greatgenius: I don't kmow about a skydaddy or supreme being( depends on what you mean by supreme) somewhere, but I know that God( the all that is )[/b]exists and we are all individuations of the all that is. Fact.

But let's entertain your line of thinking for a second. Even If there is such a thing as a skydaddy why do you see it as her/ his duty to cater for the needs of these kids. Why should he come all the way down from his abode to cater for these kids when other humans are in a better position to do that..

[b]Don't you think he would be infringing on your/humanity freewill..
Are you that wicked and lazy that you need your skydaddy to come down and do something as simple and humane as feeding the hungry among you and yet you throw away billions worth of food away everyday?..

Bottomline..your god is usęless in the scheme of things

cold:
Bottomline..your god is usęless in the scheme of things

my god?.. who says I have a god. and what scheme of things god brother.

BTW I know what I said earlier flew over your head due to your ignorance but its OK.

greatgenius: my god?.. who says I have a god. and what scheme of things god brother.

BTW I know what I said earlier flew over your head due to your ignorance but its OK.

let me reiterate. Your god is as useless as a used condom

no it is not. If you say destiny is predetermined then you are saying the man who does nothing and say nothing and risks nothing will ends up with same results as the man who prays and work hard. The only thing that is predestined and predetermined is your eventual death.everyother things requires an input from you. Now let us accept Jonathan is predestined to be president of Nigerian just like Obama is predestined to rule America but cant you see that by reason of preparation, inputs and personal efforts is enjoying his job and at the same time adding values to human existence whereas Jonathan is not enjoying the job and millions of Nigeria will still die because he lacks preparation.
Nigeria universities are not destined to be world class but you go and work and live among Nigeria professors and you will know why a university populated by smart dumbs will never excel.

destiny therefore if you are lucky to notice you are destined is to be pursued not to be idly waited for to happen. Obama had a dream, Jonathan did not,yaradua did not.whats the point in you being destined to be a president but a disastrous one.is that what you want to call destiny?

havard is not great by destiny.the faculty makes it rigorious for you not to succeed if you are not ready to think.in Nigeria university every one staff and students are preoccupied with knowing who is having sex with who and therefore cannot focus on any meaningful research.

stanza: Well, in as much as this topic is ambigious, my answer is destiny is predetermined. Even God said my plans for you are of Good and not of evil, to bring you to and expected end(heaven). God couldn't have created us to be full of sin, die and Go to hell. Adam for example changed his destiny when he ate the forbidden fruit. So man ultimately has a way of changing and determining his own destiny.

speaking of Adam changing his destiny by eating the forbiding fruit don't you think it was destined that Adam will eat the forbiden fruit through this question- why was the fruit planted in the first place? The bible said some re made for salvation and some re made for distruction. Isn't life pre-destined?

The Politics in heaven is not better than what we have here in Nigeria. God allowed us [masses]to pass through all these sufferings because He wanted to prove to His opponent that He can rule better than Him... I guess He overthrew him[devil] by Coup... @d topic. Destiny is predermined just like hollywood movies, the part you consider 'freewill' is the 'film trick' aspect of it to make it look classic and real. Only the author knws how his film will end...ETT...i guess they have a judicial system [karma] that check their excesses, thats why devil was bold enough to tempt Jesus just as in the case of Atiku and Obasanjo.

cold:
let me reiterate. Your god is as useless as a used condom

lol am i supposed to take offence to this. and who says I have a god.

let me recapitulate. My observation is that You are more useless than a used condom due to your ignorance.

Deadly Politicians everwhere. The sufferings of those kids aforementioned is synonymous with the B.H Insurgency. They are just strategies from the opposition party[APC] to rubbish someone's government[PDP]...

I still can't wrap my head around this destiny being predetermined or not..everyone is just ducking and diving

Joshthefirst: Your destiny is determuined by you. You choose your path. But the end is also known By God. He knows the final choice you'll make, he knows the end you choose your path, and you're responsible for the choices you make

People make this mistakes everytime thinking they have freewills or got decision to take over their action.

Science have shown us that freewill is complete illusion of the brain. Our instinct is different natural programme which take control of our action without any interruption by us. Also our mind, decision, and choice is purported by chemical reaction of our brain. The neurons is playing game on us and completely deceiving us. An alter in the brain destroys our action.....our choice and freewill is illusion. We aint free.

This is explained in the concept of Ori and Ipin..... This is yoruba philosophy on predestination.

Ori mean consciousness

Ipin mean manifestation of consciousness within existence.

A cripple, for instance, can never aspire to be the world's fastest sprinter, the world's best swimmer, or the world's number one footballer. In this regard, we can meaningfully say that a cripple has been destined by his deformed ara (body) not to be an outstanding sprinter, swimmer, or footballer.

Can we change our destiny? Religion defrauded people thinking they can change destiny. For instance, the Yoruba often say that Ohun Ori wa se ko ma ni salai se eo (what the Ori has come to achieve must definitely be fulfilled). It is only a duty to recognise our ori and work toward it.....we cant control our neurons but it opposite.....we are controlled by the neurons.

What holds our neuron and it reaction?

Factors of heredity and factors of environment.

Factors of heredity include all those inborn propensities common to a race or family, like certain physical characteristics, diseases, habits, and others we are programmed with.
Environmental factors include earthquakes floods, droughts, and various climatic changes. Socalled social environmental factors are those happenings in society that may influence individuals either at the level of specific actions or at the level of dispositions and characters. War, for instance, usually predisposes people to violence in a way they may not be predisposed to when society is at peace. Similarly, harsh economic conditions may propel some people toward such vices as prostitution, stealing, and armed robbery. The fact that human acts, characteristics, and dispositions are not products of absolutely free choices suggests that the practice of praising and blaming people is really meaningless and unjustifiable. This is because the system of morality presupposes that people make free choices.....the free choices is the chemical reaction of the brain so no choice at all.

nwaimorose@yaho:
For some pple i will say yes cos God created dem for a special assignment e.g Jesus, sampson, john d baptist etc and their births were prophecied about. While other pple were created wit so many other beautiful purposes but dey chose to go d opposit direction.

tell me d diff. Btw fate and destiny

Jehovah Shalom:

Dearest,

Destiny is predestinated but man can derail from Destiny if he allows the devil to tamper with it. The bible says the thief (Devil) cometh but to steal, destroy and Kill. Take for example the children of Israel, they were to be taken to a PROMISED LAND which journey is only 40DAYS but because they allowed the devil and gave in to disobedience, they spent 400yrs for a 40day Journey. That's what we are witnesing today in Nigerian.

So, where did the devil come from? And where did he get that impetus to tamper with what God had decreed? If a predestined life can be tampered with or derailed, what then makes it predetermined?

Nice thread!!!!!!!
In my own opinion, I'll say our lives have been predestined by God. Jesus fulfilled his destiny on earth because he knew his "PURPOSE" for existence.
God's thoughts towards us re thoughts of peace to give us an "expected end". Man's greatest achievement on earth is not based on d no houses or assets he has but in his ability to discover is PURPOSE for living and working towards fulfilling his destiny.
It takes the grace of God to fulfil our destinies (can't dispute on dt fact).

greatgenius: lol am i supposed to take offence to this. and who says I have a god.

let me recapitulate. My observation is that You are more useless than a used condom due to your ignorance.

Lol..very typical. You keep coming across as a borderline rétard desperately trying to sound intelligent. I have you all figured out

pro01: Let me reproduce a post I made about 2 years ago on the same subject:

www.nairaland.com/682432/believe-destiny#8453805
--------------

In all my years of philosophical reflection and debates, no subject has been more recurrent than the issue of destiny. And in all these years, my view has remained resolute and unchanging: Yes I believe in destiny and yes, destiny determines EVERYTHING that happens in everyone's life - from the good to the bad, and from the consequential to the inconsequential. Even the so-called 'hardwork', intelligence, skill and knowledge that some people insist are determinants of one's success in life are all products of destiny if you consider it deeply.
You may argue that since destiny determines everything, then why should anyone bother to make efforts to achieve any objective? Why not simply lie on your bed and wait for destiny to 'happen' to you? Well, there are two answers to this: (1) We are all programmed to do something, anything - and the outcome of whatever we do is already predertermined. (2) If you feel so strongly that you have to wait for destiny to happen to you, then that in itself is your destiny - and the outcome of your 'wait' is also predetermined. In both cases the eventual outcome (whether envisaged or not) is predetermined and totally out of your control. This may sound counterintuitive, but then it is not a simple argument that can be understood simply.

Indeed, you don't even have to believe in destiny for you to be subject to it. Destiny is something of a categorical imperative. It rules us all whether we realise it or not.

However, as I mentioned earlier, this is not a simple argument. It is an extremely intricate argument that incorporates so many layers and abstract nuances that one cannot fully fathom. If I begin to break down some of these layers here, I'm sure I'd bore everyone to tears with the volume, complexity and abstract substance of the resultant 'thesis'. The best way to evalute and understand the concept of destiny is to adopt a 'lateral thinking' approach.

To gain some insight into the complexity of this argument, read the Wikipedia entry.

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destiny

u ryt
o
God is the most superior,yet niether is our destiny is in God hands nor our hands,our destiny/fate is made up according to the allignment,conjuction/opposition of the sun,star,the elements,ordinances and the planet.it has all been programmed.
What would be our lot on earth as been planned from d alignment when we were concieved,the day,time,hour minute,sec either am/pm,the name we were given on our naming ceremony,wld determine d benefic/malefic course of our lyfs
Our destiny/fate are written in the starz

My views are that destiny is not predetermined, however, whatever decisions you make in life has it's consequenses. To back my point, i argue that if destiny where to be predetermined, why would there be judgement in the end? Logically speaking, our destiny is the verdict passed based on the chioces we make because right from the very start, we are eternally face with a choice to make, thus judgement.
Now in this matter, I chose to trust God to always make the right choices as prov 3:5 has encouraged me(which is also a choice) on the other hand,others can chose to handle there destiny by themselves but be informed that "the race is not for the swift" as eccle 9 :11 clearly puts it.
Thus, destiny is in our hands but we have a helper (JESUS) who is eternally loving and mercyful but it's your choice to chose HIS HELP.

pro01: Let me reproduce a post I made about 2 years ago on the same subject:

www.nairaland.com/682432/believe-destiny#8453805
--------------

In all my years of philosophical reflection and debates, no subject has been more recurrent than the issue of destiny. And in all these years, my view has remained resolute and unchanging: Yes I believe in destiny and yes, destiny determines EVERYTHING that happens in everyone's life - from the good to the bad, and from the consequential to the inconsequential. Even the so-called 'hardwork', intelligence, skill and knowledge that some people insist are determinants of one's success in life are all products of destiny if you consider it deeply.
You may argue that since destiny determines everything, then why should anyone bother to make efforts to achieve any objective? Why not simply lie on your bed and wait for destiny to 'happen' to you? Well, there are two answers to this: (1) We are all programmed to do something, anything - and the outcome of whatever we do is already predertermined. (2) If you feel so strongly that you have to wait for destiny to happen to you, then that in itself is your destiny - and the outcome of your 'wait' is also predetermined. In both cases the eventual outcome (whether envisaged or not) is predetermined and totally out of your control. This may sound counterintuitive, but then it is not a simple argument that can be understood simply.

Indeed, you don't even have to believe in destiny for you to be subject to it. Destiny is something of a categorical imperative. It rules us all whether we realise it or not.

However, as I mentioned earlier, this is not a simple argument. It is an extremely intricate argument that incorporates so many layers and abstract nuances that one cannot fully fathom. If I begin to break down some of these layers here, I'm sure I'd bore everyone to tears with the volume, complexity and abstract substance of the  resultant 'thesis'. The best way to evalute and understand the concept of destiny is to adopt a 'lateral thinking' approach.

To gain some insight into the complexity of this argument, read the Wikipedia entry.


www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destiny  

Have study fate for more than 5 years now. And this my brother is my conclusion on the subject matter. One of my most sighted case in view..Esau and Jacob. From womb Jacob was destine to be above Esua, no matter what any of them did by 'supposed freewill' nothing would have changed. Esau selling his birth for a potridge was already in the scheme of things to bring about the fulfilment of the prophesy

After reading each and every post here, i just got even more confused about this destiny stuff. Guess its time to exit this thread before my head starts spinning.

destiny/fate is predestined
u cant change it,even the case of jabez in d bible,as been predestined that it wld happen.
Marriage divorce,infidelity,poverty,wealth,ritual killings,untimely death etc are programmed into ones life by d alignment of d sun,star and planet when we wia born.
Our fate also lies in a hands of our parent,the power of a letter of our name is of a great significance,our ancestral foundation,how ur Placenta was disposed *ask ur parent* if u av problemz...etc
brb for more

cold:
Lol..very typical. You keep coming across as a borderline rétard desperately trying to sound intelligent. I have you all figured out

lol pathetic..another pseudo atheist who resort to silly conjectures and can't back it up due to their ignorance. They tuck their tail between their legs and run the minute they get challenged..

You are as pathetic and lost as the Christians you bash.

BTW I know you have me figured out. The reason I engaged you so go back and answer my question and stop the silly cat and mouse game to cover your ignorance

greatgenius: lol pathetic..another pseudo atheist who resort to silly conjectures and can't back it up due to their ignorance. They tuck their tail between their legs and run the minute they get challenged..

You are as pathetic and lost as the Christians you bash.

BTW I know you have me figured out. The reason I engaged you so go back and answer my question and stop the silly cat and mouse game to cover your ignorance

Lol..get bitter all you want.It does not take away from the fact that your god is one sick,twisted,petty,unjust,unforgiving control-freak,vindictive,bloodthirsty,ethnic cleanser,mysogynistic,racist,megalomaniacal,filicidal,pestilential,infanticidal,sadomasochistic,capriciously malevolent creature

Destiny is God's business. Ask ursef a class lecturer become president.

cold:
Lol..get bitter all you want.It does not take away from the fact that your god is one sick,twisted,petty,unjust,unforgiving control-freak,vindictive,bloodthirsty,ethnic cleanser,mysogynistic,racist,megalomaniacal,filicidal,pestilential,infanticidal,sadomasochistic,capriciously malevolent creature

why get bitter. Iam only teaching you..yes going by the bible the christian "god" is indeed malevolent. Your folly here is that you seem to think I am a Christian or have a god..

Having said that your argument about the kids and God still crumbles the moment it is dissected. Calling the christian god all sorts of names will not exonerate humanity( which you are a part) from that responsibility.

Again you are as lost and ignorant as the Christians you bash...

greatgenius: why get bitter. Iam only teaching you..yes going by the bible the christian "god" is indeed malevolent. Your folly here is that you seem to think I am a Christian or have a god..

Having said that your argument about the kids and God still crumbles the moment it is dissected. Calling the christian god all sorts of names will not exonerate humanity( which you are a part) from that responsibility.

Again you are as lost and ignorant as the Christians you bash...

Says the same person that said this earlier

greatgenius: I don't kmow about a skydaddy or supreme being( depends on what you mean by supreme) somewhere[b], but I know that God( the all that is )exists and we are all individuations of the all that is. Fact.
[/b]
But let's entertain your line of thinking for a second. Even If there is such a thing as a skydaddy why do you see it as her/ his duty to cater for the needs of these kids. Why should he come all the way down from his abode to cater for these kids when other humans are in a better position to do that..

Don't you think he would be infringing on your/humanity freewill..
Are you that wicked and lazy that you need your skydaddy to come down and do something as simple and humane as feeding the hungry among you and yet you throw away billions worth of food away everyday?..

You can't even make up your mind and take a stance on anything.If you can't stand for something,you'll definitely fall for anything. Apparently,you're even more confused than I gave you credit for.Just when I thought I had you all figured out,you go ahead outdo your own stvpidity.Why?Sigh...This exchange has been a colossal waste of my time.Continue to wallow in your ignominy

There is absolutely nothing that man becomes that is not of God. The bible says and those whom he love has he CALLED, those whom he has called has he JUSTIFIED and those whom he has justified, has he GLORIFIED. Man is HELPLESSLY HELPLESS in Destiny. You are only acting out A SCRIPT.

Come to think of it, if it is by eloquence, charisma, beauty, brilliance and Ideas, Goodluck Jonathan is one of those people that SHOULD never become a President in a Lifetime. And there he is!

What is Dbanj, Olamide, Whizkid, Tuface singing that an Average Isale-Eko boy cannot sing? That is DESTINY via PREDESTINATION.

Look at great people in history, even their birth, greatness and Death had been announced before their father slept with their mother! From Socrates, Aristotle, Achilles, Alexander the Great etc and this people exactly grew the way the Oracle at Dephi Predicted it! Is that by their knowing?

Our success, Our Failure, our highest achievement, our health, our happiness, our everything has all been determined by God. If you meet a pastor today, who said u wld die tomorrow and then u prayed and didn't die, it is not as if you have changed your destiny, it has been written so for you that you would meet such person in your life. CAN YOU SEE HOW HELPLESSLY HELPLESS that man is?

You become famous through an endeavour and you begin to pride yourself that it was by ur principles and dint of Hardwork- Forget it! There are millions of pple, in that same endeavour who know the principles better than you.

I want everybody to resign to fate (Ba ti waye la nri). DESTINY IS GREATER THAN MAN and it is TOTALLY PREORDINATED!!!!

cold:
Says the same person that said this earlier



You can't even make up your mind and take a stance on anything.If you can't stand for something,you'll fall for anything. Apparently,you're even more confused than I gave you credit for.This exchange has been a colossal waste of my time.Continue to wallow in your ignominy

lol just like I said. A pseudo atheist. One who is not that intelligent either.

Understand that there is no contradiction in both statements.. God( all that is) exists; and I don't have a god are not contradictions. Only a simpleton will think otherwise..it is very simple. Don't make me have to break it down for you.

1ST OF ALL, I TINK DAT D MENTALITY & INTELLECTUAL CAPACITY OF NIGERIANS IS TOO LOW & HAS BIN PREDESTINED BY LORD LUGARD & D BRUTISH BRITISH.

2NDLY, I WAS SO IMPRESSD READIN BOUT D YORUBA PHILOSOPHY OF PREDESTINATION HERE. THANKS.

FINALLY, I TINK MY LIFE HAS BIN PREDESTINED BY FACTORS SUCH AS MY SEX (MALE), NATIONALITY (IGBO), TIME OF CONCEPTION & BIRTH (SCORPIO), PARENTS ETC. WHILE MY LIFE IS ME-DETERMINED IN ASPECTS SUCH MY POLITICAL GOAL (BIAFRA &SELF-DETERMINATION), RELIGION (LOVE) ETC

WELL, I TINK ITS A 50/50 THING. MY LIFE IS BOTH PREDETERMINED & ME-DETERMINED. SHIKENA! SHOTIGBO! IWOTAGO? HE HE HE...

The subject of pre-destination is a long debated matter in philosophy. As I have come to learn, for each one of us born into this material world, the circumstances of our lives had been set before us, before we came into being. Therefore, we are never responsible for our circumstance, but not for the choices we make. We are always at liberty to make our choices in response to our respective circumstances. These choices when made also lay us open to an already defined outcome, which may be either good or bad. And so the story goes!

greatgenius: lol just like I said. A pseudo atheist. One who is not that intelligent either.

Understand that there is no contradiction in both statements.. God( all that is) exists; and I don't have a god are not contradictions. Only a simpleton will think otherwise..it is very simple. Don't make me have to break it down for you.

The fact that you're slow is not in doubt.It's the enormity of the situation that is frightening.Your case is really pitiable.The fact that you believe in a 'God(all that is)' is all the proof I need that you simply can't be classed as intelligent but nice try

Interesting discussion! Nice analysis from: pro01, FOLYKAZE and others.

Honestly, human thinking seems to be the same. Some time last year when I lost a dear brother, I was having this brainstorming about life, destiny and predestined life.

I went into deep debate with some of my elder brothers, even the well educated ones, and at a point, my most senior brother told me:

See, you really have amazing points that are about to convince me that life has been predestined, but I refuse to accept it and why not start your own kind of religion to teach people this, I am sure you will gain so many followers but then, your followers will be lazy people!!!

Honestly, if u analyze the issues of life with consideration of things happening around you and people you know, you will be so tempted to believe that life has been predestined by God.

And like I sometimes tell my friends and family members: this world seems to be a movie script being filmed or aired to teach some other creatures some lessons, and we humans seems to be the actors acting out an already written script written by a producer, God.

You will see some people who do not know anything and puts little or no effort succeeding bigger than those putting even greater effort and we still believe that hardwork is the key.

Most celebrities today put no much hardwork than some poor fellows dying of hunger on the streets.

No one chose where he or she would be born. None of us chose our parents or nationalities, so why didn't people chose to be born in England into the royal family?

Somewhere in the Bible, God said: I will bless whom I will bless! That statement still scares me till date.

The story of Esau and Jacob is another scary one.

What about that of Sampson in the Bible?

If we could recall too, at a point, Jesus got tired of the pains he was going through when he was about to be crucified on the cross, and he called on his father saying: father if it is by thy will, let this pains pass me by, but because it has been predestined that he would come and die to set sinners free, there was nothing he could do to stop the crucification.

Cheating is a punishable sin, but Jacob sinned, was a constar and still excelled. But Ananias and his wife committed same sin of cheating and died instantly.

Obasanjo and Musa Yaradua were jailed after they were accused of trying to topple the then government, in the process, Musa died and Obasanjo came out, and in the process, Abacha died, and it was time for democracy, and the northerners started looking for a way to repay the south-westerners of their loss, Abiola and decided to pick who again? Obasanjo, why?

Even during the primaries, Alex Ekwueme won but the table got turned at the die-minute just to ensure Obasanjo was made the president to usher in Yaradua to also pave way for Goodluck Jonathan to fulfill destiny.

In fact, it is still a mystery how this world really operates. May God have mercy on me if I am reasoning the wrong way and help me to understand better.

However, I am enjoying the discussion from those with good points. And pls those attacking each other fighting should pls stop and argue more intellectually so we all can learn from each other.

Una well done

But then, if life is entirely predestined, why would there be judgment after all?

In another second reasoning, I think, and I maybe right ot wrong, that life maybe predestined with some adjustments for every individual to change things happening in his/her life, but without altering the master plan as orchestrated by the mast planner, which is God Almight Himself.

This is my second thought though.

specialguest: After reading each and every post here, i just got even more confused about this destiny stuff. Guess its time to exit this thread before my head starts spinning.

Special, u are right but u know...I still believe that there is a truth in the saying that: life has been predestined by God.

God is the all-knowing. He knows the beginning from the end. And like the Bible said: God's plan for us is not of evil but of good to bring us to an EXPECTED END!

Take a closer look at that phrase: Expected end, meaning that God knows our end and He also knows our beginning.

Again remember the case of Job. God was being so proud of Job and then the devil told God that Job was only being faithful to Him (God) because of the wealth You (God) gave Job, so God gave Satan permission to tempt Job, but never to hurt or take his soul (life). Read Job 1- 12, and Job 42 vs 12.

Meaning that God knew that Job would never fall to Satan's temptation even after his wealth and children were all taken away from him.

Which is another proof that God knows our end from our beginning.

Honestly, the issue of life and predestined life is still a mystery. May God help us all to understand and never to make a grievous mistake in our lives.