2013 SALAT LECTURE

Peace be unto you,O ye who believe.
Who is being celebrated today, Isaac or Ishmael?

Though history has been distorted about the fact of the issue on ground,this is not an excuse for muslim leaders to ignore the stand of the Quran.
For example,which son did God promise Abraham in his old age?The Quran says Ishaq(Isaac) in Surah 11:69-73; 15:51-53 The Islamic world believes it was Ishmael.Both can't be right.
Which son did God ask Abraham to sacrifice to Him?The answer is:the son that was promised.Who was this that God promised?Read Surah
37:101-108
The righteous son that was asked from God and who was given and who was demanded by God as a sacrifice is not mentioned by name.But the story is repeated in Surah 11 where the actual name was mentioned.Read Surah 11:69-72
In Surah 37:101-109 the Quran says it was `the righteous son' that Abraham asked for that God promised He would give,and God later demanded that the same son be sacrificed to Him.But for some strange reasons,many Arabs.....

...many Arabs have been made to believe that the son promised to Abraham,which God later asked him to sacrifice must be Ishmael to which they claim is their progenitor.They do not care whether or not the Qur'an says so.
At this point it is pertinent for every muslim brother and sister to answer this question: Who is the promised child who was to be sacrificed: Ishmael or Isaac?

thanks for a (not so) well tot out write up its pertinent to note dt u used only two chapters to support ur claim suratul sawfat and suratul hud. scholars say wen ever u want to refute pple over wrong claims look closely @ d evidence dy bring, u will definately find in it a statement dia refutting them.
In surah 37 dt u quoted, am rather amazed why u chose to stop where u did, when a further reading could have cleared all ur doubts, mere reading it up to vs 112 as clearly indicated that d event u reffered to in suratul hud(11) occured after d sacrifice of isma'el, and has a result of his forbearance and submissiveness both of father and son, he was 'promised' anoda son by Allah (swt). i challenge every sincere reader to go and further read ds chapter as d best is not to be spoon fed, so as nt to be fed junks like our broda as attempted to do.

Who and what is to celebrated?
1. JESUS CHRIST is WHO should be celebrated.
2. The salvation of your soul is WHAT you should celebrate; and the sacrifice of Christ for your sins.
"Neither is there salvation in any other:for there is none other name under heaven given among men,whereby we must be saved."Acts 4:12
"..The word is nigh thee,even in thy mouth,and in thy heart:that is,the word of faith,which we preach;
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness;and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
For the scripture saith,Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed."Romans 10:8-11
Jesus is saying unto you today,"..I am the way,the truth,and the life:no man cometh unto the Father,but by me." John 14:6 "..I am the light of the world:he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness,but shall have the light of life."John 8:12
Read John 8:24.

ALVA 001: thanks for a (not so) well tot out write up its pertinent to note dt u used only two chapters to support ur claim suratul sawfat and suratul hud. scholars say wen ever u want to refute pple over wrong claims look closely @ d evidence dy bring, u will definately find in it a statement dia refutting them.
In surah 37 dt u quoted, am rather amazed why u chose to stop where u did, when a further reading could have cleared all ur doubts, mere reading it up to vs 112 as clearly indicated that d event u reffered to in suratul hud(11) occured after d sacrifice of isma'el, and has a result of his forbearance and submissiveness both of father and son, he was 'promised' anoda son by Allah (swt). i challenge every sincere reader to go and further read ds chapter as d best is not to be spoon fed, so as nt to be fed junks like our broda as attempted to do.

Thank you sir and God bless you.
I did not in anyway refute any passage of the Qur'an.
Infact I will quote Surah 37:112 below

Here is Surah 37:112 "And We gave him the glad tidings of Ishaque,a Prophet the Communicator of unseen,one of the deserving men of our proximity."

Humbly I ask you, learned one,to give me references to prove me wrong,if was not the one intended to be sacrificed.I am hungry to learn.

However, thanks be to God, the ram replaced the lad!

ALVA 001: thanks for a (not so) well tot out write up its pertinent to note dt u used only two chapters to support ur claim suratul sawfat and suratul hud. scholars say wen ever u want to refute pple over wrong claims look closely @ d evidence dy bring, u will definately find in it a statement dia refutting them.
In surah 37 dt u quoted, am rather amazed why u chose to stop where u did, when a further reading could have cleared all ur doubts, mere reading it up to vs 112 as clearly indicated that d event u reffered to in suratul hud(11) occured after d sacrifice of isma'el, and has a result of his forbearance and submissiveness both offather and son, he was'promised'anoda son by Allah(swt).i challenge every sincere reader to go and furtherread ds chapter as d best is not to be spoon fed, so as nt to be fed junks likeour broda as attempted to do.

I am sorry to correct you sir,I guess you forgot that Ismael was not expected to be sacrificed,and if he was sacrificed, salat is a misnomer.

DoctorStephen: Who and what is to celebrated?
1. JESUS CHRIST is WHO should be celebrated.
2. The salvation of your soul is WHAT you should celebrate; and the sacrifice of Christ for your sins.
"Neither is there salvation in any other:for there is none other name under heaven given among men,whereby we must be saved."Acts 4:12
"..The word is nigh thee,even in thy mouth,and in thy heart:that is,the word of faith,which we preach;
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness;and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
For the scripture saith,Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed."Romans 10:8-11
Jesus is saying unto you today,"..I am the way,the truth,and the life:no man cometh unto the Father,but by me." John 14:6 "..I am the light of the world:he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness,but shall have the light of life."John 8:12
Read John 8:24.

Jesus didn't die for anybody sins, all these stories that he died on a cross or stake was all LIES.

Ishmael (Ismail) was the Son to be Sacrificed

Let us look at what Allah Almighty Said:

" 'O my Lord! grant me a righteous (son)!' So We gave him the good news of a boy ready to suffer and forbear. Then when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, He said: 'O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: Now see what is thy view!' (The son) said: 'O my father! Do as thou art commanded: Thou wilt find me, if Allah so wills one practising patience and constancy!' (Quran 37:100-102)"

Here we see Abraham peace be upon him prayed to Allah Almighty to grant him a righteous son. This was in the fertile land of Syria and Palestine. The boy thus born was, according to Muslim tradition, (which however is not unanimous to this point), the first-born son of Abraham, Ismail or Ishmael. The name itself is from the root Samia, to hear, because Allah had heard Abraham's prayer (Noble Verse 37:100). Abraham's age when Ismail was born was 86.

Let us use some logic here: As I mentioned, the Bible claims that Abraham offered his son Isaac for sacrifice, and the Noble Quran claims that he offered Ishmael, who was 13 years older than Isaac for sacrifice. So, we have the Bible's word against the Noble Quran's.

As intelligent people with good common sense, we can tell what is true and what is false from the evidence provided. As mentioned above, if Ishmael means "to hear", then Abraham had named him as such, because Allah Almighty heard his prayer and granted him a son, his first- born son Ishmael.

Abraham was so happy to have his first- born son Ishmael at a very old age, that he named him a name that symbolizes his long patience and his gratefulness to GOD Almighty that he finally Heard Abraham and granted him his wish that he'd always wanted. Remember that Abraham was 86 when Ishmael was born. So Ishmael was NOT as the corrupted Bible claims, a not considered biological son to Abraham. Abraham adored Ishmael and loved him so dearly. The proof to this is as I said, Ishmael's name.

As I mentioned above, Ishmael was 13 years older than Isaac, and Abraham loved GOD Almighty very much that he wanted to sacrifice his own son for Him. If Ishmael's name represents Abraham's gratefulness to GOD Almighty after a desperate long wait to have a son, then it makes perfect sense that Abraham wanted to sacrifice Ishmael to GOD Almighty by giving Him the most precious thing he ever had.

"So when they had both [Abraham and Ishmael] submitted their wills (to Allah), and he had laid him prostrated on his forehead (for sacrifice), We called out to him, 'O Abraham! Thou hast already fulfilled the vision! - thus indeed do We reward those who do right. For this was obviously a trial - and We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice: And We left (this blessing) for him among generations (to come) in later times: 'peace and salutation to Abraham!' Thus indeed do We reward those who do right. (Quran, 37:103-110)"

Note (in Noble Verse 37:103) that the sacrifice was demanded of both Abraham and Ismail. It was a trial of the will of the father and the son. By way of trial the father had the command conveyed to him in a vision. He consulted the son. The son readily consented, and offered to stand true to his promise if his self- sacrifice was really required. The whole things is symbolical. Allah does not require the flesh and blood of animals (Noble Verse 22:37), much less of human beings. But he does require the giving of our whole being to Allah, the symbol of which is that we should give up something very dear to us, if duty requires that sacrifice.

"For he [Abraham] was one of our believing Servants. And we gave him the good news [a second-born son to come] of Isaac - a Prophet - One of the Righteous. (Quran, 37:111-112)"

Isaac was Abraham's second son, born of Sarah, when Abraham was 100 years of age. He was also blessed and became the ancestor of the Jewish people.

Conclusion

It is quite clear that Ishmael was the son to be sacrificed and not Isaac, peace be upon both of them. We also saw how corrupt the Bible is. The Bible is not reliable. It was badly tampered with by man's alterations and narrations, that we no longer can tell which parts of it are the True Living Words of GOD Almighty, and which aren't.

Ishmael was 13 years older than Isaac, and Abraham loved GOD Almighty very much that he wanted to sacrifice his own son for Him. If Ishmael's name represents Abraham's gratefulness to GOD Almighty after a desperate long wait to have a son, then it makes perfect sense that Abraham wanted to sacrifice Ishmael to GOD Almighty by giving Him the most precious thing he ever had.

Beloved brother Tintinz,be not overcomed by rage.The aim of this thread is not to antagonise any religion,but it seems like you missed the vital point in this discuss.

It is an age long practise for muslims to claim that the Bible is adulterated.I am sorry to inform you that it never has.
Concerning who was to be sacrificed,you can ask the Jews or buy the Torah,and read it for yourself.

But wait, the Quran NEVER SAID that
1. Mohammed is the Saviour of anybody.
2. A muslim can be 100% sure of his own salvation
3. It was never changed.
4. A muslim should not study the Bible.
5. Any original Bible was lost and that the Quran is a substitute for this
6. It has no error.

The Jews who crucified Christ,knew they did.
The Qur'an said in Surah 19 vs 33,of Jesus blessing God for his Birth,Death, and Resurrection.

Dear Tintinz,
The Quran itself teaches the death of Jesus Christ.
Of Yahyah(John),it was written,"And peace is on him the day when he was born and the day he will die,and the day when he will be raised alive."Surah19:15 Every muslim knows that truly John was beheaded by Herod.

Of Jesus Christ,it was written,"And the same peace on me the day I was born and day I die and the day I am raised alive."Surah19:33
I wonder why when death of Jesus is spoken about,he is excused of dying.
Muslims believe that Jesus Christ is God's Prophet. If He is,then His words must come to pass,else,He is not.Thanks to God, Christ is the TRUTH to whoever cares to listen.

The proof that someone is a false prophet is in,Deuteronomy 18:22, "When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD,if the thing follow not,nor come to pass,that is the which the LORD hath not spoken.."
Jesus Christ is the truth, His word came to pass. Halleluyah! He died for your sins and my sins,and was raised to life,and IS COMING AGAIN.
Amen

tintingz: Jesus didn't die for anybody sins, all these stories that he died on a cross or stake was all LIES.

That Jesus died on the cross is the TRUTH. Roman history,Jewish writings and history,and lives of sinners changed to saints by faith in His death proves it that Jesus died.
The veil is fallen from your face in Jesus name,Amen.

DoctorStephen: Beloved brother Tintinz,be not overcomed by rage.The aim of this thread is not to antagonise any religion,but it seems like you missed the vital point in this discuss.
It is an age long practise for muslims to claim that the Bible is adulterated.I am sorry to inform you that it never has.
Concerning who was to be sacrificed,you can ask the Jews or buy the Torah,and read it for yourself.

Brother, we should know that most historical accounts in the bible are false the jews knows that, Jeremiah as said it

"How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a LIE. (RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8 )"

Jeremiah 26:4 says that God still commanded them to follow the Law. How could this be if the Law has been corrupted?

The jew have long corrupted the scriptures how then the account of Abraham sacrificing his son
true, the name "Ishma-el" means "God hear" yes God(El) heard Abraham(as) prayers seeking for a child.

But wait, the Quran NEVER SAID that
1. Mohammed is the Saviour of anybody.

The savior which Mohammed(sa) was sent to mankind was not the one christians said about Jesus that was killed on a cross for mankind sin(false story)

Allah said in the Quran

"O mankind! Verily, there has come to you the Messenger (Muhammad) with the truth from your Rabb (Sustainer, Lord). So believe in him, it is better for you. But if you disbelieve, then certainly to Allah belongs all that is in the heavens and the earth. And Allah is Ever All- Knowing, All-Wise." (Quran: 4:170)

2. A muslim can be 100% sure of his own salvation

On that Day the Dominion will be that of Allah: He will judge between them: so those who believe and work righteous deeds will be in Gardens of Delight. (Quran 22:56)

That is the salvation in Islam.

3. It was never changed.

Don't get

4. A muslim should not study the Bible.

Quran said muslims should believe in all scriptures(Torah, psalm, gospel) the Quran didn't mention "bible" but muslims are to seek for knowledge since the bible contain the scriptures which was corrupted.

5. Any original Bible was lost and that the Quran is a substitute for this
6. It has no error.

And [mention, O Muhammad], when Allah took a covenant from those who were given the Scripture, [saying], "You must make it clear to the people and not conceal it." But they threw it away behind their backs and exchanged it for a small price. And wretched is that which they purchased.[Quran 3:187]

The Jews who crucified Christ,knew they did.
The Qur'an said in Surah 19 vs 33,of Jesus blessing God for his Birth,Death, and Resurrection.

(Quran 19:33) "So peace is upon me [Jesus] the day I was born, the day that I die , and the day that I shall be raised up to life."

Note: Die

This verse was also said to John the baptist(as)

"So peace on him [Yahya, or John the Baptist] the day he was born, the day that he dies , and the day that he will be raised up to life! (Quran, 19:15)"

Note: Dies was used for John

This verses are alike does that mean John died and resurrected? NO! The "die" for Jesus stands for future when he returns and he will die like every other human and raised up on the judgment day.

DoctorStephen: Dear Tintinz,
The Quran itself teaches the death of Jesus Christ.
Of Yahyah(John),it was written,"And peace is on him the day when he was born and the day he will die,and the day when he will be raised alive."Surah19:15 Every muslim knows that truly John was beheaded by Herod.

Of Jesus Christ,it was written,"And the same peace on me the day I was born and day I die and the day I am raised alive."Surah19:33
I wonder why when death of Jesus is spoken about,he is excused of dying.
Muslims believe that Jesus Christ is God's Prophet. If He is,then His words must come to pass,else,He is not.Thanks to God, Christ is the TRUTH to whoever cares to listen.

The proof that someone is a false prophet is in,Deuteronomy 18:22, "When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD,if the thing follow not,nor come to pass,that is the which the LORD hath not spoken.."
Jesus Christ is the truth, His word came to pass. Halleluyah! He died for your sins and my sins,and was raised to life,and IS COMING AGAIN.
Amen

I don't have to repeat myself again read how I explain Jesus and John the baptist(as).

DoctorStephen:
That Jesus died on the cross is the TRUTH. Roman history,Jewish writings and history,and lives of sinners changed to saints by faith in His death proves it that Jesus died.
The veil is fallen from your face in Jesus name,Amen.

let me ask you a question was Jesus(as) killed on a cross, stake or tree? Since you talked about Roman history.

whats wrong with this doctor who switched to airing falsehood against the Quran about Jesus [as], the son of Mary after he has been shown that Ishmael [as] is the son of the sacrifice and its not Isaac [as]? from the natures of their mothers on the pages of the bible, it is obvious that the child that can be taken advantage of is the son of the weaker mother, the more patient son who will suffer in silence. as you can read in the Quran, the truth is known by God Who is Alive, Always, now that those who were involved have died off. Abraham [as] knows which son, and the only son is always the first child. and Abraham was not a jew or christian, by religion or ethnicity. the fact that muslims observe this rights of sacrificial event and neither the jews nor the christians observe it is a telling point for those who can reason because the jews celebrate less important but mundane event like the macabee defeat of the syrian while the christians celebrate important event at wrong [christmas] time and celebrate what should be hated [if event was true; death].

why expect creation to save when it is the Creator Who can save anyone He will by Mercy and Forgiveness based on obedience to Him, even wiping out all sinfulness worthy of punishment of the guilty? it is Only He Who can punish by His Just Justice. and the death of Jesus [as] will happen when he returns.


about Muhammad [SA];
Quran 9/128; There has certainly come to you a Messenger from among yourselves. Grievous to him is what you suffer; [he is] concerned over you and to the believers is kind and merciful.

O you who believe! Shall I lead you to a bargain that will save you from a grievous Chastisement? That you believe in Allâh and His Messenger and that you strive (your utmost) in the Cause of Allâh, with your wealth and your persons: that will be best for you, if you but knew! He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to the Gardens of Eternity: that is indeed the supreme Triumph. (61:10-12)


“Say: ‘If you do love Allâh follow me: Allâh will love you and forgive you your sins for Allâh is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful.’” (3:31)

“O you who believe! Obey Allâh, and obey the Messenger (Muhammad) and render not vain your deeds.” (47:33)


About Quran and Islam;

“Then do you remember Me, I will remember you. Be grateful to Me and reject not faith.” (2:152)

“Verily, I am Allâh: There is no god but I: so serve Me (only), and establish regular prayer for My remembrance.” (20:14)

“Recite what is sent of the Book by inspiration to you, and establish regular Prayer: for Prayer restrains from shameful and evil deeds; and remembrance of Allâh is the greatest (thing in life) without doubt. And Allâh knows the (deeds) that you do.” (29:45)

“By no means (should it be so)! For it (Qur’ân) is indeed a Message of remembrance. Therefore, let who so will, keep it in remembrance. It is in Books held (greatly) in honor, exalted (in dignity), kept pure and holy.” (80:11-14)

“O you who believe! Let not your riches or your children divert you from the remembrance of Allâh. If any act thus, surely they are the losers.” (63:9)

“For Muslim men and women, for believing men and women for devout men and women for true men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in charity, for men and women who fast, for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in Allâh’s remembrance for them: has Allâh prepared forgiveness and great reward.” (33:35)


“Verily this is My Way leading straight: follow it, follow not (other) paths. They will scatter you about from His (great) path. Thus does He command you so that you may be righteous.” (6:153)

“Then, We put you on the (right) Way of Religion, so follow you that (Way), and follow not the desires of those who know not. They will be of no use to you in the sight of Allâh. It is only wrong doers (that stand as) protectors, one to another. But Allâh is the Protector of the Righteous. These are clear evidences to men, and a Guidance and Mercy to those of assured Faith.” (45:18-20)

“Those who listen to the Word, and follow the best of it, those are the ones who Allâh has guided, and those are the ones endued with understanding.” (39:18)

“O you who believe! Enter into Islâm wholeheartedly; and follow not the footsteps of Satan, for he is to you an avowed enemy.” (2:208)

“O you who believe! Fear Allâh as He should be feared, and die not except in a state of Islâm...that you may be guided.” (3:102-103)

tintingz: let me ask you a question was Jesus(as) killed on a cross, stake or tree? Since you talked about Roman history.

John 19:17 "And he(Jesus Christ) bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull,which is called in Hebrew Golgotha."
Jesus died on the cross.

Bro Tintinz,are you saying that `I die' should have read `I dies',just like `he dies'?
Both refer to the then future,since it is claimed to be what the two said while alive.
Jesus died of a truth,for our sins, according to the scriptures.

Bro Tintinz,are you saying that `I die' should have read `I dies',just like `he dies'?
Rules of grammar should be obeyed,you know?

Both refer to the then future,since it is claimed to be what the two said while alive.
Jesus died of a truth,for our sins, according to the scriptures.

RoyPCain:
....

Genesis 21:12,13 "And God said unto Abraham,Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad(Ishmael),and because of thy bondwoman;in all that Sarah hath said unto thee,hearken unto her voice;for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation..."
Genesis 22:2 "And he (God) said,Take now thy son,thine only son Isaac,whom thou lovest,and get thee into the land of Moriah;and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of." In vs 12,13,Abraham was told to replace Isaac with a ram.
The Jews do not celebrate the slaughtering of rams because neither Abraham,nor Isaac,nor Jacob;Moses also did not,or the law demand it of them.

Isaac not Ishmael was wont to be sacrificed.