lacum:
dont mind him, let him go and take statistics of married men vs priest who have sex outside marriage or break vow and he will find out that most married men do it dan most priests

True married men do so..., now ans dis " Did married men pledge celibacy?"

The issue is that Rev Fathers should not and never do it because " by being a priest they've pledged celibacy for the rest of their lives". Got it?? ?

Mescopaul: For Christ's sake celibacy is a personal decision, Why would someone take a decision that he/she wont be able to maintain in the long run? While celibacy on one hand is supposed to eradicate illicit sex, its better on the other hand to marry and keep away from adultery. If Roman Catholic priests were not celibate , i dnt think this thread would ever have been in existence.

I believe that 6 out of every 10 is guilty, am saying from real experience, my dad was a mass server and he could sit you down for hours telling of the insincerity of these priests.


Thank God he was delivered from the hands of the Roman Catholics and had not bcom a Rev Father, if not were "my humble self 4 dey nw"

Now you are beginning to get my drift even though you don't want to admit that and now it seems we are almost saying thesame thing. Celibacy like you rightly said, is a personal thing and by choosing the priesthood these Rev Fathers personally chose to remain celibate. Now if at the long run they fail to keep or uphold the vows they made, then the blame should go to them not the institution.

Now let me get a bit personal here, when I was much younger, I seriously considered being a religious but two things debarred me. I realised I have this fondness for the medical profession and also this desire to always have children with me. And as at that time I never came across a religious who is also in the medical field so I took it that it was impossible to be a religious and a medical practitioner at thesame time. Again I know being a religious also debar you from having children ( not necessarily giving birth to them yourself but even adopting them).
I decided to forfeit one in other to achieve the other two instead of the other way round. Now I discovered my thoughts then were partially wrong, because I have friends and relatives who are religious and also medical practitioners. But the deed has been done.
Now looking at the above in the light of the topic at hand , it would be silly if I had taken the religious vow and then set out and start giving birth to children or adopting them against the rule of the church. If I do so , I should be blamed; not the church.

Your statistics of six out of every ten priest breaking their vow of celibacy is your thought not a proven fact and also a case of hearsay so am not dwelling on that.
Finally if to say your papa become 'Fada' dey for no born you. Lol. But never mind, he wasn't called to the priesthood. God knew you were supposed to come into the world through your father, so your birth wasn't by accident.

Mescopaul:
Come clear bro, U mean there's nothing wrong for a priest who is supposed to be celibate , having secret affairs all around the place ?

Nope. When nature calls, you answer. That's just the way it is and will always be.

The fault lies with the Roman Catholic church for expecting of their Padres to do the impossible.

Celibacy is a lie. Ever heard of a 50 year old virgin?

From the current situation of things, the hypocrites running the affairs of the church have started coming to terms with the futility of the decree, and soon enough all the Roman Catholic Padres will be okayed by the church to get a wife or girlfriends.

Now, that's reality.

Mescopaul: True married men do so..., now ans dis " Did married men pledge celibacy?"

The issue is that Rev Fathers should not and never do it because " by being a priest they've pledged celibacy for the rest of their lives". Got it?? ?

No married men didn't take the vow of celibacy but they took that of fidelity. If they become unfaithful to their wives then they've broken the vow of fidelity by committing adultery.

The similarity between them and the priest who broke his vow of celibacy?.......
They made vows and turn around to break them. Hope you get that now.

Sal C:
Now you are beginning to get my drift even though you don't want to admit that and now it seems we are almost saying thesame thing. Celibacy like you rightly said, is a personal thing and by choosing the priesthood these Rev Fathers personally chose to remain celibate. Now if at the long run they fail to keep or uphold the vows they made, then the blame should go to them not the institution.

Now let me get a bit personal here, when I was much younger, I seriously considered being a religious but two things debarred me. I realised I have this fondness for the medical profession and also this desire to always have children with me. And as at that time I never came across a religious who is also in the medical field so I took it that it was impossible to be a religious and a medical practitioner at thesame time. Again I know being a religious also debar you from having children ( not necessarily giving birth to them yourself but even adopting them).
I decided to forfeit one in other to achieve the other two instead of the other way round. Now I discovered my thoughts then were partially wrong, because I have friends and relatives who are religious and also medical practitioners. But the deed has been done.
Now looking at the above in the light of the topic at hand , it would be silly if I had taken the religious vow and then set out and start giving birth to children or adopting them against the rule of the church. If I do so , I should be blamed; not the church.

Your statistics of six out of every ten priest breaking their vow of celibacy is your thought not a proven fact and also a case of hearsay so am not dwelling on that.
Finally if to say your papa become 'Fada' dey for no born you. Lol. But never mind, he wasn't called to the priesthood. God knew you were supposed to come into the world through your father, so your birth wasn't by accident.

Though it may seem am drifting but i still think the denomination should see reason.
In your light that "the blame should go to the persons involved and not the institution", there's still a dark spot there, if the institution close their eyes claiming that they are not to blame, that means we would have a bunch of corrupt, immoral, and defiled Priests that come to deliver lukewarm and stale sermons. To this effect what do you think?

Ray McBlue:

Nope. When nature calls, you answer. That's just the way it is and will always be.

The fault lies with the Roman Catholic church for expecting of their Padres to do the impossible.

Celibacy is a lie. Ever heard of a 50 year old virgin?

From the current situation of things, the hypocrites running the affairs of the church have started coming to terms with the futility of the decree, and soon enough all the Roman Catholic Padres will be okayed by the church to get a wife or girlfriends.

Now, that's reality.

hahaha you make words seem as if they ve happened already! Take your time bro! Its your voice!

I doubt if the Catholic will ever come to a decision like that, if not for their old long standard then it'll be for their pride.

Sal C: No married men didn't take the vow of celibacy but they took that of fidelity. If they become unfaithful to their wives then they've broken the vow of fidelity by committing adultery.

The similarity between them and the priest who broke his vow of celibacy?.......
They made vows and turn around to break them. Hope you get that now.

No bring that leg at all.

Now we have this issue tackled from 3 different angles:

Noble Sal C says "The priests that break their vow of celibacy should be blamed and not the denomination concerned"

Unplacate Ray MacBlue sticks to his realistic ideology of nature , drawing an end that "Celibacy is impossible for humans to practice, " undermining what the scriptures said.

And then my humbly self sticking right out to contradict Sal C that the institution should not just fold their arms and refusing to see the cankerworm that's gradually eating the supposed sacred spotless priests. As for Ray he has a total different view of the whole issue, he is yet to believe in celibacy which is the basis of this thread.

Mescopaul:

hahaha you make words seem as if they ve happened already! Take your time bro! Its your voice!

I doubt if the Catholic will ever come to a decision like that, if not for their old long standard then it'll be for their pride.

It's already happening. They must have already come to terms with their empty pride and unless traditions to even consider the possibility.

Therefore, it's only but a matter of time before all the cardinals and other lesser priests inevitably legalize their previously illicit relationships with marriages (Oh, what a relief that would be for the whole bunch!) enthusiastically endorse by the Pope.

Or have you forgotten that a very progressive Pope (with a possible secret gay son) is at the helm of affairs presently?

Mescopaul:

Noble Sal C says "The priests that break their vow of celibacy should be blamed and not the denomination concerned"

Now, that's foolish. When a child insults a grown-up, do you blame the child? Nope, you attack it from the root source, which is usually bad upbringing, which in turn boils down to the parents.

The same is applicable to the Roman Catholic Church. When a priest deviate from his oath of celibacy and engage in an illicit relationship with some chica, you don't blame the priest, you blame the church for not being stricter or less strict in it's policy, as the case may be. The church's policy is the root source not the priest.

Mescopaul: And then my humbly self sticking right out to contradict Sal C that the institution should not just fold their arms and refusing to see the cankerworm that's gradually eating the supposed sacred spotless priests.

I agree.

Mescopaul: As for Ray he has a total different view of the whole issue, he is yet to believe in celibacy which is the basis of this thread.

No one can possibly go multiple decades without milking the snake at some point. It's anthropologically impossible.

Mescopaul: Though it may seem am drifting but i still think the denomination should see reason.
In your light that "the blame should go to the persons involved and not the institution", there's still a dark spot there, if the institution close their eyes claiming that they are not to blame, that means we would have a bunch of corrupt, immoral, and defiled Priests that come to deliver lukewarm and stale sermons. To this effect what do you think?

Brother I strongly believe u've already fully come to term with the reality here but you feel like draging the issue further. The massage is clear, if you can't remain celibate ; don't join the priesthood. You only think about those who go contrary to the rule, but I tell you, some priest also joined the priesthood because of this same rule of celibacy. In your consideration, you completely forgot such people.

Like I said before, it doesn't make "MUCH" difference to me if they are allowed to get married. But trust me even if such happens, there will always be the "black sheep" yes there will always be just like there are among married pastors (I know you will frown at this but that's the truth). And then we still end up having some defiled priests coming to deliver lukewarm gospel just like we presently have defiled married pastors delivering stale sermon.

Now you can see, doing away with celibacy cannot do away with illicit sex among men of God.
Off to church, to continue when am back. Good morning.

Mescopaul: No bring that leg at all.

Should I take this to mean u've accepted the fact that am right or should I wait for you to prove me wrong?.

@ Mescopaul.
If you are talking about the institution not folding their hands, then you are right but the issue here is you are suggesting that the best option is to do away with celibacy and that's the reason for this thread.

Now if you talk about the institution not folding their hands, they can choose to go about it in any way they deem fit.

I hope you won't mind me bring in another instance........
If a school offering "Use of English" as a compulsory GS course discovers that most students have been failing the course, should the best option be to scrap off that course in other to ensure they don't witness failure again?.

Ray McBlue:

Now, that's foolish. When a child insults a grown-up, do you blame the child? Nope, you attack it from the root source, which is usually bad upbringing, which in turn boils down to the parents.

The same is applicable to the Roman Catholic Church. When a priest deviate from his oath of celibacy and engage in an illicit relationship with some chica, you don't blame the priest, you blame the church for not being stricter or less strict in it's policy, as the case may be. The church's policy is the root source not the priest.

Our pal seems to and thinks totally different
from this real fact, what might be the cause for this strong opposition so we both know how to get him to cave-in.

No one can possibly go multiple decades without milking the snake at some point. It's anthropologically impossible.

Its possible dear, Paul was celibate, though some claim he was a widower.

Sal C: @ Mescopaul.
If you are talking about the institution not folding their hands, then you are right but the issue here is you are suggesting that the best option is to do away with celibacy and that's the reason for this thread.

Now if you talk about the institution not folding their hands, they can choose to go about it in any way they deem fit.

I hope you won't mind me bring in another instance........
If a school offering "Use of English" as a compulsory GS course discovers that most students have been failing the course, should the best option be to scrap off that course in other to ensure they don't witness failure again?.

Your comparison of the issue at hand with "If a school offering "Use of English" as a compulsory GS course discovers that most students have been failing the course, should the best option be to scrap off that course in other to ensure they don't witness failure again?. is too mild.,

Sal C: Should I take this to mean u've accepted the fact that am right or should I wait for you to prove me wrong?.

I wont accept that insinuation to this issue,
Even at that married men pledge fidelity : having affairs outside their marriage stems from their own loss, its a personal issue, but the case of the Roman Catholic Priests is a universal issue that brings shame and disgrace to the church, its members and their god.

Sal C:
Like I said before, it doesn't make "MUCH" difference to me if they are allowed to get married. But trust me even if such happens, there will always be the "black sheep" yes there will always be just like there are among married pastors (I know you will frown at this but that's the truth). And then we still end up having some defiled priests coming to deliver lukewarm gospel just like we presently have defiled married pastors delivering stale sermon.

Now you can see, doing away with celibacy cannot do away with illicit sex among men of God.
Off to church, to continue when am back. Good morning.

You have started the issue all over again, Now listen the Catholic priests' celibacy should be something like "A child was born and it was a boy", to that, there's nothing the child can do to become a girl unless doing the impossible, celibacy in the priests' case should be the same, there should never had been a case of celibate priests turning around to what they already put aside, just as that child can never become a girl, the priests should never indulge in any affair, but with the married whether pastors or not, its not so.

Mescopaul:

Our pal seems to and thinks totally different from this real fact, what might be the cause for this strong opposition so we both know how to get him to cave-in.

Can't help you there, mate. You can take the horse to a lake but you can't force it to drink water.

Mescopaul: Its possible dear, Paul was celibate, though some claim he was a widower.

Before pledging celibacy, he was living what many Christians might call an immoral life. He had already sampled the forbidden fruit, hence he wasn't a virgin any more, thus disqualified.

My argument still stands: It's impossible to be celibate from womb till old age.

...unless one undergoes a certain process known as castration. That's the only realistic way one can truly be celibate for life.

Mescopaul:

Your comparison of the issue at hand with "If a school offering "Use of English" as a compulsory GS course discovers that most students have been failing the course, should the best option be to scrap off that course in other to ensure they don't witness failure again?. is too mild.,

Yes I intentionally gave you the mild but similar comparison and I know you understood that.

Mescopaul:

I wont accept that insinuation to this issue,
Even at that married men pledge fidelity : having affairs outside their marriage stems from their own loss, its a personal issue, but the case of the Roman Catholic Priests is a universal issue that brings shame and disgrace to the church, its members and their god.

The bottom line here is" both made vows but did not uphold them" no argument is needed to ascertain that glaring truth.

Mescopaul: You have started the issue all over again, Now listen the Catholic priests' celibacy should be something like "A child was born and it was a boy", to that, there's nothing the child can do to become a girl unless doing the impossible, celibacy in the priests' case should be the same, there should never had been a case of celibate priests turning around to what they already put aside, just as that child can never become a girl, the priests should never indulge in any affair, but with the married whether pastors or not, its not so.

What if this child goes out of his way to get himself trangendered, who is to blame; him or the parents?

Can you tell me of any rule that has not been broken? Why would that of celibacy be different. These priests were not physically castrated in the cause of their priesthood, For every rule that is made, it is supposed not to be broken but one thing is obvious, along the line you will see people brake the rule. Here the outcome becomes different from the expectation. That exactly what you see in the priesthood today.

Mescopaul:

Your comparison of the issue at hand with "If a school offering "Use of English" as a compulsory GS course discovers that most students have been failing the course, should the best option be to scrap off that course in other to ensure they don't witness failure again?. is too mild.,

Just thought that I should chip in here...

The comparison in blue highlight is very weak and can easily be refuted.

For example, when I was growing up in the the seaside city of Umhlanga in Durban, Africaan language used to be a compulsory course that one must pass, as well as Zulu and Xhosa. But the natives, whom are Zulu-Xhosa majority (yours truly, included) find Africaan too much of a bother, that a mass failure of the course every semester end is inevitable. At the end, the city council had to scrap it off from the time-table.

So it can be done.

Mescopaul: True married men do so..., now ans dis " Did married men pledge celibacy?"

The issue is that Rev Fathers should not and never do it because " by being a priest they've pledged celibacy for the rest of their lives". Got it?? ?

its a pity, so u believe dat a celibate should not fall to sexual sin but a married man should.smh

Ray McBlue:

Just thought that I should chip in here...

The comparison in blue highlight is very weak and can easily be refuted.

For example, when I was growing up in the the seaside city of Umhlanga in Durban, Africaan language used to be a compulsory course that one must pass, as well as Zulu and Xhosa. But the natives, whom are Zulu-Xhosa majority (yours truly, included) find Africaan too much of a bother, that a mass failure of the course every semester end is inevitable. At the end, the city council had to scrap it off from the time-table.

So it can be done.

Just like i said

Ray McBlue:

Just thought that I should chip in here...

The comparison in blue highlight is very weak and can easily be refuted.

For example, when I was growing up in the the seaside city of Umhlanga in Durban, Africaan language used to be a compulsory course that one must pass, as well as Zulu and Xhosa. But the natives, whom are Zulu-Xhosa majority (yours truly, included) find Africaan too much of a bother, that a mass failure of the course every semester end is inevitable. At the end, the city council had to scrap it off from the time-table.

So it can be done.

just like i said

Ray McBlue:

Can't help you there, mate. You can take the horse to a lake but you can't force it to drink water.

But a good beating might do the trick.

Before pledging celibacy, he was living what many Christians might call an immoral life. He had already sampled the forbidden fruit, hence he wasn't a virgin any more, thus disqualified.

My argument still stands: It's impossible to be celibate from womb till old age.

...unless one undergoes a certain process known as castration. That's the only realistic way one can truly be celibate for life.

Whichever way, the Priests who pledge celibacy are supposed to adhere to it to the later. This cant be an excuse for indulging immoral affair.

lacum:
its a pity, so u believe dat a celibate should not fall to sexual sin but a married man should.smh

Not realy dat. Follow d posts well.

Mescopaul: But a good beating might do the trick.

Nope. Wouldn't work. Wouldn't understand what the hassle was all about.
It's like flogging a dog for defacating where it shouldn't, but the dog not understanding why you gave it a beating, went on to defacate on the same spot the next day.

Mescopaul: Whichever way, the Priests who pledge celibacy are supposed to adhere to it to the later. This cant be an excuse for indulging immoral affair.

The term immoral is subjective, but let's leave that for now.

My point is that pledging celibacy with your sexual organ intact is a lie. In Anthropology terms, there is a need for man to blow-the-stem-off (metaphorically speaking) at some point. Any man that failed to do this is like a ticking time bomb, and it's only but a matter of time before he exploded in some kind of séxual release like, child moléstation, Ràpe, and màsturbation, etc. Why do you think there are a lot of child molestation cases in the Catholic church?

Like I said before, a true celibate must undergo some form of castration in other for it to be really effective.

Back in the day, true celibates are all Eunuchs.

Mescopaul: just like i said

That means you didn't understand the question. I asked "would the best option be to scrap off the course?" this is to say there could be many possible alternatives but we are looking for the best option.
It wasn't a case of impossibility but that of choosing the best option.
It pays to understand a question before attempting to answer it.

Mescopaul: Not realy dat. Follow d posts well.

Lacum is right. Maybe you should go through the thread again. You've also be inconsistent in your line of discussion so far.

Talking about beating, you should judge for yourself who was actually beaten so far.

Mescopaul: Not realy dat. Follow d posts well.

You too; do same.

@op please read first corinthians chapter seven from verse one to sixteen....i hope u understand it