benalvino:
i dont want to go through this again. you carefully selected the translations that tries to support you. see other translations

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
"The LORD already possessed me long ago, when his way began, before any of his works.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

American King James Version
The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

American Standard Version
Jehovah possessed me in the beginning of his way, Before his works of old.

Douay-Rheims Bible
The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his ways, before he made any thing from the beginning.

Darby Bible Translation
Jehovah possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

English Revised Version
The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

Webster's Bible Translation
The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

World English Bible
"Yahweh possessed me in the beginning of his work, before his deeds of old.

Young's Literal Translation
Jehovah possessed me -- the beginning of His way, Before His works since then.

English Standard Version (©2001)
“The LORD possessed me at the beginning of his work, the first of his acts of old.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"The LORD possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

The
Hebrew word which KJV translates as possess is QA-NA’NI [ = produced me;
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance # 7069,
erect, create ]. The Greek EKTISEN ME
means “created me.” And, the Latin is
POSSESDIT ME meaning “possessed me.” It
is clear the KJV and others have followed
Jerome’s 4th Century Latin Vulgate..

It is obvious which rendering the KJV has adopted...

Now take a look at how the new Jerusalem bible puts it...it perfects all what I have been trying to tell you.....

NJB
22.Yahweh created me, first-fruits
of his fashioning, before the oldest
of his works.


Are you seeing a very sincere tight rendering of that verse..remember what I told you about being the beginning of someone elses work??....

You see the expression ""first fruits"" which the NJB uses......GBAM!!!!!....it hits the nail on the head......

Even the rendering possessed shows the wisdom under consideration was created,had a beginning....

benalvino:

BROUGHT(bring) has many mean... to cause something to exist or occur... to come with... when i say she brought forth her car am not saying she created car or gave birth to her car.

according to your brought forth meaning created... can you say this Guy was created here?
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Then he brought me out into the outer court, the way toward the north; and he brought me to the chamber which was opposite the separate area and opposite the building toward the north.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Then he brought me forth into the utter court, the way toward the north: and he brought me into the chamber that was over against the separate place, and which was before the building toward the north.

Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
Then the man led me out by way of the north gate into the outer court. He brought me to the group of chambers opposite the temple yard and opposite the building to the north.

International Standard Version (©2012)
Then he brought me to the outer, north-facing courtyard into the chamber that stood opposite the structure that was facing north.

NET Bible (©2006)
Then he led me out to the outer court, toward the north, and brought me to the chamber which was opposite the courtyard and opposite the building on the north.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Then the man led me out toward the north to the outer courtyard. He brought me to the side rooms opposite both the open area and the northern building.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Then he brought me forth into the outer court, the way toward the north: and he brought me into the chamber that was opposite the separate courtyard, and which was opposite the building facing north.

American King James Version
Then he brought me forth into the utter court, the way toward the north: and he brought me into the chamber that was over against the separate place, and which was before the building toward the north.

American Standard Version
Then he brought me forth into the outer court, the way toward the north: and he brought me into the chamber that was over against the separate place, and which was over against the building toward the north.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And he brought me forth into the outward court by the way that leadeth to the north, and he brought me into the chamber that was over against the separate building, and over against the house toward the north.

Darby Bible Translation
And he brought me forth into the outer court, the way toward the north; and he brought me to the cells that were over against the separate place and which were over against the building, toward the north,

English Revised Version
Then he brought me forth into the outer court, the way toward the north: and he brought me into the chamber that was over against the separate place, and which was over against the building toward the north.

Webster's Bible Translation
Then he brought me forth into the outer court, the way towards the north: and he brought me into the chamber that was over against the separate place, and which was before the building towards the north.

World English Bible
Then he brought me forth into the outer court, the way toward the north: and he brought me into the room that was over against the separate place, and which was over against the building toward the north.

Young's Literal Translation
And he bringeth me forth unto the outer court, the way northward, and he bringeth me in unto the chamber that is over-against the separate place, and that is over-against the building at the north.
Ezekiel 42:1
this verse is not talking about someone being born or created...

Now I can see the fraud you are...
Proverbs talks about creation and the verse and example you bring talks about what??...now let us go to the hebrew word used that was rendered brought forth by the Kjv and rendered made,formed,born by other translations.....

Let me expose you more and make you abandon the trinity....

The Hebrew word rendered brought forth is CHUWL [Strong's Exhaustive
Concordance # 2342, twist, whirl, bear, bring
forth, be in pain] and is rendered, “I
travailed” by IB. That is, Wisdom by its
creation or birth experienced “birth-pangs.”
The Greek LXX is GENNA ME [birthed me].


We have considered the original word...and it has everything to do with one being born,formed,created,set up etc.....

It is this same word that was used by the KJV in psalms 90:2 when it said the waters and mountains were brought forth...

Please read...

Psalm 90:2
King James Version (KJV)
2 Before the mountains were brought forth,
or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the
world, even from everlasting to everlasting,
thou art God.


Please do you see how the word CHUWL was used in this verse as regards creation??.....it uses brought forth and formed to show the mountains and the earth were created,had a beginning....


Remember our discussion is on creation and not on people who are going to court...don't be a fraud....

This is why the other translations use born,formed...they all signify creation....

Do you understand......


I have gone to the root word used,both hebrew and greek so you have no where to run to....

benalvino:


Proverbs 3:19
The LORD by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens.

you will say he created understanding too... instead of possess... i don't see how God was without wisdom and he had to create wisdom. I can bring forth something i already possess...
Psalm 104:24 How many are your works, LORD! In wisdom you made them all; the earth is full of your creatures.
Psalm 136:5 who by his understanding made the heavens, His love endures forever.

Sorry bro...the hebrew words up there I have brought debunks your exegesis which is streamlined towards the trinity....

Please look up the hebrew/greek words used for brought forth...it ends your case.....

Wisdom was created as the first of Gods work....

benalvino:

The Hebrew word that commonly means "create" (bara') is not used in verse 22; rather the word is qanah, which occurs eighty-four times in the Old Testament and almost always means "to get, acquire." like you post bibles that supports your point many others in fact majority supports mine which is not the case though: "The Lord possessed me at the beginning of his way NABS" (similarly KJV). (Note this sense of the word in Gen. 39:1; Ex. 21:2; Prov. 4:5,7; 23:23; Eccl. 2:7; Isa. 1:3 ["owner"].) This is a legitimate sense and, if wisdom is understood as a real person, would mean only that God the Father began to direct and make use of the powerful creative work of God the Son at the time creation began: the Father summoned the Son to work with him in the activity of creation. The expression "brought forth" in verses 24 and 25 is a different term but could carry a similar meaning: the Father began to direct and make use of the powerful creative work of the Son in the creation of the universe.

Please why didn't you find the hebrew word that was rendered brought forth??.....I have helped you done that and it collapses all your efforts to block this glaring truth.....

And for your info the word qanah when used with respect to creation or pro-creation strictly means creation and surely portends the beginning of a life or something.....

Please read up how wisdom was born and formed...



Your are trying to refute 2 clear truths....e go hook you for throat...it has already....

And please try and find out wether bara had to be used in psalms 90:2 to debunk your reasoning....

benalvino:

One thing to note... from this verse you are using it says Jesus was at the side of God doing creation... But the bible says no one was at the side of God when he was doing creation... this is another problem for you... The bible says multiple times that it is One God that created us all... again bible says no one was beside God when he was creating... What does this mean?
Does it mean wisdom was not By his side when he was creating?

And now I know you've been daft through out this discussion...

Let me expose you again...

English Standard Version
(©2001)
And now, Father, glorify me in
your own presence with the glory
that I had with you before the
world existed.


Has Jesus not exposed your ignorance??....

Jesus,who is wisdom in proverbs was with the Father before the world was made,formed,brought forth, and he was engaged after he himself was created first etc....

1 corinthians 8:6 has shown Jesus' vendor role,along with proverbs but you want to run away...enjoy Jesus' words above....

Please read proverbs 8:23-25
NIV


23
at the very beginning, when the world
came to be.
When there were no watery depths, I was
given birth, 24
when there were no springs overflowing
with water;
before the mountains were settled in place, 25
before the hills, I was given birth


Do you see how Jesus is actually this wisdom in question??...

benalvino:



In Proverbs 3:19 we find a similar reference to "wisdom" being part of Creation: "The LORD by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens." In this passage we find that not only was "wisdom" with the LORD in the beginning, but so too was UNDERSTANDING! In order to be consistent.

i wont be going in circles with you about this...
we can understand from your point of view God was without wisdom.
we can conclude that Jesus created him self in colossians.

Even after seeing that Jesus was confirmed as wisdom from the new testament..??

Who do you think wants to be going in circle with a fraudulent argument like this??...

I have just shown you that Jesus was created as the beginning of Gods creation...

Please read up the NJB and see what the beginning of means...I had used several examples to show you the truth but u refused it...

All d examples I gave of reuben and the firstborns of isreal and egypt where the expression was used to signify firstfruit,you dodged them and then you come here talking about arguing in circles...

benalvino:


Isaiah 44:24
This is what the LORD says-- your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb: I am the LORD, the Maker of all things, who stretches out the heavens, who spreads out the earth by myself,
How can God say he does the Heaven and earth alone if he created Jesus and proverbs says wisdom was beside him?
you said Jesus was the only thing God created directly and then through Jesus everything was created... This again states that the 2 persons are involved... Jesus name follow for creation SO why God Go say no one was with him and Only Him do everything?

this thread is not about trinity but you wont talk about anything aside trinity...

And you are still in la la land..I knwo this truth is one that might be hard for you to gulp..it might take a little time,but just free yourself off the pagan trinity and get down with the truth....

Let me again make these salient clear points...

See the parallels between wisdom in proverbs and Jesus....even though we have confirmed that Jesus is wisdom...

See....


1. Both are the first of God's works [Proverbs
8:22 = Colossians 1:15; Revelation 3:14];

2. Both existed with God before the creation
[Proverbs 8:23-29 = John 1:2, 3; 17:5;
Colossians 1:15, 16];

3. Both were involved in the creation [Proverbs
8:30 = John 1:3; Hebrews 1:2; 1 Corinthians
8:6];..notice the word through for Jesus which shows his being Gods vendor...

4. Both have a love for humankind [Proverbs 8:31;
John 3:16];

5. Both are associated with Life [Proverbs 8:35
= John 1:1-4; 1 John 1:1-3];

6. Christ is actually called "Wisdom" [1
Corinthians 1:24, 30; Matthew 23:34; Luke
11:49]



Gbam!!!!!......

Keep playing steven wonder .......


I have given the firm meanings of the hebrew and greek words used for creation and brought forth....

I have shown all that needs to be shown that Jesus had a beginning...I have clearly and patently explained what Jesus being the beginning of Gods creation means with verses and examples from the bible.....

All you have done is run around possess and a false definition of brought forth....

I dey wait for you...

I dey wait here to destroy your tricks...

I still have more from where it came from...

Let's go!!!....

ijawkid:


The
Hebrew word which KJV translates as possess is QA-NA’NI [ = produced me;
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance # 7069,
erect, create ]. The Greek EKTISEN ME
means “created me.” And, the Latin is
POSSESDIT ME meaning “possessed me.” It
is clear the KJV and others have followed
Jerome’s 4th Century Latin Vulgate..

It is obvious which rendering the KJV has adopted...

Now take a look at how the new Jerusalem bible puts it...it perfects all what I have been trying to tell you.....

NJB
22.Yahweh created me, first-fruits
of his fashioning, before the oldest
of his works.


Are you seeing a very sincere tight rendering of that verse..remember what I told you about being the beginning of someone elses work??....

You see the expression ""first fruits"" which the NJB uses......GBAM!!!!!....it hits the nail on the head......

Even the rendering possessed shows the wisdom under consideration was created,had a beginning....




Now I can see the fraud you are...
Proverbs talks about creation and the verse and example you bring talks about what??...now let us go to the hebrew word used that was rendered brought forth by the Kjv and rendered made,formed,born by other translations.....

Let me expose you more and make you abandon the trinity....

The Hebrew word rendered brought forth is CHUWL [Strong's Exhaustive
Concordance # 2342, twist, whirl, bear, bring
forth, be in pain] and is rendered, “I
travailed” by IB. That is, Wisdom by its
creation or birth experienced “birth-pangs.”
The Greek LXX is GENNA ME [birthed me].


We have considered the original word...and it has everything to do with one being born,formed,created,set up etc.....

It is this same word that was used by the KJV in psalms 90:2 when it said the waters and mountains were brought forth...

Please read...

Psalm 90:2
King James Version (KJV)
2 Before the mountains were brought forth,
or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the
world, even from everlasting to everlasting,
thou art God.


Please do you see how the word CHUWL was used in this verse as regards creation??.....it uses brought forth and formed to show the mountains and the earth were created,had a beginning....


Remember our discussion is on creation and not on people who are going to court...don't be a fraud....

This is why the other translations use born,formed...they all signify creation....

Do you understand......


I have gone to the root word used,both hebrew and greek so you have no where to run to....





Sorry bro...the hebrew words up there I have brought debunks your exegesis which is streamlined towards the trinity....

Please look up the hebrew/greek words used for brought forth...it ends your case.....

Wisdom was created as the first of Gods work....







Please why didn't you find the hebrew word that was rendered brought forth??.....I have helped you done that and it collapses all your efforts to block this glaring truth.....

And for your info the word qanah when used with respect to creation or pro-creation strictly means creation and surely portends the beginning of a life or something.....

Please read up how wisdom was born and formed...



Your are trying to refute 2 clear truths....e go hook you for throat...it has already....

And please try and find out wether bara had to be used in psalms 90:2 to debunk your reasoning....







And now I know you've been daft through out this discussion...

Let me expose you again...

English Standard Version
(©2001)
And now, Father, glorify me in
your own presence with the glory
that I had with you before the
world existed.


Has Jesus not exposed your ignorance??....

Jesus,who is wisdom in proverbs was with the Father before the world was made,formed,brought forth, and he was engaged after he himself was created first etc....

1 corinthians 8:6 has shown Jesus' vendor role,along with proverbs but you want to run away...enjoy Jesus' words above....

Please read proverbs 8:23-25
NIV


23
at the very beginning, when the world
came to be.
When there were no watery depths, I was
given birth, 24
when there were no springs overflowing
with water;
before the mountains were settled in place, 25
before the hills, I was given birth


Do you see how Jesus is actually this wisdom in question??...






Even after seeing that Jesus was confirmed as wisdom from the new testament..??

Who do you think wants to be going in circle with a fraudulent argument like this??...

I have just shown you that Jesus was created as the beginning of Gods creation...

Please read up the NJB and see what the beginning of means...I had used several examples to show you the truth but u refused it...

All d examples I gave of reuben and the firstborns of isreal and egypt where the expression was used to signify firstfruit,you dodged them and then you come here talking about arguing in circles...



And you are still in la la land..I knwo this truth is one that might be hard for you to gulp..it might take a little time,but just free yourself off the pagan trinity and get down with the truth....

Let me again make these salient clear points...

See the parallels between wisdom in proverbs and Jesus....even though we have confirmed that Jesus is wisdom...

See....


1. Both are the first of God's works [Proverbs
8:22 = Colossians 1:15; Revelation 3:14];

2. Both existed with God before the creation
[Proverbs 8:23-29 = John 1:2, 3; 17:5;
Colossians 1:15, 16];

3. Both were involved in the creation [Proverbs
8:30 = John 1:3; Hebrews 1:2; 1 Corinthians
8:6];..notice the word through for Jesus which shows his being Gods vendor...

4. Both have a love for humankind [Proverbs 8:31;
John 3:16];

5. Both are associated with Life [Proverbs 8:35
= John 1:1-4; 1 John 1:1-3];

6. Christ is actually called "Wisdom" [1
Corinthians 1:24, 30; Matthew 23:34; Luke
11:49]



Gbam!!!!!......

Keep playing steven wonder .......


I have given the firm meanings of the hebrew and greek words used for creation and brought forth....

I have shown all that needs to be shown that Jesus had a beginning...I have clearly and patently explained what Jesus being the beginning of Gods creation means with verses and examples from the bible.....

All you have done is run around possess and a false definition of brought forth....

I dey wait for you...

I dey wait here to destroy your tricks...

I still have more from where it came from...

Let's go!!!....

if you want me to reply this you will have to go to my thread i opened about creation of Jesus... This thread is for something else... From what i have seen you will only take your bias.

this thread is not aligned with what we are talking.

Ezekiel 28:13-15

13
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were
created.
“You were the anointed cherub who covers; 14
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of
fiery stones.
You were perfect in your ways from the day
you were created, 15
Till iniquity was found in you.




@benalvino...


The same word, created, used in Proverbs
8:22 for wisdom is used (ekisthes) of the Devil.


Maybe you can tell me if the devil was possessed too,,,....

I am here to chisel proverbs 8:22-31 into your brain until you concede...

Running around the word possessed when we are talking about creation is not going to help you.....

Another word related to this in Proverbs and
Ezekiel is that found at Colossians 1:15 where
Christ is called, “the firstborn of all creation
[= ktiseos].” And, again the beloved John uses
the word at Revelation 3:14, “the beginning of
the creation [= ktiseos] of The God.” These
later texts are in complete agreement with
Proverbs 8:22, that “Christ [as the] ... the
Wisdom of God” was created as the very first
or beginning of God’s works.


You can as well substitute the word possess for all this linked words that are in congruence with wisdom being created and not just merely possessed...

benalvino:

if you want me to reply this you will have to go to my thread i opened about creation of Jesus... This thread is for something else... From what i have seen you will only take your bias.

this thread is not aligned with what we are talking.

Let us end it here...it has already started....let us end it...

I just updated another bomb shell...

It is now that the thread has been turned into a trinity thread that you want to stop half way ?

Come finish what you started o!

truthislight: It is now that the thread has been turned into a trinity thread that you want to stop half way ?

Come finish what you started o!

you should stop the habit of being biased its becoming part of you... in fact i ignore ijawkid and stopped posting for sometimes because he keeps coming with the trinity despite me telling him that this is not about the trinity... I know how you behave so nothing you do actually gets to me... am happy that you know your insultive pattern has no effect on me and you stopped... and when people like bidam wants to insult ijawkid i ask them to stop... i dont thing being cruel in debate solidifies the point you are trying to me... you are nobody to me as a matter of fact... so when you try to insult me... I see it as digital values of 0s and 1s on my computer screen... and you dont exist. to prove that i didnt start this go to this link and read through realize how many times i tell ijawkid that its not about trinity in this thread that he should go to my thread he left for that discussion and see what he was responding to me.

https://www.nairaland.com/1321883/did-jesus-preexist-birth-honeychild/1

am not ready for your crap... you should be tired that its not working by now.

Read this:

http://www.triumphpro.com/was-jesus-christ-created.htm

benalvino:
you should stop the habit of being biased its becoming part of you... in fact i ignore ijawkid and stopped posting for sometimes because he keeps coming with the trinity despite me telling him that this is not about the trinity... I know how you behave so nothing you do actually gets to me... am happy that you know your insultive pattern has no effect on me and you stopped... and when people like bidam wants to insult ijawkid i ask them to stop... i dont thing being cruel in debate solidifies the point you are trying to me... you are nobody to me as a matter of fact... so when you try to insult me... I see it as digital values of 0s and 1s on my computer screen... and you dont exist. to prove that i didnt start this go to this link and read through realize how many times i tell ijawkid that its not about trinity in this thread that he should go to my thread he left for that discussion and see what he was responding to me.

am not ready for your crap... you should be tired that its not working by now.

Go ahead and answer the questions and stop whinning.

You started it. Simple.

truthislight:

Go ahead and answer the questions and stop whinning.

You started it. Simple.

let your ignorance shine!!! lol
ask him to answer the questions i gave before... go up and see the contradictions! questions he has not answered till date.... he is talking about translations now... while qabah means many things in context possess is the right word to use... in fact watchtower even states that wisdom personified might be referring to jesus from their statement they are not too sure. i have dealt with this translation stuffs and explain it before in my other thread so why start same thing here...
I just want to know who was prudence that wisdom dwells with?

If wisdom really speaks of Jesus, then all references to wisdom in Proverbs 1-9 must also speak of Christ. If this is so then, according to Proverbs 1:20-21, Jesus was a woman and we need to know who ‘Prudence’ was with whom he dwelt in Proverbs 8:12. And did he actually live in a house with seven pillars (Proverbs 9:1)?

God without wisdom?

If Jesus was created, and was also the ‘wisdom of God’ referred to in 1 Corinthians 1:24 then, at some period of time, Jesus did not exist (Proverbs 8:1-4, 12, 22-33). This means that God had to exist without any wisdom, since he had not got around to creating it!

Are we expected to believe that God could have ever been without wisdom? Surely wisdom must be as eternal as God himself, since he is the final and ultimate source of all wisdom (Psalm 147:5; Proverbs 3:19; Jeremiah 10:12; Daniel 2:20-21).


if he wants to discuss this provide answers and we go to the right thread for this...

Smh my head for the way some people reason.

"That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge." (Colossians 2:2-3).

^^^

Since all wisdom was "hid" in Jesus, it means "Yahweh had no wisdom" then, according to you.

Smh.

*sigh*

truthislight:
^^^
Always easy for people to cook up ideas in their head, when asked simple questions, they start ejeculating.

Now, since Jesus was not born of a virgin, who then is the father of Jesus ?

Who fathered Jesus to bring him to life ?

Yahseph was the biological father of THE MAN Yahshua. He was of the seed and a desendant of Dawid and was born a mortal man and is like us in EVERY WAY. We have an earthy father and we have a Heavenly Father just like Yahshua.

Frank4YAHWEH:

Yahseph(Joseph) was the biological father of THE MAN Yahshua. He was of the seed and a desendant of Dawid and was born a mortal man and is like us in EVERY WAY. We have an earthy father and we have a Heavenly Father just like Yahshua.

Ok, from your answer, we have come to see that you are of the view that Joseph had se.x
with mary and planted a seed in her that came to be called Jesus.

If that ^ is true, and Jesus is a blood son of Joseph that we know Joseph was from Adam, and from the scriptures below, we are told that all human blood decendant from Adam was born in sin, how did Jesus managed not to have inherited the sin of Adam from Joseph ?

See:
12 Therefore, just as tsin came into the world through one man, and udeath through sin, and vso death spread to all men1 because wall sinned—(Romans 5:12).

Douah version
[12] Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world, and by sin death; and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have sinned. (Romans 5:12).

^^^

How was it possible for Jesus to be free from the sin of Adam/sinless in other to be able to pay for the sins of Adam for all mankind ?

Please answer ^.

(Dont forget that the OT had taught that we had all been born in sin

truthislight:

Ok, from your answer, we have come to see that you are of the view that Joseph had se.x
with mary and planted a seed in her that came to be called Jesus.

If that ^ is true, and Jesus is a blood son of Joseph that we know Joseph was from Adam, and from the scriptures below, we are told that all human blood decendant from Adam was born in sin, how did Jesus managed not to have inherited the sin of Adam from Joseph ?

See:
12 Therefore, just as tsin came into the world through one man, and udeath through sin, and vso death spread to all men1 because wall sinned—(Romans 5:12).

Douah version
[12] Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world, and by sin death; and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have sinned. (Romans 5:12).

^^^

How was it possible for Jesus to be free from the sin of Adam/sinless in other to be able to pay for the sins of Adam for all mankind ?

Please answer ^.

(Dont forget that the OT had taught that we had all been born in sin

.

Frank4YAHWEH:

Yahseph was the biological father of THE MAN Yahshua. He was of the seed and a desendant of Dawid and was born a mortal man and is like us in EVERY WAY. We have an earthy father and we have a Heavenly Father just like Yahshua.

Jesus did not have a biological father.

truthislight:

Ok, from your answer, we have come to see that you are of the view that Joseph had se.x
with mary and planted a seed in her that came to be called Jesus.

If that ^ is true, and Jesus is a blood son of Joseph that we know Joseph was from Adam, and from the scriptures below, we are told that all human blood decendant from Adam was born in sin, how did Jesus managed not to have inherited the sin of Adam from Joseph ?

See:
12 Therefore, just as tsin came into the world through one man, and udeath through sin, and vso death spread to all men1 because wall sinned—(Romans 5:12).

Douah version
[12] Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world, and by sin death; and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have sinned. (Romans 5:12).

^^^

How was it possible for Jesus to be free from the sin of Adam/sinless in other to be able to pay for the sins of Adam for all mankind ?

Please answer ^.

(Dont forget that the OT had taught that we had all been born in sin

Jesus Christ was conceived by the Holy Ghost that shielded Him from inheriting the sins of Mary while He was in her womb. A guy here did a very convincing explanation of it, and infact counters the immaculate conception doctrine of Catholics about Mary, the Mother of Jesus Christ, whom they say was born without sin. I dont know who did the explanation, might have been Olaagedbu (forgive me for the wrong spelling)

truthislight:

Ok, from your answer, we have come to see that you are of the view that Joseph had se.x
with mary and planted a seed in her that came to be called Jesus.

If that ^ is true, and Jesus is a blood son of Joseph that we know Joseph was from Adam, and from the scriptures below, we are told that all human blood decendant from Adam was born in sin, how did Jesus managed not to have inherited the sin of Adam from Joseph ?

See:
12 Therefore, just as tsin came into the world through one man, and udeath through sin, and vso death spread to all men1 because wall sinned—(Romans 5:12).

Douah version
[12] Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world, and by sin death; and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have sinned. (Romans 5:12).

^^^

How was it possible for Jesus to be free from the sin of Adam/sinless in other to be able to pay for the sins of Adam for all mankind ?

Please answer ^.

(Dont forget that the OT had taught that we had all been born in sin

One is without sin in that they are in obedience to FATHER Yahweh's instruction [torah, law]. Yahshua, FATHER Yahweh's SON found favor ["grace"] with Him in his obedience to Him. One is also without sin when washed as white as snow from sin. It says "... and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—(Romans 5:12). Was not Yahshua a man and is he not said to take on the sins of the whole would or of all mankind? Is not the following prophetic of Yahshua the Messiah:

When your days are over and you rest with your ancestors, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, your own flesh and blood, and I will establish his kingdom. He is the one who will build a house for My Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be his father, and he will be my son. When he does wrong, I will punish him with a rod wielded by men, with floggings inflicted by human hands (2 Samuyl 7:12-14).

For we have not a high priest who cannot be touched with the feeling of our weaknesses; but was in all points tempted like we are, yet without sin (Hebrews 4:15).


Yes, Yahshua was born into a world of sin just as we were, but he instead chose to obey his and our FATHER Yahweh and in turn was without sin. We also can be just as Yahshua and be without sin in that we repent and turn from sin and be washed white as snow. Yes, one does inherit sin (disobedient to FATHER Yahweh) from generations before, but we can be washed clean of all sins. One finds favor ["grace"] with FATHER Yahweh when they obey His instruction and bring forth righteous works. Note that Yahshua told his disciples and the Apostles that they would do greater works than he in that he was leaving and would no longer be with them.

Frank4YAHWEH:

One is without sin in that they are in obedience to FATHER Yahweh's instruction [torah, law]. Yahshua, FATHER Yahweh's SON found favor ["grace"] with Him in his obedience to Him. One is also without sin when washed as white as snow from sin. It says "... and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—(Romans 5:12). Was not Yahshua a man and is he not said to take on the sins of the whole would or of all mankind? Is not the following prophetic of Yahshua the Messiah:

When your days are over and you rest with your ancestors, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, your own flesh and blood, and I will establish his kingdom. He is the one who will build a house for My Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be his father, and he will be my son. When he does wrong, I will punish him with a rod wielded by men, with floggings inflicted by human hands (2 Samuyl 7:12-14).

For we have not a high priest who cannot be touched with the feeling of our weaknesses; but was in all points tempted like we are, yet without sin (Hebrews 4:15).


Yes, Yahshua was born into a world of sin just as we were, but he instead chose to obey his and our FATHER Yahweh and in turn was without sin. We also can be just as Yahshua and be without sin in that we repent and turn from sin and be washed white as snow. Yes, one does inherit sin (disobedient to FATHER Yahweh) from generations before, but we can be washed clean of all sins. One finds favor ["grace"] with FATHER Yahweh when they obey His instruction and bring forth righteous works. Note that Yahshua told his disciples and the Apostles that they would do greater works than he in that he was leaving and would no longer be with them.

No man can be without sin under the law,it's just not possible. If it's possible Adam wouldn't have sinned.Truth is Christ was conceived of the Holy Spirit that's why he knew no sin.

Frank4YAHWEH:

One is without sin in that they are in obedience to FATHER Yahweh's instruction [torah, law]. Yahshua, FATHER Yahweh's SON found favor ["grace"] with Him in his obedience to Him. One is also without sin when washed as white as snow from sin. It says "... and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—(Romans 5:12). Was not Yahshua a man and is he not said to take on the sins of the whole would or of all mankind? Is not the following prophetic of Yahshua the Messiah:

When your days are over and you rest with your ancestors, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, your own flesh and blood, and I will establish his kingdom. He is the one who will build a house for My Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be his father, and he will be my son. When he does wrong, I will punish him with a rod wielded by men, with floggings inflicted by human hands (2 Samuyl 7:12-14).

For we have not a high priest who cannot be touched with the feeling of our weaknesses; but was in all points tempted like we are, yet without sin (Hebrews 4:15).


Yes, Yahshua was born into a world of sin just as we were, but he instead chose to obey his and our FATHER Yahweh and in turn was without sin. We also can be just as Yahshua and be without sin in that we repent and turn from sin and be washed white as snow. Yes, one does inherit sin (disobedient to FATHER Yahweh) from generations before, but we can be washed clean of all sins. One finds favor ["grace"] with FATHER Yahweh when they obey His instruction and bring forth righteous works. Note that Yahshua told his disciples and the Apostles that they would do greater works than he in that he was leaving and would no longer be with them.

Sorry mate, am through with you.

ok you win. so what next?

Bidam: No man can be without sin under the law,it's just not possible. If it's possible Adam wouldn't have sinned.Truth is Christ was conceived of the Holy Spirit that's why he knew no sin.

Yahshua was a man and he was under the law and he was without sin! The fact is though that Adam did disobey Father Yahweh as is written!

truthislight:

Sorry mate, am through with you.

Great! Then I will not have to deal with you any more! LOL!

OliverPin: ok you win. so what next?

Father Yahweh wins in word! What's next? The topic at hand is still open!

Frank4YAHWEH:

Great! Then I will not have to deal with you any more! LOL!

which religion are you?

Bidam: No man can be without sin under the law,it's just not possible. If it's possible Adam wouldn't have sinned.Truth is Christ was conceived of the Holy Spirit that's why he knew no sin.

Does that mean he never sinned because he knew no sin or does the bible not say he was tempted and yet overcame sin willingly ?

Did Jesus not resist sin till he bled on the cross ?

"4 In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood." - Hebrews 12;4

or

"For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are--yet he did not sin." - Hebrews 4:15


Though I am with you on the virgin birth, it is incorrect to say that he never sinned because he was without sin at the beginning, this is not true, Jesus never sinned because he overcame sin, otherwise , why will Peter admonish us to follow his example which goes :

"For God called you to do good, even if it means suffering, just as Christ suffered for you. He is your example, and you must follow in his steps" - 1 Peter 2:21

Jesus Christ overcame the devil, the world and SATAN , and that is why he is glorified at the right hand of God because accordsing to Hebrews 1 :

"You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”[e]" - Hebrews 1:9

benalvino:

which religion are you?

I am not affiliated with any religious organization "of this world."

frosbel:

Does that mean he never sinned because he knew no sin or does the bible not say he was tempted and yet overcame sin willingly ?

Did Jesus not resist sin till he bled on the cross ?

"4 In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood." - Hebrews 12;4

or

"For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are--yet he did not sin." - Hebrews 4:15


Though I am with you on the virgin birth, it is incorrect to say that he never sinned because he was without sin at the beginning, this is not true, Jesus never sinned because he overcame sin, otherwise , why will Peter admonish us to follow his example which goes :

"For God called you to do good, even if it means suffering, just as Christ suffered for you. He is your example, and you must follow in his steps" - 1 Peter 2:21

Jesus Christ overcame the devil, the world and SATAN , and that is why he is glorified at the right hand of God because accordsing to Hebrews 1 :

"You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”[e]" - Hebrews 1:9

Christ had no sin nature in him hence he could not commit the act. You and I inherited sin through Adam, Jesus circumvent the adamic nature because he did not come through intercourse between a man and a woman.

shdemidemi:


Christ had no sin nature in him hence he could not commit the act. You and I inherited sin through Adam, Jesus circumvent the adamic nature because he did not come through intercourse between a man and a woman.

so all the tempting was for fun or some sort of prank , joke perhaps ?

I mean why will SATAN tempt Jesus if he knew he could not SIN, was he part of this scam ?

Common bro, Jesus Christ the Messiah and King of Kings actually fought against SIN and overcame it according to Hebrews 4:15.

shdemidemi:

You and I inherited sin through Adam, Jesus circumvented the adamic sin because he did not come through intercourse between a man and a woman.

^^^
he came clean = perfect.

But had the potential to sin just as Adam, Eve, Angels all did sinned though they all had a perfect start

frosbel:

so all the tempting was for fun or some sort of prank , joke perhaps ?

I mean why will SATAN tempt Jesus if he knew he could not SIN, was he part of this scam ?

Common bro, Jesus Christ the Messiah and King of Kings actually fought against SIN and overcame it according to Hebrews 4:15.

"They that trust in their wealth, and boast themselves in the multitude of their riches; None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him: (For the redemption of their soul is precious, and it ceaseth for ever: ) That he should still live for ever, and not see corruption." (Psalm 49:6-9).

^^^

No human from Adam no son from the blood of Adam could have paid the ransom.

Impossible!

frosbel:

so all the tempting was for fun or some sort of prank , joke perhaps ?

I mean why will SATAN tempt Jesus if he knew he could not SIN, was he part of this scam ?

Common bro, Jesus Christ the Messiah and King of Kings actually fought against SIN and overcame it according to Hebrews 4:15.

Satan is susceptible to any information that is revealed. Satan went to test Christ to confirm the status of him being the son of God.

How would Christ fight against sin when he does not have the nature in him, He could not.
Hebrews 4
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

The verse never said he struggled like you and I would struggle with sin.

Sin and death came through Adam, therefore, any offspring of Adam came into the world as a sinner (dead on arrival). We are made alive by the gospel of Christ. Christ himself was not a man like you and I but he was made in the likeness of a man.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Adam on the other hand was not made like a man, he was actually a man made in God's image.

shdemidemi:

Satan is susceptible to any information that is revealed. Satan went to test Christ to confirm the status of him being the son of God.

How would he fight against sin when he does not have the nature in him, He could not.
Hebrews 4
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

The verse never said he struggled like you and I would struggle with sin.

Sin and death came through Adam, therefore, any offspring of Adam came into the world as a sinner (dead on arrival). We are made alive by the gospel of Christ. Christ himself was not a man like you and I but he was made in the likeness of a man.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Adam on the other hand was not made like a man, he was actually a man made in God's image.

and now we are made in adams image not God's image...

benalvino:

and now we are made in adams image not God's image...

I still don't know where you got this crappy gospel from....

1 corinthians 11:7

New International Version
(©2011)
A man ought not to cover his head,
since he is the image and glory of
God; but woman is the glory of
man.


International Standard Version
(©2012)
A man should not cover his head,
because he exists as God's image
and glory. But the woman is man's
glory.

Is adam God??....

Smh!!!.....

Sometimes I don't know where you are heading to......