mazaje:

Na wah ohhh. . .The way these guys go about confidently taking about nonsense is really mind boggling. . .

To you and other unbelievers you're perfectly correct, but to a believer well taught, he beg to differ.

Do you mind answering my question, dear friend?

plaetton:

My points here are very simple.
1. You say that the bible was written or inspired by the holy spirit. Right?

2. You say that one also has to be guided by the holy spirit to understand it. Right?

3. Then, you and your holy spirit inspired comrades in christ make different claims about the same holy spirit inspired writings.

Therefore, something is wrong with either 1 or 2 or both.

Take your pick.

mazaje:

The bible encourages people to be perfect, it says that be ye perfect as your father in heaven is perfect, meaning that christians can attain perfection with the help of the holy spirit not?. . .

Thank you very much for quoting that passage, its possible but a process with the HS and solely depends on the individual and the truth not all xtians will achieve this

Yeah right! Just like contradictory claims about everything in the world shows that nothing exists.

You have a very high IQ.

mazaje:

Contradictory claims about the holy spirit as done by the christians shows it does not exist. . .Pls when will the holy spirit solve the trinity issue for christians?. . .

No.

Now, please answer me plainly.

DO YOU SIN?

YES or NO?

noblefada:
I'm a believer and I'm born of God, then as for the second question, people are only scared of what they don't understand! so when a believer sins, that sin did not originate from his Spirit, but rather from his soulish (mind realm), that's what that scriptures was talking about. I much as possible I tried not to, but as one in the flesh I'm not 100%, but I meditate more on Gal 5:16. Let me ask you a question, can the Holy Spirit commit sin?

italo: Are you saying that contradictory claims about what the Holy Spirit has inspired proves that there is no Holy Spirit?

Common man! If you're searching for truth, the least you can do is be honest with yourself.

...that is if you're searching for truth.

Obviously so. For other wise, your holy spirit guided mind would not disagree with the holy spirit guided mind of Noblefada and others.

You can't have the holy spirit being wrong about the holy spirit. Can you?

noblefada:
Go and check, there has always been disagreements about the interpretation of scriptures, from the time of Jesus and the scribe to the early apostles, so it nothing new. But let me clarify the issue you have, the Holy Spirit is perfect, but the human vessel is not! so the disagreement in the understanding of scriptures in body of Christ rest solely on the human vessel because of the limitation of the flesh, that's why Paul said we know in part and prophesy in part, but when he shall come we shall know all things. Similar thing may apply in the law courts, the laws are there but judgement will only be based on how each attorney presents his case.

Ok.
So holy spirit is perfect, but it is humans that are deficient?
Ok fine.

But here, are you not now saying that the mind of man, no matter what he believes, is not mature enough to be trusted with holy spirit inspired works?

But you can have my mind or noblefada's mind or your mind or the minds of two of us or the minds of all three of us being wrong about the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

It still doesn't mean that the Holy Spirit doesnt exist or that one of us cannot be right about him.

You havent thought that far?

plaetton:

Obviously so. For other wise, your holy spirit guided mind would not disagree with the holy spirit guided mind of Noblefada and others.

You can't have the holy spirit being wrong about the holy spirit. Can you?

italo: Yeah right! Just like contradictory claims about everything in the world shows that nothing exists.

You have a very high IQ.

What are the contradictory claims about everything in the world?. . .Are you for real?. . .

italo: No.

Now, please answer me plainly.

DO YOU SIN?

YES or NO?

Ok good the HS cannot sin right? Now see this 1Co 2:12 KJV Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. And again 1Co 6:17 KJV But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
The regenerated Spirit is joint to the HS, so if the HS cannot, the Spirit of the man born again cannot sin. Hope this clarifies things for you.
As for your question I've answered it already, Yes I sin and as long as I put on this flesh, I may still sin but what does the scriptures 1Jn 2:1 KJV My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
Pls take note of the conditional clause, if any should sin.

noblefada:
Ok good the HS cannot sin right? Now see this 1Co 2:12 KJV Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. And again 1Co 6:17 KJV But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
The regenerated Spirit is joint to the HS, so if the HS cannot, the Spirit of the man born again cannot sin. Hope this clarifies things for you.
As for your question I've answered it already, Yes I sin and as long as I put on this flesh, I may still sin but what does the scriptures 1Jn 2:1 KJV My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
Pls take note of the conditional clause, if any should sin.

When will the elusive holy spirit come and solve this problem for our friends once and for all. . .Pls you both should pray to the holy spirit to come and help you out. . .E don do. . .

plaetton:

Ok.
So holy spirit is perfect, but it is humans that are deficient?
Ok fine.

But here, are you not now saying that the mind of man, no matter what he believes, is not mature enough to be trusted with holy spirit inspired works?

No I didn't say that, the mind of an unbeliever cannot comprehend the things of the Spirit, but the mind of the man born again can, because he now has the HS impacted into is own Spirit. The degree to which is can understand the things of the Spirit will depend on the degree he can renew his mind with the things of the Spirit! Rom 12:1-2 KJV I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

mazaje:

When will the elusive holy spirit come and solve this problem for our friends once and for all. . .Pls you both should pray to the holy spirit to come and help you out. . .E don do. . .

@mazaje I think u shouldn't bother about us, its normal in the body of Christ, its just a matter of knowledge.

noblefada:
No I didn't say that, the mind of an unbeliever cannot comprehend the things of the Spirit, but the mind of the man born again can, because he now has the HS impacted into is own Spirit. The degree to which is can understand the things of the Spirit will depend on the degree he can renew his mind with the things of the Spirit! Rom 12:1-2 KJV I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

j
He he.
But you have a born again mind and Italy also has a born again mind. So why can't your holy spirits agree?
Is the catholic holy spirit different from the Pentecostal holy spirit?

plaetton: j
He he.
But you have a born again mind and Italy also has a born again mind. So why can't your holy spirits agree?
Is the catholic holy spirit different from the Pentecostal holy spirit?

As I said being born again doesn't mean you know all things, the level you depends on the degree of you study and yielding to the HS, some people have been thought something all their lives, getting to change is not always an easy task even if scriptures are steering them in their face, a case of reference is speaking in tongues.
And there is only one Holy Spirit to every who has believed the gospel.

holy spirit confushon! (sic)
somebody needs to p*mp slap some sense into these comedians!

Oh please!

Lets me just free you for the sake of peace.

'If there are contradictory claims about something, that thing doesnt exist'--Mazaje.

Happy?!

mazaje:

What are the contradictory claims about everything in the world?. . .Are you for real?. . .

Thank you.

'A born-again does not sin'--noblefada.

"I am born-again"--noblefada.

"Yes I sin"--noblefada.

Case closed!

noblefada:
Ok good the HS cannot sin right? Now see this 1Co 2:12 KJV Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. And again 1Co 6:17 KJV But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
The regenerated Spirit is joint to the HS, so if the HS cannot, the Spirit of the man born again cannot sin. Hope this clarifies things for you.
As for your question I've answered it already, Yes I sin and as long as I put on this flesh, I may still sin but what does the scriptures 1Jn 2:1 KJV My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
Pls take note of the conditional clause, if any should sin.

italo: Thank you.

'A born-again does not sin'--noblefada.

"I am born-again"--noblefada.

"Yes I sin"--noblefada.

Case closed!

There something u keep missing out, I didn't say the born again does not sin, but the Spirit of the born again man. pls get it right!

Illuminatus:
You've spoken like a true cynic and athesist. I'm not going to say that they're wrong but I'm going to tell you that the Bible was written by inspiration from the Holy Spirit. Sometimes narrated in the Bible might seem Humanly impossible. But the thing is, nobody should be/is forcing you to believe or even agree. It takes Faith to be a true Christian, when you eventually want to be one, you'll understand.

you are wrong. Moses, jeremiah, ezekiel didn't have the holy spirit. And you comment about being one with Christ before understanding the Bible is BS. The best way to read the Bible is wit an unbiased mind.

Ajibam: you need to believe first...
you need holyspirit to explain the Scriptures to you, and you need to believe to get it...

that's why as an atheist you people understand the Bible ironically....

such dumb talk. Is the Bible not written in human language? Yes, and as such anybody that understands the language of his copy understands wat is written

noblefada:
There something u keep missing out, I didn't say the born again does not sin, but the Spirit of the born again man. pls get it right!

Why then were you challenging me when I said it is heretical for Ajibam to say he cant sin?

There was no mention of "spirit" there.

macof: such dumb talk. Is the Bible not written in human language? Yes, and as such anybody that understands the language of his copy understands wat is written

You really believe an Atheist can understand when the Bible says "The Holy Spirit shall overshadow you" etc?

macof: you are wrong. Moses, jeremiah, ezekiel didn't have the holy spirit. And you comment about being one with Christ before understanding the Bible is BS. The best way to read the Bible is wit an unbiased mind.

Who said those men didnt have the Holy Spirit?

Thats why we keep saying "you cant understand."

Not like you cant understand anything...but theres way too much you'll dont comprehend if you dont believe.

You just wont get the gist of the story.

italo:

You really believe an Atheist can understand when the Bible says "The Holy Spirit shall overshadow you" etc?

So the bible is similar to a Ginnie's lamp, You open it and a holy spirit jumps out and does abracadabra on your brain?

plaetton:

So the bible is similar to a Ginnie's lamp, You open it and a holy spirit jumps out and does abracadabra on your brain?

Hahaha. Very funny.

italo: Oh please!

Lets me just free you for the sake of peace.

'If there are contradictory claims about something, that thing doesnt exist'--Mazaje.

Happy?!

The contradictory claims of the holy spirit as presented by the christians shows it doesn't exist, remember the holy spirit is said to live in christians , it is supposed to teach, guide and explain things, is it the same holy spirit that is guiding and explaining things to Enigma and Oladegbuu that is also explaining things to you?. . .When then to you disagree ALL of the time?. . .All of you confidently and sincerely lay claim to this elusive and abstract holy spirit. . .

italo:

Why then were you challenging me when I said it is heretical for Ajibam to say he cant sin?

There was no mention of "spirit" there.

I said in an earlier post that someone speak from the stand point of spirit, a way of training our minds to conform to who we are in the spirit. That's why we confessions "I love, I forgive, I'm a victor, I walk by the word", this are realities of who we are in Christ.

macof: you are wrong. Moses, jeremiah, ezekiel didn't have the holy spirit. And you comment about being one with Christ before understanding the Bible is BS. The best way to read the Bible is wit an unbiased mind.

Why speak very boldly about what u know about? 2Pe 1:20-21]] KJV 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
That's why I've bin telling u guys to keep away from this book.

italo:

You really believe an Atheist can understand when the Bible says "The Holy Spirit shall overshadow you" etc?

big grammar has nothing to do wit believe or holy spirit

Some posters write about the bible as if it was composed by God in heaven and delivered via wap push to your android 4.0 jellybean, nothing could be further from the truth. The narratives and accounts in the bible were written by men, yes they were inspired but no more inspired than your average present day pastor quick to ascribe their every thought and deed, however hackneyed and cynical….to the divine. What is clear is that bible authors who are mostly anonymous particularly in the NT had their own agendas, and unless you understand the agenda of the author, his doctrinal leanings as well as prevailing circumstances of the time the bible is hard going.

This fallacy that a lay person cannot understand the bible unless the holy spirit ‘’guides’’ one, is simply a ruse to ensure a non-critical examination of the book as well as a distinct unwillingness by church leaders to tackle the huge problems in a book that does not stand up to scrutiny.

As a book of faith I believe it is most suitable for believers

italo:

Who said those men didnt have the Holy Spirit?

Thats why we keep saying "you cant understand."

Not like you cant understand anything...but theres way too much you'll dont comprehend if you dont believe.

You just wont get the gist of the story.

according to ur Bible, the holy spirit first came to earth on the day of passover. There was never any record of anybody possessed by anything called holy spirit before Acts. Ur minds are full of illusions. Pls snap back to reality