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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Culture / The African Phenotype Diversity Thread (71229 Views)
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Re: The African Phenotype Diversity Thread by Nobody: 3:39pm On Aug 03, 2013 |
Origins this is true for SOME of the Fulani (the wodaabe in particular). Definitely not all as most are native to west Africa and are e1b1a. wodaabe ![]() |
Re: The African Phenotype Diversity Thread by Nobody: 3:41pm On Aug 03, 2013 |
wodaabe and their tuareg brothers (big ups to fulaman for this video) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NjX1ziHVX8 |
Re: The African Phenotype Diversity Thread by BlackKenichi(m): 3:59pm On Aug 03, 2013 |
*Kails*: *Kails*:The Wodaabe are/have clearly mixed with the Tuareg and Chadic Nilo Saharan people (not to be confused with Nilotics) They have found that some Wodaabe carry Y-DNA haplogroup R1b-V88 which is mainly found around Lake Chad. R1b-V88 is probably responsible for the spread of the Chadic branch of Afro-Asiatic languages! |
Re: The African Phenotype Diversity Thread by Nobody: 4:02pm On Aug 03, 2013 |
Yes SOME Fulanis are mixed(mostly with other Africans). Their mtDNA and Y-DNA is PREDOMINANTLY African in origin. Now...I know mtDNA and Y-DNA does not tell admixture, but they DO tell us who the Fulani mixed with and it was barely Eurasians... Their typical features are just due to dry heat adaptations. |
Re: The African Phenotype Diversity Thread by Nobody: 4:07pm On Aug 03, 2013 |
when did I say they are not the product of African mixing? that is my point. the wodaabe are a mix of west and east Africans sir. I have ALWAYS said that and that is what somalia11 was saying. the taureg and the wodaabe share direct ancestry...guess what..the tuareq are MOSTLY horner African in ancestry. lol that is my POINT. |
Re: The African Phenotype Diversity Thread by Nobody: 4:08pm On Aug 03, 2013 |
Black Kenichi: my point exactly. that is what I was saying. the white people who claim they are Eurasian in ancestry are DELUSIONAL. these people are horner (Cushitic/Chadic) and west African mix. 1 Like |
Re: The African Phenotype Diversity Thread by Nobody: 5:00pm On Aug 03, 2013 |
*Kails*: 1. No...Somalia11 does equate North African/Berber with black/African. He doesn't even equate horners with African. He was NOT saying what you think he was saying. 2. No...Tuaregs DO NOT have horner ancestry. Where did you get this from? They have always been a Saharan people and never originated in East Africa. They share no links with horners other than the Afro-Asiatic language. Tuareg(among other Berbers) most likely originated in Southern Libya where the Berber marker E-M81 originated. E-M81 is predominant in Berbers and is not found in horners. |
Re: The African Phenotype Diversity Thread by Nobody: 5:08pm On Aug 03, 2013 |
1. No...Somalia11 does equate North African/Berber with black/African. He doesn't even equate horners with African. He was NOT saying what you think he was saying. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuareg_people#Genetics E1b1b1b (E-M81), the major haplogroup in Tuaregs, is the most common Y chromosome haplogroup in North Africa, dominated by its sub-clade E-M183. It is thought to have originated in North Africa 5,600 years ago. The parent clade E1b1b originated in East Africa.[43][44] Colloquially referred to as the Berber marker for its prevalence among Mozabite, Middle Atlas, Kabyle people and other Berber groups, E-M81 is also predominant among other North African groups. It reaches frequencies of up to 100 percent in some parts of the Maghreb. [img]http://64.40.115.138/file/lu/6/52235/NTIyMzV9K3szNTcxNDE=.jpg[/img] |
Re: The African Phenotype Diversity Thread by Nobody: 5:11pm On Aug 03, 2013 |
I think I know what I am talking about. thank you. |
Re: The African Phenotype Diversity Thread by Nobody: 5:24pm On Aug 03, 2013 |
*Kails*: Your own source debunked your argument... E1b1b1b (E-M81), the major haplogroup in Tuaregs, is the most common Y chromosome haplogroup in North Africa, dominated by its sub-clade E-M183. It is thought to have originated in North Africa 5,600 years ago. The parent clade E1b1b originated in East Africa.[43][44] Colloquially referred to as the Berber marker for its prevalence among Mozabite, Middle Atlas, Kabyle people and other Berber groups, E-M81 is also predominant among other North African groups. It reaches frequencies of up to 100 percent in some parts of the Maghreb. The parent clade of E-M81 is actually E-V257 and the parent clade of that clade is E-M35. Modern horners DO NOT carry that clade! Its an old clade and its rare in East Africa as a whole. Modern horners carry a sub clade of E-V12 which is E-V32. The Sub clade of E-V12 is E-M78 which is RARE in the horn! [img]http://3.bp..com/-RFDBC3MrhRc/TwSONGTqaEI/AAAAAAAAAKA/tx02k-dvLNs/s1600/E_Snp_Phylogeography.jpg[/img] Horners E-V32 most likely came from Egypt, while E-M81 AROSE in Libya. Again horners DO NOT carry E-M81 clades. Just because both have clades under E doesn't mean they have close links. E-V13 is a clade of the E haplogroup and it is not even found in Africa but Southeast Europe. Tuaregs DO NOT have modern horn ancestry... |
Re: The African Phenotype Diversity Thread by Nobody: 5:31pm On Aug 03, 2013 |
how in the hell did my own source debunk my own argument when it clearly states that without E1B1B which IS HORNER...there would be no Tauregs? ![]() saying that there is no horner ancestry in modern day tuaregs is like saying Cubans TODAY have no central African ancestry lol. which Is RETARDED. ![]() not only is the cultural evidence BLATANT and the features but their DNA tells the entire story!! sir they are E1B1B1B <<<< LITERALLY THE CHILD OF E1B1B are you seriously NOT comprehending the facts? gtfo here. |
Re: The African Phenotype Diversity Thread by Nobody: 5:34pm On Aug 03, 2013 |
Cruciani et al. (2007) suggest that this sub-clade of E-V12 originated in North Africa, and then subsequently expanded further south into the Horn of Africa, where it is now prevalent.[Note 3] Before the discovery of V32, Cruciani et al. (2004) referred to the same lineages as the "gamma cluster", which was estimated to have arisen about 8,500 years ago. They stated that "the highest frequencies in the three Cushitic-speaking groups: the Borana from Kenya (71.4%), the Oromo from Ethiopia (32.0%), and the Somali (52.2%). Outside of eastern Africa, it was found only in two subjects from Egypt (3.6%) and in one Arab from Morocco". Sanchez et al. (2005) found it extremely prominent in Somali men and stated that "the male Somali population is a branch of the East African population – closely related to the Oromos in Ethiopia and North Kenya (Boranas)" and that their gamma cluster lineages "probably were introduced into the Somali population 4000–5000 years ago". More recently, Tillmar et al. (2009) typed 147 males from Somalia for 12 Y-STR loci, and observed that 77% (113/147) had typical E-V32 haplotypes. This is currently the highest frequency of E-V32 found in any single sample population. Similarly, Hassan et al. (2008) in their study observed this to be the most common of the sub-clades of E-M78 found in Sudan, especially among the Beja, Masalit and Fur. The Beja, like Somalis and Oromos, speak an Afro-Asiatic language and live along the "corridor" from the Horn of Africa to Egypt. Hassan et al. (2008) interpret this as reinforcing the "strong correlation between linguistic and genetic diversity" and signs of relatedness between the Beja and the peoples of the Horn of Africa such as the Amhara and Oromo. On the other hand, the Masalit and Fur live in Darfur and speak a Nilo-Saharan language. The authors observed in their study that "the Masalit possesses by far the highest frequency of the E-M78 and of the E-V32 haplogroup", which they believe suggests "either a recent bottleneck in the population or a proximity to the origin of the haplogroup." However, M[b]ore recently, Tillmar et al. (2009) typed 147 males from Somalia for 12 Y-STR loci, and observed that 77% (113/147) had typical E-V32 haplotypes. This is the highest frequency of E-V32 found in any single sample population.[/b] Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E-V68#E-V32 The distribution of V-32 in Africa ![]() Again...Tuaregs DO NOT carry this clade, but North African. Tuaregs most likely have more West African genes than horner due to mixing with certain West African populations, especially in Mali. |
Re: The African Phenotype Diversity Thread by Nobody: 5:36pm On Aug 03, 2013 |
you spent all this time trying to prove horners are African yet you are today (out of desperation to prove their looks are native to west Africa) are denying their role in African diversity by claiming their children the tuaregs are an entirely different group...WOW. -_- my FACTS are much more plausible sir. there were two GREAT migrations to west Africa. the first one being E1B1A (present day sub-Saharan west African) and the second being E1B1B (east Africans). of course some tuaregs are mixed with outsiders like Mediterraneans and others due location, trade, islam and slavery but their main ancestry is found in east Africa. |
Re: The African Phenotype Diversity Thread by Nobody: 5:37pm On Aug 03, 2013 |
![]() ^^% of direct shared ancestry with Somalis. so now you are trying to tell me the tuaregs are mostly e1b1a? -_- WOW! you are looney tunes. |
Re: The African Phenotype Diversity Thread by Adamskuty(m): 5:38pm On Aug 03, 2013 |
Just landed,wow! Nice thread, they all look good except a group of people,those one from the horn of africa actually Op pls why do they look so thin like a skeleton? ![]() 2 Likes |
Re: The African Phenotype Diversity Thread by Adamskuty(m): 5:40pm On Aug 03, 2013 |
*Kails*:so horners ain't africans?? What's this one saying ![]() anybody can be an african,daaaah! |
Re: The African Phenotype Diversity Thread by Nobody: 5:43pm On Aug 03, 2013 |
Adamskuty: so horners ain't africans?? What's this one saying please stay out of this. you clearly don't understand what we are talking about. |
Re: The African Phenotype Diversity Thread by Nobody: 5:48pm On Aug 03, 2013 |
*Kails*:No...The problem with your argument is that you think E1b1b is an horner clade as a whole...NO! E1b1b is just a LARGE sub clade of E-P2 with branches of smaller clades. Did you not read my map or what I posted ![]() Again look at this map. [img]http://3.bp..com/-RFDBC3MrhRc/TwSONGTqaEI/AAAAAAAAAKA/tx02k-dvLNs/s1600/E_Snp_Phylogeography.jpg[/img] *Kails*: 1. What ![]() 2. No...Tuareg culture is more similar to neighboring Berber culture. I don't get where you think Tuareg and horner culture are similar. Heck Horner culture is more similar to Southwest Asian. Again Tuaregs are Northwest African stock while horner sra Northeast African. The only thing you suggest is that they share a distant common ancestor. 1 Like |
Re: The African Phenotype Diversity Thread by Nobody: 5:51pm On Aug 03, 2013 |
LOL! poor you. and I do mean poor. this is just sad. I mean really sad. |
Re: The African Phenotype Diversity Thread by Adamskuty(m): 5:57pm On Aug 03, 2013 |
*Kails*:i'm not interested in any shiiat y'all are talking about. I only got one question, who's an african? Not a difficult question i bet |
Re: The African Phenotype Diversity Thread by Nobody: 6:00pm On Aug 03, 2013 |
![]() OMG Kails...I thought you were smarter than this... For the love of god almighty...I said this million of times. Just because both Tuaregs and horners carry Sub clades of E1b1b DOES NOT mean they are closely related! Do you not understand mutations and stuff happens ![]() [img]http://3.bp..com/-RFDBC3MrhRc/TwSONGTqaEI/AAAAAAAAAKA/tx02k-dvLNs/s1600/E_Snp_Phylogeography.jpg[/img] ^^^^Do you not see the distance between E-V257 and E-M78 ![]() Just because horners carry E1b1b does NOT mean their the origin of that clade and just because a certain clade arose in East Africa, does not mean modern day horners carried that clade. Actually the Khwe people carry underived ancestral E1b1b! Older than those found in the horn...The only thing you can suggest is that horners and Tuaregs share a common ancestry. |
Re: The African Phenotype Diversity Thread by Adamskuty(m): 6:05pm On Aug 03, 2013 |
what's tuareg btw? I don't know why u people keep on associating with the laughing stock of the world. ![]() Let's talk about the chinese? ![]() |
Re: The African Phenotype Diversity Thread by Nobody: 6:07pm On Aug 03, 2013 |
Kails...All I am trying to do is correct your claim. Yes horners and Tuaregs share a close common ancestor(E-M35), but horners in no shape and form are the ancestors of Tuareg people. There is no evidence for that...All I'm doing is just trying to correct that claim. |
Re: The African Phenotype Diversity Thread by Nobody: 6:12pm On Aug 03, 2013 |
where is the origin of E-m35 again? just out of curiosity |
Re: The African Phenotype Diversity Thread by Nobody: 6:12pm On Aug 03, 2013 |
KidStranglehold: Kails...All I am trying to do is correct your claim. Yes horners and Tuaregs share a close common ancestor(E-M35), but horners in no shape and form are the ancestors of Tuareg people. There is no evidence for that...All I'm doing is just trying to correct that claim. lol |
Re: The African Phenotype Diversity Thread by Nobody: 6:22pm On Aug 03, 2013 |
Um...Kails. Just because E-M35 arose in East Africa(ethiopia most likely) does not mean it was carried by people who are like modern day horners. E-35 arose around 22,400 and I doubt modern day horners existed that long. Again E-M78 is the parent for almost all Northeast African clades and is mostly found in Northeast Africa. ![]() It is not the parent clade of E-M81 which Tuaregs and other Berbers carry and is not even found in Northwest Africa. |
Re: The African Phenotype Diversity Thread by Nobody: 6:27pm On Aug 03, 2013 |
KidStranglehold: [img]http://ancientsomali.files./2012/01/e1b1broute.png[/img] somali origins E-M35 The modern population of E-M215 and E-M35 lineages are almost identical, and therefore by definition age estimates based on these two populations are also identical. E1b1b (E-M215) and its dominant sub-clade E1b1b1 (E-M35) are believed to have first appeared in East Africa about 22,400 years ago. All major sub-branches of E1b1b1 are thought to have originated in the same general area as the parent clade: in North Africa, East Africa, or nearby areas of the Near East. Some branches of E1b1b1 left Africa many thousands of years ago. For example Battaglia et al. (2007) estimated that E-M78 (“E1b1b1a1″ in that paper) has been alone in Europe longer than 10,000 years. And more recently, human remains excavated in a Spanish funeral cave dating from approximately 7000 years ago were shown to be in this haplogroup interesting. this is also interesting... E-M81 I may be misunderstanding something... cuz from what I am seeing there is a DIRECT relationship between these two groups lol. oh well not my headache.... |
Re: The African Phenotype Diversity Thread by Nobody: 6:35pm On Aug 03, 2013 |
so maybe the genes did not begin IN the horn...but present day sudan/southern Egypt (which further proves east Africans were the original Egyptians and also validate the claims of the nilotes) but when it comes to relationship and ancestry the tuaregs and horners are joined at the hip. anyway like I said....the wodaabe are a mix between the tuaregs and nilo-sharan speakers. |
Re: The African Phenotype Diversity Thread by Adamskuty(m): 7:53pm On Aug 03, 2013 |
*Kails*:so who's an african? |
Re: The African Phenotype Diversity Thread by Nobody: 8:00pm On Aug 03, 2013 |
Adamskuty: so who's an african? people born in Africa or have direct parentage in Africa...regardless of race. |
Re: The African Phenotype Diversity Thread by somalia11: 9:30pm On Aug 03, 2013 |
kails why are somalis on that map much more darker than ethiopians. Are somalis more pure? Is it cause some ethios speak semetic language? Is it because the somali race has outfukked ethios? |
Re: The African Phenotype Diversity Thread by Nobody: 9:39pm On Aug 03, 2013 |
[img]http://ancientsomali.files./2012/01/e1b1broute.png[/img] This map says the same thing as the map I posted in this thread. http://3.bp..com/-RFDBC3MrhRc/TwSONGTqaEI/AAAAAAAAAKA/tx02k-dvLNs/s1600/E_Snp_Phylogeography.jpg You posted this source out of context. The modern population of E-M215 and E-M35 lineages are almost identical, and therefore by definition age estimates based on these two populations are also identical. E1b1b (E-M215) and its dominant sub-clade E1b1b1 (E-M35) are believed to have first appeared in East Africa about 22,400 years ago. All major sub-branches of E1b1b1 are thought to have originated in the same general area as the parent clade: in North Africa, East Africa, or nearby areas of the Near East. Some branches of E1b1b1 left Africa many thousands of years ago. For example Battaglia et al. (2007) estimated that E-M78 (“E1b1b1a1″ in that paper) has been alone in Europe longer than 10,000 years. And more recently, human remains excavated in a Spanish funeral cave dating from approximately 7000 years ago were shown to be in this haplogroup ^^^It doesn't state E-M35 is of Somali origins but that it arose in East Africa. The carriers of this clade were not the same as modern day horners such as Somalis, but were most likely of Khoisan/Pygmy stock. And yes this most definitely proves the Ancient Egyptians were African. All I am just saying is that modern day horners like Somalis and Ethiopians are not the ancestors if Tuaregs. I do agree that both horners and Tuareg people share a closer common ancestor than west Africans. |
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