energy in the universe is being conserved (the total sum is constant). However, someone can write a new complicated formula on a white board and then erase the formula. This is a case of creating and destroying information.
Since the first law of thermodynamics states that mass and energy (matter) cannot be created or destroyed, and information (UDI) can be created and destroyed, information (UDI) must be nonmaterial.
The genetic information system is the software of life and, like the symbols in a computer, is purely symbolic and independent of its environment. Of course, the genetic message, when expressed as a sequence of symbols, is nonmaterial but mustbe recorded in matter and energy.

If we apply these laws governing UDI to DNA information, we can make logically sound arguments (conclusions).
1. Since the DNA code of all life-forms is clearly within the UDI definition domain of information, we conclude there must be a sender (LI 1, 2).
2. Since the density and complexity of the DNA encoded information is billions of times greater than man’s present technology, we conclude the sender must be supremely intelligent (LI 2, plus corollaries).
3. Since the sender must have
*. encoded (stored) the information into the DNA molecules
*. constructed the molecular biomachines required for the encoding, decoding, and synthesizing processes
*. designed all the features for the original life-forms
we conclude the sender must be purposefuland supremely powerful (LM 1, plus corollary).
4. Since information is a nonmaterial fundamental entity and cannot originate from purely material quantities, we conclude the sender must have a nonmaterial component (Spirit). God is Spirit (FL1, 2; LI 2, plus corollaries)!
5. Since information is a nonmaterial fundamental entity and cannot originate from purely material quantities, and since information also originates from man, we conclude man’s nature must have a nonmaterial component (spirit). Man has a spirit (FL 1, 2; LI 2, plus corollaries)!
6. Since information is nonmaterial and the third fundamental entity, we conclude that the assumption “the universe is composed solely of mass and energy” is false (FL 1, 2).
The philosophy of materialism is false!
7. Since all theories of chemical and biological evolution require that information must originate solely from mass and energy alone (no sender), we conclude all theoriesof chemical and biological evolution are false

I don't understand why you'd believe all information are Commands. That's the major flaw in your "grandeur" OP

Kay 17:
I don't understand why you'd believe all information are Commands. That's the major flaw in your "grandeur" OP

Once you find it comply with four attributes of UDI it's a command mr man. Because the third attribute (Expected action) make it clear, you might not need it at that particular time but it's there for a purpose.

And try to visit the LINK too.

Emusan:

Nice logic indeed! But remember windows OS informations can be trace back to Bill Gate. So informations of nature can be trace back to who?

Hi Emusan, did you get my pm?

OLAADEGBU:

Hi Emusan, did you get my pm?

Hi OLAADEGBU,
Yes, I'm so sorry I haven't checked it. I will reply immediately I check it.

Emusan:

Once you find it comply with four attributes of UDI it's a command mr man. Because the third attribute (Expected action) make it clear, you might not need it at that particular time but it's there for a purpose.

And try to visit the LINK too.

I love Yvonne is information, betrays a particular knowledge. However it is not a command. Neither are weather reports nor rain measurements.

Kay 17:

I love Yvonne is information, betrays a particular knowledge. However it is not a command. Neither are weather reports nor rain measurements.

Hope you understand what you read in the post about four attributes of information.

For your own good and clear understanding information can not be find in every object.

Try to read more about information on that link.

^^
I'm saying that your information definition is deficient, when information we intuitively understand as information is not included in the definition. How is your name a command?! Yet it is information.

Kay 17: ^^
I'm saying that your information definition is deficient, when information we intuitively understand as information is not included in the definition. How is your name a command?! Yet it is information.

Who am I to give information a definition. Definetely you didn't read the link and read some comment on this post. According to Universal Definition of Information (UDI) object must find within these four attribute before being called information.
*code
*meaning
*expected action
*intended purpose

your name just gives a description about you or give you a meaning, so if anything lack one out of these four attribubes is not regard as information. By UDI

Information can be compare to software it can be created and destroyed that's what make it immaterials and it has been corfirmed that all living things carried information in their gene. So nature doesn't consist only matters (mass & energy) but also informations (spirit).

That's why human being has a spirit.

First Law of Information (LI1)
Information cannot originate in statisticalprocesses. (Chance plus time cannot create information no matter how many chances or how much time is available.

I believe you'll understand better now.

^^^
You're being asked a question and you're all 'you don't understand'. Do we look like im.beciles? Your pseudoscientific nonsense, explain it rather than copy/paste without elaborating. You did eventually attempt though, kudos for that.

Emusan: Read through before you place any comment don't just scan/skim through.

For Darwinian (molecules-to-man) evolution to actually work, new genetic information is required each step of the way. In order for a fish to grow legs, new information must be encoded into the DNA. For a reptile to grow feathers, new information must be encoded into the DNA. For an apelike creature to evolve into a human, new information must be encoded into the DNA. This new information must add to or replace old information with new instructions to grow legs, or feathers, or human characteristics. But what is information and where does it come from?

Foundation for materialism (atheism, humanism, evolution) is that the universe consists of only two entities "mass and energy". Therefore, if a third entity can be shown to exist, then materialism and all philosophies based on it must also be false. Information is this third fundamental entity.

The bolded is already...waaaayyyyy off. Enough to make just about capable of thinking straight ignore the rest. Exactly how are humanism, atheism, perhaps even evolution, based on materialism? And even if that were true, if you found another component, that suddenly makes philosophies built around materialism false? Because? Materialism suddenly stops to exist because you found other components?

And if you're conveniently reducing everything in the universe to two entities, "mass and energy" (the quotes in this context are ridiculously silly btw), then it should be one entity. Mass and energy are the same.

wiegraf: ^^^
You're being asked a question and you're all 'you don't understand'. Do we look like im.beciles? Your pseudoscientific nonsense, explain it rather than copy/paste without elaborating. You did eventually attempt though, kudos for that.

What is the question and who asked the question?

I hope you start the reading from beginning?

wiegraf:

Enough to make just about capable of thinking straight ignore the rest. Exactly how are humanism, atheism, perhaps even evolution, based on materialism? And even if that were true, if you found another component, that suddenly makes philosophies built around materialism false? Because? Materialism suddenly stops to exist because you found other components?

@redcolor, because their believe base on matters only nothing like Spirit. Or do you believe in spirit?

@bolded, I never said material cease to exist because INFORMATION has been confirmed. The new recent addition of INFORMATION made us known that nature did not made up of matters only, get the clue. Once information is immaterials and informations can only come from intelligent source, and information can be created and destroyed, and information is not part of any materials to carry it out it means information is SPIRIT just like software.

And if you're conveniently reducing everything in the universe to two entities, "mass and energy" (the quotes in this context are ridiculously silly btw), then it should be one entity. Mass and energy are the same.

Another dimension from atheist "mass and energy are the same"
see their definition:
MASS:-A coherent, typically large body of matter with no definite shape. Meaning it can be touch and feel.

ENERGY:-Energy is defined as the ability or the capacity to do work. We use energy to do work and make all movements.

Are they the same?

MATTERs is the one comprises both mass and energy. And the word 'material' was derived from the word matter, that's why anything in connection with SPIRIT(s) is a poison to atheism, humanism, evolutionism. We can see on this forum how you people fought againt money ritual, juju, body-proof juju e.t.c

So we have three foundamental entities that nature made off they are:

*mass(physical)
*energy(force)
*information(Spirit)

^^
This is sad. You mean to tell us, that mathematical truths such as 1+1 = 2 is not just spiritual but was created?

Kay 17: ^^
This is sad. You mean to tell us, that mathematical truths such as 1+1 = 2 is not just spiritual but was created?

Listen to yourself, 1+1=2

It's a human's code that has meaning for expected action to carry out intended purpose.

You can see it complies with four attributes of foundamental entity of information.

Go and search more about DNA code it's moreallelse human's code and it is found within these four attributes of information.

I know your level in science is still in internet and textbook, people that are greater and achieve much in science are still battling with information. Meaning no scientist neither atheist nor creationist has ever disprove INFORMATION so information is the third entity of nature after mass & energy.

Kay 17: ^^
This is sad. You mean to tell us, that mathematical truths such as 1+1 = 2 is not just spiritual but was created?

For more explanation, all information can be trace back to an intelligent soucre, then the informations in living DNA can be trace back to who? Disprove molecule-to-life.

Again information can not be generate from a purely materials meaning matters can not produce information.

Also, Information can not be generate in a statistical processes meaning no amount of time and chance given that can generate a meaningful information. Disprove nature happened by CHANCE.

^^^
Sheesh, op. No need to get so testy. I get it, software is SPIRIT





Also, you have no idea as to what humanism and atheism are....


When you want to figure out who's more powerful, satan, spiderman or the holy spirit, then by all means, please, get your info from an xtian site. When you actually want to learn something real, scientific and of value, please don't go anywhere near an xtian site. To picture how silly it looks, consider BH leaders still think the world is flat....

wiegraf: ^^^
Sheesh, op. No need to get so testy. I get it, software is SPIRIT

God will help you, I said in human it is SPIRIT in computer it's software one can compare them. Software is not part of the physical hareware you can create and destroy software. It's like the man that scarter radio to find what is talking inside but discover that nobody is there talking.

Software is human's code written from intelligent socure and can be trace back to whosoever wrote it. So is an information.

Also, you have no idea as to what humanism and atheism are....

Is it not what ooman use in his signature?

Beside, atheism, humanism e.t.c derived their stand in materialism believing in matter alone. You can see my respond to that with kay 17.

When you want to figure out who's more powerful, satan, spiderman or the holy spirit, then by all means, please, get your info from an xtian site. When you actually want to learn something real, scientific and of value, please don't go anywhere near an xtian site. To picture how silly it looks, consider BH leaders still think the world is flat....

Yes I will which I'm also doing.
Because Christians will never curb anything just to provide a fact.

Imagine a statement like this "scientist observe, modify, and tested their laws before being approved and their laws never contradicted" I found this on Christian site. But atheists do always say Bible contradict itself.

So I love it

@Emusan, This is good information about information being the third part after mass and energy, i truly enjoyed the flow of your ideas to show how God is the unseen information in the whole structure of what we know...

kudos to your thought out presentation.

hisblud: @Emusan, This is good information about information being the third part after mass and energy, i truly enjoyed the flow of your ideas to show how God is the unseen information in the whole structure of what we know...

kudos to your thought out presentation.

My Brother, it's God and let all glory be unto Him alone. God will not allow darkness to prevail kudos to creation scientist and informations scientist their the one who made us to understand that nature does not contain matters alone (mass & energy) as atheist do claim but with information which has been discovered in all living gene according to the post and various comment. Thanks sir!

Emusan:

God will help you, I said in human it is SPIRIT in computer it's software one can compare them. Software is not part of the physical hareware you can create and destroy software. It's like the man that scarter radio to find what is talking inside but discover that nobody is there talking.

Software is human's code written from intelligent socure and can be trace back to whosoever wrote it. So is an information.

So, why is it SPIRIT in humans, yet software in machines? Because you say so? Are they not the same thing, in your words, "information"

Can you or can you not create software? Or is it only discovered?

Can software exist without hardware?

If your god is SPIRIT, and SPIRIT requires intelligence, then which SPIRIT wrote designed your god?

Emusan:
Is it not what ooman use in his signature?

Beside, atheism, humanism e.t.c derived their stand in materialism believing in matter alone. You can see my respond to that with kay 17.

You don't know what atheism and humanism are. And again, even if you stumbled into the world of abstract and ideas and somehow quantified it, in what way does that invalidate other philosophies?

Everything in this universe is energy. Every.single.thing. Read up on fields, bosons, etc. Or do tell, what happens to the mass in matter after matter is converted energy?

Abstract concepts are different, which is what you're trying to talk about under the pseudo-scientific nonsense. But they are perhaps, peculiar...

Emusan:
Yes I will which I'm also doing.
Because Christians will never curb anything just to provide a fact.

Imagine a statement like this "scientist observe, modify, and tested their laws before being approved and their laws never contradicted" I found this on Christian site. But atheists do always say Bible contradict itself.

So I love it

So it's a fact that talking snakes, man living in whale, and a racist god (who had never come across iron on a battlefield) existed here less than 6000 years ago? It's also a fact that illogical nonsense like omniscience and omnipotency exist? Look up the meaning of the word fact, it's a common word so ignorance is not an excuse.

Don't get me wrong, indulge yourself, no one's forcing you (or even capable of doing so). This board is called 'religion', so this is where you're supposed to discuss these things. But if you call out atheists with this nonsense, as proof of god/SPIRIT, of course you're going to get ridiculed. Deservedly so, keep your nonsense to yourselves. For instance, the bold is another particularly foolish thing to say, something I'd expect to hear only from someone in primary school.

This your ground breaking research, why is it only available on your xtian site? Even other xtians keep away from it, can you guess why?

wiegraf:

So, why is it SPIRIT in humans, yet software in machines? Because you say so? They are not the same thing, in your words, "information"

Yes I said it. But why simple english is so difficult for you to understand? Did I use grammar in my post?

Get the clue once again, SOFTWARE is an information generated by intelligent source "human being" is already in your body(mass & energy) all you just need to do is to make it seen by writing it down and it works with physical machine. Because it is human code that has meaning, so they name it SOFTWARE try to check the definition of software and see.

*Note: information can only come from intelligent source/sender like human being and it has been discovered that the most complex and meaningful code has ever come from human.

See where you got it wrong, human's DNA is responsible for LIFE and it has also been comfirmed that they carry code billions times bigger than any present code this generation has ever generated. Then ask yourself who wrote those code? So human informations are called software gene (spirit) because they dont know how it came into an existence. Remember all information can be trace back to an intelligent source/sender.

Can you or can you not create software? Or is it only discovered?
Can software exist without hardware?

It has been answered.

If your god is SPIRIT, and SPIRIT requires intelligence, then which SPIRIT wrote designed your god?

This's the most logical & intelligent question ever asked on this thread. But here are your answers, the major argument here or anywhere in the world is that nature exist and how it came into and existence? 1) some says it happened by chance, 2) some says a supernatural force responsible for it, 3) and some says a SPIRIT (GOD) exist that cause the causes. Definitely one option must correct. The question now is, how individuals arrive at their final claim? The race begins, number 1) said at a point of sigularity for unknown reason something begins to expand causes our universe. Number 2) said somebody was coming with a chain from above and spread the universe. Number 3) said a SPIRIT (God) spoke and universe was made through His word.
*NOTE: there are many claims about the formation of the universe but I just give these three example.
Another question arise here, what support individual claim?
Again, Number 1) said nature consists of only matters (mass and energy) nothing like SPIRIT. Number 2) said through metaphysics everything was revealed. And Number 3) said the same SPIRIT reveal itself to some peoples through revelations and inspiration and everything was written down. Then we left with no conclusion because can we say individuals were wrong? No! But fact and prove hold the truth.

Now what hold the major fact is "INFORMATION". In 2006, Dr. Werner Gitt an information scientist for both human and machine language propose definition for information with other scientist and reach an agreement to be called Universal Definition of Information, UDI. Then UDI contains four attributes which I have explained. Then anything outside or lack one of these attributes is not regard as INFORMATION. Let me just quote some laws about information but I won't explain it, though they're more than these.
1) Purely materials can't generate information
2) All informations require a sender or must have an intelligent source/sender
3) Informations can't be generate through a statistical processes

One of the matters that made up earth is living thing i.e human being, with latest research it has been discovered that human's cells & DNA carry informations that resemble human code and find its way complied with four attributes of UDI. So for birds to stop flying, it needs a new informations in its DNA, for human to evolve from apelike need a set of information into its DNA e.t.c

Now that human being carried an information in its DNA, let ask ourselves these questions base on the quoted laws above.
*Since human has information in its DNA, who wrote those information? since all information can be trace back to an intelligent source/sender, L2
*How come human has information since information can't be generate from purely matters? L1
*If nature happen by CHANCE, how come human carry information? Since no amount of time and chance that can generate meaningful informations.

[/]Out of the assumption about formation of the universe through my explanation, which one do you think is most likely correct?[/b]

Just type your answer don't quote me.

I will reply the rest tomorrow.

Good moring wiegraf!

wiegraf:
You don't know what atheism and humanism are. And again, even if you stumbled into the world of abstract and ideas and somehow quantified it, in what way does that invalidate other philosophies?

Why prolonging matter, I don't know what atheist is and you that know it, why can't you explain?
Afterall you can see many definitions and quoted laws from me.

Everything in this universe is energy. Every.single.thing. Read up on fields, bosons, etc. Or do tell, what happens to the mass in matter after matter is converted energy?

You're still argueing about this. Is information an energy?

[b]Let me cite this example, the Physical feature of a computer is HARDWARE(mass), Battery is the source of energy, SOFTWARE is the information. If you remove the battery does that erase the software? Meaning information can stand or exist without energy.

Abstract concepts are different, which is what you're trying to talk about under the pseudo-scientific nonsense. But they are perhaps, peculiar...

But you can fathon some truth from this pseudo-science of mine.

So it's a fact that talking snakes, man living in whale, and a racist god (who had never come across iron on a battlefield) existed here less than 6000 years ago? It's also a fact that illogical nonsense like omniscience and omnipotency exist? Look up the meaning of the word fact, it's a common word so ignorance is not an excuse.

I believe because God spoke and universe popped out of nothing and it takes FAITH to do that like you believe in EVOLUTION by faith not that it has happened in your presence.

Don't get me wrong, indulge yourself, no one's forcing you (or even capable of doing so). This board is called 'religion', so this is where you're supposed to discuss these things. But if you call out atheists with this nonsense, as proof of god/SPIRIT, of course you're going to get ridiculed. Deservedly so, keep your nonsense to yourselves. For instance, the bold is another particularly foolish thing to say, something I'd expect to hear only from someone in primary school.

Why using caustic words? Afterall we are here to learn from each other.

This your ground breaking research, why is it only available on your xtian site? Even other xtians keep away from it, can you guess why?

Name the christian that shun information as evidence. Or you think is Christians that formulate information? Begins to do research on information and its law.

Let me show you something from Holy Bible.
Genesis 2:7 KJV, says "And the Lord God formed man out of the dust of the ground,(meaning Mass & Energy were present but nothing happen). And He breathed a breath of life (information) into his nostrils and he became a living soul. (everything i.e DNA, CELLS begin to function

It only takes noncarnally minded people to discover this.

Wiegraf did most of the work already. Hisblud obviously didn't understand what you said, and concluded "god is information." When you were asked what the creator of God spirit, you didn't direct any effort on the question

Emusan:

For more explanation, all information can be trace back to an intelligent soucre, then the informations in living DNA can be trace back to who? Disprove molecule-to-life.

Again information can not be generate from a purely materials meaning matters can not produce information.

Also, Information can not be generate in a statistical processes meaning no amount of time and chance given that can generate a meaningful information. Disprove nature happened by CHANCE.

ok, start with 1+1=2 and trace it to its source.

Chai! Emusan has finished them all, nice worlk Emusan, lemme join this thread and school these nitwitty atheists

Kay 17: Wiegraf did most of the work already. Hisblud obviously didn't understand what you said, and concluded "god is information." When you were asked what the creator of God spirit, you didn't direct any effort on the question ok, start with 1+1=2 and trace it to its source.

1+1+1=1 boolean logic