Pastor Kun:

You are the one making bogus claims that christians are instructed to tithe biblically so the onus is on you to show us from scriptures clear instructions to tithe and also clear instructions the tithe should be of money from regular income as I am yet to see any such instruction or even example in the bible. That is apart from the fact that as we have already shown you in the past tithing was brought to an end in hebrew 7 and described as a weak, useless and unprofitable law. that aside my username is pastor kun and NOT 'pastor' kun.

Ihedinobi:

Ok then. I agree that I will do so...but under one condition: that you show me Scriptures that say exactly not implicitly that tithes have been abolished and that they are not to be given to those who minister to us in spiritual things.

DrummaBoy:


To say the truth, 15yrs ago when I came to Christ and this brother I used to play Chess with got wind of the fact that I was saved, took me aside and explained that there were a no. of things I should now begin to do. He listed them and tithe was one of them. I obeyed bc he said it, not bc I saw it in scriptures or bc anyone taught me. Months later I read a literature that encouraged me to continue. The church I attended: it was a no go area; you either tithe or you are excommunicated (something of that nature).

However the more I read Paul words and understod the gospel of grace, the more I questioned the tithe but never had the courage to stop. Until... I took the bold step two month ago.

Is there a reason to tithe? The answer is NO. The only reason to tithe include the following

1. If the NT can show that Pastors, etc, are an ordained preisthood, that do not possess lands, etc, and must be supported by the Church, same way the levites where.
2. If we can show that the tithe that God demands is raw money and not crops and animals
3. If we can show that though the Mosaic laws are abolished, the issue of tithing have been re-enacted with our own peculiar dispensation
4. If we can find one single scripture in the NT that teaches directly or even indirectly that the NT believer must tithe
5. If tithing can be said to be not obligatory, nor is it compulsory, the kind of giving that Paul encouraged in 2 corinthians

Now my question to you is this: We have a forum, a religion forum, that is replete with atheist; many of whom have morbid hatred for Christianity. If by the grace of God one of them comes to faith in Christ. What will you tell him to do, to continue in God and to grow in grace into Maturity? Will you encourage them to begin to tithe and tell him that if he does not tithe he will go to hell?(Now that line sounds a lot like the Judaizers who, in Acts 15, wanted the gentiles to be circumcized to be truly saved. Thank God Paul resisted them, and we would continue to resist modern day Judaizers also)

m.k.o2005:

But do you agree with me that there are laws that were not touched or 'fulfilled' becos they were clear and agrees with the gospel of grace (grace dispensation) as brought to us by Christ ?
Let's take it one after the other mate !
God help us

Pastor Kun:

Stop trying to be clever by half, the only Law carried over to the dispensation of grace is to Love God and to Love our fellow men.

debosky:

That's the wrong starting point - the question is to start off with what tithe are we referring to - more than one tithe was described in the scripture. Once that is established, then we can go back to how it was instituted for practice and then determine whether the conditions under which it was practiced still apply today.

Anything else is sheer escapism/legalism in the name of 'show me where xyz is said explicitly'.

debosky: Anything else is sheer escapism/legalism in the name of 'show me where xyz is said explicitly'.

Ihedinobi:

I should also point out that by the above, brilapluz was indulging in escapism/legalism in his/her demand of me...which is pretty much what I intended to show with my reply.

Pastor Kun:

The fact remains that you tithe merchants are yet to produce a single shred of evidence that tithes is applicable to christians other than your cooked + irrelevant assumptions that are conveniently arrived at after twisting scripture.

Ihedinobi:

I don't believe that there's a law preventing you from believing whatever you want.

Pastor Kun:

I believe only biblical truths and not false man made doctrines designed to fleece the flock.

DrummaBoy:


To say the truth, 15yrs ago when I came to Christ and this brother I used to play Chess with got wind of the fact that I was saved, took me aside and explained that there were a no. of things I should now begin to do. He listed them and tithe was one of them. I obeyed bc he said it, not bc I saw it in scriptures or bc anyone taught me. Months later I read a literature that encouraged me to continue. The church I attended: it was a no go area; you either tithe or you are excommunicated (something of that nature).

However the more I read Paul words and understod the gospel of grace, the more I questioned the tithe but never had the courage to stop. Until... I took the bold step two month ago.

Is there a reason to tithe? The answer is NO. The only reason to tithe include the following

1. If the NT can show that Pastors, etc, are an ordained preisthood, that do not possess lands, etc, and must be supported by the Church, same way the levites where.
2. If we can show that the tithe that God demands is raw money and not crops and animals
3. If we can show that though the Mosaic laws are abolished, the issue of tithing have been re-enacted with our own peculiar dispensation
4. If we can find one single scripture in the NT that teaches directly or even indirectly that the NT believer must tithe
5. If tithing can be said to be not obligatory, nor is it compulsory, the kind of giving that Paul encouraged in 2 corinthians

Now my question to you is this: We have a forum, a religion forum, that is replete with atheist; many of whom have morbid hatred for Christianity. If by the grace of God one of them comes to faith in Christ. What will you tell him to do, to continue in God and to grow in grace into Maturity? Will you encourage them to begin to tithe and tell him that if he does not tithe he will go to hell?(Now that line sounds a lot like the Judaizers who, in Acts 15, wanted the gentiles to be circumcized to be truly saved. Thank God Paul resisted them, and we would continue to resist modern day Judaizers also)

Pastor Kun:

Stop trying to be clever by half, the only Law carried over to the dispensation of grace is to Love God and to Love our fellow men.

m.k.o2005:

4. If we can find one single scripture in the NT that teaches directly or even indirectly that the NT believer must tithe-Now concerning one scripture that teaches indirectly if not directly that tithing is a law that metamorphosed from the old testament into the new testament,we should consider Mathew 23:23 and the reason it was not thoroughly or repeatedly mentioned in the New testament was becos it was never an issue in the new testament,even with the early Christians!

m.k.o2005:

4. If we can find one single scripture in the NT that teaches directly or even indirectly that the NT believer must tithe-Now concerning one scripture that teaches indirectly if not directly that tithing is a law that metamorphosed from the old testament into the new testament,we should consider Mathew 23:23 and the reason it was not thoroughly or repeatedly mentioned in the New testament was becos it was never an issue in the new testament,even with the early Christians!

m.k.o2005:

There are so many laws that were carried from the old to the new testament. But that isn't the topic for now but if you care,i can still list them for you !It was not just love that was carried from the old to the new but Christ summed up all laws of the new testament proper in love ! And now i ask you,if you agree that love is indeed one of the laws that we can find in the new and the old testament,why not allow me who intends to pay my tithe for the furtherance of the gospel to keep doing it out of the love i have for God,HIS word and HIS work !Do i pay my tithe to church of satan ? I pay to d church of God !
I ask you this question,' DO YOU LOVE GOD' ? If you do,stop persecuting HIM !
God help us

Pastor Kun:

The high lighted is a lie from the pit of hell cooked up by religious merchants to justify the tithing scam and expalin away why it was not taught in the new testament. The fact remains that most of the books in the new testament were epistles written to gentiles[corinthians, romans, galatians, ephesians, colossians, thessalonians e.t.c] and these gentiles could not have been conversant or used to the jewish tradition of tithing so there would have been a need to teach them and encourage to tithe if it indeed was a christain requirement but alas there is no such teaching or record in scriptures. The fact remains that tithing as we practise it today was started in america less than 150 years ago. If you don't know your church history go and do some research and stop regurgitating lies that have been used to fleece believers over the years.

DrummaBoy: Let me add to the issue of history
1. There is no evidence that first generation Christians paved tithe
2. There is no evidence tithing was re discovered in the reformation
3. No one has spoken of Wesley churches tithing
4. There is no evidence tithe was used to support early missionaries in Africa
Tithing is wholly an unorthodox practise popularized by prosperity gospellers

DrummaBoy: And they have further taken their deceit to include FIRSTFRUIT. i like to tell this story in regards to firstfruit.

A lady moved to lagos from my local church bc of work. In The church she joined d pastor began asking her for firstfruit. She reported d matter to my pastor here in Ibadan.

My Pastor then explained to d church that firstfruit is tithe and no one need pay it, except the tithe.

Now if we were to return a hundred yrs ago, the matter in question would have been tithe not firstfruit.

Eventually with time and indoctrination people would take what they hear as biblical without questioning the basis. If my Pastor had lived in the 19century he would probably have come to the same conclusion on tithing same way he did on firstfruit.

m.k.o2005:

Referencing the highlighted,were they no Jewish Christians back then with the early churches ? If there were Jewish Christians,did they pay their tithes ? If they tithed as was their tradition like you said,were they rebuked for tithing? If they never tithed of course which will go against their tradition according to you,show me where in the scriptures when they were hailed/applauded for not tithing or where in the scriptures when they were admonished not to tithe as christian Jews ? Or should we just say none of the scripture was written by a Jew or for the Jews as well !
Pls my brother which you are sir,tithing been popularized just some 150yrs ago according to you (may be the bible is just 150yrs old becos tithing is in both NT and OT of the bible)does not make it a sin or not biblical ! It's just like saying 'silver and gold i have none' is not biblical becos it's been popularized some 2yrs ago in Nigeria !
God help us

Ihedinobi:
Those who serve the Body spiritually are the Levites and priests. So, if the tenth is going anywhere first, it is to those people you call church workers and pastors and they in turn ought to reserve a tenth for the High Priest Jesus.

Image123: one fellow is waking up in the middle of the night depressed about tithe, the other is complaining that his name is Pastor and not 'pastor'. What's wrong with these people? i'd advice Ihedinobi and mko2005 not to EXERT too much time or energy on this issue, the folks you're addressing are not interested in what you say.
foreknowledge

God help us all.

peteregwu:

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; [2] Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; [3] Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. [6] If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained." 1 Timothy 4:1-3, 6 KJV.


When Satan has undermined faith in the bible, he direct men to other sources for light(unbelievers) and power. Thus he insinuates himself. Those who turn from the plain teaching of the scripture and the convincing power of the God's Holy Spirit are inviting the control of demons. Criticism and speculation concerning the scriptures have open way for spiritism and those modernised forms of ancient heathens - to gain a foothold even in the professed churches our Lord Jesus Christ.


the reason u dont pay tithe is because u dont believe the word of God (bible), which also makes u an unbeliever.

Zikkyy:

Ihedinobi na wa for o! you don turn Jesus to tithe collector because you want to justify your tithing scheme