deSika:

this is wat i call sophisticated delusion.
am wondering why your Jesus did not say in Quran 19:33
peace on me the day i was born, the day i will be raised up, the day i will come back the day i die, and the day i shall be raised again.

perhaps we should have roypcains version of quran.

need i remind you that the verse only talks about one raising up, and before this raising up his death must occur. and as we speak Jesus has been raised. it therefore follows that for that verse to be true, he must die before he is raised. except you are telling me that that verse is false

final word:
the quran never mentions 2 raising up. so for a muslim to talk about two raising up means they are wiser than the qurans author

the qurans says Jesus must need die before being raised, as at now Jesus has been raised so it follows that Jesus must have died. for a muslim to deny this just shows the muslims ability to deny his own quran

the quran seems to suggest that the person that was crucified looked like Jesus[it appeared so] but was not Jesus. but the humble truth is that no body looks like Jesus apart from Jesus himself.

the truth keeps showing itsself. there was a death. but muslims keep denying it. may God open their eyes

ayenny02:
The Islamic view that Jesus did not die is that:

ayenny02:
1) He ASCENDED to God

ayenny02:
2) He will return back to earth and DIE, and will later on be RESURRECTED.

ayenny02:
It is clear in Sura 19:33 and the Surah talks about:

1) His birth

2) His death

3) The day he gets RESURRECTED.

The correct interpretation of Sura 19:33 is as follows:

And Salam (peace) be upon me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!) He (`Isa) will live, die and be resurrected, just like the other creatures that Allah has created.

maclatunji:

Simple, death is key. It is like asking- why didn't Jonah (Yunus AS) die in the belly of the whale? If you are not dead, you are not dead and being raised from death would not be applicable to you.

Of course, this is beyond you. #LOL

maclatunji: How to think/act like Desika:

1. Select a verse of the Qur'an.

2. Completely misinterpret it.

3. Claim that your misinterpretation is actually what the Qur'an has always been saying.

4. Turn around to debunk your misinterpretation.

5. Thump your chest and punch your fist in the air after showing "those Muslims" who's boss.

Caveat: There is a natural consequence that rational people will identify you as delusional, irrational in thinking and needing help from God-knows-where if you follow in Desika's footsteps.

#LOL

deSika: so sir but your islamic view is different from the quranic view
true, this is point 3 of op
where is it written
thats wat am saying oga. he has already done 1 and 3, it means that he has also done 2. does that help you

cleanvessel: LISTEN EVERYBODY! LISTEN!! LISTEN AGAIN!!!

I'm very sorry, I'm yet to see where Allah said in the quran that Jesus is coming to back to DIE again.

Quran 43:61
And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way

There is no way this can be interpreted to mean Jesus is coming back to DIE. I insist Allah did not intend that Jesus is coming to DIE. He didn't say anything about his coming to DIE. Muhammad and his followers must have heard or read the second coming of Jesus in the Bible and misinterpreted it in their hadiths due to lack of the Holy Spirit. You never can know God's word properly without his Spirit inside you and this is the cause of the problem at hand.

Jesus is coming not to DIE but to JUDGE (the sign of the hour of judgment). He will judge those who refuse Him as the Son of God. I'm sure we all know them. abi?

maclatunji:

I am giving you the opportunity to go and study the Qur'an well before addressing your false assertion.

maclatunji:

I am giving you the opportunity to go and study the Qur'an well before addressing your false assertion.

ayenny02:
43:61

And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way

ayenny02: 2) He will return back to earth and DIE, and will later on be RESURRECTED

vedaxcool: you guys should have ignored the every dishonest desika , a the foundation. of any discussion is. honesty, desika practice an extreme. form pop f evangelism. by lies.

Jesus couldn't have died on the cross if he dI'd we will have to settle. with the horrible fact that he died the .thinking God had forsaken him and so says the Bible, now imagine what ty iou t means to be forsaken by God? wwould this people everthink?

RoyPCain: @cleanvessel: 43 verse 61 does not say Jesus is the judge but 'a' sign not the 'only' sign of the hour. when you read it, and know that anti-christ is alive when Jesus arrives, you know that his arrival is a sign that the time is getting nearer.

God is The Judge and Owner and King of the Judgment, not Jesus. no sir.

Allah says Jesus was not crucified then and was not killed by any method then. this you have heard already from the muslims. Allah says every soul shall taste death. This means Jesus will taste death in his return.


That should now settle it for you. You can disagree with the muslim position. But you can not say is that we muslims dont have this position. We do. It is better truth to you, it is reality and sweetness of conviction to us.

RoyPCain: @cleanvessel: 43 verse 61 does not say Jesus is the judge but 'a' sign not the 'only' sign of the hour. when you read it, and know that anti-christ is alive when Jesus arrives, you know that his arrival is a sign that the time is getting nearer.

God is The Judge and Owner and King of the Judgment, not Jesus. no sir.

Allah says Jesus was not crucified then and was not killed by any method then. this you have heard already from the muslims. Allah says every soul shall taste death. This means Jesus will taste death in his return.


That should now settle it for you. You can disagree with the muslim position. But you can not say is that we muslims dont have this position. We do. It is better truth to you, it is reality and sweetness of conviction to us.

basilico: So when will prophet Elijah taste death


2 Kings 2:11
As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.

sino: @Desika, I see you couldn't reply me, well i understand, i'll try to help you out and hopefuly, you'll be cured of your confusion.

You know i asked you if perhaps you are applying the "holy spirit" when reading the Qur'an, you didn't respond. Do you want to force your belief on Muslims? Do you want to force your own intepretations and understanding on us? Because i see your atempt as being desperate, and you lack knowledge in regards to what you are talking about.

You quoted a verse (Q19vs33), you read "peace be upon me the day i was born, the day i die and the day i'll be raised up alive", and then you say eureka! I have gotten it, Jesus(as) was raised up alive, that means he must have died(using your christian ideology) and so, the Qur'an contradicts itself when it said Jesus(as) was not killed or crucified.

This is your opinion, heck everyone is entitled to one, even a mad man, but is your opinion the truth? A simple test is to know your understanding about usage of words in the Qur'an, do you know anything about contextual meaning as regards to the Qur'an? The answer is NO, why? Cos i asked you a simple question about the arabic word used in both Q19vs33 and Q4vs158 both are translated to raised up, but its different words and different context.

To make you understand the word and context of Q19vs33, there is also a verse with similar wordings in regards to prophet Yahyah(as) in the same surah, verse 15, it states, "peace be upon him the day he was born, the day he dies and the day he'll be raised up alive". It is either you bring a verse or hadith that state that prophet Yahyah(as) was also raised up like Jesus(as) after he died. If you can't find any, then you should know that just like anyone on earth would be born, will die and will be raised up alive on the day of judgement, so is the case of Jesus Christ(as). Every soul shall taste death and every soul shall be raised up alive(i.e resurrected back to life).

Now the word proper, the word used is ub'athu,yub'athu(in verse 33 and 15), this word as used in the Qur'an means the resurrection on the day of judgement, even, one of the name of the day of judgement is yawm alba'th. An example of such usage can be found in Q6vs 36 "Those who listen(in truth) be sure will accept: as to the dead Allah will raise them up: then will they be turned unto Him" the arabic word used here is yab'athuhum and it can easily be deduced that this raising them up is on judgement day. Ba'atha in the Qur'an is also used to indicate raising up a messanger as used in Q25vs51"If We Willed, We could raise up a warner in every village". There are numerous verses in the Qur'an where you'll find the word yub'athu and they are mostly referring to resurrection on the day of judgement.

Now, the word used in Q4vs158 which is rafa'ahu which translates to raised him up i.e uplift him, it cannot be used for raising from the dead, not to talk of resurrection on judgement day, they cannot be used interchangeably. See Q12vs76 to underatand the usage of rafa'a.
All these i have stated can be understood if you have basic understanding of the arabic language.

Reading the whole verse and the one preceding it(Q4vs157-, we'll understand that the context here is not resurection(or raising up) after death. Lets read and see; "That they say(in boast) we killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary the Apostle of Allah; but they killed him not nor crucified him but so it was made to appear to them and those who differ therein are full of doubts with no (certain) knowledge but only conjecture to follow for of a surety they killed him not."
"Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power Wise".(Q4vs157-

A right thinking person would see that no death occured in the verse above, so the raising up here is prior to death, so what are you guys yapping about? Haven't scientist been able to raise themselves beyond the atmosphere alive? If man can do that, why then do you want to limit what God can do?

Now ponder on the words of Jesus(as) from the bible and tell me if Jesus died. Let us read luke 24:36-43
"And as they were saying these things, he(jesus) himself stood in their midst, and says to them, peace be unto you(Assalam alaykum ), But they, being confounded and being frightened, supposed they beheld a spirit. And he(jesus) said to them, why are ye troubled? And why are thoughts rising in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Handle me and see, for a spirit has not flesh and bones as ye see me having. And having said this he shewed them his hands and his feet. But while they yet did not believe for joy, and were wondering, he said to them, Have ye anything here to eat? and they gave him part of a broiled fish and of a honeycomb; and he took it and ate before them.

I don't know how you guys read the above and still claim he died, Jesus came in flesh and bone, he even chop food, did he turn to spirit before being raised up or with the flesh and bone alive?

We Muslims believe that Jesus(as) did not die on the cross, he'll come back and will die like every other human being and then he would resurrected on judgement day fulfilling his statement in Qur'an 19vs33.

We Muslims believe that Jesus was born from a Noble Virgin; Mary the Virgin, preached the word of GOD to the people of Israel, raised to Allah Almighty alive (even though he might have been put on the cross, but never actually died), will come back to earth again to fight the army of Satan and then die a natural death and then be raised again back to life from death as we all do in the Day of Judgement.

cleanvessel: @ sino

you muslim believe jesus did not die........

i put it to you that your belief is wrong. there is what they call faith and truth. whatever belief that it is not from God is not the truth.

allah did not say jesus is coming back to DIE. he said he is coming to judge (quran 43:61).

i have challenged the muslims above to state where allah himself said jesus is coming to DIE but all of them are looking away from it. i'm using this means to challenge you too and rescue your brothers, who must have been in confusion now.

if you believe (wrongly) that jesus didn't die before, your assumption that he is coming back to DIE is wrong because that is not the word of allah. it is human's idea.

waiting for you.

by truthman2012: 11:20pm On Jun 25

RoyPCain: @cleanvessel: 43 verse 61 does not say Jesus is the judge but 'a' sign not the 'only' sign of the hour. when you read it, and know that anti-christ is alive when Jesus arrives, you know that his arrival is a sign that the time is getting nearer.

God is The Judge and Owner and King of the Judgment, not Jesus. no sir.

Allah says Jesus was not crucified then and was not killed by any method then. this you have heard already from the muslims. Allah says every soul shall taste death. This means Jesus will taste death in his return.


That should now settle it for you. You can disagree with the muslim position. But you can not say is that we muslims dont have this position. We do. It is better truth to you, it is reality and sweetness of conviction to us.


Since Allah knew that every soul (including Jesus) must taste death, why did he allow him to escape death? Why did he disappear? I put it to you Jesus was killed because every soul must taste death.

deSika:
but again many things come to mind. i find it significantly difficult to imagine that Jesus is the only person who leaves the earth only to come back to continue living. its fairy tale at worse. all humans are born once and die once. death is the means by which they leave the earth. even stories of people who somehow escaped death, they never came back to resume llife inorder to catch up with death. now my friend whereas the christian position is that Jesus was killed and then raised up bodily. the muslim interpretation of the quran is rather awkward as the quran never spells out that
1. Jesus did not die. [i have explained this using the "they killed him not verse" below
2. Jesus would come back to die again.

deSika:
1. can you produce a single verse of your quran that says Jesus will come back to die. if you cannot then i am afraid that you are wishing away the truth.

deSika:
2. i saw this verse and i was wondering
“I (Son of Mary) was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up [Arabic: tawaffaitani, meaning, ‘caused me to die’] Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.” (Qur’an, Surah Al-Maida 5: 117). [it points out that Jesus was caused to die while he dwelt among the jews]

deSika:
3. when the quran says it appeared so to them, what does it mean. most muslims have explained it to mean that Allah put his resemblance on another man. but if you examine that claim with common sense, you would discover that
1. someone was killed by crucifixion
2. the person crucified looked like Jesus to the people [it appeared so to them according to the quran]
but my common sense just tells me that the person that was killed is actually Jesus, because no body would resemble Jesus apart from Jesus himself. so muslims say the person that was killed look like Jesus, i say the person that looked like Jesus is Jesus.

deSika:
4. as an aside addition, pls i will like to know if you agree with this site http://www.answering-christianity.com/que7.htm this is thier claim

maclatunji:

It is quite simple, Jesus (AS) was not crucified, was raised to the heavens, will be brought back, will die and then on then prior to judgement will be raised like everybody else.

So, what are you yapping about?

RoyPCain: @truthman2012;

you may invite desika to share in your "Elijah has came in the person of John" says Jesus. You must agree that John is already dead. What you are saying is that Elijah tasted death, finally, if Jesus was correct and John was the one incorrect about himself.

At any rate, we know Elijah as John died. Transfer that process to Jesus coming back to taste death. did you get that desika that John as Elijah's return became adult before he died? Jesus will return as adult to die. This should settle your why would Jesus be the only one to return and live. He will live and then will die, peacefully and be raised up for Judgment, peacefully.


@cleanvessel; "Jesus will be a sign for the Judgment day" does not make him any Judge on Judgment Day. The Quran never made any man or angel or anything other than Allah The Judge of Judgment Day. If you see anything like that in the Quran, show it to all. stop confusing truthman2012.

Mee234:
IN other words Jesus is not dead yet. Abi no bi wetin u ey talk?

by truthman2012: 2:30pm

RoyPCain: @truthman2012;

you may invite desika to share in your "Elijah has came in the person of John" says Jesus. You must agree that John is already dead. What you are saying is that Elijah tasted death, finally, if Jesus was correct and John was the one incorrect about himself.

At any rate, we know Elijah as John died. Transfer that process to Jesus coming back to taste death. did you get that desika that John as Elijah's return became adult before he died? Jesus will return as adult to die. This should settle your why would Jesus be the only one to return and live. He will live and then will die, peacefully and be raised up for Judgment, peacefully.


@cleanvessel; "Jesus will be a sign for the Judgment day" does not make him any Judge on Judgment Day. The Quran never made any man or angel or anything other than Allah The Judge of Judgment Day. If you see anything like that in the Quran, show it to all. stop confusing truthman2012.


Since Allah did not say in the quran that Jesus is coming back to die, I wonder why your belief is so strong on it. Do you believe in the word of man (Muhammad) more than Allah's? If it is true, would Allah not say something about an event that is as important as that? Keep pondering over it.

Tell me, where did Muhammad get that idea from?

"Nor can a soul die except by God as leave, the term being fixed as by writing. Many do desire a reward in this life, we shall give it to him, and if any do desire a reward In the hereafter, we shall give it to him. And swiftly shall we reward those that (serve us with) gratitude. "(Surah Al-'Imran -The family of Imraan 3:145)

"It is God that takes the souls (of men) at death; and those that die not (He takes) during their sleep: those on whom He has passed the decree of death, He keeps back (from returning to t life) but the rest He sends (to their bodies) for a term appointed. Verily in this are Signs for those who reflect. (Surah Al-Zumar - The Crowds 39:42)

the immediate above may be just what happened to Jesus and they said he died. God knows all and He had protected His Messenger [Jesus son of Mary [as]] as He Promised and the Promise of God is Firm.



Chapter 3 Verse 185 of the Quran; Every soul shall taste of death, and you shall only be paid fully your reward on the resurrection day; then whoever is removed far ...

21 verse 35; Every soul will taste death. And We test you with evil and with good as trial; and to Us you will be returned

29 verse 57; Every soul shall have taste of Death ( 29:57)

39 verse 30: "Truly thou wilt die (one day), and truly they (too) will die (one day)."
Surah Al Zumar (39:30)


whatever dies is not God; Quran 55 verses 25&26: Whatsoever is on it (the earth) will perish. And the Face of your Lord full of majesty and honor will remain forever) ﴿55:26,27﴾

RoyPCain: @truthman2012;

i see why the likes of those who take their ques from answering islam are not getting the memo that is been around for over 1,400 years. sam shamoun, david woods and people like that including pastor joseph and dr white, they a posting what you are using as your resources with trinity in mind. therefore where they see it obliterated in the bible and in the Quran, they are blind to it. do jews even now that they have deviated far from what Moses brought believe God is a human being? no. so even in their disbelief they know God is not a man or son of man.

RoyPCain: @truthman2012: Allah is the One Who says in the Quran that Jesus will come back and die.

1]. Jesus was not killed or died when you say he was killed by dying on the cross.

2]. jesus will return as a sign of Hour.

3]. Every soul shall taste death.

all of the above leads clearly to Jesus [as] will die when he returns.

there is a grave already dug for his [as] body in madina.