maclatunji:

No need for conjecture, the facts are clear in the Quran. The fact that you are confused does not mean I or any other person would join you in confusion.

there is a contradiction and you are saying someone is confused.

you cant explain yursef, yet you wont listen to some elses explanation. am sorry for you

this is what you said

Maclatunji:
What makes you think the 'raising' in that verse has occured? You keep displaying your ignorance.

but up till now you have not told us what type of raising up Jesus was raised up, if the raising up in that verse has not occured. keyword: raised alive

deSika: trying to play the trademark muslim denial. the verse says raised alive. its an english word and i understand what it means. i was not the one that translated it so.

Okay, you don't like the assignment, here is a more simple one, in the same surah you quoted, check verse 15, what does it state? And what is your view about it. Thanks

@desika: he said raised alive as a babe talking to the elders of the jews. do you realize it could not have happened when he was talking? and it didn't the future process is opened till it happens. Quran says it has not happened yet by the saying they did not kill him [even with other method] and they did not crucify him [as you desika have agreed].

RoyPCain:


@desika; no where did the verse say anyone was killed or he looked like Jesus. This is your own imagination and i am not surprised because all the apologists are in the same pot you just show us that you are in here. Have you heard of holography? even though i am just suggesting thats what it is, but i am saying that humans are able to fool your sight by holography. Allah the Almighty is capable of letting the see wrong [their truth] they wished to see since they heard wrong saying "Jesus of the cross" was calling for Prophet Eli [their own mockery of his 'condition']. Did he call for Prophet Eli, desika?

o man, i thought both of us have been tru with wat Jesus said on the cross. Eli meaning my God. am really dissapointed but not surprised anyway.

the verse says, They slew him not, nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them. were they watching it in a movie that someone was killed. how did it appear so unto them, if not that they
1. killed someone actually crucified someone
2. the person that was killed appeared as Jesus to them.

your reasoning skills has always been like this, so am not surprised

RoyPCain:
when the truth is told to you, just because it disagrees with what you accept, you want it to disagree all the way, therefore mixing lies [you want] with the truth [you rejected]. It does not happen that way. If the jews were friends of Jesus, why would Jesus be asking God to help him by preserving his life from their hands? that should be your focus of reasoning. What do you call those who God reject their plea? are they not sinners and or the rejected? is that what you want for Jesus?

hahaha muslims say Jesus was not crucified. it would have made sense to that if Jesus was in good terms with the jews and as such there was no need for any killing. but if the jews wanted to kill Jesus and looked for every possible means to kill him and infact killed him, then why will any sensible person say Jesus was not killed. uhn

RoyPCain:
There is no statement that you can use to indicate that Quran says somebody was killed. If you know any irrefutable verse, bring it from the Quran. Example; your earlier made it seem to me that from the village [lol]. Mr. Desika, can you conclude from what i just said about you and village means that I just confirmed that definitely you are from the village? Looking like Jesus may be ordinary 'nothing' as in holograph. God can do better for His prophet [as] so that the enemies are not victorious. or you want the enemies to be victorious? If bomb was invented back then, the jews would have thought about it. ask the british and king david's hotel. There is no death is what Quran says.

again what does it appeared so unto them mean. think.

RoyPCain:
Not in the Quran you will read God changing appearance of anyone. You will not find it in the hadith either. humans, muslims or not err. so when somebody proposes, if its wrong you cant say its what God said. It is made seem so to them does not say here is the details; its appearance somebody named or unnamed that was changed. Allah is not unjust to any creature. so if He didn't let people kill innocent Jesus, He will not kill somebody in place of Jesus to satisfy anyone. Allah does not have to satisfy you or I, but we have to and whoever does not there is consequence for it, except that Allah forgives him.

interseting write up you have here. so do mind doing me the favour. help me contact yur muslim brothers, vedaxcool, lagosShia and the rest. tell them that God cannot put the appearance of someone on another person. tell them that no Judas or Simon was impersonating Jesus. hahaha. i bet you dont know what you just said

RoyPCain:
if i was asked I will say a sinner who deserved it. But is Jesus a sinner? Does he deserve to die by hanging? is it a honorable death to die by hanging? do evil community agrees to kill a Godly person? does God allow Gold person be killed by the evil enemies of the Godly person who are also enemies of God [stand by your messenger is a good song here and God is not unjust to His creatures and He does not abandon His Elects], especially when God is besieged for protection? this goes to the heart of the biblical test of who a true prophet is and any who spoke falsely. Is Jesus a true prophet if he asked God for protection and you say God refused? you have to answer each of my proposals?

sorry cheif, question not yet answered. playing the dodging game uhn

if you were asked who exactly was being killed, what would you say. remember you were there during the killing.

RoyPCain:

for more pls read
https://www.nairaland.com/1271315/dilema-muslims-crucifixion?

yes go to that thread and see how your brothers ran away after being shown the truth.

They are saying indirectly that jesus was not crucified and did not die. In the same vein he ascended to heaven. How did he ascend? Did he use chariots like Elijah? Do any islam sources show how he ascended to heaven?

deSika:
o man, i thought both of us have been tru with wat Jesus said on the cross. Eli meaning my God. am really dissapointed but not surprised anyway.

the verse says, They slew him not, nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them. were they watching it in a movie that someone was killed. how did it appear so unto them, if not that they
1. killed someone actually crucified someone
2. the person that was killed appeared as Jesus to them.

your reasoning skills has always been like this, so am not surprised



hahaha muslims say Jesus was not crucified. it would have made sense to that if Jesus was in good terms with the jews and as such there was no need for any killing. but if the jews wanted to kill Jesus and looked for every possible means to kill him and infact killed him, then why will any sensible person say Jesus was not killed. uhn


again what does it appeared so unto them mean. think.


interseting write up you have here. so do mind doing me the favour. help me contact yur muslim brothers, vedaxcool, lagosShia and the rest. tell them that God cannot put the appearance of someone on another person. tell them that no Judas or Simon was impersonating Jesus. hahaha. i bet you dont know what you just said

sorry cheif, question not yet answered. playing the dodging game uhn

if you were asked who exactly was being killed, what would you say. remember you were there during the killing.


yes go to that thread and see how your brothers ran away after being shown the truth.

RoyPCain: @desika: he said raised alive as a babe talking to the elders of the jews. do you realize it could not have happened when he was talking? and it didn't the future process is opened till it happens. Quran says it has not happened yet by the saying they did not kill him [even with other method] and they did not crucify him [as you desika have agreed].

there is no realising anything oga. the verse is straight forward.

birth, death and then raised up.

and not birth, raised up, death, raised up. hehehe abegii. hoow you want take deny this one

as far as i am concerned Jesus has been raised up according to islamic tradition. now what baffles me is that muslims say he did not die before this his raised up experience. falsehood raised to power 10 if i may say.

In a bid to validate quran The order is birth-ascension-descension to earth- live as a normal muslim( probably go on Hajj) - fight dajjal- die on earth for once- get raised to heaven! Even Comedy cant come close.

deSika:
there is no realising anything oga. the verse is straight forward.

birth, death and then raised up.

and not birth, raised up, death, raised up. hehehe abegii. hoow you want take deny this one

as far as i am concerned Jesus has been raised up according to islamic tradition. now what baffles me is that he did not die before this his raised up experience. falsehood raised to power 10 if i may say.

deSika: this is what you said


but up till now you have not told us what type of raising up Jesus was raised up, if the raising up in that verse has not occured. keyword: raised alive

LWKMD! Is there anything like being 'raised dead'? This guy should stop making a fool of himself.

deSika:

the verse says Jesus life cycle would be

birth - death - raised up

but Maclatunji says Jesus life cycle would be

birth - raised up - come down - death - raised up


which one should i take. the quran or Maclantunji's verse

Ride on brother. You are on course.

maclatunji:

LWKMD! Is there anything like being 'raised dead'? This guy should stop making a fool of himself.

Where did you see anybody or prophet raised alive? Elijah WENT to heaven alive, not raised. You raise the dead not the living.

If Jesus was so special to Allah in islam that he would not allow him to be killed, why did he allow Muhammad to be poisoned? You mean Muhammad was not special to Allah.

maclatunji:

LWKMD! Is there anything like being 'raised dead'? This guy should stop making a fool of himself.

for your mind you have said something kwo. keep dodging the issue being discussed you hear.

yu said "What makes you think the 'raising' in that verse has occured? You keep displaying your ignorance."
its now left for you to tell me which raising was Jesus raised up. and how many times someone can be raised up.


while yu are at it. just keep in mind that your quran contradicts itself about the crucifixion issue
1. it says Jesus would die before being raised up, he has already being raised up, it follows that he has already died then.
2. it says it seemed unto the jews that they were killing Jesus, yet in reality they were actually doing it.

@desika; there is more than one raising up. I will use your bible to illustrate 2.

A] raised up to heaven without being dead. Example of a person raised up this way; Elijah.

B] raised up to the top of the earth become a living, after being dead and buried. Example of a group raised up this way:
the saints.

Coming to Quran that you have accused. since Allah gave Jesus speech to say he was born, he will die and he will be raised up after, The Very God Allah says Jesus was not crucified or was he killed at all by any method in surah Nisaa.

in chapters 3 and 5 below you will see consistency of Allah not wavering and definitely He can do all things He will;

3/54-6 He will raise Jesus up to free him of the plots against his life and the plotters shall be damned; 54;And (then unbelievers) plotted and planned and Allah too planned and the best of planners is Allah.
55; Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject Faith to the Day of Resurrection; then shall ye all return unto Me and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.
56; "As to those who reject faith I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter nor will they have anyone to help.

And in 5/110 on the Day of Judgment, Allah will interrogate Jesus restating to Jesus and all that He prevented death to come to him by the hands of the children of Israel; [The Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, remember My favor upon you and upon your mother when I supported you with the Pure Spirit and you spoke to the people in the cradle and in maturity; and [remember] when I taught you writing and wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and when you designed from clay [what was] like the form of a bird with My permission, then you breathed into it, and it became a bird with My permission; and you healed the blind and the leper with My permission; and when you brought forth the dead with My permission; and when I restrained the Children of Israel from [killing] you when you came to them with clear proofs and those who disbelieved among them said, "This is not but obvious magic."

from the above, there is no way that anyone can say Quran says Jesus was killed before he was raised up. He he were to have been raised up, then there is no reason to be returning him. What we see clearly therefore was that in his first miracle he spoke to defend his mother along with tell them his future.

The future belongs to God as the fine details are His alone to determine. Jesus was not allowed to be humiliated so God raised him up, while making the plan of the evil doers worthless.

I love prophet ISA (pbuh). There's one thing I've always taken notice of his mode of teaching. He makes illustration his key to open hearts to his lectures.

Will my christian people here agree with me that the illustration jesus christ gave as the type of the miracle he shall shewn his people is that of jonah (who spent 3days and 3 nights in the belly of the fish) and jesus said "so shall the son of man (I.e him) spend it in the heart of the earth. I will be derailing this thread with a fresh argument should I ask if jonah was alive or dead (xtians will start fumbling for words to paint him as dead), but the fact was that "he was alive". Then if we are to agree with the fact of jonah's livelihood coupled with the fact that jesus' illustration is to be adhered to, then it proves he (ISA) did not die.

The bible even started fumbling from the begining, as it was not sure if it was Jesus himself who carried the cross to golgotha or simon of cyrene.

Now to the verse quoted.

Blessing be to him, the day he was born. Every muslims agree and say a very big ameen to that.

Blessings be to him the day HE WOULD DIE; every muslim believes he is coming back to fulfil his destiny and afterwards, he shall DIE.

Blessings be unto him, the day he shall be raised; and yes!, he shall be raised when every bit of every soul is raised.

I'll only hope my explanation can help you, but I'll like you guys to look for another means of claiming jesus christ died. This one won't help you.

RoyPCain: @desika; there is more than one raising up. I will use your bible to illustrate 2.

ooga you don start to dey fail be that, we are talking about what quran says. the topic is another quranic perspective. can you kindly show from your quran the more than one type of raising up.

RoyPCain:
A] raised up to heaven without being dead. Example of a person raised up this way; Elijah.

B] raised up to the top of the earth become a living, after being dead and buried. Example of a group raised up this way:
the saints.

Coming to Quran that you have accused. since Allah gave Jesus speech to say he was born, he will die and he will be raised up after, The Very God Allah says Jesus was not crucified or was he killed at all by any method in surah Nisaa.

in chapters 3 and 5 below you will see consistency of Allah not wavering and definitely He can do all things He will;

3/54-6 He will raise Jesus up to free him of the plots against his life and the plotters shall be damned; 54;And (then unbelievers) plotted and planned and Allah too planned and the best of planners is Allah.
55; Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject Faith to the Day of Resurrection; then shall ye all return unto Me and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.
56; "As to those who reject faith I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter nor will they have anyone to help.

And in 5/110 on the Day of Judgment, Allah will interrogate Jesus restating to Jesus and all that He prevented death to come to him by the hands of the children of Israel; [The Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, remember My favor upon you and upon your mother when I supported you with the Pure Spirit and you spoke to the people in the cradle and in maturity; and [remember] when I taught you writing and wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and when you designed from clay [what was] like the form of a bird with My permission, then you breathed into it, and it became a bird with My permission; and you healed the blind and the leper with My permission; and when you brought forth the dead with My permission; and when I restrained the Children of Israel from [killing] you when you came to them with clear proofs and those who disbelieved among them said, "This is not but obvious magic."

from the above, there is no way that anyone can say Quran says Jesus was killed before he was raised up. He he were to have been raised up, then there is no reason to be returning him. What we see clearly therefore was that in his first miracle he spoke to defend his mother along with tell them his future.

The future belongs to God as the fine details are His alone to determine. Jesus was not allowed to be humiliated so God raised him up, while making the plan of the evil doers worthless.

now oga, how does all the above explain the fact that Jesus was raised up but bypassed death in contrast to what was written in the verse in the op.

golpen: I love prophet ISA (pbuh). There's one thing I've always taken notice of his mode of teaching. He makes illustration his key to open hearts to his lectures.

Will my christian people here agree with me that the illustration jesus christ gave as the type of the miracle he shall shewn his people is that of jonah (who spent 3days and 3 nights in the belly of the fish) and jesus said "so shall the son of man (I.e him) spend it in the heart of the earth. I will be derailing this thread with a fresh argument should I ask if jonah was alive or dead (xtians will start fumbling for words to paint him as dead), but the fact was that "he was alive". Then if we are to agree with the fact of jonah's livelihood coupled with the fact that jesus' illustration is to be adhered to, then it proves he (ISA) did not die.

The bible even started fumbling from the begining, as it was not sure if it was Jesus himself who carried the cross to golgotha or simon of cyrene.

Now to the verse quoted.

Blessing be to him, the day he was born. Every muslims agree and say a very big ameen to that.

Blessings be to him the day HE WOULD DIE; every muslim believes he is coming back to fulfil his destiny and afterwards, he shall DIE.

Blessings be unto him, the day he shall be raised; and yes!, he shall be raised when every bit of every soul is raised.

I'll only hope my explanation can help you, but I'll like you guys to look for another means of claiming jesus christ died. This one won't help you.

this one that jesus is no longer on earth, how did he go. your quran says he was raised up.

now my question is this, this raised up that he was raised up so, why do you think he did not die before this raising up according to what the verse in the op says.

2. why did the verse not talk about Jesus birth, Jesus first raising up, Jesus coming back, Jesus death, and then Jesus second raising u. does he not know that this is how he was supposed to go.



permit me to put it to you that the verse actually proves yu wrong no matter how you try to twist the truth. the verse says Jesus will die before his being raised up. if he has been raised up as we speak, it means that he must have died before being raised up.

2. if the verse didnt say that Jesus will be raised twice, then i put it to you that you are manufacturing your own doctrine. thats falsehoood

3. if it appeared unto the jews that they were killing the right Jesus according to what your quran says in that "they killed him not verse" then you have no right to say Jesus was not killed. because the people that did the killing they were killing someone that looked like Jesus, and no body looks like Jesus apart from Jesus.

thank you

^'I will pick and choose whatever interpretation that suits me' is this guy's motto. You are proving to yourself that you are a disbeliever. So, what is new about that?

#Pathetic

deSika: friend how do you explain this

Quran 19:33
peace on me the day [1] i was born, and [2] the day i die, and the day [3] i shall be raised alive.

he was supposed to die before being raised up. so why the shortcut. he jumped dieing and was now raised. something is not right, cant yu see it

The raise here is of the day of judgement.

The day of accountability. Jesus is yet to be raised

deols:

The raise here is of the day of judgement.

The day of accountability. Jesus is yet to be raised

''.....the raise here is of the day of judgement''

So he will be re-born and die to be raised on judgement day?

How does islam say Jesus will come again?

1. To be born by a virgin like Mary.

2. To be born by a muslim with many wives?

3. To jump down from the sky where he disappeared to?

The muslims should be able to answer those questions with acceptable proof(s).

Thanks.

I'm still amazed by the way xtians are becoming irrational about this issue. If you all insist that Jesus died, then you are calling Jesus himself a liar! And if you insist the Qur'an must tell you in that verse that the raising up must be twice, then you are blaming Jesus for not saying his own will be a bit different from that of Jonah (who didn't die).

You guys have been tied in between your confusion. You guys have always read a series of hadith and condemned the prophet out of your bigotic ignorance, but have not taken your time to read the hadith as to how Jesus will be descended when he visits the earth the second time.

The words of ALLAH are designed to interwovenly support themselves (no contradictions). You guys are yet to keep up with the mystery and can never find a fault no matter how anatagonising your views are. Verily, HE hath challenged you all unbileivers, to bring forth your own verses, if you'll ever match that of the Qur'an. Some of you are begining to see the truth, but your natural hate, or coyness to see people 'whoa' at you for accepting is depriving you your freedom and that won't also help you.

maclatunji: ^'I will pick and choose whatever interpretation that suits me' is this guy's motto. You are proving to yourself that you are a disbeliever. So, what is new about that?

#Pathetic

typical
Mac never makes any meaningful contribution apart from
#you are confused,
#you are showing that you are are unbeliever
you are this, yoou are that

deols:

The raise here is of the day of judgement.

The day of accountability. Jesus is yet to be raised

ok, Ma'am, thank you for going straight to the point.

but i have a question for you.
this one that Jesus is no longer on earth how did he leave. was it not by being raised up according to your traditions.

does it make sense that Jesus is raised up before death as seen in that verse.

could you point out to me where quran says Jesus will be raised twice. thanks

@desika; we are friends. right? so hard feelings.

now oga, how does all the above explain the fact that Jesus was raised up but bypassed death in contrast to what was written in the verse in the op.

if you dont think God can raise Jesus up without letting him die first, has God raised John son of Zacharia up, yet since they are supposed to have the raised up? And how did God raise Elijah up; dead or alive? what is the up in the raising up of Elijah and why is not the same up with Jesus?

which are more likely for God to do in the lives of good people? Make your selections from the listed below;

1] create him without covering up his mother.
1a] cover his mother up so that he come out as a baby though not as a creation.


2] accept his prayer by restricting the hands of evil doers away from him.
2a] reject his payer no matter how fervent it is and let the evil doers toy with him until the snuff live out of him.


3] raise him up alive into heaven in body and soul without letting him die a despicable death
3a] raise him upafter badly calculated 3rd passing for 3 days and 3 nights, when there is a doubt he died at all.

4] God saying you are only guessing since you dont know for sure.
4a] you are God is mistaken because you read account of 3 generation of eye witnesses writing as the absent disciples.


desika says God is the father of a child because he doesnt have a father [a lot of dr. use sperm bank to get pregnant], so it must be God Who did it since she was over shadowed and came upon. Yet you find it impossible to accept God can raise a person up away from harms.


what logic.

usba:

God does the same thing in the bible countless number of times;

2 Thessalonians 2:11

For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

The above answers your question! Anymore?

First it is the Quran that said the face on the cross was changed.
Second Quoting from the Bible a supposedly corrupt book to support the "holy Quran"? This is a no no, you are cheating. Third Quoting apostle Paul who when it suits your convenience you say he introduced falsehood to christians? Do you want to deceive me?.
Fourth based on Islams' position that scripture has been corrupted by "we don't know by who but it is corrupt anyway" so it is not acceptable. You must use verses from the Quran to support what you are saying. The corrupt book is off limits.

LET THERE BE SILENCE AND LISTEN TO THIS THOUGHTFULLY,CAREFULLY AND WITHOUT PREJUDICE.

in islam, jesus is believed as an ordinary human and no divinity attached. therefore when the quran talks about him it is from human perspective. he is expected to be born and to die like every human. isn't it?

so when the quran says he was born, to die and to be raised, it is talking about him as an ordinary human, who cannot escape death. so the order of jesus life as a human being was supposed to be as follows:

1. birth

2. death

3. raise

as a man, why should he jump no. 2 and move to 3. that would mean a disorder of human life. even muhammad your ''greatest'' prophet could not jump death, why jesus?

THE COMING BACK OF JESUS IN ISLAM IS A FICTION. allah. did not say it in the quran. it was the making of muhammad and his followers, probably they heard it from the bible.

as far as allah is concern, jesus is not coming again to be raised. HE DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

thank you all.

RoyPCain: @desika; we are friends. right? so hard feelings.

no problem.

if you dont think God can raise Jesus up without letting him die first,

i think you should address this question to the speaker in that verse. Ask him why does he not think that he can be raised before death. Why does he think that he has to die first before being raised.

has God raised John son of Zacharia up, yet since they are supposed to have the raised up? And how did God raise Elijah up; dead or alive? what is the up in the raising up of Elijah and why is not the same up with Jesus?

which are more likely for God to do in the lives of good people? Make your selections from the listed below;

1] create him without covering up his mother.
1a] cover his mother up so that he come out as a baby though not as a creation.


2] accept his prayer by restricting the hands of evil doers away from him.
2a] reject his payer no matter how fervent it is and let the evil doers toy with him until the snuff live out of him.


3] raise him up alive into heaven in body and soul without letting him die a despicable death
3a] raise him upafter badly calculated 3rd passing for 3 days and 3 nights, when there is a doubt he died at all.

4] God saying you are only guessing since you dont know for sure.
4a] you are God is mistaken because you read account of 3 generation of eye witnesses writing as the absent disciples.


desika says God is the father of a child because he doesnt have a father [a lot of dr. use sperm bank to get pregnant], so it must be God Who did it since she was over shadowed and came upon. Yet you find it impossible to accept God can raise a person up away from harms.


what logic.

chief i didnt know that you have started setting jamb questions on nairaland.

Am sure you would have noticed that am not arguing from a bible perspective. That one is a settled case. As there is no confusion about the death of Jesus in the bible. Am trying to address the confusion in the quran. So if u dont mind drop the bible and comeover to the quran. Thank u

so we are where the quran says birth and then death and then raised up. Now you say Jesus was raised up but why dont you agree with this verse that death has to take place before this raising up.

If you think that there will be two raising up. Why dont you show from the quran where it says Jesus would be raised up twice.

Oya ova to you

cleanvessel: LET THERE BE SILENCE AND LISTEN TO THIS THOUGHTFULLY,CAREFULLY AND WITHOUT PREJUDICE.

in islam, jesus is believed as an ordinary human and no divinity attached. therefore when the quran talks about him it is from human perspective. he is expected to be born and to die like every human. isn't it?

so when the quran says he was born, to die and to be raised, it is talking about him as an ordinary human, who cannot escape death. so the order of jesus life as a human being was supposed to be as follows:

1. birth

2. death

3. raise

as a man, why should he jump no. 2 and move to 3. that would mean a disorder of human life. even muhammad your ''greatest'' prophet could not jump death, why jesus?

THE COMING BACK OF JESUS IN ISLAM IS A FICTION. allah. did not say it in the quran. it was the making of muhammad and his followers, probably they heard it from the bible.

as far as allah is concern, jesus is not coming again to be raised. HE DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

thank you all.

bro good point. i have been trying to ask them where thier Allah mentioned the double raising up of Jesus as they want to claim, yet no answer.

@andromida;

by andromida(f): 11:07am

usba:

God does the same thing in the bible countless number of times;

2 Thessalonians 2:11

For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

The above answers your question! Anymore?


First it is the Quran that said the face on the cross was changed.
Second Quoting from the Bible a supposedly corrupt book to support the "holy Quran"? This is a no no, you are cheating. Third Quoting apostle Paul who when it suits your convenience you say he introduced falsehood to christians? Do you want to deceive me?.
Fourth based on Islams' position that scripture has been corrupted by "we don't know by who but it is corrupt anyway" so it is not acceptable. You must use verses from the Quran to support what you are saying. The corrupt book is off limits.

please quote the verse of the Quran that says the face on the cross was changed. i want to read it kia, kia. one time. i know you will not be able to get what i asked, corrupt minded person you are. see. i finally used corruption in a sentence to describe a real person only to show that the corruption is only the mind, not the physical. you are still a person. yes? of course. if the only corruption in your mind is what you said about the Quran, can we say you are alway pure body and mind? same thing the bibles; first more that one complete Bible. we only quote from the bible what Quran agrees with it upon. We will not quote to you from the Bible that all prophets are males, while you have female prophets in the Bible. Paul must play a small role in its corruption. at least no circumcision, and you can eat what you want, while you disregard God but concentrate on Jesus alone. you anromida seem to be the one doing the cheating.

@cleanvessel and desika;

by deSika(m): 12:53pm

cleanvessel: LET THERE BE SILENCE AND LISTEN TO THIS THOUGHTFULLY,CAREFULLY AND WITHOUT PREJUDICE.

in islam, jesus is believed as an ordinary human and no divinity attached. therefore when the quran talks about him it is from human perspective. he is expected to be born and to die like every human. isn't it?

so when the quran says he was born, to die and to be raised, it is talking about him as an ordinary human, who cannot escape death. so the order of jesus life as a human being was supposed to be as follows:

1. birth

2. death

3. raise

as a man, why should he jump no. 2 and move to 3. that would mean a disorder of human life. even muhammad your ''greatest'' prophet could not jump death, why jesus?

THE COMING BACK OF JESUS IN ISLAM IS A FICTION. Allah. did not say it in the quran. it was the making of muhammad and his followers, probably they heard it from the bible.

as far as Allah is concern, jesus is not coming again to be raised. HE DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

thank you all.

bro good point. i have been trying to ask them where thier Allah mentioned the double raising up of Jesus as they want to claim, yet no answer.

the beauty of Islam is truly beauty. if Jesus is to die, must he die a death that is horrific enough that his body does not know peace, when is Lord has guaranteed the opposite? like Elijah, Jesus was raised up and he Jesus will return and it in the return that the raising up after death will take place. this should settle it, now. abi?


just like Elijah, Jesus jumped 2 to 3 and he will return to go to 2.

Surah 43 verse talks about the returning to be a sign of the hour is approaching; .
And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour) but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way.

@cleanvessel and desika;

by deSika(m): 12:53pm

cleanvessel: LET THERE BE SILENCE AND LISTEN TO THIS THOUGHTFULLY,CAREFULLY AND WITHOUT PREJUDICE.

in islam, jesus is believed as an ordinary human and no divinity attached. therefore when the quran talks about him it is from human perspective. he is expected to be born and to die like every human. isn't it?

so when the quran says he was born, to die and to be raised, it is talking about him as an ordinary human, who cannot escape death. so the order of jesus life as a human being was supposed to be as follows:

1. birth

2. death

3. raise

as a man, why should he jump no. 2 and move to 3. that would mean a disorder of human life. even muhammad your ''greatest'' prophet could not jump death, why jesus?

THE COMING BACK OF JESUS IN ISLAM IS A FICTION. Allah. did not say it in the quran. it was the making of muhammad and his followers, probably they heard it from the bible.

as far as Allah is concern, jesus is not coming again to be raised. HE DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

thank you all.

bro good point. i have been trying to ask them where thier Allah mentioned the double raising up of Jesus as they want to claim, yet no answer.

the beauty of Islam is truly beauty. if Jesus is to die, must he die a death that is horrific enough that his body does not know peace, when is Lord has guaranteed the opposite? like Elijah, Jesus was raised up and he Jesus will return and it in the return that the raising up after death will take place. this should settle it, now. abi?


just like Elijah, Jesus jumped 2 to 3 and he will return to go to 2.

Surah 43 verse talks about the returning to be a sign of the hour is approaching; .
And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour) but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way.

RoyPCain: @cleanvessel and desika;

the beauty of Islam is truly beauty. if Jesus is to die, must he die a death that is horrific enough that his body does not know peace, when is Lord has guaranteed the opposite? like Elijah, Jesus was raised up and he Jesus will return and it in the return that the raising up after death will take place. this should settle it, now. abi?


[size=13pt]just like Elijah, Jesus jumped 2 to 3 and he will return to go to 2. [/size]

Surah 43 verse talks about the returning to be a sign of the hour is approaching; .
And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour) but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way.

this is wat i call sophisticated delusion.
am wondering why your Jesus did not say in Quran 19:33
peace on me the day i was born, the day i will be raised up, the day i will come back the day i die, and the day i shall be raised again.

perhaps we should have roypcains version of quran.

need i remind you that the verse only talks about one raising up, and before this raising up his death must occur. and as we speak Jesus has been raised. it therefore follows that for that verse to be true, he must die before he is raised. except you are telling me that that verse is false

final word:
the quran never mentions 2 raising up. so for a muslim to talk about two raising up means they are wiser than the qurans author

the qurans says Jesus must need die before being raised, as at now Jesus has been raised so it follows that Jesus must have died. for a muslim to deny this just shows the muslims ability to deny his own quran

the quran seems to suggest that the person that was crucified looked like Jesus[it appeared so] but was not Jesus. but the humble truth is that no body looks like Jesus apart from Jesus himself.

the truth keeps showing itsself. there was a death. but muslims keep denying it. may God open their eyes

deSika: i hear muslims with the claim that Jesus did not die on the cross. but recently i came across a verse in the quran which points otherwise. now i would ask nl muslims to ponder on this verse of the quran and see that it contradicts the one that says they killed him not.

Quran 19:33
peace on me the day i was born, and the day i die, and the day i shall be raised alive.

what is Jesus saying here
1. the day he was born
2. the day he will die
3, the day he shall be raised

its clear that the above follows chronologically. now if he will die before he is raised, why do muslims still continue with the notion that Jesus did not die. is the person speaking above said to be lieing about the second point.

final word: the abve clearly teaches that Jesus will die before he will be raised. this only further points to the contradictions in the quran

The Islamic view that Jesus did not die is that:
1) He ASCENDED to God

2) He will return back to earth and DIE, and will later on be RESURRECTED.

It is clear in Sura 19:33 and the Surah talks about:

1) His birth

2) His death

3) The day he gets RESURRECTED.

The correct interpretation of Sura 19:33 is as follows:

And Salam (peace) be upon me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!) He (`Isa) will live, die and be resurrected, just like the other creatures that Allah has created.