olabowale:

@Justcool:« #81 on: Yesterday at 10:55:27 PM »
Alhamdulillah. Justcool, when God the Almighty Allah was going to bring me victory, he made you write down the parts that I enboldened. The case of saying Jesus is son of God is enough as my proof. You got it from your grail message, didn't you?

I do not have to see a filt, (Human excrement), before I know am near an open sewer, a treatment plant or just Shalanga, Yiani, Shosho, Sarabe, etc (courtesy of old Fela song lyrics). The stench is enough.

I have read enough from what M_Nwankwo put forward, and then people like you. You guys copy the ideas in the Bible about Jesus and God. Except that you deny, comfortably that God does not punish, since you consider punishment as evil thing.

@Olabowale
In your initial false acaccusations to which I replied  you said:

olabowale:
@KunleOshob and others: It is grail message that you people will now find guidance? There is no true guidance in Bible and definitely, it is even worse in the grail message (unfortunately I tend to want to call it gray flannel, but I am fighting the urge, hard). This grail message is the stepping stone to occultizm, if not it already. Its a convolution of idea that centres not on God Almighty, but denial of His true essence. It is claiming that God will never punish. That will be wrong.

Tell me how does the fact that the Grail Message stated that Jesus is the son of God justfy your above claims. How does this fact(that the Grail Message stated that Jesus is the son of God) justify your accusing the Grail Message of these:
(1) "There is no true guidance in Bible and definitely, it is even worse in the grail message (unfortunately I tend to want  to call it gray flannel, but I am fighting the urge, hard)."
(2) "This grail message is the stepping stone to occultizm, if not it already."
(3) "Its a convolution of idea that centres not on God Almighty, but denial of His true essence."

All these claims and acussations that you made are completely false. You claim that you got these false impression from m_nwankwo's and mine's posts.

Firstly, I challenge your to provide posts where m_nwankwo and I made such claims

Secondly, even if we did, I have always stated at the end of my explanations that what I explain are my personal perception of the Grail message. My personal perception could be wrong and the Grail Message should not be judged based on just my perception of it. Read it your self and evaluate it based on your own perception.

Thanks


The words in red are Olabowale's words and not mine.

@Justcool: « #96 on: Today at 12:25:06 AM »
[Quote]
Alhamdulillah. Justcool, when God the Almighty Allah was going to bring me victory, he made you write down the parts that I enboldened. The case of saying Jesus is son of God is enough as my proof. You got it from your grail message, didn't you?

I do not have to see a filt, (Human excrement), before I know am near an open sewer, a treatment plant or just Shalanga, Yiani, Shosho, Sarabe, etc (courtesy of old Fela song lyrics). The stench is enough.

I have read enough from what M_Nwankwo put forward, and then people like you. You guys copy the ideas in the Bible about Jesus and God. Except that you deny, comfortably that God does not punish, since you consider punishment as evil thing.


@Olabowale
In your initial false acaccusations to which I replied you said:


Quote from: olabowale
@KunleOshob and others: It is grail message that you people will now find guidance? There is no true guidance in Bible and definitely, it is even worse in the grail message (unfortunately I tend to want to call it gray flannel, but I am fighting the urge, hard). This grail message is the stepping stone to occultizm, if not it already. Its a convolution of idea that centres not on God Almighty, but denial of His true essence. It is claiming that God will never punish. That will be wrong.


Tell me how does the fact that the Grail Message stated that Jesus is the son of God justfy your above claims. How does this fact(that the Grail Message stated that Jesus is the son of God) justify your accusing the Grail Message of these:
(1) "There is no true guidance in Bible and definitely, it is even worse in the grail message (unfortunately I tend to want to call it gray flannel, but I am fighting the urge, hard)."
[/quote]

The greater sin is the worship of anything other than One God Almighty, without an offspring, or parents. He has no partner. Since you and others claim that Jesus is more that just and mere human prophet to his people from God, you will see how I come to the conclusion of the lack of the right guidance from grail message, christianity, Judaism, hinduism and others.

(2) "This grail message is the stepping stone to occultizm, if not it already."

If you look at the masonic orders, you will see that grail message is in the same pattern. The masonic lodge orders believe in parts of every religion. Most claim to be christians. Even they study the Qur'an in their own plans and evil twists as they get to the highest of level. This I have been told by those who have been members.

(3) "Its a convolution of idea that centres not on God Almighty, but denial of His true essence."

Justcool, let me make it clear to you. If you put on me what is not mine, regardless of your claim, it will not actually be an accurate description of my person. To those who know me well, they will not be able to identify me by your data of my person. That in itself is the denial of my actual existence, as i do exist now. When you say that God has a son, you have shifted to a different God, and not the God Almighty who has no parents and He is not a parent of anyone.

All these claims and acussations that you made are completely false. You claim that you got these false impression from m_nwankwo's and mine's posts.

Firstly, I challenge your to provide posts where m_nwankwo and I made such claims

Secondly, even if we did, I have always stated at the end of my explanations that what I explain are my personal perception of the Grail message. My personal perception could be wrong and the Grail Message should not be judged based on just my perception of it. Read it your self and evaluate it based on your own perception.

M_Nwankwo has always stated that he draws his statements from the grail message. This is enough, as a proof. Please note that I do not have to go back to provide every claim. All I have to do is just to disprove the grail message, just from your unsubstantiated claim of his 100% accuracy. By the way, when did this religion/way, grail message began? Before Jesus or after him? Regardless of when, Allah says in Surah Al Maidah (Chapter 5), that He has bestowed on mankind as a favor His perfection of the completed religion of Islam on in the watch of the noble Messenger (AS). Allah further says, whosoever choose another way, he has gone astray, indeed.

Thanks


The words in red are Olabowale's words and not mine.

I affirm.

@Olabowale

M_Nwankwo has always stated that he draws his statements from the grail message. This is enough, as a proof. Please note that I do not have to go back to provide every claim. All I have to do is just to disprove the grail message, just from your unsubstantiated claim of his 100% accuracy. 

Yes sir, I draw from the Grail Message. There is nothing I and Justcool have written to make you make the false and ill informed allegations about the Grail Message. If you are not sure of what I meant in some of my postings, then you can ask me to explain. Besides, my explanations should not be regarded as proo[/b]f by you. [b]This is because as a creature of God I can only absorb and transmit the knowlege mediated in the Grail Message as a creature with the obvious limitations. Therefore seekers are always advised to examine the Grail Message itself. The Grail Message is the proof and if you want to dispute it, then read it and then put forward your rebuttals. That is the right way. If however you do not want to read it as you have previously stated, then leave it alone. You can challenge and dispute my submissions and provide evidence for your assertion. In that way, we can have meaniful debate. Cheers!

@M_Nwankwo: I already provided my proofs: I said that you said that you only draw from th grail message. You affirmed the same. I said that you claim like the christians, that Jesus is son of God. You affirm the same. I said that anything you consider evil, eg, punishment, diseases, hellfire, etc are not possible for God to do, because he will be incapable of doing these evil things. You classify God to be about Love, etc. If I am wrong, please correct me.

Alhamdulillah, you already know my condition. I am not curious about grail message, the same way am not curious about any woman that is forbidden to me. I know my limitation and I know what i want. My interest as i have said is to actually ask you, when did this grail message came to existence? You have not answered that question, as I am posing it the second time now.

Finally, since you and the founder of the grail message may be limited in knowledge, just like everyone of us, and your founder not being a prophet and messenger of God Almighty, since i am sure of it, you will not disagree with me that he and the message could be deficient? Would you?

Hi again Olabowale

@M_Nwankwo: I already provided my proofs: I said that you said that you only draw from th grail message. You affirmed the same. I said that you claim like the christians, that Jesus is son of God. You affirm the same. I said that anything you consider evil, eg, punishment, diseases, hellfire, etc are not possible for God to do, because he will be incapable of doing these evil things. You classify God to be about Love, etc. If I am wrong, please correct me. 

Let me repeat what I said and stand by
1. I draw from the Grail Message.
2. The Grail Message reveals that Jesus is the son of God. I am absolutely convinced about it.
3. Evil did not come from God. Evil originated as a result of the misapplication of the power of God, that is as a result of the wrong use of the free will by man. The laws of God is the master program that detemines what was, what is and what will ever be. It is these laws that return to each one the fruits of the seeds he or she has sown through the use of his or her free will. Blessings if the seeds sown are in accordance with the laws of God and punishment if the seeds are in disobedience to the laws of God.
4. God, the creator of all the worlds can not be classified. The actiivities of God can be found in the creations of God. Such activities of God always manifest in Love and Justice. Thus an understanding of Love and Justice will lead one to an understanding of Gods activities and an understanding of Gods activities will lead the seeker to the recognition of God.

My interest as i have said is to actually ask you, when did this grail message came to existence? You have not answered that question, as I am posing it the second time now.

The book "In The Light of Truth-The Grail Message" is the work of Abd-ru-shin. He wrote the work between 1923-1937.

Finally, since you and the founder of the grail message may be limited in knowledge, just like everyone of us, and your founder not being a prophet and messenger of God Almighty, since i am sure of it, you will not disagree with me that he and the message could be deficient? Would you?

My knowlege is limited since I am merely a creature of God. The Grail Message however is the WHOLE TRUTH. The identity of Abdrushin can be recognised from his work. Cheers!

@M_Nwankwo:

My knowlege is limited since I am merely a creature of God. The Grail Message however is the WHOLE TRUTH. The identity of Abdrushin can be recognised from his work. Cheers!

My main man, thanks. Abdrushin, was some arab guy. He must have lacked some direction to his Arabic Identity.

olabowale:

@M_Nwankwo:
My main man, thanks. Abdrushin, was some arab guy. He must have lacked some direction to his Arabic Identity.

@olabowale
You are once again very wrong in your claim that Abd-ru-shin was some arab guy.

Abd-ru-shin was a German not some arab guy.

Please get your facts right in-order not to missinform people and lead them astray.

wasnt Abd-ru-shin just a pen name?

@HR.hotness
Welcome to this thread!

HR.hotness:

wasnt Abd-ru-shin just a pen name?

Abd-ru-shin's civil name was Oskar Ernst Bernhardt.

You can read His biography in this link:
http://www.cinemaseekers.com/Christ/Abdrushin.html

Thanks and remain blessed.

@Justcool:« #102 on: Yesterday at 10:12:17 PM »
[Quote] from: olabowale on Yesterday at 10:02:43 PM
@olabowale
You are once again very wrong in your claim that Abd-ru-shin was some arab guy.

Abd-ru-shin was a German not some arab guy.

Please get your facts right in-order not to missinform people and lead them astray.
[/quote]

A non-muslim is already astray. Let me ask you, from my name, Olabowale, would you take it that my bloodline is not Yoruba or at least I like yoruba culture? Would you believe that I am a white German with that type of name, Olabowale, except that until you see me that am actually white with a German accent in speech with all acutremen of being a German?

This is the same idea that I developed with the name Abd-ru-shin! tell me what part of this name is Germanic?The natural inclination is for anyone, who has not read his work, seen his picture and don't care for both is to assume, only from the name that Abd (Servant/slave in Arabic) ru (Spirit/soul) shin, is an Arab! Get it together, man. Or Justcool is a natural name for any tribe in Africa, if you are an African? Olabowale is at least identifiable with those who speak Yoruba, in Africa, and not Germans. The same goes for this dishonest fake Abd ru shin man who could not use his real name. The Germanic name.

If he had penned a masterpiece as you people claimed, why not using his real name? Muhammad (as), did not have the ability to pen Qur'an, but we know his full name and he told us who the real Author, that gave it to him, through revelations!

And the man whose D is M_Nwankwo, I can safely assume that he is an Igboman or trying to pass up as one. But definitely, I will not say he is hausa or bambara of mali or Phular of Senegal or Julla of Guinea Conackry. This is the reason that I said Abd ru shin was an Arab, and not German. Get it?

olabowale:

@Justcool:« #102 on: Yesterday at 10:12:17 PM »
A non-muslim is already astray. Let me ask you, from my name, Olabowale, would you take it that my bloodline is not Yoruba or at least I like yoruba culture? Would you believe that I am a white German with that type of name, Olabowale, except that until you see me that am actually white with a German accent in speech with all acutremen of being a German?

This is the same idea that I developed with the name Abd-ru-shin! tell me what part of this name is Germanic?The natural inclination is for anyone, who has not read his work, seen his picture and don't care for both is to assume, only from the name that Abd (Servant/slave in Arabic) ru (Spirit/soul) shin, is an Arab! Get it together, man. Or Justcool is a natural name for any tribe in Africa, if you are an African? Olabowale is at least identifiable with those who speak Yoruba, in Africa, and not Germans. The same goes for this dishonest fake Abd ru shin man who could not use his real name. The Germanic name.

If he had penned a masterpiece as you people claimed, why not using his real name? Muhammad (as), did not have the ability to pen Qur'an, but we know his full name and he told us who the real Author, that gave it to him, through revelations!

olabowale:

And the man whose D is M_Nwankwo, I can safely assume that he is an Igboman or trying to pass up as one. But definitely, I will not say he is hausa or bambara of mali or Phular of Senegal or Julla of Guinea Conackry. This is the reason that I said Abd ru shin was an Arab, and not German. Get it?

@ Olabowale
Either way you look at it the fact remains that you made a hasty presumption. Such hasty and wrong presumptions could lead people astray. I still maintain that one should familiarize oneself with a concept before he/she tries to criticise or judge it. 
You assumed He was arabic just because the name sounds arabic, and therefore you labelled him "some arab guy who must have lacked some direction to his Arabic Identity." Now consider this: My name is Fidelis, which is a latin name. (Fidelis is the latin word for faithfulness). Now is it right to label me Latino because of my name. Millions of Afrricans have  European first names. Does this allow people hastily label them Europeans who must have lacked direction to their European identity?

The fact that Abd-ru-shin wrote His book with that name does not mean that He was being dishonest. Neither was He hiding His civil identity, like you falsley infered in your post. His civil identity and biography is there for any body to read, He never tried to hide them. Infact His biography is always written in most of His works.

There are several reasons why people use pen names:
(1) Modesty -- Some writers out of modesty chose to use pen names.
(2) Acceptability -- Some writers use pen names that are more acceptable than their civil names. I.e, Authors with western names reach a wider audience. 
(3) To Avoid Prejudice -- Some names carry prejudice.
(4) ETC

But let us return to Abd-ru-shin.
In the case of Abd-ru-shin, He did not chose the Abd-ru-shin because of any of the three reasons above. Thus in the case of Abd-ru-shin, none of the three reason above suffices. Abd-ru-shin was actually His name. If you know the significance of names and the spiritual laws guiding names, then I will explain more to you. But for now all I will tell you is that:

(1) Abd-ru-shin was actually His name. A name that He had in His previous incarnation.
(2) Abd-ru-shin is the name that actually represents His task and His identity. Abd-ru-shin roughly translates to "Servant of the Light, or Workman for the Light." The light refered to here is God. While writing the "Grail Message," He was a servant of God because He draws His knowledge from God. Hence He is the "servant of the Light," in other words "Abd-ru-shin." Another way to look at it is this way: In His work, He brought the Light(Which is the eternal Truth) into the world. Thus by serving or giving the world the Light, He becomes the servant of the Light or God Whose will He fulfills

Thefore Abd-ru-shin is not just a pen name. It is actually what the writer of the Grail Message is. It is His work, His nature, and His identity.

If I am hired to perform  engineering services to a facility, it often happens that while performing my services, people will call me "engineer" and not Fidelis. This is not falsehood, but rather pure honesty, because they reffer to me by what I do. This is a course analogy though.

Our names are not just forms of identification but who we are. In our names lies our nature, and activity. Thus in the case of Abd-ru-shin, in His first incarnation on earth,when He was trained for His future mission, He bore the name "Abd-ru-shin," a name that suits His activity and nature. On His second incarnation, He bore the civil name Oskar Ernst Bernhardt, until He became conscious of His mission, which is to serve God by bringing the TRUTH to the world. Once He started His Mission, He became the workman or servant for the Light, thus Abd-ru-shin. At this point calling Him by any other name would be inappropriate for He was fulfilling the task which Abd-ru-shin was trained for thousands of years ago. He was completing the Mission that He started as Abd-ru-shin.

Therefore He presents His work as Abd-ru-shin, becuase this work(The Grail Message) is not civil service but rather service for God. It will be inappropriate to use a civil name in a work He does for God. Where you perform civil service, you use your civil name, and where you perform service for God you use the name that God gave you to aid you in your service for Him.

You see now why Mary was instructed to give the Son of God the name "Jesus." Jesus in the jewish version translates, "the lord saves or lord the saviour" In this name lies the nature, identity and also bears witness to the mission of Jesus.

All that I have written above is my perception of Abd-ru-shin and His work. Strive through you own perception to recognize Him. Examin His work(The Grail Message) which bears witness to His origin.

Thanks

The words in red are Olabowale's not mine.

One question I would like to ask about Grail message is what, if there is any, connection it has with the Holy Grail legend as told by Godfrey Eschenbach?

Pastor AIO:

One question I would like to ask about Grail message is what, if there is any, connection it has with the Holy Grail legend as told by Godfrey Eschenbach?

There are many legends of the Grail, Eschenbach Grail Legend is just one of them. The articles of Werner Heuemer (links provided below) may help to address your question. The links are:

http://www.grailworld.com/Fascination.htm
http://www.grailworld.com/Fascination2.htm
http://www.grail-uk.net/index.php?page=133

Stay blessed.

@Justcool:

@ Olabowale
Either way you look at it the fact remains that you made a hasty presumption. Such hasty and wrong presumptions could lead people astray. I still maintain that one should familiarize oneself with a concept before he/she tries to criticise or judge it.
You assumed He was arabic just because the name sounds arabic, and therefore you labelled him "some arab guy who must have lacked some direction to his Arabic Identity." Now consider this: My name is Fidelis, which is a latin name. (Fidelis is the latin word for faithfulness). Now is it right to label me Latino because of my name. Millions of Afrricans have European first names. Does this allow people hastily label them Europeans who must have lacked direction to their European identity?

Definitely, you will not make the mistake that I am not a Yoruba Nigerian, from my name? Or will you? I like people to be straight out like that. Do nor forget that I have an first name also.

Since you believe that somebody is reincarnated, from an arabic heritage to a germanic one, i wonder if he considered that as a punishment or a blessing? Well, he is dead now, i am assuming this. I would have asked to find this out from him. Okay, when he is coming back again, for more incarnations, what heritage will it come in? I am making fun of the whole terrible silly concept of reincarnation.

Just imagine this silly concept for a moment. Since man consists of body and spirit/soul, where do all the spirits/sould of these more than 6 B humans come from? From the single Adam soul/spirit? The single spirit/soul is every splitting into many and many more? lol.

olabowale:

@Justcool:
Definitely, you will not make the mistake that I am not a Yoruba Nigerian, from my name? Or will you? I like people to be straight out like that. Do nor forget that I have an first name also.

Since you believe that somebody is reincarnated, from an arabic heritage to a germanic one, i wonder if he considered that as a punishment or a blessing? Well, he is dead now, i am assuming this. I would have asked to find this out from him. Okay, when he is coming back again, for more incarnations, what heritage will it come in? I am making fun of the whole terrible silly concept of reincarnation.
Just imagine this silly concept for a moment. Since man consists of body and spirit/soul, where do all the spirits/sould of these more than 6 B humans come from? From the single Adam soul/spirit? The single spirit/soul is every splitting into many and many more? lol.

@ Olabowale
With all friendliness.
You clearly stated that you are making fun of the concept of reincarnation which you also call a silly concept. Hence you are not here to seriously examine issues. You have made up your mind that the idea of reincarnation is silly; therefore there is no need for me to try to explain reincarnation to you.

Truth should only be given to him who seriously seeks; Not to him who thinks that he has already found it, and definitely not to him who finds it funny and calls it silly. Otherwise will be a defilement or dishonoring of the Truth.

However I wish to answer your question about whether Abd-ru-shin' s incarnation was a blessing or a curse. Here is my answer:
It is neither a blessing nor a curse for Him. It is a blessing to we human spirits, who He brought the TRUTH for. His incarnations was not compelled by any karma. In His case, as in the case of many prophets, He was sent by God for the benefit of the erring mankind. He incarnates among the people who are spiritually developed enough to receive him. And in an environment that will allow Him to fulfill His task.

The Arabs at the time of His first incarnation, were able to receive Him due to their spiritual development; and they provided the most suitable environment for Him to fulfill the task of His first incarnation. However, In the time of His second incarnation they are no longer at that level spiritually. Only the Germans meet the conditions necessary for such incarnation; hence He incarnated among them.

I could have gladly explain reincarnation and the laws guiding it to you, in far greater detail; however you have shown that you are only here to make fun of it. Hence I cannot go into details.

Also m_nwankwo and I are only in this thread to clarify any misconceptions that people have about the Grail Message. The purpose of this thread is to clarify people's misconceptions or answers people's questions about the Grail Message. You keep asking questions about the writer of the message. This is the wrong way to proceed; if you are a true seeker you should start by examining the message not the bringer. I have said enough about Abd-ru-shin.

My advice to you is this: If you are here to make fun of issues, and not here to weigh or examine the Grail Message, then gently dismiss yourself from this thread.

Thanks.

Deep is the yearning for the TRUTH. I was just relaxing and thought I take a search in here and very glad reading through this thread. The beauty is that the creator of this thread has received the answers to issues that perturbed him. Thanks to the reflections of everyone. A beautiful experience for me. So much colours has been thrown in here and I wonder from where should I paint. I'll simply paint from the ones homogenous to me. I sense that's a good place to start from. The TRUTH is the TRUTH no matter what we call it, it still remains the TRUTH. The experience I have received here today has simply strengthened me with the power to act consciously in all that I do. Watch and pray that you do not FALL into temptation. This to me is a guide against Falling, for all experiences (temptations) confronted aright simply makes us lighter. This I strive to understand for knowledge is of no avail where there's no understanding. I have examined the Grail Message and do not see myself worthy to speak on the Grail Message. For each time I examine it, I find that there's something new to absorb. So I can only share with others my experiences base on the knowledge I receive from the Grail Message.
Justcool and m_nwankwo has given to us a picture that we should take home and digest. We should learn to examine aright all that we say, think and do that way what comes out will have a good form with all sense of beauty. Also we should refrain from saying things we do not know but seek clarification earnestly. This we can achieve if we make the effort.

Best wishes

I've really missed a lot here.
Well guys keep up the good work

Dear Forum Members,

In the spirit of transparency, I am copying this Forum on the response I sent to Mr. Stephen Leary for the article he posted on his BLOG and referenced in this thread of discussions regarding the Grail Message:

*********************************************
Dear Mr. Leary,

Your article was brought to my attention and I feel it is appropriate to respond.  Your article presents a very distorted view of the Grail Message.
It is unfortunate that you did not do your homework before you slandered this Message thus debasing the Truth.

That being said, I forgive you for the harm and damage to my personal and professional life as a result of the misrepresentations in your
article.  You also have my best wishes for redemption for the countless human beings you have led astray regarding the errors you attributed to the
Grail Message-In the Light of Truth.

If however, a sincere wish to make amends for the misstatements in your article arises within you, you will be well served to read the book In the Light of Truth - The Grail Message before forming any further conclusions.

Alfred Lewis (aolewis@hotmail.com)

The Grail Message Cordinator[ s ],
[ a ] My Eductional Qualifications:-
[ I ] west african school certificate from nimo secondary school, nimo in njikoka local government arrea of Nigeria in 1978.
[ ii ] general certificate of education, november, 1978/1985.
[ iii ] associateship diploma in international shipping from Cardiff institute of shipping management,
London in 1987.
[ iv ] diploma in banking and finance from institute of journalis and continuing education, enugu in enugu state of Nigeria in 1993.
[ v ] diploma in computer software application from American computer college, awka in awka soith local government area of anambra state of Nigeria on 1996.
[b ] Other Details Of Me Below:-
[ 1 ] my home town: enugwu-ukwu
[ 2 ] local government area of origin: njikoka
[ 3 ] state of origin: anambra
[ 4 ] country of origin: Nigeria
[ 5 ] sub region: West Afrrica
[ 6 ] continent: Africa
[7 ] date of birth: 12/1/60.
Yours in Grail Movement, Nigeria,
onyekwelu fideelis ejike [mr ]
my email: f_onyekwelu@yahoo.com

Did you read also the real Grail Message and Resonances, or just the Grail Movement remake from 1949?

ACTUALLY WHAT I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THIS GRAIL ISSUE IS THAT MOST OF THE CROSS BEARERS SHOULD GO ON THEIR KNEES AND ASK GOD TO SHINE HIS TRUE LIGHT ON THEIR HEARTS AND SHOW THEM THE RIGHT WAY, INSTEAD OF TAKING WHAT THEY NEED FROM THE BIBLE AND DISCREDITING IT AT THE SAME TIME. I HAVE BEEN THERE, BUT THANK GOD I CAME OUT. BUT BEFORE I CAME OUT , I PASSED THROUGH THE FIRE.
THEY HATE CHURCH, THAT IS NO 1 TRUTH THOUGH THEY TRY TO HIDE FROM THAT FACT, THE SECOND THING IS THAT THEY BELIEVE THAT EVERY OTHER PERSON IS A FOOL, because THEY HAVE ALL THE WISDOM. IF U WANT TO CONFIRM WHAT I'M SAYING, ATTEND THEIR PUBLIC MEETING , WHEN IT IS TIME TO ASK QUESTIONS, THEY WILL BE SHAKING THEIR HEADS FOR YOU WHEN YOU ASK SOME CORE QUESTIONS, INFACT MOST OF THEM ARE VERY ARROGANT.
THEY DONT BELIEVE IN IMMACULATE CONCEPTION, FROM WHAT I LEARNT WHILE I WAS THERE, IT WAS A ROMAN SOLDIER THAT MARY WAS BETROTHED TO THAT SLEPT WITH HER IN A GARDEN OF SOME SORT.
GRAIL MESSAGE TWISTED THE BIBLE, IN SHORT ABD RU SHIN IS THE HOLY SPIRIT THAT JESUS PROMISED THE DISCIPLES, HE NOW CAME IN A BODILY FORM AFTER SOME YEARS, AND WHAT HAPPENS ON THE PENTECOST WAS NOT OF ANY SIGNIFICANCE TO THEM, ACCORDING TO THE TEACHINGS.
WHAT I REALISED WAS EVERYTIME I READ THE VOLUME, I HAVE THIS SEARING HEADACHE AND THIS USUALLY HAPPENS WHEN I AM READING HERESIES. I WAS SO GOOD IN THEIR CLASS THAT THE MAN TAKING US ON THE GRAIL MESSAGE(A CLASS HELD FOR BEGINNERS), SAID I WAS THE BEST IN THE CLASS. I WOULDN'T SAY MUCH NOW, BUT BELIEVE ME IT IS NOT THE WAY,BECAUSE IF IT IS, THE DOOR SHOULD BE OPENED TO THE UNSAVED.
CHRIST SEARCHED ME OUT AND BROUGHT ME OUT OF DARKNESS, HE SHOWED ME WHERE I WAS HEADED AND SAVED ME.
IF YOU ARE NOT IN, DONT VENTURE INTO IT because ONLY A FEW PEOPLE ARE LUCKY TO COME OUT. BUT GOD HAS REALLY GIVEN US A FREE WILL TO CHOOSE, BUT MIND YOU , YOU WILL PAY IF YOU CHOOSE THE WRONG THING BECAUSE YOU THINK IT SUITS YOU. GO TO WWW.THAINDIANS.COM/NEWSPORTAL/TAG/ABD-RU/SHIN,OR GOT TO GOOGLE AND TYPE IN ABD RU SHIN NEWS, READ ABOUT THE WOMAN THAT WAS EATING HER TWO SON'S ALIVE WITH HER RELATIONS WHO WERE GRAIL ADHERENTS LIKE HERSELF,SHE DID THIS DUE TO THE PRESSURE PUT ON HER BY THE GRAIL MOVEMENT LEADER OF HER COUNTRY, PEOPLE BEWARE O.

@ just cool, m nwankwo;

I have read the message a number of times. I must say it is easily the clearest and most incisive work of spiritual truth in history.

I derived strong insights from it.

I was in fact going to become a cross bearer, but one thing has held me back: the authour's claim about his personal identity. You know what i'm talking about. I neednt state it here as it may confuse other seekers. Can you clarify why anybody should believe stupendous claims about personal identity? The jewish carpenter made some claims i fear are rather presumptuous. I was raptured with the grail message until i read near the end his claims about his personal identity.

The likes of guru maharaji and olumba olumba obu make outrageous claims about their personal identities. That never impresses me.

Hi Deep Sight. Thanks for your comments. I am glad that you derived some spiritual benefit  from the Grail Message. I address the issues you raised as follows:

What is important is that one lives according to the laws of God. Whether or not one becomes a cross bearer  in the earthly sense is irrelevant. Spiritually, anyone who lives according o the laws of God is a crossbearer and such  a one bears the cross of Truth in his finer material bodies as well as on the spiritual body. Whether or not one physically wears this cross on earth is not important for spiritual development. Thus it is total obedience to the laws of God that makes one a cross bearer and not being a member of any movement, religion or sect. Thus there are many who wear the cross on earth but are not crossbearers and there are those who do not wear the cross on earth but are crossbearers. Thus just live your life in the sense of the Grail Message and you will here or hereafter have the personal experience that will confirm to you the identity of the author of the Grail Message.

You should never accept something which you have not personally recognised as Truth even if that thing is the Truth. Thus you should not accept the identity of the author of the Grail Message just because you read about it. Just live according to the Grail Message and a time will come when you will personally exprience who Abd-ru-Shin is. Many have read the Grail Message without knowing the identity of its author. Some recognize who he is even without physically reading the book. Some recognise it in the first page while others have to read and re-read the Grail Message for years before recognition dawns. Thus, each one draws from the Grail  Message as much as his spirit is capable of absorbing. Many who have read the Grail Message will go empty handed because they do not have the mobility of the Spirit required to experience higher recognitions. I knew who Abd-ru-Shin is even before I read the Grail Message and I hold to that conviction. It will be better for people to study the Grail Message and do not dissipate their energy trying to intellectually find out who Abd-ru-Shin is. Any person  who needs it  for his spiritual development will get it through experiencing it .


Yes people can make claims but their works  will show with clinical precision whether or not their claims are valid or not. Stay blessed.

Deep Sight:

@ just cool, m nwankwo;

I have read the message a number of times. I must say it is easily the clearest and most incisive work of spiritual truth in history.

I derived strong insights from it.

I was in fact going to become a cross bearer, but one thing has held me back: the authour's claim about his personal identity. You know what i'm talking about. I neednt state it here as it may confuse other seekers. Can you clarify why anybody should believe stupendous claims about personal identity? The jewish carpenter made some claims i fear are rather presumptuous. I was raptured with the grail message until i read near the end his claims about his personal identity.

The likes of guru maharaji and olumba olumba obu make outrageous claims about their personal identities. That never impresses me.

I would like to make some comments regarding this discussion about the Grail Message and Abd-ru-shin.
First of all, the Grail Message speaks for itself. It is available in published form and no one individual can presume to speak for it. This is true about any published work. People can come along and spin fantastic tales about an author and what he/she has said, but it is easy in today’s age for any individual to go directly to the source and find out for himself. Then, and only then, would it be appropriate to quote from that source and give an opinion.
Secondly, the observation that cross bearers are arrogant can be quite accurate. Especially in this case because cross bearers do indeed have access to much knowledge which others cannot have. This, however, should only serve to make them humble in the recognition that their knowledge compared to all of the knowledge contained in the Message is still very small and can reflect only their personal growth up to this point in time. Arrogance is always a sign of stupidity and if cross bearers are arrogant, then shame on them.
Furthermore, crimes are committed by human beings all of the time. To make a connection of their crime to their particular religious affiliation is not worthy of discussion. Otherwise, pity on Jesus or the Pope if that was a reasonable thing to do!
Also, calling something a sect is very problematic. There is really no generally accepted definition of what the word sect means. Even the study of the root of the word itself is something over which no agreement exists. I always thought the word had a Latin root and referred to something sectioned off of a whole. A splinter group or some such thing. In this case, the Grail Message could not qualify to be called a sect. It is not a split off of something else. If there are similarities in its teachings to other religions then this is only because other religions often came into existence as the direct result of a revelation from higher regions. The closer these regions are to the divine source, the more will there be such similarities. The Grail Message is unique, however, in that it exists in written form directly from the bringer of the Message. All other messages are mere reflections of memories and third hand reports, no matter how insistent Christians are for example, that the Bible is the direct word of God. We simply know better today.
Finally, Jesus made the following demand and gave a promise at the same time. He said: ‘Seek and you will find’. The seeking is His demand; the ability to find is His promise. But it is each individual who has to do the seeking for himself. No one can do it for him. Today we have the problem of endless amounts of information being out there. Just to study the titles of books that are published the world over on a daily basis would consume an individual’s total available time. That is where the promise coming directly from the divine comes to play, ‘and you will find’. If you seek with an open, inquisitive spirit, you will experience the miracle of that promise coming true. To help in a little way I will give some links that can lead any reader to the Truth, but each individual has to walk the path him/her self.
www.abdrushin.us
www.gralswerk.org
www.editionbernhardt.com/abdrushin-in-the-light-of-truth

hello justcool and Nwanwko, i really must commend what you guys are doing here, I am Steve and i must confess i was born into a christian home and i have been going to church all my life and i really can not say this is one vital message i have received but thank God i am old enough to take my own decision now as regards were i worship. i am guy who loves adventure. i don't know if i am going about the saying the bible wrongly by attending different church just to find out the truth but i think that is what a seeker should be doing? right? seeking the truth. i have been to churches and all i see is how pastors fill the hearts of its members with hate by making them believe someone either a family member or a close friend is responsible for their misfortune thereby giving them prayer points and calling on the on the holy ghost fire to kill there enemy, what for? because of earthly possession you want to kill someone who has nothing to do with you success in life, how does that marry the part of the lords prayer that talks about forgiveness? funny enough nothing like is repentance is preached these days, its all about earthly gain. I have read some part of the book IN THE LIGHT OF TRUTH THE GRAIL MESSAGE and i must say i now have a very different orientation about life and i am always very happy, i feel this inner satisfaction even when i am broke. I have learn love everyone and forgive without being asked and i have learned never to b greedy and most of all i am no longer a slave to material things and i really than God for that. now i know how to pray and get instant answers to my prayers unlike then and i now know how to worship God plus i now maintain simplicity in almost everything i do. But i have some few questions. can you please explain fornication to me and i will like to know if cross bearers ends their prayers with the phrase IN JESUS NAME and do you use bible regularly in your public lectures. please get back to me ASAP



thank

@ steve, we dont make use of the bible. We draw from the understanding of the grail message. Fornication, based on my personal understanding, you can commit a sin even in your thoughts even if it didnt materialise. And thats why the message makes it a point of observation by saying we should keep the hearth of our thoughts pure, by so doing we will bring peace and be happy.

Are you the same steve from benin?

@steve26

Thanks for your questions. My advice to you is to continue reading the Grail Mesage. Since you have already started, make sure that you read the whole book, in the book you will find the answers to all your questions.

About fornication. It is wrong for individuals who are not married to have sexual intercourse. But you don't achieve marriage by wedding or performing traditional wedding; real marriage is love and harmony between a man and a woman. Thus if one weds a woman when is no genuine love between him and the woman, such is not real marriage before the laws of God. Sexual union in such a marriage is a sin before God and thus adultery or fornication.

The prerequisite for sexual intimacy that is pleasing to God is pure love and spiritual harmony between two souls(man and woman) involved. Where there is no love and harmony between a couple, such a couple should not have sexual union. Sexual intimacy between such a couple is a sin, even if they have wedded or performed the earthly rites of marriage.

Thus the laws of God is not a respecter of earthly rites. You cannot change the laws of God by going to the alter with a woman and being wedded by a priest. As long as there is no love and harmony between the a couple, the couple is not married before the laws of God, even if it was the pope that wedded them.

Thus one must make sure the person he or she wants to marry carry the necessary qualities(characters) that compliments with his or hers. Only when the the parties characters complement each other can harmony arise between them. Thus you must find one whom God has already joined together with you. Two people born with complementary characters are in a way already joined together, such couple carry the necessary soil for marriage. But one is not limited only to a particular person, there are so many people with characters that complement yours. You only need to look carefully. One must also allow genuine love of the soul to arise in his/ her soul for the other party before contemplating wedding.

Also, it is very important to keep the heart of thoughts pure, like Ematan2000 mentioned. One can also commit adultery(fornication) in his/thoughts. Thus one who is lusting sexually after a woman is already committing adultery(fornication) even if he didn't indulge in physical intimacy with the woman.

So strive to keep the heart of your thoughts pure, this is the surest protection from fornication and adultery.


About the bible. Crossbearers do not read the bible during public lectures. During pubic lectures, they explain the principles of the Grail Message.

Cross bearers do not end their prayers with "In the name of Jesus." Consider the prayer that the son of God Jesus taught mankind (the Lords prayer), did He end the prayer with "in Jesus Name"?

Thanks and remain blessed

Hello all, crossbearers and non cross bearers. I have learnt from experience over a long time not to argue over issues concerning the grail message. Even the message warns about such arguements. True seekers do not have to be convinced about the truth.

I am a cross bearer. Due to certain experiences i had with other crossbearers and other issues i stopped attending hours of worship and in the process kind of derailed and lost touch with the message. But i have never for once in my 3yrs of absence debunked the grail message as false. What i realized is that crossbearers are not perfect just like every other christian they have weaknesses and faults.

My question goes to cross bearers and adherents of the Grail message. I have been aware for awhile now that there are 2 factions of the grail movement in Nigeria and maybe worldwide. But i never really bothered asking about the details of seperation cos i felt it didnt matter to me. I recently decided to retrace my steps and start attending the grail service again and jumpstart my spiritual life by living according to the grail message.
But this complication and confusion has led me to rethink my decision. i have decided to be an adherent of the grail message, go to church but not attend the hours of worship anymore. At least until all of these confusion is sorted out. Cross bearers here would understand what i mean by the factions

I would be grateful if more light is shed on this issue of factions

@ephisi

The correct way is always to follow your intuitive perception. The Grail Message maintains that God alone is Holy, and all forms of deifying some individuals and some movements is wrong. Humans on earth are not perfect, no-matter what movement, church, or organisation, they belong to.

The correct thing is to live the Grail Message, experience it and adjust your actions, words, and thoughts to the Grail Message. Be filled with the longing to do the right thing and exert all your energy in doing the things that you have already recognised as the right thing. This is all you need to do. Once you achieve this, everything that you need will be added on to you.

The Lord had already answered your question approximately 2000 years ago when He said, "Seek the Kingdom of God above all else, and live righteously, and he will give you everything you need."

I guaranty you that the love of God is ever watchfull. Seek to do his will in all things and live according to His will; and if you truly achieve this, then you will be shown a way out of your confusion. You will be shown which faction is correct. The same Love of God that led you to the Grail Message will also lead you to the right movement, if you must belong to a movement.

But don't start by seeking perfection in any movement, organisation or anybody, this is the wrong way to precede; and this will inevitably lead you to disappointments. You have been given all that you need-- The Grail Message. Adjust your life according to it, and all else will be given to you. Humans will fail you but the Grail Message will never fail you. Just concentrate on adjusting your whole being to the Grail Message, and you will be helped out of your confusion.

I hope this helps, and I wish you strength. Remain blessed.

@ephisi

In addition to what I wrote above. Consider these facts:

1) Being a crossbearer does not make you automatically a member of any movement.

2) Cult, organisations, movements, churches and etc are only human endeavours to replicate on earth what takes place above. Everything human can fail or be wrong. It will only be right when it is adjusted to the will of God.

3) Anybody who lives in accord with the Will of God will receive the benefits of his righteous living, irrespective of his religion, race, gender, movement, and location on earth.

4) Only living in accord with the Will of God guarantees salvation. Participation or membership to any movement, cult, religion, church, and etc does not guaranty salvation.

Read the lecture "Cult" in the first volume of the Grail Message. There is so much one can deduce from that lecture, if one reads with an alert spirit.

Thanks again and remain blessed.

Thanks justcool. I really missed listening and discussing with other crossbearers. I used to have many crossbearers around me. I used to learn a lot from those discussions, as it helped me in appreciating the message on a higher level and in relation to real life situations. As it stands i will no longer have such benefits, as i moved to a new state. Only with maybe other adherents and crossbearer friends i meet as i live my life.

Thanks for ur advice once again.