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Re: Are Indian Bosses In Nigeria That Bad??? by AjanleKoko: 11:24am On Nov 09, 2013 |
logica: Interestingly, several of the examples you mentioned are run by Indians. So Glo, Afrijet, Arik Air, etc., are owned by Indians? ![]() Nigerians must find excuse sha. No shaking. ![]() |
Re: Are Indian Bosses In Nigeria That Bad??? by logica(m): 11:32am On Nov 09, 2013 |
AjanleKoko:You don't know the difference between "owned" and "run"? ![]() 1 Like |
Re: Are Indian Bosses In Nigeria That Bad??? by AjanleKoko: 11:38am On Nov 09, 2013 |
logica: You don't know the difference between "owned" and "run"? That's cute. ![]() Glo isn't run by Indians, FYI. Glo is run by Mrs Talabi, Sangowawa, and Paddy. And Mike himself. Any Indian in Glo is just an employee like the Nigerians who are complaining. I work in that industry. Afrijet isn't run by any Indians. Neither is Arik. If there is any Indian in the employ of Arik, such Indian certainly has no serious say in the management. Stop making imaginary conjecture around. If you don't know, it's much better to restrain yourself from typing. |
Re: Are Indian Bosses In Nigeria That Bad??? by logica(m): 12:13pm On Nov 09, 2013 |
AjanleKoko:Good for you; you are the only person who works in the Nigerian IT industry. In any case, I have worked with Indians professionally and with Nigerians; for 6 years in the US I bested them as colleagues consistently. So when you say Nigerians are lazy, I take it you speak of those you pay chicken feed and expect to lose an arm and a leg working for you (like Indians do). I have some kids I am working with, and they are as good as any Indians I have ever worked with. This is software development I am talking about; the same one you hear Indians are the gods. When I say Indians "run" a company, every sensible person knows I don't necessarily speak of management. What do Talabi and Paddy know about IT for instance? I do know they are essentially delegating to their slave drivers who have plenty of experience working in that capacity. |
Re: Are Indian Bosses In Nigeria That Bad??? by AjanleKoko: 12:28pm On Nov 09, 2013 |
logica: Good for you; you are the only person who works in the Nigerian IT industry. again. Cute. If I had a kobo for every time I heard a Nigerian tell about how they have bested Indians at work or in school, i would be rich by now. But you don't get the point do you. The Indians are just employees who are told what to do by the likes of Paddy and Talabi. Most of the Indians in Glo actually work in Marketing, not even in IT or any tech capacity. Some even work in the call center. Think about what the real lesson is, in there. And when you're done thinking about that, consider why, despite that Nigerians have so many great software developers like you, all the banks are running software from I-flex or Infosys (Indian companies). Or why the Indians consistently fill the H1-B quota. Why are Nigerians not in there? My point is, if you didn't figure it out: Nigerians are very bad at representing ourselves, what we stand for, and why we should be taken seriously. If those Indians in Glo are just employees, it should have occurred to us that they are also competing for attention from the real owners of the companies. So they will play dirty, if they have to, to make sure that we look like lazy incompetents. Problem is, 9 times out of 10, we always prove them right. 1 Like |
Re: Are Indian Bosses In Nigeria That Bad??? by logica(m): 12:50pm On Nov 09, 2013 |
AjanleKoko:Aha! H1-B? The same H1-B that I was employed on right from Nigeria 13 years ago? The same H1-B that helps America find cheap labor eh? Ha ha. Who else would fill the quota if not for those who have perfected the art of cheap labor? And who told you Nigerians are not employed on H1-B? ![]() Yes, Indian companies have a head start, and that's why many of our banks run on Finacle and the like. How easy is it to compete with companies who have the advantage of even test-running their software in the US? The few Nigerian companies able to give them a run for their money are just not bothered because of the steep cost of getting into the industry. Yet we have several Nigerian companies offering competing software in other areas e.g HumanManager (SystemSpecs) even if it is crappy. But Nigerian software companies have mostly come alive with Mobile Banking/Payments. I can see what Parkway Projects have done; very professional. So yes, we are right there with the Indians even if we are a bit behind due to exposure. And oh yeah, I bested them, not to brag. And these were guys who had been in the US longer and more experienced. So I hope with this addition you reach tipping point and get rich. |
Re: Are Indian Bosses In Nigeria That Bad??? by AjanleKoko: 1:04pm On Nov 09, 2013 |
logica: Aha! H1-B? The same H1-B that I was employed on right from Nigeria 13 years ago? The same H1-B that helps America find cheap labor eh? Ha ha. Who else would fill the quota if not for those who have perfected cheap labor? I can only return your he-he with another he-he. Like you're the first and only Nigerian to be recruited to the US via H1-B in 2000? A lot of Nigerians were recruited with H1-B in 1999 and 2000, the dot-com boom era. Not only Nigerians, by the way. Engineers and programmers were recruited into the US from just about anywhere. But Indians have consistently filled that quota for years now, I don't hear of too many Nigerians being recruited via H1-B in a very long while. A significant number have even returned to the country. You're also making cheap labor sound like a dirty word. That's part of the reality problem Nigerians have; there's a reason why these companies in Silicon Valley are taking these jobs away from their own people, don't you think? If there are cheaper alternatives available, why would they not take it? I am glad that you're at least admitting that Nigerians are way behind when it comes to the business of selling tech. I say way behind, because Parkway or Neptune Software can't exactly play on the same stage as an Infosys, or a Wipro, or a TechMahindra. Achievable, yes, but we're not there yet. Not by a long shot. Was in Chile, recently. The tech scene there is by many leaps and bounds more advanced than anything being done in sub-Saharan Africa. Nigerians really need to stop complaining and learn to earn respect the hard way. Every body just complains about every employer. if it's not Nigerian employers, it is some Indian, Chinese, Lebanese, Israeli, or Russian employer. I guess people just want to be paid. ![]() |
Re: Are Indian Bosses In Nigeria That Bad??? by logica(m): 1:15pm On Nov 09, 2013 |
AjanleKoko:If you knew this, why did you then rhetorically ask "where are Nigerians"? Even up till today, Nigerians interested in working in the US are still getting employed on H1-B (some from Nigeria and some on graduating from US universities). So I don't quite get your point here. AjanleKoko:Well, you were not there in the US to work with the Indians I worked with; but I must tell you they were overall not as good as the Americans. There is a reason they were cheaper; and believe you me there is a cost associated with being cheap and it is seen in quality (you pay peanuts, you employ monkeys). So you have to reach an equilibrium of quality versus cost. There was even one (my Indian colleague) who was clearly better at singing than writing code; and he part confessed to this fact (that he was actually a musician). He had obviously bribed somebody to get an H1-B to get to the US. Many of them simply paid somebody in an Indian owned company in the US to file for them. Everybody but the Americans know there is a lot of corruption in the H1-B regime. Basically what I am telling you is, it's all reputation (from the 80s with the explosion of PC technology and software led by Microsoft) that has kept several mediocre Indians employed. Many are nowhere near the expertise of the forerunners. If you are talking of Indians who are on top of their game, you are referring to the very apex who represent no more than 2% of Indian developers. 1 Like |
Re: Are Indian Bosses In Nigeria That Bad??? by Venchy: 9:07pm On Nov 09, 2013 |
Mr Aboki: [b]Indians and Chinese people all think and believe that they are superior to Africans, in the same way the WHite supremacists see africans as Niggas.\ That's for Criminal in charge of Nigeria to sort that mess out but they are busy collecting kick backs from foreign investors as well as Nigerian Employers. Sickening. |
Re: Are Indian Bosses In Nigeria That Bad??? by Venchy: 9:25pm On Nov 09, 2013 |
adconline: "Men lie, women lie, numbers dont" Good work ethics and ambitious for DEVELOPMENT while our leaders are busy looting public fund. One more thing you forgot to mentioned is HEALTH CARE.....now, Nigerians are flying to India for medical treatment because we can't diagnose NOTHING, Madela never stepped out of South Africa for treatment but Nigerian politicians and their family flies out for dislocation of wrist. Very serious matter, Jonathan dey Yab, Oduah dey mess and there's no CAR PARK at MM AIRPORT.....This are the reason why. |
Re: Are Indian Bosses In Nigeria That Bad??? by LeJeun3: 11:22pm On Nov 09, 2013 |
Sagamite:Defeatist attitude........... I have learnt that it doesn't work. |
Re: Are Indian Bosses In Nigeria That Bad??? by logica(m): 11:34am On Nov 10, 2013 |
adconline: "Men lie, women lie, numbers dont"Aha, your history lesson is not complete. Most of the success and prosperity India currently enjoys today trace directly back to the PC and software boom of the 80s especially Microsoft, IBM and several other major players in the IT industry. They just so happened to discover they could recruit Indians to do several of these jobs and at lower costs. And they simply stuck to this tried and tested formula: "You need cheap technical labor? Go to India". I can draw an analogy between this and a football club called Espanyol in Spain. They employed goalkeeper Thomas Nkono (a Cameroonian) in the 80s. Because of his performance, they then employed another Cameroonian goalkeeper (Idris Kameni) in 2004. They had found a formula. This kind of action is common in football and in fact other areas of human endeavor: Newcastle had found a formula in a (preferably tall) strong African lone striker, like Levante. "Tried and tested" is the watch word. Now if Espanyol had tried a Nigerian and he did well like Nkono, they would forever be searching for Nigerian goalkeepers. But does this prove the Cameroonian goalkeeper is superior to other African goalkeepers in general? I think not. So yes, the Indians capitalized on the situation and turned it into an industry: making labor available to the US. 1 Like |
Re: Are Indian Bosses In Nigeria That Bad??? by esere826: 1:25pm On Nov 10, 2013 |
^^ excellent this bit you so cleverly drew out how self fulfilling prophesis work **goes back into the thinkers position, chin on knuckle** |
Re: Are Indian Bosses In Nigeria That Bad??? by Nobody: 1:56pm On Nov 10, 2013 |
logica: Aha, your history lesson is not complete. Most of the success and prosperity India currently enjoys today trace directly back to the PC and software boom of the 80s especially Microsoft, IBM and several other major players in the IT industry. They just so happened to discover they could recruit Indians to do several of these jobs and at lower costs. And they simply stuck to this tried and tested formula: "You need cheap technical labor? Go to India". so why haven't nigerians been able to tap into this same formula or create our own? a large part of securing business is perception - so where are the issues with our brand management coming from? there is an attitude i have seen with a lot of nigerian artisans on projects and with mechanics too - take it or leave it - it cannot be done better than this; a complete satisfaction with mediocrity coupled with some sort of misplaced arrogance over perceived competence. there's an old man that used to be in my department - a CAD drafter. the man's knowledge of CAD was like 10%, and there were multiple QA issues with his work - but he was the only one, and he had a lot of pride for a person who imho could not draft for sheet. i'm very cad proficient, and this came about partially because i hated the idea of begging some lazy Arrow to stay back to finish his work. i seem to recall dangote choosing to hire filipinos over nigerians as factory workers because of a lazy attitude to work. i personally recall this attitude during my It in siemens panel workshop - the workers all did over time, but for the money only. they paced themselves through the day to ensure they worked overtime. two years later there was a major management shakeup and their oga had to leave because panel fabrication was not profitable. i have to wonder if this same attitude is not part of the higher level workers - a satisfaction for mediocrity coupled with the arrogance of 'we are uni graduates/white collar workers' |
Re: Are Indian Bosses In Nigeria That Bad??? by logica(m): 2:09pm On Nov 10, 2013 |
oyb:How can we tap into something that we were not a part of, and that took off from the 80s? Do you think Nigeria would not have become a tech hub like India in IT Technology if we had been the "chosen" go-to reservoir of technical talent in the 80s? Yes we would have; because just as there were Indians working for tech companies from way back, so were Nigerians. There were just as technically capable Nigerians just as were Indians (though of course there were way more in India going by their population). oyb:How is this a Nigerian thing? I will give an example of an acquaintance who used to think like some of you here: that if you have any software development need, go to India. He got seriously burned on a few projects; his Indian contacts delivered shoddy work and apparently they didn't even understand the requirements, and outright lied about their proficiency. He ended up still searching, but coming to Nigeria and Kenya. That is what is happening. |
Re: Are Indian Bosses In Nigeria That Bad??? by Sagamite(m): 2:14pm On Nov 10, 2013 |
LeJeun3: Defeatist attitude........... I have learnt that it doesn't work. How is that a defeatist attitude? Explain. Venchy: But yet some of our fucktards would fight you for not speaking proudly of Nigeria. For having the audacity of not thinking it is Giant of Africa. And these fucktards because of their inferiority complex are always hating on South Africa and even Ghana now (as Ghana is beginning to leave them behind), instead of focusing their negative energy on the fucktards ruling them (which I bet majority of them voted for). |
Re: Are Indian Bosses In Nigeria That Bad??? by AjanleKoko: 2:16pm On Nov 10, 2013 |
oyb: Aha. You're now right where we have been since the beginning of this thread. ![]() An exaggerated sense of self-importance, a serious case of entitlement-mentality, and a total lack of vision. That's the problem of the Nigerian working-class. Indians are merely good at working the system, wherever they find themselves. In fact, it's the crudest of the lot that find themselves in Nigeria on a regular basis. My LinkedIn inbox is perennially bombarded by Indian CVs. Of course I have worked consistently with Indians over the last 15 years to not give a crap about them, or be particularly impressed with them. But we Nigerians are so bad at packaging and positioning ourselves, it's just pathetic. There's a fundamentally-flawed assumption that Nigerians are naturally talented and hardworking. Nothing could be further than the truth. The hustling mentality is way to pervasive, and will prevent much quality from emerging. In fact most times it is shyt that floats - tough-talking nuccas ![]() Let me even use Logica's stated area of specialization; software development. The very good companies or individuals are so few and so much in high demand, it is ridiculous. I once tried to hire someone and train the person in user interface design outside Nigeria, but the people I saw were more interested in the remuneration that whatever the job was about. Almost all candidates were entirely unsuitable, and many were unwilling. I've had to resort to Indian or Eastern European companies for many development assignments. So Nigerians should stop wailing about Indians or other employers. My dad used to say that, at some point in your career, you might find yourself working for the devil himself. Suck it up and learn from him is his recommendation, considering that since he's the devil, he obviously has something worth learning about, or some skill worth acquiring. 2 Likes |
Re: Are Indian Bosses In Nigeria That Bad??? by Nobody: 2:19pm On Nov 10, 2013 |
logica: you are still missing the point - why is it indians are able to sell themselves and nigerians aren't? what is stopping us from building our own wipro today? we have the same infrastructure challenges the indians have, not so? |
Re: Are Indian Bosses In Nigeria That Bad??? by Nobody: 2:24pm On Nov 10, 2013 |
i posted this after i seem to recall dangote choosing to hire filipinos over nigerians as factory workers because of their lazy attitude to work. i personally recall this attitude during my IT in siemens panel workshop - the workers all did over time, but for the money only. they paced themselves through the day to ensure they worked overtime. two years later there was a major management shakeup and their oga had to leave because the department was not profitable. i will be frank - the indian we have in my office ia a major prick, but he knows the BS game. he also knos how to rubbish all of us to mgt - which means you have to be on top of your game |
Re: Are Indian Bosses In Nigeria That Bad??? by Sagamite(m): 2:31pm On Nov 10, 2013 |
logica: Aha, your history lesson is not complete. Most of the success and prosperity India currently enjoys today trace directly back to the PC and software boom of the 80s especially Microsoft, IBM and several other major players in the IT industry. They just so happened to discover they could recruit Indians to do several of these jobs and at lower costs. And they simply stuck to this tried and tested formula: "You need cheap technical labor? Go to India". What absolutely clunking rubbish! So you mean companies like IBM, Microsoft, Apple, Oracle etc who would have elite students as corporate strategists do not do any assessment of all alternatives and just follow an historical trend? They go and spend millions on setting up bases in Bangalore without any analysis of options and justification of selected option apart from "well we have used this one before and it did not fail"? And you think, coincidentally, all these companies staff have a "group think"? They all became mumus that decided to all go to India without an assessment of benefit maximisation relative to costs? They just all mumuishly decided to stick with one country while countries like Nigeria were equally capable and do not have inferior IT professionals on average? You clearly don't understand how strategic decisions are made and you are making an assumption. My friend, serious assessments are done on issues like this. It is just not a scenario of some CEO and Directors sitting their arsses somewhere and pulling unreasoned executive decisions from their whims. Here is an example I gave earlier: https://www.nairaland.com/507378/nigeria-close-population-disaster-british/2#6693852 |
Re: Are Indian Bosses In Nigeria That Bad??? by logica(m): 2:34pm On Nov 10, 2013 |
oyb:But I already pointed how they are able to "sell" themselves: they live off the contribution of the forerunners in the 80s to create tech giants like Microsoft, Apple, IBM etc. But like I said, most of them are not as competent as the general world would have us believe. It's not different from when Nigerians go to some other countries and they think by default we are all super-smart. By the way, did you learn how the Indians ran down MultiLinks? I have never heard or seen more incompetence, laziness, sense of entitlement and corruption as found in the MultiLinks story. 1 Like |
Re: Are Indian Bosses In Nigeria That Bad??? by Nobody: 2:50pm On Nov 10, 2013 |
logica: But I already pointed how they are able to "sell" themselves: they live off the contribution of the forerunners in the 80s to create tech giants like Microsoft, Apple, IBM etc. But like I said, most of them are not as competent as the general world would have us believe. It's not different from when Nigerians go to some other countries and they think by default we are all super-smart. You want to talk about multilinks when we have several companies nigerians ran down by themselves? Look at what is happening to aero, look at the bank chiefs who blew 25 billion, look at Jimoh Ibrahim and air nigeria |
Re: Are Indian Bosses In Nigeria That Bad??? by AjanleKoko: 2:53pm On Nov 10, 2013 |
logica: oyb: It wasn't Indians that crashed Multilinks. It was South Africans. Telkom execs, to be precise. |
Re: Are Indian Bosses In Nigeria That Bad??? by logica(m): 3:01pm On Nov 10, 2013 |
oyb:Aha. So you see they are no better managers after all? What makes them better than us? |
Re: Are Indian Bosses In Nigeria That Bad??? by logica(m): 3:05pm On Nov 10, 2013 |
AjanleKoko:My guy, I had front row seat in watching the meltdown of MultiLinks. It was previously Indian owned before the South Africans stepped in and they had completely run down the establishment by then. Telkom bought 75% stake in 2007. There were incidents of massive fraud and embezzlement. I even learned one of their Indian managers bought a large portion of land in V/I. My wife worked there. http://www.thenigerianvoice.com/nvnews/117015/1/how-we-were-8216misled8217-into-investing-in-multi.html |
Re: Are Indian Bosses In Nigeria That Bad??? by sCun: 3:22pm On Nov 10, 2013 |
Sagamite:only in your filthy dreams. |
Re: Are Indian Bosses In Nigeria That Bad??? by Sagamite(m): 10:02pm On Nov 10, 2013 |
sCun: only in your filthy dreams. Nigerian universities are producing fucktards like you and the country is stalling. No doubt you are one of the fucktards I was referring to hating on SA and Ghana. 2 Likes |
Re: Are Indian Bosses In Nigeria That Bad??? by Nobody: 3:40am On Nov 11, 2013 |
AjanleKoko: The bolded I have found to be true. Its always about how much, no one considers how well, or what can be learned. Most Nigerians will pick a higher salary over without any considerations. |
Re: Are Indian Bosses In Nigeria That Bad??? by birdman(m): 7:02am On Nov 11, 2013 |
AjanleKoko:' I dont disagree with anything you just said, esp. our get- rich quick by any means attitude. However, this is not what you were asking originally. It seems the thread has shifted into a Nigerian-Indian comparison. |
Re: Are Indian Bosses In Nigeria That Bad??? by AjanleKoko: 7:45am On Nov 11, 2013 |
birdman: ' What I said at the beginning was that I don't think Indian bosses are that bad. Nigerian employees in contrast are rather lazy, not very smart on the job, and entitled. My opinion hasn't changed. 1 Like |
Re: Are Indian Bosses In Nigeria That Bad??? by Sagamite(m): 8:12am On Nov 11, 2013 |
AjanleKoko: ![]() Worst breed of employees as I have frequently highlighted to clients: The unable and unwilling bunch. The ones you gladly and unreservedly recommend for the sack or redundancy at the earliest opportunity except the can find, asap, a different function in the organisation they are more interested in and can do. |
Re: Are Indian Bosses In Nigeria That Bad??? by tayoccu(m): 10:57pm On Nov 11, 2013 |
AjanleKoko: Bros multilinks was as good as dead when telkom came on board, get your facts right. |
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