Good day christian Nairalanders.
I am a Muslim. I was discussing with christian recently on d topic of salvation.
The discussion was getting interesting until he made a statement that ''Born agains don't sin''. I opened my mouth and cldnt close it. Of course i didn't agree, maybe its because i dnt av d 'holy spirit' as he put it.

This is d verse d@ best justifies d@ claim.
1 john 3-9 ''Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in Him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God''

Is that verse not contradicting dis verse??1 John 1:8-10(KJV)
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

NB:- pls don't be quick to condemn me 4 quoting d Bible, I needed 2 bring d evidence for and against d arguement so d@ i can be best understood.
2- if u feel i dnt av d 'holy spirit' to understand d verses or i av quoted dem out of context, that shldn't cause for fight. Just provide d context of d verses and analyse wit d 'holy spirit'.

Now, my question to nairaland christians......
''Do born agains commit sin?''
''How do we categorize dis practices carried out by christians; backbitting, slander, Lust, Envy, pre-marital sex, FORNICATION, Insult/Abuse etc??

We av 2 be careful how we answer dis questions. Somebody might be quick to conclude that those who practice d aforementioned sins are not really 'born again'. If dis statement is true, d@ means d@ we av less dan 1% born again in the entire world because hardly will we find som1 dat has nt commited one or all of this sins since He/she was baptized.

On a final note, im nt here 2 make trouble with u christians, u can check my sinature for confirmation.

i'll realy want you to be honest here.
If you read that chapter from the beginning down to verse 4 and 5, you'll discover that he was introducing some pple to fellowship with Christ. The words in verse 6 down to verse 10 are all directed to those he was writing to (after telling them what he enjoys as a Christain, in verse 1 to 3)
the real message to those he was talking to starts 4rm verse4
..............................................
When u are born again, whatever you did b4 bcoms a history. Yot start a NEW LIFE in the NATURE OF CHRIST, wch makes it hard to comit a sin...dats why its calld BORN AGAIN

^^^
I seem to understand ur point, but u dnt understand mine. Been born again makes it hard to sin has u av put it, for fear of argument, i agree. But 2 say dere is 100% full proof against sin is wot im trying hard 2 comprehend.

dyfatai: ^^^
I seem to understand ur point, but u dnt understand mine. Been born again makes it hard to sin has u av put it, for fear of argument, i agree. But 2 say dere is 100% full proof against sin is wot im trying hard 2 comprehend.

100 is definately attainable, and God desires that from us.
1 Peter 1:16 says "for it is written: “Be holy, because I (God) am
holy.”
if a christain does what i wrote in the other thread, he cn attain 100percent holiness.
Like i said, a clean slate is given whenever one becomes born again. Its nt by one's power or abilities, its a spiritual RE-BIRTH that makes u REPEL sin with ease.
The nature of man is sinful (man would only struggle to please God)..., bt the God-nature, dat nature of holiness is gotten thru been born again.

anochuko01:
100 is definately attainable, and God desires that from us.
1 Peter 1:16 says "for it is written: “Be holy, because I (God) am
holy.”
if a christain does what i wrote in the other thread, he cn attain 100percent holiness.
Like i said, a clean slate is given whenever one becomes born again. Its nt by one's power or abilities, its a spiritual RE-BIRTH that makes u REPEL sin with ease.
The nature of man is sinful (man would only struggle to please God)..., bt the God-nature, dat nature of holiness is gotten thru been born again.

i apologise 4 taking 2 long 2 reply, i refrained because u didn't really answer my questions and pointing dem 2 u over and over will just make me look silly. All ur explanations are geared towards d fact d@ being born again will avoid sin but d question was nt if it wld be easy 4 born again 2 commit sin, but that are dey impervious to the sin? If yes, u contradict 1 john 1:8, if no, u contradict 1 john 3:9. And if ur answer is born again are sinless, wot happens 2 all d sins and attrocities perpertrated by christians all over d world (other religion sin 2 ooo, dnt get me wrong). So, will u say all dis christians aren't born again?

Thanks 4 understanding

the responses so far is not satisfactory

every one of us are prone to sin even the spirit-filled chjristian.However unlike the unbeleiver the xtian strives to avoid sin to the best of his/her strenghts and immediately asks for forgiveness when the sin

chukwudi44: every one of us are prone to sin even the spirit-filled chjristian.However unlike the unbeleiver the xtian strives to avoid sin to the best of his/her strenghts and immediately asks for forgiveness when the sin

tanx man, u av just answered d question unambiguosly, born again's COMMIT SIN.

jansie: the responses so far is not satisfactory

u can also air your views ma'am.

dyfatai: i apologise 4 taking 2 long 2 reply, i refrained because u didn't really answer my questions and pointing dem 2 u over and over will just make me look silly. All ur explanations are geared towards d fact d@ being born again will avoid sin but d question was nt if it wld be easy 4 born again 2 commit sin, but that are dey impervious to the sin? If yes, u contradict 1 john 1:8, if no, u contradict 1 john 3:9. And if ur answer is born again are sinless, wot happens 2 all d sins and attrocities perpertrated by christians all over d world (other religion sin 2 ooo, dnt get me wrong). So, will u say all dis christians aren't born again?

Thanks 4 understanding

when a 'drunk' does anythng, we'll say they're not in their right senses. But when they dnt drink, they get bck their senses. Also, a born-again christain who FELLOWSHIPS WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT AND GOD'S WORD ON A DIALY BASIS WILL NOT COMMIT SIN (because they increase in the 'GOD NATURE' in them wch includes HOLINESS). Any born-again who commits sin has failed to do either of these. its as simple as dat.
And i told u dat 1John 1:8 was written to those who were NOT BORN AGAIN yet.
..............................................
Those who call themselvs BORN AGAIN and still commit sin or say 'we are all sinners, ask them how much time they spend in PRAYER and STUDYING OF THE BIBLE in a day, and hear their response.
This thing is pure PRACTICAL....

chukwudi44: every one of us are prone to sin even the spirit-filled christian.However unlike the unbeleiver the xtian strives to avoid sin to the best of his/her strenghts and immediately asks for forgiveness when he sins

do u av the baptism of the holy spirit?. how long do u spend in prayer and studying of ur bible (personally)?
If u'v not been doing these, u'll continue to live in sin.

anochuko01:
do u av the baptism of the holy spirit?. how long do u spend in prayer and studying of ur bible (personally)?
If u'v not been doing these, u'll continue to live in sin.

exactly my point, by dis ur standard and judgement, we av less born agains in nigeria dan serving governors. ME NEVER C ANY CHRISTIAN THAT DOSEN'T SIN. The closest av come 2 seeing is dis wonderful personalty i met in high school, Still, he cheated wit us in WASSCE. So, so far, u are d only self acclaimed 'Sinless' person ive 'met'.

dyfatai: Good day christian Nairalanders.
I am a Muslim. I was discussing with christian recently on d topic of salvation.
The discussion was getting interesting until he made a statement that ''Born agains don't sin''. I opened my mouth and cldnt close it. Of course i didn't agree, maybe its because i dnt av d 'holy spirit' as he put it.

ok

This is d verse d@ best justifies d@ claim.
1 john 3-9 ''Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in Him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God''

Like someone has said "Be ye holy as I am holy" particular this verse is meant for the real born-again not people like me who still praying for the real born-again in which God and I will be commue together.

Is that verse not contradicting dis verse??1 John 1:8-10(KJV)
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

This verse actually meant for every human on earth before being born-again but once you're TRULY born again the above verse is for you

NB:- pls don't be quick to condemn me 4 quoting d Bible, I needed 2 bring d evidence for and against d arguement so d@ i can be best understood.

No condemnitaion in Christ.....

2- if u feel i dnt av d 'holy spirit' to understand d verses or i av quoted dem out of context, that shldn't cause for fight. Just provide d context of d verses and analyse wit d 'holy spirit'.

The rate you people harmering on the word HOLYSPIRIT this day is just to say God have mercy

Now, my question to nairaland christians......
''Do born agains commit sin?''
''How do we categorize dis practices carried out by christians; backbitting, slander, Lust, Envy, pre-marital sex, FORNICATION, Insult/Abuse etc??

Simple they are not TRULY born-again whereas all these are the works of the flesh.

We av 2 be careful how we answer dis questions. Somebody might be quick to conclude that those who practice d aforementioned sins are not really 'born again'. If dis statement is true, d@ means d@ we av less dan 1% born again in the entire world because hardly will we find som1 dat has nt commited one or all of this sins since He/she was baptized.

If they are not truly born-again is not yours to conclude with that percent
@bold-that's why we have an Advocate with the Father the man Christ Jesus 1 John 2:1 for those who can quickly realized their error.

On a final note, im nt here 2 make trouble with u christians, u can check my sinature for confirmation.

And Christians never make a move of making trouble with you either.



Shalom!

dyfatai: Good day christian Nairalanders.
I am a Muslim. I was discussing with christian recently on d topic of salvation.
The discussion was getting interesting until he made a statement that ''Born agains don't sin''. I opened my mouth and cldnt close it. Of course i didn't agree, maybe its because i dnt av d 'holy spirit' as he put it.

This is d verse d@ best justifies d@ claim.
1 john 3-9 ''Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in Him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God''

Is that verse not contradicting dis verse??1 John 1:8-10(KJV)
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

NB:- pls don't be quick to condemn me 4 quoting d Bible, I needed 2 bring d evidence for and against d arguement so d@ i can be best understood.
2- if u feel i dnt av d 'holy spirit' to understand d verses or i av quoted dem out of context, that shldn't cause for fight. Just provide d context of d verses and analyse wit d 'holy spirit'.

Now, my question to nairaland christians......Everyone remaining in union with him does not practice sin; no one that practices sin has either seen him or come to know him

''Do born agains commit sin?''
''How do we categorize dis practices carried out by christians; backbitting, slander, Lust, Envy, pre-marital sex, FORNICATION, Insult/Abuse etc??

We av 2 be careful how we answer dis questions. Somebody might be quick to conclude that those who practice d aforementioned sins are not really 'born again'. If dis statement is true, d@ means d@ we av less dan 1% born again in the entire world because hardly will we find som1 dat has nt commited one or all of this sins since He/she was baptized.

On a final note, im nt here 2 make trouble with u christians, u can check my sinature for confirmation.

simple: A born again can sin, but his is not expected to make a practice of sin.

Your confusion is understandable, and it stems from the wrong translation of that bible portion. see how it should read:

6. "Everyone remaining in union with him does not practice sin; no one that practices sin has either seen him or come to know him."

9. "Everyone who has been born from God does not carry on sin, because His [reproductive] seed remains in such one, and he cannot practice sin, because he has been born from God".

The italize bolded words carries the proper sense. He does not practice or carry on sin (indicating a progressive action). For eg, before one becomes a christian he may be a deliberate fornicator, but on being a Christian, he is not expected to live in that sin anymore. Though, he may have occasional relapse as he battles an addiction, he no longer deliberately keep fornicating. a relapse is just cos we are imperfect/addiction (which he subsequently prays for forgiveness), but he is not expected to deliberately live in that sin anymore.

This does not however, mean that he will not be punished for going back to fornication simply 'cos of imperfection, no. But it does not mean he is condemned eternally 'cos of relapses, he can ask of forgiveness remorsefully and be certain that God will forgive him.

Emusan:

ok



Like someone has said "Be ye holy as I am holy" particular this verse is meant for the real born-again not people like me who still praying for the real born-again in which God and I will be commue together.



This verse actually meant for every human on earth before being born-again but once you're TRULY born again the above verse is for you



No condemnitaion in Christ.....




The rate you people harmering on the word HOLYSPIRIT this day is just to say God have mercy



Simple they are not TRULY born-again whereas all these are the works of the flesh.



If they are not truly born-again is not yours to conclude with that percent
@bold-that's why we have an Advocate with the Father the man Christ Jesus 1 John 2:1 for those who can quickly realized their error.



And Christians never make a move of making trouble with you either.



Shalom!

God bless u bro.
"Its simple, the bible says we should work in the spirit and not fufill the lust of the flesh". Also, the bible says "there's NO LAW AGAINST THE WORKS OF THE SPIRIT", unlike the works of the flesh.
Its kinda hard to explain to smbdy who doesnt even 'bliv' in the existence of the Holy Spirit.

JMAN05:

simple: A born again can sin, but his is not expected to make a practice of sin.

Your confusion is understandable, and it stems from the wrong translation of that bible portion. see how it should read:

6. "Everyone remaining in union with him does not practice sin; no one that practices sin has either seen him or come to know him."

9. "Everyone who has been born from God does not carry on sin, because His [reproductive] seed remains in such one, and he cannot practice sin, because he has been born from God".

The italize bolded words carries the proper sense. He does not practice or carry on sin (indicating a progressive action). For eg, before one becomes a christian he may be a deliberate fornicator, but on being a Christian, he is not expected to live in that sin anymore. Though, he may have occasional relapse as he battles an addiction, he no longer deliberately keep fornicating. a relapse is just cos we are imperfect/addiction (which he subsequently prays for forgiveness), but he is not expected to deliberately live in that sin anymore.

This does not however, mean that he will not be punished for going back to fornication simply 'cos of imperfection, no. But it does not mean he is condemned eternally 'cos of relapses, he can ask of forgiveness remorsefully and be certain that God will forgive him.

i agree with u TO AN EXTENT. But "shall we continue in sin and expect grace to abound? NO". Lets do what it takes to attain the fullnes of the nature of Christ (in holiness, wisdom, health etc). A perfect Christain life is possible, only if we cn pay the price.

dyfatai: exactly my point, by dis ur standard and judgement, we av less born agains in nigeria dan serving governors. ME NEVER C ANY CHRISTIAN THAT DOSEN'T SIN. The closest av come 2 seeing is dis wonderful personalty i met in high school, Still, he cheated wit us in WASSCE. So, so far, u are d only self acclaimed 'Sinless' person ive 'met'.

u must av dne the head-counts of born-agains we av in nigeria, avnt u? A born-again is the one dat'll nt cheat even when he has NOTHING to write....
If u dnt fufil the spiritual obligations of bn a born-again, there's no way u'l av its physical manifestatns...Dats my point!
This is a matter of THEY DONT WANT TO rather than THEY CANT.

Every human being sins. Christian or not.

Let us not be fooled by those who are distorting Christianity, claiming to be "born again," saying they dont sin.

"There is no truth in them," says the Holy Spirit.

italo: Every human being sins. Christian or not.

Let us not be fooled by those who are distorting Christianity, claiming to be "born again," saying they dont sin.

"There is no truth in them," says the Holy Spirit.

Which Holy Spirt? You?

Mintayo:
Which Holy Spirt? You?

The Holy Spirit that inspired John 1:8.

I know you people have many Holy Spirits that teach you many contradictory doctrines.

italo:

The Holy Spirit that inspired John 1:8.

I know you people have many Holy Spirits that teach you many contradictory doctrines.

lool,there is no point dragging issue with you...you ppl do nt actually have d Holy Spirit,cus i wonder what kinda Holy Spirit will inspire you to commit sin.
BTW@Op,Emusan and inochukwu have answered you perfectly.

Mintayo:
lool,there is no point dragging issue with you...you ppl do nt actually have d Holy Spirit,cus i wonder what kinda Holy Spirit will inspire you to commit sin.
BTW@Op,Emusan and inochukwu have answered you perfectly.

Who said Holy Spirit inspires sin.

You have created that position...and you are now arguing against it.

Good luck.

All I know is that the Holy Spirit says anyone that claims not to have sin has no truth in him. (1 John 1:8 )

italo:

Who said Holy Spirit inspires sin.

You have created that position...and you are now arguing against it.

Good luck.

All I know is that the Holy Spirit says anyone that claims not to have sin has no truth in him. (1 John 1:8 )

Maybe you should reread my post,this time very slowly.
That is your own interpretation...it is better you read from verse 5.
1 John 3:9 says that...
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His(God)seed remaineth in Him: and he CANNOT sin because he is BORN OF GOD.
.
Once you are born again,the seed of God lives in you,the nature of sin has been destroyed...you are born of God.

Mintayo:
Maybe you should reread my post,this time very slowly.
That is your own interpretation...it is better you read from verse 5.
1 John 3:9 says that...
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His(God)seed remaineth in Him: and he CANNOT sin because he is BORN OF GOD.
.
Once you are born again,the seed of God lives in you,the nature of sin has been destroyed...you are born of God.

To simplify the matter:

Are you born of God?

Have you ever committed a sin since you became born of God?

italo:

To simplify the matter:

Are you born of God?

Have you ever committed a sin since you became born of God?

mintayo, pls answer dis question.

Thanks

dyfatai: mintayo, pls answer dis question.

Thanks

And if i don't?

italo:

To simplify the matter:

Are you born of God?

Have you ever committed a sin since you became born of God?

Does my answering the question change what is written in the scriptures? Does it change the Word of God? Smhg.

Double post

Mintayo:
And if i don't?

Mintayo:
Does my answering the question change what is written in the scriptures? Does it change the Word of God? Smhg.

Truth goes straightforward; lies go roundabout.

The deception and hypocrisy is now clear to see.

italo:

Truth goes straightforward; lies go roundabout.

The deception and hypocrisy is now clear to see.

That is your problem. The last time i checked,I am not answerable and accountable to you.
The Word of God can not be broken,that is how you people twist the scriptures to suit your selfish,sinful and evil desires.
Just to make things clear,born again christains do not COMMIT sin because they have the seed(incorruptible) of God in them. They do not make sin their lifestyle.

Mintayo:
That is your problem. The last time i checked,I am not answerable and accountable to you.
The Word of God can not be broken,that is how you people twist the scriptures to suit your selfish,sinful and evil desires.
Just to make things clear,born again christains do not COMMIT sin because they have the seed(incorruptible) of God in them. They do not make sin their lifestyle.

Dont bother writing a long epistle. Your inability to answer the simple question speaks volumes.

Truth goes straightforward; lies go roundabout.

italo:

Dont bother writing a long epistle. Your inability to answer the simple question speaks volumes.

Truth goes straightforward; lies go roundabout.

lol,like i said,that is your problem...i know who i am,i know who i am in Christ Jesus,i know i am born of God and His seed remains in Me...i hope you are born of God too.