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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Pagan/traditional Rulers Sold Us To Slavery To The Whites- Inviting Pagan9ja &co (1738 Views)
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Re: Pagan/traditional Rulers Sold Us To Slavery To The Whites- Inviting Pagan9ja &co by PAGAN9JA(m): 5:37pm On Sep 27, 2013 |
joel lala: They have been doing it or ages. Before the europeans even set foot on their shores. Therefore it sounds absurd to them, to abolish it all of a sudden. The central problem lies in that these local Ijaw rulers have never seen the on-the-ground situation in the New world. They have just been practicing what they have been doing for ages, and with the advent of the europeans they easily found a new market. and please stop saying "their own Africans". They had not allegiance to any other African, save their own Ethnic group. and your page also states: Africans themselves played a role in the slave trade, by selling their captive or prisoners of war to European buyers. The prisoners and captives who were sold were usually from neighboring or enemy ethnic groups. These captive slaves were not considered part of the ethnic group or "tribe", African kings held no particular loyalty to them. Sometimes the criminals would be sold so that they could no longer commit crimes in that area. Most other slaves were obtained from kidnappings, or through raids that occurred at gunpoint through joint ventures with the Europeans. But some African kings refused to sell any of their captives or criminals. King Jaja of Opobo, himself a former slave, refused to do business with the slavers completely. However, Shahadah notes that with the rise of a large commercial slave trade, driven by European needs, enslaving enemies became less a consequence of war, and more and more a reason to go to war. Also note how the tribal eco-system of the past was destroyed by the europeans. In the past, slaves obtained where just by chance coincidence after tribal warfare. There were no wars waged "for the reason" of capturing slaves. There was no intensive market as well. However with the arrival of the evil industry-minded whites, the whole eco-system was destroyed, and wars started being waged for the sole reason of capturing slaves. In the same way that white industrialization caused the destruction of large-scale bison herds in the americas, extinction of Native AMerican Tribes, destruction of African forests and wildlife. what was before mere subsitence hunting became, serious large-scale wealth/greed driven industry. It is wrong to say that humans don't have an eco-system. We humans (tribals) have an eco-system too. Its disruption is extremely dangerous. By the way, is it just me, or has anyone noticed, how the dealings of small sections of the Ijaw (Bonny, Kalabar, etc.) such as the slave trade, twin killing ,etc., is applied to the entire African continent as a whole. I as a Hausman have absolutely nothing to do with this. Neither does my religion. 1 Like |
Re: Pagan/traditional Rulers Sold Us To Slavery To The Whites- Inviting Pagan9ja &co by PAGAN9JA(m): 5:40pm On Sep 27, 2013 |
macof: paganism are indigenous religions. It is not a singular religion on it's own. It comprises of all forms of spirituality practised along aside the cultures and traditions of a group of people. every ethnic group has it's own pagan religion. And it signifies mental independence and tribal patriotism. On point as usual. ![]() |
Re: Pagan/traditional Rulers Sold Us To Slavery To The Whites- Inviting Pagan9ja &co by PAGAN9JA(m): 5:42pm On Sep 27, 2013 |
joel lala: Rightly said. However different Pagan religions are neither answerable nor responsible for each other. Hausa religion is separate, christianity is separate , Ifa Orisha is separate, Hinduism is separate. Neither are answerable (or even aware) of each other. |
Re: Pagan/traditional Rulers Sold Us To Slavery To The Whites- Inviting Pagan9ja &co by Nobody: 6:19pm On Sep 27, 2013 |
PAGAN 9JA: To the first bolded, the reason why the leaders didnt want the trade to be abolished was simply because they were making enormous wealth from it and nothing more..Assuming the slave trade wasnt profitable, they will definately not be happy to trade with the whites. To the second bolded, i cant actually speak specifically for the ijaws but what i found out is that African rulers and merchants knew exactly what was happening in the new world, they even sent their children to school in europe via the same slave routes..so there is no way they can say they didnt know. To the third bolded, there was no intense market then like you said which i agree with you but there was a prospective market which was there..the europeans new that the african rulers and merchants will sell slaves and even hunt for more slave even if it is to destroy a village for their own selfish interest..(we are still seeing it happening in nigeria today were our leaders put their citizens to undue hardship for their own selfish interest). To the fourth bolded, hmmm i never knew much about the twin killings..thanks..i will have to read it up when am chanced.. To the last bolded, how were majority of the hausas converted from paganism into accepting islam? i would really like to know. |
Re: Pagan/traditional Rulers Sold Us To Slavery To The Whites- Inviting Pagan9ja &co by Nobody: 6:20pm On Sep 27, 2013 |
PAGAN 9JA: Ok...thank you |
Re: Pagan/traditional Rulers Sold Us To Slavery To The Whites- Inviting Pagan9ja &co by PAGAN9JA(m): 6:56pm On Sep 27, 2013 |
joel lala: Depends. again its greed-driven. let us return to the issue. our religion doesn't advocate slavery, and especially forced conversion of our slaves. and torture aswell.
islam spread gradually through trade, especially with the Berbers and Tuareg. Then depending on the current ruler, some converted just for names sake, some abolished islam, then their descendants again converted, it was abolished again and so on. Boori was the official cult of the court (run by women) and Maguzanci religion and other variants of Hausa Spirituality were widespread across the Bakwai (Hausa Confederate States). This easy co-existence continued until the new extremist ideologies of Usumane Dan Fodio, who started preaching radical islam to our ruler. At this time we had mostly returned to Paganism again or mixed it with islam. Our ruler,H.E.H. Sarkin Yunfa Dan Bawa, did not like it so he kicked Dan Fodio out. Dan Fodio then went to the Fuulbe cattle herders, (possibly brainwashing and converting some of them on the way) and asked them to declare war on Hausa Bakwai. We defeated them in our first battle and killed 2000 of the islamic jihadists (200 of them were Hafiz). However the treacherous man defeated a small Hausa state and established a recruitment base over there, surviving on our resources. We lost the second battle and our ruler, direct descendant of Bayanjidda, was killed. After the fall of most of the original Hausa states, islam spread easily in the past 200 years and was further enforced by the creation of the Sokoto caliphate , and upon the ruins of the seat of the Hausa throne. |
Re: Pagan/traditional Rulers Sold Us To Slavery To The Whites- Inviting Pagan9ja &co by Nobody: 7:14pm On Sep 27, 2013 |
Sorry double post |
Re: Pagan/traditional Rulers Sold Us To Slavery To The Whites- Inviting Pagan9ja &co by Nobody: 7:16pm On Sep 27, 2013 |
PAGAN 9JA: well i dont know your particular pagan religion however i am more interested in this dan fodio stuff..first, why did the pagans allow the mixture of both pagan and islamic practicises? Or didnt they have trust in their own beliefs anymore? When dan fodio was a threat why wasnt he taken care of once and for all..am just curious. |
Re: Pagan/traditional Rulers Sold Us To Slavery To The Whites- Inviting Pagan9ja &co by PAGAN9JA(m): 7:22pm On Sep 27, 2013 |
joel lala: Most of the population, were farmers and were mostly Pagan. Not all Hausa did it. Amongst the city dwellers, certain sections of the nobility, merchant-class, etc. accepted islam or were syncretizing due to trade, influence of new ideology ,etc. Also it is possible that muslim mercahnts from other nations would provide trade concessions, etc., to these people if they converted. As Pagans, nowhere is it stated in Hausa religion that you can't be a muslim. These Hausa were just trying it out and incorporating it according to the trend of the day. Dan Fodio was Sarkin Yunfas teacher. therefore it would be inconceivable for Yunfa to kill his elder and mentor at first. However when it was known that Dan Fodio's intentions were murderous and to topple the Empire because of his religious fanaticsm and possible power hunger, that is when it got out of hand. Dan Fodio was no royalty. He assumed the title of Lamido Juulbe only after going back to the Fulani herders for help. |
Re: Pagan/traditional Rulers Sold Us To Slavery To The Whites- Inviting Pagan9ja &co by TerryCarr(m): 7:49pm On Sep 27, 2013 |
joel lala:lol. Africa is a continent just like Europe not some ethnic identity [img]http://pslarson2.files./2011/01/murdockmapbound.png[/img] ![]() 1 Like |
Re: Pagan/traditional Rulers Sold Us To Slavery To The Whites- Inviting Pagan9ja &co by Nobody: 8:08pm On Sep 27, 2013 |
PAGAN 9JA: Ok..thank you for this. |
Re: Pagan/traditional Rulers Sold Us To Slavery To The Whites- Inviting Pagan9ja &co by PAGAN9JA(m): 8:12pm On Sep 27, 2013 |
joel lala: no problem. |
Re: Pagan/traditional Rulers Sold Us To Slavery To The Whites- Inviting Pagan9ja &co by macof(m): 8:02am On Sep 28, 2013 |
joel lala:u must be an uneducated fellow. Paganism was derived from the word pagan-meaning villager. It doesn't mean polytheism, it means indigenous, so whether ur paganic religion believes in one God or several gods it only means monotheistic and polytheistic, Not non-pagan and pagan. judaism is a paganic religion. don't try to distort English definitions to take Christianity away from it's paganic origin. Even now Judaism is a form of christianity in other words jewish paganism is a form of christianity. Even in catholicism Roman paganism still shows, with their use of idols. |
Re: Pagan/traditional Rulers Sold Us To Slavery To The Whites- Inviting Pagan9ja &co by PAGAN9JA(m): 8:14am On Sep 28, 2013 |
macof: u must be an uneducated fellow. Paganism was derived from the word pagan-meaning villager. It doesn't mean polytheism, it means indigenous, so whether ur paganic religion believes in one God or several gods it only means monotheistic and polytheistic, Not non-pagan and pagan. judaism is a paganic religion. don't try to distort English definitions to take Christianity away from it's paganic origin. Even now Judaism is a form of christianity in other words jewish paganism is a form of christianity. Even in catholicism Roman paganism still shows, with their use of idols. judaism is a man-made religion. It is not Paganism. However judaism is derived from pre-judaic Canaanite/Israelite religions during the days of the Hebrew Tribes. These are Pagan religions. |
Re: Pagan/traditional Rulers Sold Us To Slavery To The Whites- Inviting Pagan9ja &co by Rossikk(m): 8:41am On Sep 28, 2013 |
joel lala:There had been voices and campaigns against slavery from day One, and they were all summarily ignored. It was only when the economic rationale for slavery began to dwindle, and profits began dwindling owing to falling demand, that moralistic voices began getting attention by the ruling establishment. |
Re: Pagan/traditional Rulers Sold Us To Slavery To The Whites- Inviting Pagan9ja &co by macof(m): 10:36am On Sep 28, 2013 |
PAGAN 9JA:I didn't know that. But however it relates to the Jewish traditions and they follow the law of Moses. So in my opinion that seems pagan enough. |
Re: Pagan/traditional Rulers Sold Us To Slavery To The Whites- Inviting Pagan9ja &co by PAGAN9JA(m): 4:15pm On Sep 28, 2013 |
macof: I didn't know that. But however it relates to the Jewish traditions and they follow the law of Moses. So in my opinion that seems pagan enough. just like islam relates to Arab traditions. so according to your views, that would make islam an Arab traditional religion too. Infact this may even explain the reason why it would be extremely difficult to convert an Arab muslim. No. actually both have been tampered by men. (moses,muhammad). therefore both do not qualify. they are based on the teachings and works of prophets (men). This is why I say judaism is the source of all problems. it is the first religion to go against the natural Order of religion. the first breakaway from Paganism. Even during the Pagan days, israel was the most unstable region in terms of religion. they kept having religious fights and revolts with their neighbours and the Empire itself. why else do you think Pontius Pilate, the Roman Governor handed jesus over to the Sarheddin. he just didnt want to get involved and cause a new rebellion. infact, to make peace with the Jewish religious council, he ordered his men to do as dictated by them. its all politics. |
Re: Pagan/traditional Rulers Sold Us To Slavery To The Whites- Inviting Pagan9ja &co by ibibiogrl: 9:45am On Aug 15, 2021 |
PAGAN9JA:Lewis346 READ THIS & POST #9 by Folykaze ALSO from FIFA https://mobile.twitter.com/FIFAcom/status/1426469140731150339 Also the European fans in this video confirms it was racism that FIFA due to his country of origin that he wasn't officially awarded Ballon d'Or, even though he was name twice by FIFA, as confirmed in their Twitter yesterday. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niipt8tgTEk 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Pagan/traditional Rulers Sold Us To Slavery To The Whites- Inviting Pagan9ja &co by ibibiogrl: 11:50am On Aug 15, 2021 |
@Lewis346 Africans are thought to be the poorest worldwide, U agree but don't agree on poverty contributing to the situation in Nigeria, Yet using that poverty logic to excuse gang violence & gun murder in AfroAmerican communities. ![]() According to this map, Texas isn't that Rich compared to the cities in east coast where gun violence is at the highest in black American counties. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_poverty_rate Also according to this Houston isn't that much better than Chicago https://upgradedhome.com/chicago-vs-houston/#Job_Market Ure confusing Competition with wanting to be like Europeans. Nigerians are notorious for adapting ideas & making it better than the original. America is dominated by Whites, so Nigeriand will always compete with the best. That's how they became the most educated ethnic group. Right now they're trying to be the richest. Most of your points was heresay ![]() ![]() I already told U slavery was a business like drug dealing. Also majority were kidnappers, such won't limit their commodities, especially since women & children would be easier to capture. Do drug dealers limit their customer pool? Again colonial rule in Nigeria was indirectly from 1900-1960. just 60yrs & indirect rule so they barely had interaction with whites, U saw many white Brazilian worshipping the Yoruba King didn't U? Search 4 Uhuru dynasty, has said that Nigeria is the African country least dominated by whites & other foreigners in wealth. U should subscribe to his Chanel. Read this article now 4rm someone with your similar experience with whites has explained how Nigerians feel about race. https://africasacountry.com/2019/04/why-im-no-longer-talking-to-nigerians-about-race 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Pagan/traditional Rulers Sold Us To Slavery To The Whites- Inviting Pagan9ja &co by Lewis346: 3:52am On Aug 18, 2021 |
ibibiogrl:I believe who ever documents the data at that time along with scientific proof showing it to be true. And the 2 guys have their facts all the way wrong. With Europeans being ensl@ved you must be mostly referring to the "Barbary sl@ve trade" if you are talking about over 800k whites being ensl@ved. But thats not the same as naija at all. These people were captured by muslim Arab pir@tes at sea and taken by sw0rd and � point. This is litreally the only times where Europeans were ensl@ved by another outside group and it was due to piracy. Europeans didn't take anyone in naija by � point. They had full fliege deals with chiefs kings and local royal families who gladly accepted and benifited from things like tobacco cotton balls dinner plates. It was more of a all out buisness in naija and was very much welcomed. Documents shows us that it was about 12 million sl@ves who made it to the amaricas (almost half of that. 5 million) were peope from naija. The igbo out-of that had almost 2 million alone. These are all documented facts........that is very different then the Barbary sl@ve trade where arabs @mbushed Europeans at sea and destr0yed everyone then took who was left by sw0rd. This is why the 2 guys on nairaland got it wrong I believe who ever documents the data at that time along with scientific proof showing it to be true. And the 2 guys have their facts all the way wrong. With Europeans being ensl@ved you must be mostly referring to the "Barbary sl@ve trade" if you are talking about over 800k whites being ensl@ved. But thats not the same as naija at all. These people were captured by muslim Arab pir@tes at sea and taken by sw0rd and � point. This is litreally the only times where Europeans were ensl@ved by another outside group and it was due to piracy. Europeans didn't take anyone in naija by � point. They had full fliege deals with chiefs kings and local royal families who gladly accepted and benifited from things like tobacco cotton balls dinner plates. It was more of a all out buisness in naija and was very much welcomed. Documents shows us that it was about 12 million sl@ves who made it to the amaricas (almost half of that. 5 million) were peope from naija. The igbo out-of that had almost 2 million alone. These are all documented facts........that is very different then the Barbary sl@ve trade where arabs @mbushed Europeans at sea and destr0yed everyone then took who was left by sw0rd. This is why the 2 guys on nairaland got their facts wrong https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofEngland/Barbary-Pirates-English-Slaves/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/when-the-slave-traders-were-african-11568991595 |
Re: Pagan/traditional Rulers Sold Us To Slavery To The Whites- Inviting Pagan9ja &co by Kobojunkie: 4:10am On Aug 18, 2021 |
sylve11:I hope you are still not living in ignorance of our history.. ![]() |
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