what's the point of local government allocations, if they are useful for nothing. state governments in nigeria need to assume more responsibility.

Imagine travelling (driving) from Lagos to Port-harcourt, upon getting to Shagamu (Ogun State)the men in black (police) on routine check request for your drivers license, you produce ur LASG issued drivers license, they threaten to impound your car because you were driving without a valid license (since your license is only valid in lagos), you settle them and continue with your journey. You get to Ore (Ondo state) same problem, also Benin (Edo state) and and trust the wicked and evil policemen in Benin, they'll bleed you dry.
Imagine the chaos and how the Nigerian police in each state will make life miserable for travellers/drivers if each state introduce their drivers license.
Imagine getting arrested on a federal road becos u hold a state license.
Remember the FERMA and LASTMA bruhaha
The fact that it worked in America, doesnt mean that we should follow suit in Nigeria.

This is not about it working in America being sole reason why it should be implemented in Nigeria. Mind you it not only works in America but so many other countries out there. Considering that what we have had for the past so many decades have been marred with problems, should we than out of spite against countries like america decide that the same model can not work in Nigeria Come on, when do we learn to grow up and use our heads in this country??


What we have right now does not work and has not worked for a long time, that is why this state decided to try something else and this idea happens to be what they propose might be better for them than  what has been. It is definitely going to take a while for it to actually starting producing gain and there will be, at least at the federal level some changes to how these things work right now to accomodate the changes to be implemented but that should not be reason enough to say it will not work. The man pointed out for sure that judging by the way things have gone in the past, it would be a dangerous undertaking cause of limitations that have existed in the system up until now. Limitations on the other hand can be removed to pave way for a new system and new laws that allow such. Note, contrary to what you may think, chances are the man has spent some time on the idea before deciding it was the way to go. Note: This is not about America, this is definitely not about the whiteman either. This is simply about using what we know has worked, for decades, in so many other countries out there, including america. In simple abc



Federal licenses does not work for Lagos and it's plan===> New ways are needed to tackle the problem ====> State license is new way Lagos is considering

I can now see the reasoning of the people who don't live in Nigeria are certainly warped and demented. How can someone insinuate or postulate that because each state in America issues a driver's license, hence it should be the same in Nigeria? Is the American law that allows each state to have a different legal system the same in Nigeria? Each state should have their own police force in Nigeria as is done i America - because its done in America that way - does it justify that it should be done in Nigeria - even when there is nothing in the law of the land that calls for that?

It's not just in America alone. It works in several places. Trust me I am not one to advocate for America. Check out my posts on the travel section.
But when I see backwards thinking I speak up. If the states are charged with getting their own driver's licenses it will help generate revenue for them. This can also help in upkeep of the roads and the building of new ones. Why? Because there's more money and there will be little borrowing. We don't always have to wait for our "share" or "cut" from the federal government. This way more money can be focused on other federal government projects. Every State needs to head it's own department of education, law enforcement, department of revenue, department of health, and more. Not just because it works in America, but because it works. There's a reason why there are state and local government agencies, they need to do the work and not just be there for show.
Trust me if the states start capitalising on the resources that they have, the problems we have today will start diminishing. For example, the north is known for farming and herding, well they can be the source of agriculture for the country. The south is mostly known for oil, well you get my point.
Basicaly you take your resource and you capitalise on it. You take what you can do and do it well for the betterment of others, rather than reaping other people's sowings.

With this move by the Laogs government, other states will follow suit and if they truly want to stay on top of things, it will foster a better communication between the states and thereby reducing this so called "tribalism" crap we have.

Even if local government areas decide to issue their own licences, it will end up being a failure as a result of Nigeria's culture of corruption and mismanagement.

@ LADY

So because it worked in America is a simple proof that it will work in Nigeria? Please back up this with empirical eveidence that it will work in Nigeria.

And to those people that says what we have now doesnt work - please explain why you think it doesnt work - or even what do you mean by it doesnt work.

People just talk because talk is cheap.

nuzo:

Even if local government areas decide to issue their own licences, it will end up being a failure as a result of Nigeria's culture of corruption and mismanagement.

you can't succeed if u are scared of failure. it seems people are fine with the status quo.

N-joy:

@ LADY

So because it worked in America is a simple proof that it will work in Nigeria? Please back up this with empirical eveidence that it will work in Nigeria.

And to those people that says what we have now doesnt work - please explain why you think it doesnt work - or even what do you mean by it doesnt work.

People just talk because talk is cheap.

Somebody just narrated a story of how he applied for a federal driver's licence in 2007 and he is yet to get it several months into 2008.
Other stories like bribery and paying more than the stipulated amount to get one has become normal in Nigeria.
Hope you are not also playing blind to acquisition of the licence in absence.
To cut the story short, the federal driver's licence is a sham because of corruption and mismanagement in the system.

bawomolo:

you can't succeed if u are scared of failure. it seems people are fine with the status quo.

I'm neither scared of failure nor fine with status quo.
My point is that there is nothing wrong with the structure of FRSC or the Nigerian system. Our problems are corruption and mismanagement. That was why i said that it wont make much difference even if LGA or communities begin to issue driver's licence.
In this case, we are talking about LATMA which is known for her huge bribe collection.

Besides, for Lagos to embark on such programme, it will have to be backed by the constitution. This is the part where some may wish to advocate for a decentralized state.

My point is that there is nothing wrong with the structure of FRSC or the Nigerian system. Our problems are corruption and mismanagement

oversized government agencies like the FRSC usually gives way to corruption and mismanagement easily. this is one of the reason for breaking up NEPA to PHCN or whatever. if states assume more responsibility then things can run more smoothly even when there is a weak link somewhere. with the current system, the federal government basically holds the states hostage.

Besides, for Lagos to embark on such programme, it will have to be backed by the constitution. This is the part where some may wish to advocate for a decentralized state.

i'm a supporter of decentralization too. more power to the states and local governments

bawomolo:

oversized government agencies like the FRSC usually gives way to corruption and mismanagement easily. this is one of the reason for breaking up NEPA to PHCN or whatever. if states assume more responsibility then things can run more smoothly even when there is a weak link somewhere. with the current system, the federal government basically holds the states hostage.

i'm a supporter of decentralization too. more power to the states and local governments

With a computerized social security system or documented national identity cards, efficient FRSC state branches; the driver's licence crisis will be a thing of the past. It will even be more successful than that of the so-called US system. Issuance of DL, tracking down road offenders and detecting fake DL will be one of the easiest jobs to do in Nigeria.

I'm still not against change or more power to state and LGA, but if we cannot detect why FRSC is not working, then that of state will be a failure in no time soon.
Sorry, it is already, LATMA is no better than FRSC.

Nigeria1.:

FRSC is not working because they are far away in abuja. forget the state branches they are just demo. You can not have a situation where the south get 13% oil revenue but no northern state get that.

You have to have a level playing field. where each northern state have to be able to generate revenue independant of oil. this open the way for each northern state to make new revenue by each northern state directly collecting state education tax, personal tax, state petrol tax, company tax and other tax. New york does not have to depend on the Federal. I do not see why kano state have to. This can't only happen through non oil revenue. You can have a nation of rich state and poor state govt.

Its either you are not getting the gist at all or you are just being sentimental.

The state control wont work if we don't detect the core problems in our society. We already know its corruption and mismanagement. Now, these series and repeated types of corruption, mismanagement and other crimes took and are still taking place as a result of the absence of a social security system with a central data base.

I still believe there's nothing wrong with the structure as Nigeria will be viewed as a family of ten if we decide to move along with electronic documentation and computerization.

If you are advocating for a decentralized state; good for you. But that should go for another thread.

because a system is mirred in coruption and mis management is not a proof that the system does not work - isint that simple reasoning enough?

LMAO!!!!! see reasoning!!!

YES I'm in full support (both hands raised up!)

Of course why not. Lagos is advocating for our (or their) right. Let's share the money.

You pay 3,500 and get your licence within 3 days but you can wait forever if you go through the front door. The same goes for your International Passport. What is sauce for the goose, is sauce for Lagos.

If they are actually doing their work, then all federal roads should look like Ozumba Mbadiwe. Forget about trucks and accidents plying the roads like Americans don't have that, why's the system there working and not working here, why do you have to lose your "arm" and "shocks" to bad roads and water logged pot holes (or pits?), why do armed robbers lie in wait for innocent hard working motorists at these junctions?

I don't know what these guys are trying to protect honestly, cos i know 15 year olds who are still learning to ride a bicycle who already have class E drivers licence issued in ABUJA!

Common give it to lagos and let them make more money and issue this thing faster, maybe in one day, if only it can get cheaper.

By the way does anyone know where I can get an International Licence?

N-joy:

because a system is mirred in coruption and mis management is not a proof that the system does not work - isint that simple reasoning enough?

I will appreciate it if you let us know why the system in Nigeria is not working?

@topic,

How can people declare that a State-issued driver's licences should only be valid for use on State roads? I think the best way to let such people see the foolishness in their thinking is to apply the same logic to other areas. In this case, let us apply it to the educational sector.

If we must go by that same logic, graduates from any University will only be allowed to work in that State with their certificates. No out-of-State certificates will be honoured becuase the education wasn't received within the State borders or in a Federal University. By that same logic, only Graduates from Federal Universities would qualify to work in any State of their choice. Can you guys begin to see the futility of that logic?

State issued driver's license is the best way to go. All the FRSC need do is to set the terms and conditions that must be met by each State. Each State will then have the flexibility to address the unique driving conditions of the State to the Driver's learning experience without compromising the Federal requirement. Driving in Abuja and Lagos are two different ball games altogether and each State will know how to address its own unique needs.

Quote from: N-joy on April 27, 2008, 06:29 PM
I can now see the reasoning of the people who don't live in Nigeria are certainly warped and demented. How can someone insinuate or postulate that because each state in America issues a driver's license, hence it should be the same in Nigeria? Is the American law that allows each state to have a different legal system the same in Nigeria? Each state should have their own police force in Nigeria as is done i America - because its done in America that way - does it justify that it should be done in Nigeria - even when there is nothing in the law of the land that calls for that?




You are absolutely right, one cannot imagine the type of nonsense some of these people put down here. Little wonder them talk say even if you carry pig go US na pig e go still remain.

Every day the quality of discussion on this forum (politics) keeps going down thanks to the crazy views of some Nigerians especially those living outside Nigeria.





INSULT

Those Nigerians who seems to talk crazy do so because they've seen it work. The groundwork for economic evolution has already been done by the west all that needs to be done is copy and adapt.

Remember the yearly N300/car tax by Marwa used for road repairs? All Danfos had to get fixed with paint, and upholstery(best of recent time). For that to be done effectively, the state will have to issue plates, tags and licence. Plates do not read "Federal Republic of Nigeria" its ***** state so let ***** state take care of plate and FGN use the commission to set standards. A federal commission that cannot safely maintain 2 cars within a state in NIGERA! has no business enforcing/issuing safety standards for Nigerian roads.They've shown that auto safety is not guaranteed by the 8 yr limit on used cars. It all comes down to the extent of road (dis)repair, and owner/user maintenance culture which is dependant on access to parts that meet OEM specifications.

States need to issue;
Plates to show that this specific car belongs to this person who lives in this part of the state.
Tags to show that the car has met required condition^ for the year and taxes has been paid.
Licence to show a person has met required condition^ to drive on Nigerian roads.

^ Conditions set by FRSC as a commission not an enforcement agency.


The more cars you have on roads, the more repair will be needed to keep it in shape. Lagos being able to collect yearly tax on cars registered by residents will result in less pressure on its budget and a direct mean of financing its maintenance programmes.

[s]na wa o. Because I own a car, I should have 37 drivers' licences[/s]. Some Nigerians in the disapora think like they do not know or understand the realities of the Nigerian situation as currently is. If it is fiscal or political federalism, then it should be by national concensus i.e. agreement by the whole and not narrow-minded actions by the constituent parts.

There have been so much stories about the so-called Nigerian inefficiency that people are beginning to sound like broken records. I got my license exactly 3 weeks after I applied for the renewal. No stories and its not becuase I knew anybody there.

All these tax this tax that approach of lagos State govt will soon become an issue when election comes. Remember Lagosians are too sophisticated and politically matured to be hoodwinked.

Not to be mean or something but do you seriously believe that in the year 2008, 3 weeks to get a license is what you deserve? Why not push for same day which is what you are more likely to get when the state handles the process

The issue is really a question of where should Naija be in to next 15->20yrs in terms of records and its ability to acquire information about the population.

What happened to all that noise called Vision 2010, the money and idea was there, but no reliable information on the population was available.

If the Federal govt is failing to set the foundation for Naija's future, states should step in, if states fail corporations should take over. The people need to grow with time, not a semi-literate politician's pace to grasp global trends. If OBJ didn't step aside on govt's domination of telecom 8+yrs ago, how many of you in naija think you'll have access to internet through NITEL now.

Donot let your pace of growth be dictated by federal agents such as those FRSC personnels with such limited vision.

@kobojunkie & sultaan,

Over time, i'come to appreciate your contributions on this forum. But let me tell you this, we are talking about a situation whereby people tell imaginary stories about the efficiency or otherwise in Nigeria. Now my point is this, yes we do deserve better than getting a license in 3 weeks, we do know Nepa does not work. The way forward is not by excessive taxation and overburdening the people. Advocates of federalism have always canvassed autonomy for the federating units.

Remember MOT? It is still in force. If you commit any offence in Lagos now, before you are fined, you must produce your income tax certificate. Houses and places of business are being demolished, acquired by the state and re-allocated to the elites all in the name of buiding a mega city.

A new state license is an unnecessary burden which Lagosians do not need now.

@ All posters

I really appreciate the discussions on the Lagos licence issues. However unfortunately most posters have not asked the right questions or arrived at correct conclusions.

It is asolutely unnecessary to castigate posters residing outside Nigeria, insinuating they don't know the reality on ground. I live in Lagos and i know we have a less than perfect system. I was priviledged to live in Houston for 6 months some years back so i could make comparison between the 2 systems. The conclusion is need paradigm shift on how to organise our society.

The is not per se on the time it takes to issue the licence but the quality of efforts put in ensure it gets only to deserving hands and that the document is a really useful and respected document.

In Houston, to get the Texas state driving licence, you have to fill an application form, present your international passport (for non citizens) or state ID,pay the necessary fee ($24) pick up the highway code, fix a test date and go home to study the code. You can change your exam date if you are done with studying the code. After writing the exam and passing, you fix another date to do physical driving test with a state instructor /evaluator. His remarks on your ability will determine if you get the licence or not.
We used to have most of the above stated in our system before military immediacy and automatic alacrity took over our society and see the abyss we have decscended to. I am not sure if the system was sate controlled then or not but most posters will agree jettisoning the system for the current way WILL not improve our driving abilty/culture

Lagos state is taking a bold step that should be encouraged by all who want things to be done in the right way and free us from our military induced shackles.
The questions to be asked should have been in vehicle and driving licence issue on the Exclusive legislative list i.e to be legislated only by Federal goverment? It is not. I belive it is on the concurrent list that is both goverments can legislate on the issue.

We need to encourage our individual states to wake up from their slumber and take the isse of governance serious by providing services for the citizens residing within their borders

Eagle1:

@kobojunkie & sultaan,

Over time, i'come to appreciate your contributions on this forum. But let me tell you this, we are talking about a situation whereby people tell imaginary stories about the efficiency or otherwise in Nigeria. Now my point is this, yes we do deserve better than getting a license in 3 weeks, we do know Nepa does not work. The way forward is not by excessive taxation and overburdening the people. Advocates of federalism have always canvassed autonomy for the federating units.

Remember MOT? It is still in force. If you commit any offence in Lagos now, before you are fined, you must produce your income tax certificate. Houses and places of business are being demolished, acquired by the state and re-allocated to the elites all in the name of buiding a mega city.

A new state license is an unnecessary burden which Lagosians do not need now.

There is nothing overburdening in moving the current system from federal to state. Infact, it will save lagosians money and time as the state can have offices in various LGA's handling local applications and hence speeding up the process and going a long way to help maintain the records involved more effectively and efficiently. Those savings are not only passed down to lagos drivers but also translate into better records for local and national police to take advantage of. I mean come on. Why not look at the good and then compare it to what we have now and see how much better things could be. I see the last poster already tells of how things never used to be the way they are today. Back in the days of LSTC, Lagos was a great place to live in with working systems but laziness and corruption has gotten the better of us, over the years. Must we choose to continue in that path or jump off it now and onto a better path, which we know from experience worked well and currently works even better in this day and age??

I may be wrong about this, but wasn't the FRSC and environmental sanitation established through a military decree. If they are still existing based under that decree, and not legislated through a congress, then they are both illegal. So is there a law that supports FRSC .If not they should not be on the road(am not aware of acts, just decrees)


Just found this.Someone is obviously thinking in Aso-Rock

http://odili.net/news/source/2008/may/15/420.html



Thursday, May 15, 2008 Printer Friendly Version

Driver licence: Yar’Adua meets Fashola, FRSC boss

By Ihuoma Chiedozie, Abuja


There are strong indications that President Umaru Yar’Adua is favourably disposed to plans by the Lagos State Government to produce and issue driving licences to Lagos motorists.


This emerged after the President summoned top officials of the Lagos State Government and the Federal Road Safety Commission to a meeting in the State House, Abuja, in a bid to resolve the dispute.

The meeting, which held on Tuesday in the President’s office, was attended by Lagos State Governor Mr. Babatunde Fashola, and the Corps Marshal of the FRSC, Mr. Osita Chidoka.

A source at the meeting disclosed that Yar’Adua had, after listening to both parties, decided that the dispute should not be limited to agitations by the state government alone.

He, therefore, directed that all the state governments in the country should meet to review the issue and present a joint proposal for his approval.

The source explained that the President prefers a situation whereby the FRSC solely designs the template for the licence, while the state governments produce and issue it within their respective localities.

According to the source, “He (the President) is of the opinion that the FRSC should design the template while the respective states do the production and issuance of the licence.

“I think the President does not want to isolate the Lagos case. He wants all the attorneys-general of the states to meet to review the issue and come up with a joint proposal to the President for approval.”

The source added that the move was expected to ensure an easier disbursement of the licence as a remedy to the prevailing situation whereby prospective applicants wait several months before receiving the licence.

The dispute over the authority to produce and issue driving licence ensued after the Lagos State Government decided to introduce its own licence to Lagos motorists, arguing that it was constitutionally empowered to do so.

The state government noted that the production and issuance of the licence fell under the residual matters in the 1999 Constitution, which meant that state assemblies could legislate on it.

However, the plan by the state government elicited a swift resistance from the FRSC, which argued that it had the sole authority to produce and issue the licence.

To drive home its claim, the FRSC had vowed not to recognise licences issued by the state government, threatening that motorists with such licences would be arrested and prosecuted on federal roads.

Issuance of driver licences and number plates was nationalised in 1990s by Babangida regime. I dont know how 'young' most forumites are but before that time, states handled all these things and I will say very efficiently. You dare not put 'L' sign on your car without complying with the provisions of the law like having learners permit and a licenced driver by your side. Today under the so-called national scheme, a learner already has a driver licence in his pocket . It is actually a case of reversal to old method rather than introduction of new system.