By the grace of God, and by the virtue of the position I occupy and my kind of job, I have come to see a lot of things as regards the removal of 'unwanted pregnancy'.

I went into study and critical reasoning and believe me, I found out that there is such thing as 'unwanted pregnancy'.

The Imo State government and the Clergy men recently had a brush over abortion law allegedly passed by the State government. But then, in an interview with the Imo State governor Owelle Rochas Okorocha, he explained thus;

"We are not passing this law to encourage young girls to prostitute and abort their babies, rather, our focus is on married women and eventually unfortunate young ladies that get raped".

Everyone somehow has a reason to every action they take and the decision they make.
In developed countries, for instance, where the government approves of abortion, who will be punished? The doctor who can be sued for denying a young lady her right? Or the government who have a very strong reason for approving the act? Or the young 'unfortunate' lady who one day finds out she has an 'unwanted pregnancy'?

Let's judge this both from a strict and a wide sense...

Thanks for commenting

All of The above

Categorically I cannot tell u its d doctors and my senior pastors would tell u its d government but be rest assured that the answer would be made known 2 u by the senior superiors in the eluelu ministry

Gwekzy: All of The above

you did not say ur reasons. U cnt just conclude mate

I just wish they will see this post. If I get an answer to this, it will help me guide a lot of ppl

emmanwandud: Categorically I cannot tell u its d doctors and my senior pastors would tell u its d government but be rest assured that the answer would be made known 2 u by the senior superiors in the eluelu ministry

The lady of course. I think the government made the right decision because many are dying in the process aborting by some cruel methods, doctor are not to be blamed at all but the best the doctors can do is to explain the dangers of abortion and after that she stil agrees to abort then the doctors have no option than to do it

In the civilized country where abortion is legalize, the government also controls its operation. The few of the reason for it are
-Molestation
-Child pregnancy
-Health condition (situation where by the woman can die during labour)

The person must present Doctor and police report that confirm any of the above before abortion can be done in some specified hospital.

So the government will be blame where it is legalize without control

The woman if she was not rape. You enjoyed it, later you are going for abortion

Doctor, if he cant stand openly and claim performing the abortion without being arrested

Gwekzy: All of The above

Gbam!

Even the innocent in the land will suffer for the innocent blood of unborn babies being shed in our country.

PasD: By the grace of God, and by the virtue of the position I occupy and my kind of job, I have come to see a lot of things as regards the removal of 'unwanted pregnancy'.

I went into study and critical reasoning and believe me, I found out that there is such thing as 'unwanted pregnancy'.

The Imo State government and the Clergy men recently had a brush over abortion law allegedly passed by the State government. But then, in an interview with the Imo State governor Owelle Rochas Okorocha, he explained thus;

"We are not passing this law to encourage young girls to prostitute and abort their babies, rather, our focus is on married women and eventually unfortunate young ladies that get raped".

Everyone somehow has a reason to every action they take and the decision they make.
In developed countries, for instance, where the government approves of abortion, who will be punished? The doctor who can be sued for denying a young lady her right? Or the government who have a very strong reason for approving the act? Or the young 'unfortunate' lady who one day finds out she has an 'unwanted pregnancy'?

Let's judge this both from a strict and a wide sense...

Thanks for commenting

In developed countries, doctors are not required to conduct abortion. Doctors specialize and a woman would be foolish to go to doctors that do not specialize in pregant women's issues (OB/GYN) to have an abortion. Even with that, there are clinics that specialize in abortion. I do not imagine anybody suing successfully against a doctor for refusing to conduct an abortion. The closest I know are pharmacists being sued for refusing to dispense prescribed abortion medication on the basis of conscience.

italo:

Gbam!

Even the innocent in the land will suffer for the innocent blood of unborn babies being shed in our country.

Yes, as 'innocents' in today's Nigeria are living at the highest standards all thanks to the gigawatts of spiritual power we produce daily

Black man ehhh. Let me just leave it at that

When u mean 'innocent' do u include you and I?

italo:

Gbam!

Even the innocent in the land will suffer for the innocent blood of unborn babies being shed in our country.

wiegraf:

Yes, as 'innocents' in today's Nigeria are living at the highest standards all thanks to the gigawatts of spiritual power we produce daily

Black man ehhh. Let me just leave it at that

Sorry o. Oga white man.

PasD: When u mean 'innocent' do u include you and I?

Those innocent of committing abortion.

@italo

Here we have the an overview of the legal status of abortion circa 2009

[img]http://geocurrents.info/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/abortion_laws_world_map.gif[/img]

Here are newer interactive versions

Here's the HDI for 2010

[img]http://1.bp..com/-wKOfWllJHJ0/UDtAlAoYKFI/AAAAAAAABGM/k7ALHr6GM7Q/s1600/human_development_index_around_the_world.jpg[/img]

Adjusted HDI for 2012



Guess the labeling?

So, what's yahweh waiting for? Shouldn't he spilling the blood of innocents? What am I missing, as the countries that legalize abortion seem to be doing rather well. Actually it seems like, on average, they are doing much better than those that don't.


Randomnesses;

italo:

Sorry o. Oga white man.

Let me expantiate oh just to confirm you understand my position clearly oga lol. We are so foo.lish other species, like say chimps, in parks managed and patronized exclusively by black man are probably reasoning out similarly to you. They are likely wondering why is it Chimp-weh, who made them, his especially loved children, in his image, and this whole universe to serve as their playground, allowed such a vacuous group as the black man gain the upperhand on this rock.

They would dream up a lot of reasons, likely spiritual babble, eg they prayed to the wrong god, didn't pay enough tithes, have too much ghey s.ex, etc etc, wronged some god(s) another way or the other. However, the answer would be a simple, natural one. One they did not deduce because they were ignorant (not their fault) and/or, more importantly, foo.lishly looking in the wrong places (their fault). In fact, it would actually be a false dilemma as they were not 'colonized' by the black man, that's silly; it was the oyinbo. Black man just watched and prayed. Or did jazz.

The saying is a people usually get the government they deserve.

Also, where did I say I was oyinbo?

^^^

1. What does it mean to say a country is doing "better" than the other?

2. Do you have any evidence that people dont suffer for the spilling of innocent blood that goes on in their countries (both those that legalize it and those that dont)?

i can see some people have started using their outdated tactics to make us feel that refusal to do abortion and accept other things like gay marriage is the reason why we are 'underdeveloped'.

Economic development is brought about only by managing the resources you have properly and puting in place sound economic policies and also the will to pursue those policies. Abortion has little to do with it, fact!

If we are going to paint the parts of the world with highest growth rate in green and other parts with low growth rate in blue, Africa would be painted in deep green while the other parts of the world that do abortion would be painted in deep blue. What shall we say then, that not doing abortion and gay marriage causes low economic growth? Think about it yourself before to decend to self hate!

souldust: i can see some people have started using their outdated tactics to make us feel that refusal to do abortion and accept other things like gay marriage is the reason why we are 'underdeveloped'.

Economic development is brought about only by managing the resources you have properly and puting in place sound economic policies and also the will to pursue those policies. Abortion has little to do with it, fact!

If we are going to paint the parts of the world with highest growth rate in green and other parts with low growth rate in blue, Africa would be painted in deep green while the other parts of the world that do abortion would be painted in deep blue. What shall we say then, that not doing abortion and gay marriage causes low economic growth? Think about it yourself before to decend to self hate!

These ones have decided not to reason. All they want to do night and day is condemn the God who they say doesn't exist...

...for no one that reasons will link legalized abortion to "doing rather well."

Okorocha made d law
ndi imo agreed to the law and alllowed d law to take place in their life
doctor executed d law



everyone is to be blamed

You got it quite wrong mate. Okorocha made the law, ndi imo refused....the law is not valid as of now.

tobechi74: Okorocha made d law
ndi imo agreed to the law and alllowed d law to take place in their life
doctor executed d law



everyone is to be blamed

Ur majesty. U hav poured out ur heart and hate for 'developed' countries. But I gbadun ur open mindedeness shaa

souldust: i can see some people have started using their outdated tactics to make us feel that refusal to do abortion and accept other things like gay marriage is the reason why we are 'underdeveloped'.

Economic development is brought about only by managing the resources you have properly and puting in place sound economic policies and also the will to pursue those policies. Abortion has little to do with it, fact!

If we are going to paint the parts of the world with highest growth rate in green and other parts with low growth rate in blue, Africa would be painted in deep green while the other parts of the world that do abortion would be painted in deep blue. What shall we say then, that not doing abortion and gay marriage causes low economic growth? Think about it yourself before to decend to self hate!

italo: ^^^

1. What does it mean to say a country is doing "better" than the other?

I mean this

wiki:

The Human Development Index (HDI) is a composite statistic of life expectancy, education, and income indices used to rank countries into four tiers of human development. It was created by the Pakistani economist Mahbub ul Haq and the Indian economist Amartya Sen in 1990[1] and was published by the United Nations Development Programme.[2]

and all it entails.

But of course, it's subjective, so please tell me what you describe as 'better'?

italo:
2. Do you have any evidence that people dont suffer for the spilling of innocent blood that goes on in their countries (both those that legalize it and those that dont)?

I don't even know where to begin with this nonsense, no offense. Anyways, what exactly is innocent? And let's not forget the innocent blood that will be spilled by yahweh, not just your 'innocent' fetuses.

As for 'spilling blood', I can at least show you crime rates and conflicts

Conflict


Murder
[img]http://4.bp..com/-sdQGJ0Qgo78/To9y0nJ1kLI/AAAAAAAAALI/z_ZCxBjqAQw/s1600/Murder-rates-in-countries-across-the-world.gif[/img]

I have better numbers, but will have to come back with those. No time atm

PasD: Ur majesty. U hav poured out ur heart and hate for 'developed' countries. But I gbadun ur open mindedeness shaa

I dont see anything that suggests "hate for developed countries" in his post.

wiegraf:

I mean this



and all it entails.

But of course, it's subjective, so please tell me what you describe as 'better'?

The bold is sufficient for now. That makes your submission earlier that countries that legalized the killing of their youngest citizens "seem to be doing rather well" simply your personal opinion which doesnt necessarily mean anything to anyone else. Thanks.

There is no point discussing what I feel is better at this point.

wiegraf:
I don't even know where to begin with this nonsense, no offense. Anyways, what exactly is innocent? And let's not forget the innocent blood that will be spilled by yahweh, not just your 'innocent' fetuses.

As for 'spilling blood', I can at least show you crime rates and conflicts

Conflict


Murder
[img]http://4.bp..com/-sdQGJ0Qgo78/To9y0nJ1kLI/AAAAAAAAALI/z_ZCxBjqAQw/s1600/Murder-rates-in-countries-across-the-world.gif[/img]

I have better numbers, but will have to come back with those. No time atm

It's simple. You have no evidence that innocent people in a country dont suffer for the kiling of their youngest compatriots.

The US and South Africa have very little restriction for abortion. They both have two of the highest crime rates (including murder) in the world.

Even if you just want to condemn God, wait until you have something sensible to say.

Anyways, what exactly is innocent? And let's not forget the innocent blood that will be spilled by yahweh, not just your 'innocent' fetuses.

@wiegraf. D above was ur statement.

Pls clear me on this. If u dnt mind sire

italo:

I dont see anything that suggests "hate for developed countries" in his post.

aha! I suggest u read his post again. And this time around be more rational rather than sentimental pal. Or better still let him deny it!

PasD: aha! I suggest u read his post again. And this time around be more rational rather than sentimental pal. Or better still let him deny it!

I still dont see anything that suggests hate in that post.

Except we arent talking about "hate" - the English word.

Now I rest my case sir. (I dunno why he's silent shaa)

italo:

I still dont see anything that suggests hate in that post.

Except we arent talking about "hate" - the English word.

italo:

The bold is sufficient for now. That makes your submission earlier that countries that legalized the killing of their youngest citizens "seem to be doing rather well" simply your personal opinion which doesnt necessarily mean anything to anyone else. Thanks.

There is no point discussing what I feel is better at this point.

There is every reason, I hope you can genuinely not recognize that. I hope this isn't a case of cowardice despite your claims of moral superiority. Stand up for your god. You claim things will be worse if we legalize abortion, not me, yet you fail to tell us how, don't try to escape.

Don't forget, my thesis is a people get the government they deserve. Tell me what you, black man making the claim, prioritize when voting. Give me an inlkling as to how you would operate if, satan forbid, you were ever anywhere near a position of power. To prove my thesis I would have to know what your 'better' is, yes? Prove me wrong, don't chiken out.

italo:
It's simple. You have no evidence that innocent people in a country dont suffer for the kiling of their youngest compatriots.

The US and South Africa have very little restriction for abortion. They both have two of the highest crime rates (including murder) in the world.

Even if you just want to condemn God, wait until you have something sensible to say.

Let me clarify, again, YOU MADE THE CLAIM OF INNOCENTS DYING, NOT ME. YOU HAVE NOT, IN ANY WAY, BACKED UP THE CLAIM. YOU WANT ME TO DISPROVE SOMETHING YOU'VE NOT EVEN PROVEN YET??!! ACTUALLY, YOU'VE NOT EVEN EXPLAINED IT PROPERLY YET?!

This sounds familiar, no? Your typical nonsense..... I never proved I was right, but you can't prove me wrong therefore I am right.... I appreciate your general reticence, but I'm beginning to think it's because you're afraid the more you post, the more you'll get found out..

If US and SA is all you saw, while missing all those central africans, south american and asians, while blatantly ignoring western europe in particular, then well..... Not to mention you ignore the other indices; conflict zones and the HDI. So what is it? What is this suffering we, including our 'innocents', will endure? Is it just murder rates that's your concern?

And oga, why not toss out that 'my god is the one being persecuted' thingie? Granted, yahweh is one of the sillier concepts, but any god would do. Yahweh just happens to be the most popular around these parts. And, of course, his zombies go around mixing church and state just like you're doing right now, so you're going to get heat from those not deluded, what did you expect? We just concede?

PasD: Anyways, what exactly is innocent? And let's not forget the innocent blood that will be spilled by yahweh, not just your 'innocent' fetuses.

@wiegraf. D above was ur statement.

Pls clear me on this. If u dnt mind sire

Good ser, I want him to clarify what his post means. I'm obviously confused as to what he means

italo:
Even the innocent in the land will suffer for the innocent blood of unborn babies being shed in our country.

I've not even started on why an omnipotent would punish 'innocents'. Why he would do that when he omnipotently gave freewill, no one forced the omnipotent......not to mention he promises to punish offenders for eternity regardless, yet he feels the need to make the innocent suffer from here..

wiegraf:

There is every reason, I hope you can genuinely not recognize that. I hope this isn't a case of cowardice despite your claims of moral superiority.

I do not want to digress by discussing my idea of better. Period! It was you who said something about that. It was you who said it was subjective. So just save me your personal opinion which means nothing to many people.

Where did I claim "moral superiority?"

wiegraf:
Stand up for your god. You claim things will be worse if we legalize abortion, not me, yet you fail to tell us how, don't try to escape.

Where did I claim "things will be 'worse' if we legalize abortion?"

wiegraf:
Don't forget, my thesis is a people get the government they deserve. Tell me what you, black man making the claim, prioritize when voting. Give me an inlkling as to how you would operate if, satan forbid, you were ever anywhere near a position of power. To prove my thesis I would have to know what your 'better' is, yes? Prove me wrong, don't chiken out.

I dont see what this has to do with this thread.

wiegraf:
Let me clarify, again, YOU MADE THE CLAIM OF INNOCENTS DYING, NOT ME. YOU HAVE NOT, IN ANY WAY, BACKED UP THE CLAIM. YOU WANT ME TO DISPROVE SOMETHING YOU'VE NOT EVEN PROVEN YET??!! ACTUALLY, YOU'VE NOT EVEN EXPLAINED IT PROPERLY YET?!

When I mentioned innocents dying, I was referring to the innocents in the womb being killed.

Which do you want me to prove: that they are innocent or that they are being killed?

wiegraf:
This sounds familiar, no? Your typical nonsense..... I never proved I was right, but you can't prove me wrong therefore I am right.... I appreciate your general reticence, but I'm beginning to think it's because you're afraid the more you post, the more you'll get found out..

I was talking to religious people who were talking in a religious context. They dint need evidence to understand me. You then jumped in and challenged me so I wanted to know if you have evidence contrary to what I'm saying. But you dont. I am not interested in proving to you that people suffer for sins when you dont even know what sin is.

wiegraf:
If US and SA is all you saw, while missing all those central africans, south american and asians, while blatantly ignoring western europe in particular, then well..... Not to mention you ignore the other indices; conflict zones and the HDI. So what is it? What is this suffering we, including our 'innocents', will endure? Is it just murder rates that's your concern?

1. Many of your utopian countries including US and Europe are in economic decline while Africa is witnessing economic growth.

2. Abortion is not the only sin that brings suffering on a people.

3. That sin brings suffering doesnt necessarily mean that if Bill Gates commits abortion, he'll suffer so bad that he'll be financially poorer than a Lagos bus conductor today (also, consider that the conductor sins and suffers for it too). What I say is: 'Bill Gates will suffer for his sins.'

wiegraf:
And oga, why not toss out that 'my god is the one being persecuted' thingie? Granted, yahweh is one of the sillier concepts, but any god would do. Yahweh just happens to be the most popular around these parts. And, of course, his zombies go around mixing church and state just like you're doing right now, so you're going to get heat from those not deluded, what did you expect? We just concede?

*boring*

italo:

I do not want to digress by discussing my idea of better. Period! It was you who said something about that. It was you who said it was subjective. So just save me your personal opinion which means nothing to many people.

No, it was you. CLEARLY SO. You said innocents will suffer. I fail to see how innocents suffering translates to better conditions.

Explain and stop being a coward. Or let me guess, we should just accept innocents will suffer just because.

italo:
Where did I claim "moral superiority?"

Where you imply that people who perform abortions aren't innocent.

Does every.single.thing have to pointed out to you?

italo:
Where did I claim "things will be 'worse' if we legalize abortion?"

Again, you clown, you said INNOCENTS WILL SUFFER, not me.

Do you need a dictionary or simple comprehension skills?

italo:
I dont see what this has to do with this thread.

Considering your myopia, that's understandable. Don't worry, you'll see

italo:
When I mentioned innocents dying, I was referring to the innocents in the womb being killed.


Which do you want me to prove: that they are innocent or that they are being killed?

Ok, scratch innocents dying. Simple. Innocents suffering. Again, I await. Try not to deflect it.

italo:
I was talking to religious people who were talking in a religious context. They dint need evidence to understand me. You then jumped in and challenged me so I wanted to know if you have evidence contrary to what I'm saying. But you dont. I am not interested in proving to you that people suffer for sins when you dont even know what sin is.

I've asked you to explain and all I get is this. Educate me. Can you get to it or not? Or are you just spouting nonsense?

italo:
1. Many of your utopian countries including US and Europe are in economic decline while Africa is witnessing economic growth.

Oh wow. And for the thousands of years where other cultures have thrived while living in this your 'sin', which I'm sure roughly translates to whatever your nonsensical moral code condemns, while less less 'sinful' cultures declined, how do you account for that?

America, for instance, which would probably translate to less 'sinful' in your nonsense speak, is in decline, at least when compared to godless china. Please explain that.

italo:
2. Abortion is not the only sin that brings suffering on a people.

Please, list all these things. And again, explain what your suffering entails.

Let me guess, does being less sinful = being xtian?

italo:
3. That sin brings suffering doesnt necessarily mean that if Bill Gates commits abortion, he'll suffer so bad that he'll be financially poorer than a Lagos bus conductor today (also, consider that the conductor sins and suffers for it too). What I say is: 'Bill Gates will suffer for his sins.'

By now you should know what to do...

italo:
*boring*

It wasn't meant to entertain you, bros, but educate. I just hope you learned something; get off your silly 'yahweh is the special one atheists concern themselves with'. Replace yahweh with pikkiwoki, so long as you mix your government and politics you would be challenged, simple.

^^^

If you cannot even admit that it was you who mentioned "better" and cannot where I said it, then you can continue your randomness with your fellow random purposeless particles.

Leave me out.

Like I said. Abortion will bring suffering on even the innocents in the land. I choose not to explain it to a random particle... unless it has evidence to the contrary.