plaetton:

Absolutely wrong .
you guys are way off the mark.


Jesus himself said ,
"Do not for once think that I have come to abolish the law"

Which part of that do you not understand?

Fulfilled does not mean abolish or annul.

Fulfill, in this context means to fill up, to expand, to reiterates, to embolden.

And this is exactly what Jesus does.
He expands the very laws you guys are erroneously thinking that he annuled.

For example, instead of just saying do not commit adultery (from the 10 commandments), Jesus ful-fills, or expands the law by stating that even looking or lusting after a woman is to be considered adultery.
And many more...

Do you understand?
Your misunderstanding comes from a mistransliteration of greek word in the original scriptures.
Ful-fill in this context means fill up, suppliment, expand, reiterate, etc.

It does not mean wiped off, abolished or annuled.

Jesus came to expand the law, not to abolish them.
This is what he said with his own mouth.

Paul reiterated this in Romans 3 verse 31:

" Do we then make Void the law through faith?
God forbid: Yea, we establish the law".

You just lack the understanding, i am tired of typing for today, here is a brief:

""Wherefore the law was our school master to bring us unto christ; that we might be justified by faith, 25 but after the faith is come, we are no longer under a school master"(Galatians 3:24-25)

For your mis-understanding:

"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid, yea, we establish the law"

What paul is simply saying is that the law is not void because we still establish it by loving our neigbours as ourselves and loving God, that's what the law is about, but we do not obey them in oldness of letter but in newness of Spirit, by the Holyspirit, we exhibit love towards God and man and thus have fulfilled or established the law this way.

"For this thou shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not bear false witness, thou shalt not covet and 'if there be any other commandment', it is briefly comprehended in the saying, thou shalt love thy neigbour as thyself". 10. love worketh no ill, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law (Romans 13:9-10)

Jesus did not destroy the law, he fulfilled it, he completed it, he perfected it and that's why when you accept christ you are able to go beyond obeying that law by now opereating in love, love covers all and even goes beyond, the Holy spirit now leads you and not the letters anymore.

"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death" (Romans 8:2)

haibe:

You just lack the understanding, i am tired of typing for today, here is a brief:

""Wherefore the law was our school master to bring us unto christ; that we might be justified by faith, 25 but after the faith is come, we are no longer under a school master"(Galatians 3:24-25)

For your mis-understanding:

"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid, yea, we establish the law"

What paul is simply saying is that the law is not void because we still establish it by loving our neigbours as ourselves and loving God, that's what the law is about, but we do not obey them in oldness of letter but in newness of Spirit, by the Holyspirit, we exhibit love towards God and man and thus have fulfilled or established the law this way.

"For this thou shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not bear false witness, thou shalt not covet and 'if there be any other commandment', it is briefly comprehended in the saying, thou shalt love thy neigbour as thyself". 10. love worketh no ill, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law (Romans 13:9-10)

Jesus did not destroy the law, he fulfilled it, he completed it, he perfected it and that's why when you accept christ you are able to go beyond obeying that law by now opereating in love, love covers all and even goes beyond, the Holy spirit now leads you and not the letters anymore.

"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death" (Romans 8:2)

Bull***t

It amazes me just how you guys makes leaps of absurd logic when you twist and twist your own sacred scriptures.
I am learned enough to understand what I read.
I don't need your interpretations or twists of what I should understand.

Your book says A, and you are telling me that I should understand it as B.
WTF?

Who is talking about the your frigging law of sin and death?
We are talking about the 10 commandments here.

Jesus said, and I repeat again,. Do not think that I am come to destroy the law, for I have to to ful-fill it(to validate it).
And Fulfilling it is what he tried when he actually expands the commandment against adultery to now include looking , lusting and impure thoughts.

Are you guys not smart enough to even understand and trust the words of Jesus?

Paul supports it by reiterating " God forbid" that the law be void.

Which part of that do you not understand?

I am even glad that you agree that Jesus perfected it.
If he perfected the law by expanding it, then how does that amount to annulling it like Goshen is shouting?
If you perfect or expand something, doesn't mean that it is still valid?

Damn!

This idea that Jesus fulfilled the laws through his death on the cross is absolute hogwash.

That is a very great and absurd leap of logic.

Jesus said that he has not come to abolish the law, but to ful-fill it(validate it).

the Goshen is telling us that through his death, the laws are now null and void.

My question is: If Jesus did not tell you so, how did you manage to make such a great lead of logic?

You guys are simply wishful thinkers.
You create your own tiny sub-set of beliefs and then you twist and contradict your own bible to suite.

What else is new.?
I seem to have forgotten that I was dealing with religious people.

I shouldn't waste my time explaining the same thing over and over again because you will never comprehend, imagine you who do not believe the bible amplifying it, lol, ok when Jesus said he came to fulfil the law, it means he came to complete and perfect it that no one would have any obligation to live by them again, he did this on the cross of carlvary, so if he has completed it why do you still want to continue what has been completed already?

Okay since you don't understand spiritual things, let me come down in the way someone like you would understand.

If you 'fulfil' an obligation(a debt, liability), are you still liable to that debt?? If yes why, if No why not, think before you answer Oº°˚˚°ºh,

haibe: I shouldn't waste my time explaining the same thing over and over again because you will never comprehend, imagine you who do not believe the bible amplifying it, lol, ok when Jesus said he came to fulfil the law, it means he came to complete and perfect it that no one would have any obligation to live by them again, he did this on the cross of carlvary, so if he has completed it why do you still want to continue what has been completed already?

Okay since you don't understand spiritual things, let me come down in the way someone like you would understand.

I[b]f you 'fulfil' an obligation(a debt, liability), are you still liable to that debt?? If yes why, if No why not, think before you answer Oº°˚˚°ºh,

[/b]

The bolded is even more ridiculous.

When Yahweh wrote with his own hands and gave moses the 10 commandments to pass over to the ancient hebrews, I don't ever recall reading that he described it as a debt to be repaid at some later date.
What nonsense?
He gave them laws to live by for the orderly functioning of their community and society.

Hammorabi also gave a set of laws for the Assyrians,
As did Assurbanipal, as did Sargon the Great of Akkhad.

So what so special or so bad about the 10 commandments that it needed sacrificial blood of Jesus to annul?

Is the constitution, or our criminal code a debt that has to be redeemed at some later late?
What an absurdity!

Let me repeat it to you one more time in simple english.
The 10 commandments were simple enactments of law and order.
It was not a debt that man owed god.
To suggest or imply so is grossly absurd.

Jesus said , and I repeat again:
" Think not That I am come to destroy the law or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill?

If you do not understand that statement, then I think you failed English.

Jesus goes on to say:
" For verily I say onto you Till heaven and earth has passed, till one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled".


This is amazing. again in black and white Jesus says emphatically that until the both heaven and earth pass away ( end of the world), not one letter of the law shall be voided or diminished until all are fulfilled.

Now let me ask you two simple questions:

1. Has heaven and earth passed away yet?
2. Has all the laws and the prophecies been fulfilled?

These are the two conditions that Jesus mentioned.

If No to any of the above questions , then you are all teaching dangerous falsehoods that will likely land you on the other side of the kingdom of god.
I think we call it hell.

Jesus goes on to admonish anyone who dares to teach such falsehood regarding the abolition of the laws.

To prove that Jesus actually came to ful-fill/validate/expand/strengthen the laws, he goes on further in Mat:5:21

" Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, thou shalt not kill; and whosoever kill shall be in danger of judgement.
22: But I say unto you that whosoever shall be angry with his brother without cause shall be in danger of judgement, whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council, but whosoever shall say to his brother , thou fool, shall be in danger of judgement".

Furthermore,

Verses 27-28:
Ye have heard it that it was said by them of time: Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28: But I say unto you, that whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart"

So, my friends, you can see from the foregoing that Jesus actually expanded /ful-filled/validated the commandments just like he had said .
There should be no arguments about this.

To actually twist this chapter and verses and imply that Jesus annulled the laws is pure blasphemy because by doing so, you are actually categorically repudiating the very words of Jesus.

Now, to take a giant leap over to say that Jthe death of Jesus miraculously(voodoo logic) annulled the same lows that he came to uphold is extremely absurd.

I don't know what else to say to you guys.

Am not on a computer, so i will try to answer your question bit by bit, but please be willing to understand, do not be skeptical.

plaetton: [/b]

The bolded is even more ridiculous.

When Yahweh wrote with his own hands and gave moses the 10 commandments to pass over to the ancient hebrews, I don't ever recall reading that he described it as a debt to be repaid at some later date.
What nonsense?
He gave them laws to live by for the orderly functioning of their community and society.

Hammorabi also gave a set of laws for the Assyrians,
As did Assurbanipal, as did Sargon the Great of Akkhad.

So what so special or so bad about the 10 commandments that it needed sacrificial blood of Jesus to annul?

Is the constitution, or our criminal code a debt that has to be redeemed at some later late?
What an absurdity!

Let me repeat it to you one more time in simple english.
The 10 commandments were simple enactments of law and order.
It was not a debt that man owed god.
To suggest or imply so is grossly absurd.
.

A debt simply means an obligation owed by one party to another party, it does not necessarily mean a 'loan repayment', so when the word debt is used, it doesn't necessarily mean am talking about that guy that owes you money on the street, a debt is an obligation(whether in the form of money, duty, obedience, responsibility, etc) owed to another party.

So the law was an obligation to the people which they are to carry out or obey in order in order to be in good terms with God and to avoid being punished.

So bro, the law was actually a debt owed by the people to God, that's what i mean and this debt(obligation) has been fulfilled(completed) by Jesus on the cross.

A simple english dictionary will solve the problem you have here.

plaetton:
Jesus said , and I repeat again:
" Think not That I am come to destroy the law or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill?

If you do not understand that statement, then I think you failed English.

Jesus goes on to say:
" For verily I say onto you Till heaven and earth has passed, till one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled".


This is amazing. again in black and white Jesus says emphatically that until the both heaven and earth pass away ( end of the world), not one letter of the law shall be voided or diminished until all are fulfilled.

Now let me ask you two simple questions:

1. Has heaven and earth passed away yet?
2. Has all the laws and the prophecies been fulfilled?

These are the two conditions that Jesus mentioned.

If No to any of the above questions , then you are all teaching dangerous falsehoods that will likely land you on the other side of the kingdom of god.
I think we call it hell.

Jesus goes on to admonish anyone who dares to teach such falsehood regarding the abolition of the laws.

For your first question: Has heaven and earth passed away? Well the answer is No, heaven and earth has not passed away but bro you fail to realise that is just one of the condition for the law to pass away, there are two conditions in that verse, they are:

1)Till heaven and earth pass away
2)Till all the law is fulfilled

Now in mattew 5:17, Jesus said he came to 'fulfil the law'.
Again in mattew 5:18, He says one jot or one tittle will not pass away "till all is fulfilled", in simple english, the law won't pass away "until it is fulfilled"

Now the questions runs back to you: Was Jesus successful in fulfilling the law which was his purpose of coming(mattew 5:17) ??

If yes, then you are just stressing yourself arguing because you keep shooting yoursef on the leg.

plaetton:
Jesus goes on to admonish anyone who dares to teach such falsehood regarding the abolition of the laws.

To prove that Jesus actually came to ful-fill/validate/expand/strengthen the laws, he goes on further in Mat:5:21

" Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, thou shalt not kill; and whosoever kill shall be in danger of judgement.
22: But I say unto you that whosoever shall be angry with his brother without cause shall be in danger of judgement, whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council, but whosoever shall say to his brother , thou fool, shall be in danger of judgement".

Furthermore,

Verses 27-28:
Ye have heard it that it was said by them of time: Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28: But I say unto you, that whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart"

So, my friends, you can see from the foregoing that Jesus actually expanded /ful-filled/validated the commandments just like he had said .
There should be no arguments about this.

Lol, i should not continue this argument again because i have won already since you agree that Jesus has fulfilled the law by expanding it(even though that's not what it means) but since you believe Jesus has fulfilled the law, then you have proved to yourself that the law can now pass away.

"For verily i say unto you, "till heaven and earth pass away", one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, "till all be fulfilled"(mattew 5:18)

So the second condition of the law passing away has been met bro,"till all be fulfilled" and you agree Jesus fulfilled the law so what more can i say? You are with me now


By the way, if the law has not been fulfilled, it will mean we would still be shedding the blood of the lamb as a means for our sacrifice because the bible says 'no jot will pass until it is fulfilled' but because it has been fulfilled, we are no longer bound by that but its the blood of Jesus that saves us now, meaning the law has been fulfilled and so we can now do leave out the blood of the lamb that was instructed as sacrifice in the law and cling to Jesus, the true and perfect sacrifice for our sins.

plaetton:

To actually twist this chapter and verses and imply that Jesus annulled the laws is pure blasphemy because by doing so, you are actually categorically repudiating the very words of Jesus.

Now, to take a giant leap over to say that Jthe death of Jesus miraculously(voodoo logic) annulled the same lows that he came to uphold is extremely absurd.

Since Jesus has fulfilled/completed the law, it means we are no longer debtors to it again, we are no longer bounded by it again, we now operate in love which goes far in fulfilling the law and the prophets.

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so unto them: 'for this is the law and the prophets'. (Mattew 7:12)"

Jesus said the above or are you doubting him?

Also, paul agrees with Jesus since they operate by the same Holy Spirit.

"For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; thou shalt love thy neigbour as thyself" (Galatians 5:14)

So as christians we now establish and fulfil the law again through love by the Spirit of God that dwells in us and not by those letters in the law because the letter killeth but the Spirit giveth life.

"Who hath made us able ministers of the new testament, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter killeth but the Spirit giveth life" (2 corinthians 3:6)

. .

plaetton:

I don't know what else to say to you guys.

You can't say anything// because you don't know anything// but just trying to know something// which may end up being nothing// hehe see my rhymes Oº°˚˚°ºh,

@Plaetton for God's sake the bible is not a logical book, its never bin a logical book and will never be. We learn and receive from it by faith, stop telling us to explain it logically.

well dayummmmm i guess i was wrong Plaetton ok lets nominate it for FP

noblefada: @Plaetton for God's sake the bible is not a logical book, its never bin a logical book and will never be. We learn and receive from it by faith, stop telling us to explain it logically.

Am very glad that you are conceding defeat by admitting that religious issues are not based on rational reasoning, but by irrational faith.

I salute you for that.

Once in a while, truth does come out.

plaetton:

Am very glad that you are conceding defeat by admitting that religious issues are not based on rational reasoning, but by irrational faith.

I salute you for that.

Once in a while, truth does come out.

And who told you logic guarantees truth?

plaetton:

Am very glad that you are conceding defeat by admitting that religious issues are not based on rational reasoning, but by irrational faith.

I salute you for that.

Once in a while, truth does come out.

You call that defeat haha, the Bible was never based on logic but faith. We are not competing with logic, just thought I should make that clarification. The summary is this, if u us a question and we give an answer, do reply and say it is illogical simple

haibe:

You can't say anything// because you don't know anything// but just trying to know something// which may end up being nothing// hehe see my rhymes Oº°˚˚°ºh,

You have twisted so much on this topic that I think you have forgotten what the question was.

Let me ask you again.
When Jesus said he came to fulfill the law and the prophets,
Based on whatever the word"fulfill" means to you,
Does the word fulfill mean the same as to annul or to void?
Simple answer please.
It either means to void(in which case Jesus would have been contradicting himself), or it does not(in which case, the laws are still valid.)

It makes absolutely no sense that Jesus expands the commandments in Mat.:5: 21-22,and 27-28, and then renders same commandments void by very same act of expanding or fulfilling it.
That would be the most preposterous and illogical proposition any literate person can make.

haibe:

And who told you logic guarantees truth?

Objectives truth is far superior, far more reliable and dependable that subjective truth.
If your truth cannot be universally tested and verified, then it is less than truth.
Another word for it would be delusions.

@plaetton, which part of the sentences do you not understand??

Okay, Jesus did not destroy the law bro, don't you know the meaning of destroy? Haba!! he fulfilled it, he met the requirement and since the law has been completed, it means it has ended and thus is not binding on us again.

But we as christians still carry out the real intent of that law by opereting in LOVE, LOVE is what those laws are founded upon and infact goes beyond what the law requires.

The law did not condemn lust right? But when you operate in love you do not lust at all, so Jesus was infact pointing out that only love can exercise the law perfectly when he equated lust with adultery, the law did not condemn anger without a cause right? But when you operate in love you do not get angry without a cause, all this because the Holy Spirit exercises the fruit of the Spirit through you, So love perfectly fulfills the law, not your trying to obey them individually.

plaetton:
Objectives truth is far superior, far more reliable and dependable that subjective truth.
If your truth cannot be universally tested and verified, then it is less than truth.
Another word for it would be delusions.

Hahaha, tell me something, its simple, the truth won't need your test because it goes beyond your brain, man made understanding and your logic and so you are not expected to understand unless you are willing to seek understanding from THE TRUTH Himself, Jesus is the truth. John 14:6

.

haibe:

Hahaha, tell me something, its simple, it won't need your test because it goes beyond your brain and so you are not expected to understand unless you are willing to seek understanding from He who made you.

So faith is like a drug that one must ingest in order to have scriptural reasoning?
Lol.
No wonder it is called the opium of the people.

Faith is bliss, isn't it? You make up whatever you want and believe in whatever you want.

Thanks, nut no thanks. I prefer to stay firmly planted and standing in reality.

plaetton:


Thanks, nut no thanks. I prefer to stay firmly planted and standing in reality.

Did we force you not to stay firmly planted and standing in your reality? No, you attacked us, that's why we are here.

haibe:

Did we force you not to stay firmly planted and standing in your reality? No, you attacked us, that's why we are here.

Correcttion.
I attack issues on public forums, not individuals.

plaetton:
Correcttion.
I attack issues on public forums, not individuals.

You will as well say you are replying the forum

Yet another Sunday, yet another week where billions of Christians have registered their names in hell for ignoring the Sabbath and keeping Sunday as a holy and worship day.

Don't say I did not warn you.
Neither Yahweh nor Jesus abolished the 4th commandment.
As a result, all prayers and petitions rendered today stands null and void. Infac , the petitioner just moved a little closer to hell today for going to church.
Repent all ye sinners, before the anger of Yahweh waxes strong against you.

you are just showing your shallowness in your bible understanding, what makes you think today (sunday) is the sabath?

haibe: you are just showing your shallowness in your bible understanding, what makes you think today (sunday) is the sabath?

I never said so. You guys subsituted Sunday for the Sabbath.
That's why hell for chriristians is a sure thing.

plaetton:

I never said so. You guys subsituted Sunday for the Sabbath.
That's why hell for chriristians is a sure thing.

you are still showing how shallow your understanding is, we do not substitute sunday for sabath, we are not bound by the sabath or those written laws in the OT, sunday, the first day of the week is when our Lord Jesus resurrected and so it has always been a day of worship since then, not like the sabath where you are bound not to do any work.

plaetton have had enough of this discussion, just try studying the bible without bias, you may end up being a pastor infact.