clefstone: thanks, esp for the first sentence above. I hv been tempted to use that same line for that Igbo man but i've bin restraining myself. And i askd myself, y is he so sensitive, i realised d answer but yet again restrained myself until Wesley, a supposed Aboh man cowed. I was forced to speak out and blame the rush of blood to his head on the war, yes its the war my broda, its effect defines them today. Oturugo is IGBO

Abagworo:

http://www.waado.org/nigerdelta/essays/politics/
SagayOnDeltaCapital.html

August 1991 when Babangida used the Delta State
Capital to pay his bride price to his Anioma in-laws.
When I was invited to Asaba in May 1999 to give the
hand over lecture from Military dictatorship to Civilian
democratic government, and was asked by the out-going
Military Administrator, Commander Feghabo, what I
thought of the fact that only the southern Delta,
particularly the Urhobos have so far produced civilian
Governors for Delta State, my reply was simple. 'Delta
State' is constituted by two States, Delta proper and
Anioma. As long as the Delta Capital remains in
Anioma,the Governors will come from the real Delta.
Inspite of castigations in the press, by the Asagba of
Asaba, and some other Anioma elites, I have remained
firm in my views. The best solution is for the two entities
to separate into two states with the Delta State Capital
being at Warri. Anioma can then be a state with its
capital at Asaba. Alternatively, Anioma can join Anambra
State and become a member of the South Eastern group
of states to which it truly belongs.


This ends my contribution to this thread. There's nothing a dog can do for cats to believe he's not a dog including eating his fellow dog.

clefstone: And a question for my broda, Mr Wesley, assuming an Aboh man becomes president tomorrow, do u think tht the Igbos will see him as an true Igbo president? note tht GEJ's name is Ebele nd more recently Azikiwe, does tht make him an Igbo president? I am a realist to the core and wud neva be heard supporting a union based on psychophancy, one tht wud definitely end in betrayal.

oturugo:
Wes80 asked you to define Igboness for him and you ignorantly used the Biafran war to define Igboness. Na wa for you ooh.
Grow some brains biko.

clefstone: Its understandable that u wud be blind to all i said in tht same post b4 d war part. I know y, its the war again and u, Oturugbo are IGBO

clefstone: The definition of Igbo is a loose one and has been evolving since colonial times. Not minding our origin, Abohs could easily hv been part of the Igbo identity but for the events of the 60s. Nothing has united and defined the Igbos more than the civil war and once the Abohs were neutral/anti-seccession, it became difficult to identify wit the evolving Igbo identity. Today, you, Mr Wesley cannot reason lyk an Igbo man. That war made them into sometin we r not. By d way i wud lyk to know ur 'afa kene' so i can greet u as an Aboh man

wesley80: I think its pitiable that your definition of "Igbo" seems to be a group of people in a particular geographical location who advocated for a separate state called Biafra and were defeated in a civil war! Or Perhaps I didnt get you correctly? Do you really believe a people as diverse as the Igbos can be defined merely by their 'way of thought' or political disposition?
Can you prove that the Aboh people were anti-secession as you alluded to in your post? Are you sure Aboh's neutrality wasnt as a result of Her geographical location? Compare Her experience with that of Nndoni just across the Niger. What if Aboh had been located a bit more up-River say in the present location of Onitsha, do you think Aboh would have stayed neutral?
I wonder what you mean in saying the war turned them into something we arent, if you're referring to the enterprise of most Igbos I'll ascribe that to mans natural survival instinct and if you were referring to 'Political disposition', I believe thats subjective and depends on who you're talking to. I didi my undergraduate studies in the East and I had friends that didnt think Ojukwu a hero or embraced the 'Biafra Cause' just like myself and those are views I and them remain unapologetic about so by your definition they are what? Perhaps you need to be a lil bit more explicit.
Concerning Afa ekenem, I'll pretend I dont know why you asked for it and tell you my Grandma calls me 'Asu Ike bu Eze' but I grew up bearing 'Agha eli Osa'. i suppose yours is Omordi no?

clefstone: And a question for my broda, Mr Wesley, assuming an Aboh man becomes president tomorrow, do u think tht the Igbos will see him as an true Igbo president? note tht GEJ's name is Ebele nd more recently Azikiwe, does tht make him an Igbo president? I am a realist to the core and wud neva be heard supporting a union based on psychophancy, one tht wud definitely end in betrayal.

wesley80: I think its pitiable that your definition of "Igbo" seems to be a group of people in a particular geographical location who advocated for a separate state called Biafra and were defeated in a civil war! Or Perhaps I didnt get you correctly? Do you really believe a people as diverse as the Igbos can be defined merely by their 'way of thought' or political disposition?
Can you prove that the Aboh people were anti-secession as you alluded to in your post? Are you sure Aboh's neutrality wasnt as a result of Her geographical location? Compare Her experience with that of Nndoni just across the Niger. What if Aboh had been located a bit more up-River say in the present location of Onitsha, do you think Aboh would have stayed neutral?
I wonder what you mean in saying the war turned them into something we arent, if you're referring to the enterprise of most Igbos I'll ascribe that to mans natural survival instinct and if you were referring to 'Political disposition', I believe thats subjective and depends on who you're talking to. I didi my undergraduate studies in the East and I had friends that didnt think Ojukwu a hero or embraced the 'Biafra Cause' just like myself and those are views I and them remain unapologetic about so by your definition they are what? Perhaps you need to be a lil bit more explicit.
Concerning Afa ekenem, I'll pretend I dont know why you asked for it and tell you my Grandma calls me 'Asu Ike bu Eze' but I grew up bearing 'Agha eli Osa'. i suppose yours is Omordi no?

wesley80: B
Here lies the problem; POLITICS, dirty petty POLITICS. I'll tell you a story.
There was an Aboh teacher by name Wayas, (Not sure there's an Aboh man that went through Aboh Grammar School and doesnt know Wayas - I didnt but I've heard legendary tales) he went to the farm one day and stumbled on some eggs belonging to some kind of bird but wasnt sure which so he took the eggs home and laid them alongside those of his chicken that was hatching its eggs also. fortunately, 2 of the eggs hatched and they probably(Not sure any longer) belonged to a kite and they all watched them grow alongside the chicks and the mother did fend for them as she did her chicks and they matured and had feathers all over then one day while everyone watched, one of the birds just shook its wings and took to flight, it didnt stop till it was out of sight and while a section believed it would come back b4 nightfall some said it wont - it never did and I dont have to tell you where the other bird ended up the next day do i? yes, in some metal pot!
Moral of the story, I am what I am and wont be defined by what anyone thinks or how they feel, what I am is what I'll be regardless of what anyone thinks. The board here is the culture board and we'd be best served to treat it as such else we'll dabble into somewhere we shouldnt be with raw and unwantted sentiments like your subsequent posts reveal brought to the fore. lets stay cultural please.

oturugo:
Piggy, you are fighting so hard to disrupt the good relationship of Aboh people and their fellow Igbo brothers. Through a proud Aboh nairalander,some eastern Igbos have learnt Aboh dialect and some Abohs have leart other Igbo dialects. Being Igbo doesn't make one loose anything in modern day Nigeria. Rather it promotes unity and love.
But pigs like you are only interested in division and confusion. Get a life pig.

clefstone: Oturugo the Igbo man, the good relationship between Abohs nd Igbos should be based on the truth not on sentiments. Its actually in the best interest of u Igbos tht the truth be exposed. BTW, d last place i read someone addressin humans as pigs is the Quran and here we r 1400yrs later and u Oturugo, an Igbo man doing d same. Quit livin in d dark ages

wesley80: I think its pitiable that your definition of "Igbo" seems to be a group of people in a particular geographical location who advocated for a separate state called Biafra and were defeated in a civil war! Or Perhaps I didnt get you correctly? Do you really believe a people as diverse as the Igbos can be defined merely by their 'way of thought' or political disposition?
Can you prove that the Aboh people were anti-secession as you alluded to in your post? Are you sure Aboh's neutrality wasnt as a result of Her geographical location? Compare Her experience with that of Nndoni just across the Niger. What if Aboh had been located a bit more up-River say in the present location of Onitsha, do you think Aboh would have stayed neutral?
I wonder what you mean in saying the war turned them into something we arent, if you're referring to the enterprise of most Igbos I'll ascribe that to mans natural survival instinct and if you were referring to 'Political disposition', I believe thats subjective and depends on who you're talking to. I didi my undergraduate studies in the East and I had friends that didnt think Ojukwu a hero or embraced the 'Biafra Cause' just like myself and those are views I and them remain unapologetic about so by your definition they are what? Perhaps you need to be a lil bit more explicit.
Concerning Afa ekenem, I'll pretend I dont know why you asked for it and tell you my Grandma calls me 'Asu Ike bu Eze' but I grew up bearing 'Agha eli Osa'. i suppose yours is Omordi no?

oturugo:
Ok you hate pig, I will call you monkey instead untill you stop your imbecility.
You are yet to define Igbo yet you call me Igbo. I like that and a proud one, but you have failed to convince any one that Abohs are not Igbo like me regardless of the partition caused by the Niger river.
What other truth do you want readers here to accept?, that since the end of Biafran war, those who live in the east of the great river are only called Igbos. Monkey, seek a doctor for your cure. You are sick.

clefstone: cursor on 'ignore that Igbo man'. Action: double click left cursor key. DONE. Yipee!!! No more nna talk here

Pharoh:

It is best you ignore people who are abusive and uncultured in a public discussion like him, i only give one warning and that is it for me.

clefstone: Agha eli Osa 1. I respect ur maturity and knowledge. But lets look at it this way. Suppose Aboh was at the location of onitsha wud we hv been pro-biafra? Probably, but we r not at that location. Cud our location hv affected our integration with d Igbos? Yes. Location changes people's destiny. And if u read the history of Igbo, u'd realise tht the various clans tht make up the Igbo ethnic identity today were not united until during the English colonization. Matter of fact, thr was no Igbo before d 20th century. Unificatn of the Igbos was gradual nd as Nigeria became defined the people of the S/E, to strengthen their position saw d need to unite. If Aboh was truely united wit the Igbos before d civil war i bet u they wud hv laid their lives for the Biafra course, forget location. The reason y some 'igboid clans' pulled out of Biafra is not purely location but the Igbo ethnogenesis was stil in d process, Igbo was not fully defined. After the war it was easy to define the true Igbo by the scar of the war. Thr is no Igbo family today without dark war memories. It is imprinted in their DNA and is a strong definition of Today's Igbo. The war doesnt fully define the Igbos but it largely does. Sometimes i ponder, wud it hv been better if Abohs unified wit Igbos. Sometimes, maybe most times my answer is yes. Tht i know is ur position. But these tins r not just a 'o we want to be Igbos' thing. Many factors r involved nd most of those natural factors keep alienating u from them and uniting us wit our south south neighbours.

wesley80:

Azuka Nde Aboh, there's a whole lot I could say concerning this issue but I'm not sure I want to go down that line, like I said I've fought this fight over a dozen times even here in this forum and some threads are replete with my arguments - on your side that is. I've argued vehemently that Aboh is no Igbo clan and neither are we Igbos. So why the change of heart you might ask? Well, I grew up!
I like you, is a proud Aboh man, rich history, proud culture and deep roots traced back to the ancient kingdom and all that, i love those stories too and my head swells each time I read the accounts of the English explorers or accounts of our local Historians, yes I can relate to all that but when do we wake up and realize we have a world to live in? When do we realize we've got to build bridges and embrace brotherhood? Dont get me wrong my Brother, if I raise this topic with my family, without a doubt they'll take your side but I know its the average Aboh man being only what their genes have taught them to be.
The average Aboh man will tell you he's not even Ukwuani let alone distant Igbo. I cant guage your age but if you grew up in the 90's and before, you'll probably know Rogana Ottah the icon of Ukwuani music, he sang a smash hit in the 80's titled "Anyi Bu Ofu" it was a huge hit as it became the rallying song for all Ukwuanis but guess what? Rogana mentioned virtually every Ukwuani community including ise's but didnt mention Aboh! It looked like a travesty but it wasnt. It wasnt an oversight but just what we deserved! The truth is we've got to learn to stop being clannish and get the full picture. I've lived in Benin and I tell you NO ONE really gives a rats ass about some obscure town in the Delta claiming Bini roots - yes thats what it has come to. History to us is merely an Academic exercise and barely holds much for the coming generation and its up to us the present generation to define how we want it to look. Of course there are those that care but lets give history its place and embrace brotherhood as defined by cultural affinity etc there's a whole lot I've got to say but I'll pause now, I greet you.

clefstone: as much as i accept the bini origin of Aboh, i will neva call myself a bini man. Just thot to make tht clear

Pharoh: I think people are mistaking the need to have a separate identity to mean that hostility will be in place and the concept of brotherhood or cooperation will be lost. Even with the igbo identity and brotherhood in the southeast, you still see IMO versus Anambra fighting here on nairaland. Aba state deport and sacking non indigenes, enugu and anamabra fighting to be the pride of the east and so forth, so what then is the benefit of this so called brotherhood or igbo identity?. You cannot force a dysfunctional identity or brotherhood on people who think they can do better by deciding their own future based on freewill.



You will notice that most of them have stopped posting on this thread while they keep on repeatedly viewing the thread and hoping that you will suddenly accept the igbo identity after your ongoing discussion.

oturugo:
You must be joking by thinking anyone cares if he accepts Igbo identity. He is not Igbo accepted but my annoyance is about his labelling Aboh as non Igbo. It is a slap on Abohs who see themselves as Igbo. It doesnt matter to me if someone from Okigwe says he is not Igbo but he must not be insane to claim that Okigwe is not IGBO. So let him stop the insanity.

oturugo:
You must be joking by thinking anyone cares if he accepts Igbo identity. He is not Igbo accepted but my annoyance is about his labelling Aboh as non Igbo. It is a slap on Abohs who see themselves as Igbo. It doesnt matter to me if someone from Okigwe says he is not Igbo but he must not be insane to claim that Okigwe is not IGBO. So let him stop the insanity.

Pharoh: I think people are mistaking the need to have a separate identity to mean that hostility will be in place and the concept of brotherhood or cooperation will be lost. Even with the igbo identity and brotherhood in the southeast, you still see IMO versus Anambra fighting here on nairaland. Aba state deport and sacking non indigenes, enugu and anamabra fighting to be the pride of the east and so forth, so what then is the benefit of this so called brotherhood or igbo identity?. You cannot force a dysfunctional identity or brotherhood on people who think they can do better by deciding their own future based on freewill.



You will notice that most of them have stopped posting on this thread while they keep on repeatedly viewing the thread and hoping that you will suddenly accept the igbo identity after your ongoing discussion.

clefstone: Agha eli Osa 1. I respect ur maturity and knowledge. But lets look at it this way. Suppose Aboh was at the location of onitsha wud we hv been pro-biafra? Probably, but we r not at that location. Cud our location hv affected our integration with d Igbos? Yes. Location changes people's destiny. And if u read the history of Igbo, u'd realise tht the various clans tht make up the Igbo ethnic identity today were not united until during the English colonization. Matter of fact, thr was no Igbo before d 20th century. Unificatn of the Igbos was gradual nd as Nigeria became defined the people of the S/E, to strengthen their position saw d need to unite. If Aboh was truely united wit the Igbos before d civil war i bet u they wud hv laid their lives for the Biafra course, forget location. The reason y some 'igboid clans' pulled out of Biafra is not purely location but the Igbo ethnogenesis was stil in d process, Igbo was not fully defined. After the war it was easy to define the true Igbo by the scar of the war. Thr is no Igbo family today without dark war memories. It is imprinted in their DNA and is a strong definition of Today's Igbo. The war doesnt fully define the Igbos but it largely does. Sometimes i ponder, wud it hv been better if Abohs unified wit Igbos. Sometimes, maybe most times my answer is yes. Tht i know is ur position. But these tins r not just a 'o we want to be Igbos' thing. Many factors r involved nd most of those natural factors keep alienating u from them and uniting us wit our south south neighbours.

clefstone: they will hv to wait for a very long time. And someone here saying i should speak for myself and not for Abohs that see themselves as Igbos. Abohs tht see themselves as Igbos? Ethnicity is not lyk religion tht u just profess d creed nd get inducted, its who u r, how u r, wht u r, how u reason. People lyk Wesley(all due respect to him) r looking to consolidate by accepting bein Igbo in other to enjoy d avantage of number which on its own is a wise move. On d other hand, thr r those, yours sincerely included, who look at tins from a more realistic point of view. Any forced, un-natural, selfishly motivated union wud end up in a betrayal. Abohs r very proud to an extent very few can imagine here and will not dance to an Igbo drum. Abagworo, Tony, Pazienza and co, u must understnd i hv nothing against Igbo as a nation, but its very important you knw those tht align with u nd those tht do not. You hv not been to Aboh nd u most likely hv not met an Aboh man save for @Wesley u met on NL. Ask @wesley if a survey of wht percentage of Abohs see themselves as Igbos wht d likely result wud be nd u will be shocked. In the future, Igbos might hv to unite for an important cause and if tht future is lyk today, and the Abohs dissociate themselves from such cause like in '66, do not shout 'betrayal', do not say u were not told.

clefstone: Of course u know i meant to use d word 'ancestors'. Have u ever been to Aboh? Do u know whr Aboh is? Have u met an Aboh person before? Are u a historian? On wht basis do u now speak about the origin of Aboh? Congrats for being an 'old man'

wesley80:

Azuka Nde Aboh, there's a whole lot I could say concerning this issue but I'm not sure I want to go down that line, like I said I've fought this fight over a dozen times even here in this forum and some threads are replete with my arguments - on your side that is. I've argued vehemently that Aboh is no Igbo clan and neither are we Igbos. So why the change of heart you might ask? Well, I grew up!
I like you, is a proud Aboh man, rich history, proud culture and deep roots traced back to the ancient kingdom and all that, i love those stories too and my head swells each time I read the accounts of the English explorers or accounts of our local Historians, yes I can relate to all that but when do we wake up and realize we have a world to live in? When do we realize we've got to build bridges and embrace brotherhood? Dont get me wrong my Brother, if I raise this topic with my family, without a doubt they'll take your side but I know its the average Aboh man being only what their genes have taught them to be.
The average Aboh man will tell you he's not even Ukwuani let alone distant Igbo. I cant guage your age but if you grew up in the 90's and before, you'll probably know Rogana Ottah the icon of Ukwuani music, he sang a smash hit in the 80's titled "Anyi Bu Ofu" it was a huge hit as it became the rallying song for all Ukwuanis but guess what? Rogana mentioned virtually every Ukwuani community including ise's but didnt mention Aboh! It looked like a travesty but it wasnt. It wasnt an oversight but just what we deserved! The truth is we've got to learn to stop being clannish and get the full picture. I've lived in Benin and I tell you NO ONE really gives a rats ass about some obscure town in the Delta claiming Bini roots - yes thats what it has come to. History to us is merely an Academic exercise and barely holds much for the coming generation and its up to us the present generation to define how we want it to look. Of course there are those that care but lets give history its place and embrace brotherhood as defined by cultural affinity etc there's a whole lot I've got to say but I'll pause now, I greet you.

clefstone: People lyk Wesley(all due respect to him) r looking to consolidate by accepting bein Igbo in other to enjoy d avantage of number which on its own is a wise move.