oyinda.:

yeah i do agree with u that there are other factors that play a big role. even more than education sef. and they are all related really. countries with better health systems, less crime are more likely to have a better education system etc.
so i do agree with u on that

Yep. You are on point.

I agree Asian Education is better than western --the only reason Asians come to the West is to use their education to earn more rewards--financial and research facilities. Africans do for the same reasons!!

Nigerian education is also very good and you can see the results in the high number of qualified Naija people making it in all subjects in the west. The only problem is the fairly recent downturn of Nigerian Universities ( in the last 12-15 years) due to underfunding by Government. This is however being offset by the private universities coming up in Naija!! They are the future of good quality education in Nigeria. Why spend so much to study in the west when private Universities in Naija are much cheaper and even better!! Asian IT colleges are now opening campuses in Ghana.

Education in Asia and Africa (especially Nigeria and Ghana) is very important to us.

Most western companies even prefer to employ graduates from outside western Universities if they want hardworking researchers.

This is however being offset by the private universities coming up in Naija!!

yeah we definitely need that.

Nijasingh:

I agree Asian Education is better than western --the only reason Asians come to the West is to use their education to earn more rewards--financial and research facilities. Africans do for the same reasons!!

Nigerian education is also very good and you can see the results in the high number of qualified Naija people making it in all subjects in the west. The only problem is the fairly recent downturn of Nigerian Universities ( in the last 12-15 years) due to underfunding by Government. This is however being offset by the private universities coming up in Naija!! They are the future of good quality education in Nigeria. Why spend so much to study in the west when private Universities in Naija are much cheaper and even better!! Asian IT colleges are now opening campuses in Ghana.

Education in Asia and Africa (especially Nigeria and Ghana) is very important to us.

Most western companies even prefer to employ graduates from outside western Universities if they want hardworking researchers.

My friend, after doing more research, i would have to admit that Western education is waaaaaaay ahead of Asian education, its not even close. Asian schools are only good for just a bachelors. The bachelors program at the Indian Institute of Technology (IIT) or China's Tsinghua University is brutal compared to even MIT or Caltech. For more proof, just look at this year's Nobel prize winners, all of them except one woman ( the lady who won for physiology and medicine) who is a researcher at Israel's Weizermann institute. The difference between the Asian schools and the western schools starts at the graduate level (masters and PhD level) because the Asians are still far behind in the level of research that western schools do. The only research institutes/universities that can compete with western schools are the Israeli schools i listed like the Technion Institute or Weizermann Institute. Sorry for misleading anyone sha, the reason i started it was partly to educate our people that if they couldn't afford to go to the west, instead of going to Ghana why not go to malaysia, singapore or India where you can get a much MUCH MUCH BETTER education.

Also, on your assertion that there is no need spending all that money to go to school in the West, omo na lie ooooooo. If you have the money YOU BETTER FIND YOUR WAY TO A STANFORD OR A UC BERKELEY because the gap between those schools and the ones in naija is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo   wide its not even funny. Just go and ask any naija boy who went from OAU to any good school in yanki, they would tell you the difference is very very very clear. Nigerian professors are EXTREMELY HORRIBLE and as bad as the public universities are, THE PRIVATE UNIVERSITIES ARE MUCH MUCH MUCH WORSE. I hope that you would one day have the opportunity to come to yanki then you would truly, truly understand how wide the gulf is between our schools and there schools. So my guy, even if you have the cash, you better find your way over here.

davidif:

My friend, after doing more research, i would have to admit that Western education is waaaaaaay ahead of Asian education, its not even close. Asian schools are only good for just a bachelors. The bachelors program at the Indian Institute of Technology (IIT) or China's Tsinghua University is brutal compared to even MIT or Caltech. But where the drop off starts of is at the graduate level (masters and PhD level) because the Asians are still far behind in the level of research that western schools do. The only research institutes/universities that can compete with western schools are the Israeli schools i listed like the Technion Institute or Weizermann Institute. Sorry for misleading anyone sha, the reason i started it was partly to educate our people that if they couldn't afford to go to the west, instead of going to Ghana why not go to malaysia, singapore or India where you can get a much MUCH MUCH BETTER education.

David, I agree with what you say regarding education at research level--Masters and Doctorate etc. That is why I said  the reason why Asians and Africans come to the west is Research and Financial !! As for professors in both Asia and Nigeria, I have great respect for them as they work with limited resources and facilities. Give them the same as in the west and see what they can do. That is why quite a few top researchers in the west are from Asia and Africa. The government in Ghana funds its universities better but then they have much fewer than Nigeria.Private universities or corporate universities are the answer to funding in Africa and Asia.

That is why quite a few top researchers in the west are from [i]Asia [/i]and Africa

I think only asia,

SEFAGO:

I think only asia,

Me too. I don't see any Africans working for top level research labs like Bell Labs and co.

there are so many asians at the top that I can't even use the excuse of discrimination to describe the paucity of africans in such positions

SEFAGO:

there are so many asians at the top that I can't even use the excuse of discrimination to describe the paucity of africans in such positions

True Talk. Asian Americans are indeed the 'Model Minority'

Taking into consideration the  varied opportunities for personal development and skills acquisition that are available in a country like America, there really is no contest.

Furthermore, institutions like Harvard,Princeton and MIT are world leaders in terms of original scentific research and development. This coupled with generous funding enables them to attract talented researchers from all over the world.

As oyinda rightly said it really should not  just be about observing the high academic performance of the priviledged minority of students from countries like India and concluding therefrom the Indian education stystem,for instance, is better than that of any Western country.

chic2pimp:

True Talk. Asian Americans are indeed the 'Model Minority'

For real my brother. In  fact, i think the words asian and excellence should be synonymous with each other.

Nijasingh:

David, I agree with what you say regarding education at research level--Masters and Doctorate etc. That is why I said  the reason why Asians and Africans come to the west is Research and Financial !! As for professors in both Asia and Nigeria, I have great respect for them as they work with limited resources and facilities. Give them the same as in the west and see what they can do. That is why quite a few top researchers in the west are from Asia and Africa. The government in Ghana funds its universities better but then they have much fewer than Nigeria.Private universities or corporate universities are the answer to funding in Africa and Asia.

Hardly any naija professor ever does research, all they know how to do is to bang female students. Not all research must be done in million dollar facilities like the Lawrence Livermore National laboratory, you can just do basic research on areas like rural agriculture or other issues affecting naija. Our schools are basically known as cramming institutions instead of research institutions: rote memorization is the order of the day, instead of analyzing problems and solving them. Nigerians seem to confuse "hardness" of the material (or syllabus) to learning which is very sad. The fact that 50% of the students fails a class doesn't necessarily mean that the school itself is very good or that the school is the best, it might mean that the professors are incredibly incompetent. Also, simply, because you can write 20 fullscap sheets of paper on exam day doesn't mean that you are intelligent, it just means that you know how to cram, simple as that. This is why we need to revamp our educational system to be more focused on problem solving so that we can compete with the Brazillians, Chinese, Indians and later on the Americans.

I am not saying that rote memorization (cramming) is bad. It is necessary in primary school and even in secondary school because there are some things you need to memorize like formulas and the times table or other basic theories in junior secondary school but in university there should be a transition to applying those theories to solving real problems. Also in a country like naija where most teachers don't know what they are teaching and therefore cannot properly explain certain concepts to the students like arcane concepts in geography like "lacustrine plains" or more popular ones like Newton's Laws of Motion, then cramming might not be necessary.

It's nice to see fellow nigerians get tired of the laxity and inefficiency synonymous to Nigeria-- our soccer team, universities, hospitals , you name it. We need to be more creative, productive and oriented towards solving problems. If that is to happen then we must change laws, policies, processes, often in order to improve them. I think some Nigerians are making their mark both at home and abroad. Education is the key if we don't want to be relegated to the background in the global order of business, technology, health, etc in the next decade. we must start as individuals to change things.

David, reading this thread was really enlightening, more power to your elbows.

9ja ace:

It's nice to see fellow nigerians get tired of the laxity and inefficiency synonymous to Nigeria-- our soccer team, universities, hospitals , you name it. We need to be more creative, productive and oriented towards solving problems. If that is to happen then we must change laws, policies, processes, often in order to improve them. I think some Nigerians are making their mark both at home and abroad. Education is the key if we don't want to be relegated to the background in the global order of business, technology, health, etc in the next decade. we must start as individuals to change things.

David, reading this thread was really enlightening, more power to your elbows.

My brother we are all extremely tired of our continent's failures, there is so much that one can take until enough becomes enough.

I disagree with asian education being better than d west's. Go to european universities, u find out that most of the foreign students are asian on scholarships(sm even funded by companies), u even find asian univs. Signing western teachers to come over.Asian unis have better funding than western ones so they tend to project into practicals, some studnt even sign contracts with companies whereby the company fund their education and work for the company after theyve finished studying. In terms of curricula d wests are on top,And bring out the best of students through research. Thats why most asian students go for research outside and bring back indepth knowledge and one thing though, they're really smart.Most western universities are well equipped evenly but in asia mostly the urban ones are.

SLIGHT:

I disagree with asian education being better than d west's. Go to european universities, u find out that most of the foreign students are asian on scholarships(sm even funded by companies), u even find asian univs. Signing western teachers to come over.Asian unis have better funding than western ones so they tend to project into practicals, some studnt even sign contracts with companies whereby the company fund their education and work for the company after theyve finished studying. In terms of curricula d wests are on top,And bring out the best of students through research. Thats why most asian students go for research outside and bring back indepth knowledge and one thing though, they're really smart.Most western universities are well equipped evenly but in asia mostly the urban ones are.

You have a good point, the only reasons why the western universities still have the edge over the Asian ones is because of research. The western universities have a lot of money and can therefore afford to spend ridiculous amounts on research which the Asians don't have yet.

davidif:

You have a good point, the only reasons why the western universities still have the edge over the Asian ones is because of research. The western universities have a lot of money and can therefore afford to spend ridiculous amounts on research which the Asians don't have yet.

I differ slightly and agree with the previous poster. Asian Universities actually engage in way more significant research than most European universities and are inching closer to American Universities. It is possible that Asia would generate significant innovation in the next 100 years . However, their research is nearly as good as European ones except of course research intensive countries like Germany and Switzerland who are in a class of their own. In terms of funding, I would wager than more funds are

I think the major advantage "western" countries have over Asia is the curricula development especially at the undergraduate level.

americans are definitely way more innovative.

asians rely more on rote learning but i hope that's changing. if they can learn to be more creative and innovative, they will surpass the west.
but they instill good study and work ethics in their pupils that the west lacks.

SEFAGO:

I think the major advantage "western" countries have over Asia is the curricula development especially at the undergraduate level.

ori e pe jare. Asia is excellent from the undergraduate level down to the elementary school level, in which the American schools are terrible.

oyinda.:

americans are definitely way more innovative.

asians rely more on rote learning but i hope that's changing. if they can learn to be more creative and innovative, they will surpass the west.
but they instill good study and work ethics in their pupils that the west lacks.

Yep, the Asians focus on rote memorization but they are deviating from that.

Asia is excellent from the undergraduate level down to the elementary school level, in which the American schools are terrible.

Hmm . . . it depends. I am sure you are referring to the sciences and engineering, and a bit to business- but at the undergraduate level asians do not focus on humanities a lot. Infact, Nigeria has produced a significant number of notable writers than the Asians.

Also I feel the US has probably the best undergraduate education if you consider individual and departmental strengths of schools instead of focusing on the popular ones. That is understand that CMU is better than Harvard for engineering instead of focusing on the fact that Harvard is number one. In my own opinion, the school you attend does not really matter as much as your drive- its just that there is a high concentration of driven people at certain schools.

SEFAGO:

Hmm . . . it depends. I am sure you are referring to the sciences and engineering, and a bit to business- but at the undergraduate level asians do not focus on humanities a lot. Infact, Nigeria has produced a significant number of notable writers than the Asians.

Also I feel the US has probably the best undergraduate education if you consider individual and departmental strengths of schools instead of focusing on the popular ones. That is understand that CMU is better than Harvard for engineering instead of focusing on the fact that Harvard is number one. In my own opinion, the school you attend does not really matter as much as your drive- its just that there is a high concentration of driven people at certain schools.

Humanities are overrated.

davidif:

Humanities are overrated.

No they are not lol. A lot of the smartest people in the world studied humanities. Infact the highest test scores in standardized tests are usually *gasp* humanities majors. The ability to read, think and write critically is the basis for all versions of creativity

Weizmann Institute is actually a very strong research institute and very respected among scientists. Its like the MRC laboratory at Cambridge. They have a lot of collaborations in biomedicine with some top schools. NUS is also a very good school but I have talked with a lot of singaporeans and they dont place it in very high regard.

SEFAGO:

No they are not lol. A lot of the smartest people in the world studied humanities. Infact the highest test scores in standardized tests are usually *gasp* humanities majors. The ability to read, think and write critically is the basis for all versions of creativity

seconded.

IMO
most non-westerners seem to underrate it. because our main concern is immediate wealth and lucrative jobs. that's the purpose of education to us.
in comparison to Asians and Africans, i think Americans value prestige and power that comes from being better educated over a higher salary. that's why they are more likely to study the humanities etc.


and for Asian undergraduate school, I think there is only so much you can memorize and at some point, you have to learn how to think to be smart.
I think American undergrad is better in that sense.
but asian education is better through middle school. that's where rote learning matters most and the brain is still very open to absorb a lot of information but US education doesn't stress it for elementary and middle schools as they should.

oyinda.:

and for Asian undergraduate school, I think there is only so much you can memorize and at some point, you have to learn how to think to be smart.
I think American undergrad is better in that sense.

That's a lie jare, there is nooooooooooooo way that American undergrad is better than Asian undergrad and your assertion that Asians only memorize is just a stereoype. If you are right, then how come the best students in yanki universitities are the Asians uhn ? The Indian institute of technology (IIT) is better than MIT and the Indian institute of Management (IIM) is better than Harvard Business school (HBS). The acceptance rate in these [indian] schools is around 2% while MIT and Harvard are around 20%. The funny thing is that the Indian students that are not even good enough to go to IIT or IIM get into the Harvard's and the MIT and are the best students there. Just look at the graduate schools in Yanki, who do you think make up a huuuuuuuuuuuuuge majority of the students? This are the same students doing all this groundbreaking research.
Look at the formidable Chinese schools like the legendary Tsinghua university or Beijing University. The guys from this school go to yanki and they do much better than the yanki students by far. YOU KNOW WHAT THE SCARY THING IS? THIS GUYS ARE NO LONGER COMING TO THE U.S IN DROVES ANYMORE BECAUSE THERE ARE MORE OPPORTUNITIES OPENING UP FOR THEM IN THERE NATIVE LANDS. THIS IS VERY VERY SCARY FOR THE AMERICANS THAT HAVE GOTTEN BY ON RECRUITING HUMAN TALENT FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD.

you make good points

but i personally envy american smartness more than i envy asian smartness still. asian smartness is only good for pleasing parents. i know i'm exaggerating but u get the idea.

and i thought most ground breaking research are done by americans and westerners.
there aren't too many asian noble prize winners for example. and most scientific discoveries are by westerners.

and for the acceptance rate thing. that can be explained by population. I'm sure if America also had billions of students waiting to take just 100K spots, acceptance rate will drop lower than in china and india sef.

Just look at the graduate schools in Yanki, who do you think make up a huuuuuuuuuuuuuge majority of  the students? This are the same students doing all this groundbreaking research.

umm. they are doing the research in a western education system!
are we comparing asian and american students. or we are comparing asian and american schools? 
because even asian students who do most of their schooling here in the US tend to do really well grade wise

oyinda.:

but i personally envy american smartness more than i envy asian smartness still. asian smartness is only good for pleasing parents. i know i'm exaggerating but u get the idea.

and i thought most ground breaking research are done by americans and westerners.
there aren't too many asian noble prize winners for example. and most scientific discoveries are by westerners.

are we comparing asian and american students. or we are comparing asian and american schools?
because even asian students who do most of their schooling here in the US tend to do really well grade wise

The school makes the student, do you think this kids would have been super students if they went to my high school or they went to the useless universities we have in naija. Also, who do you think it is that does all this crazy research for the Nobel Prize winners? Its the Asians that do the bulk of the work while the oyinbo guy wins the Nobel Prize.

a stereoype. If you are right, then how come the best students in yanki universitities are the Asians uhn Huh? The Indian institute of technology (IIT) is better than MIT and the Indian institute of Management (IIM) is better than Harvard Business school (HBS). The acceptance rate in these [indian] schools is around 2% while MIT and Harvard are around 20%. The funny thing is that the Indian students that are not even good enough to go to IIT or IIM get into the Harvard's and the MIT and are the best students there. Just look at the graduate schools in Yanki, who do you think make up a huuuuuuuuuuuuuge majority of the students? This are the same students doing all this groundbreaking research.
Look at the formidable Chinese schools like the legendary Tsinghua university or Beijing University. The guys from this school go to yanki and they do much better than the yanki students by

LOL, you cannot pull such a scam on my head. First of all IIT is not even close to MIT at the undergraduate level. I have a feeling when you say something is better, you mean it has better students right since you would not be claiming that IIT has better resources or faculty. IIM better than HBS- are u serious? All these claims that people make are just funny.

The acceptance rate of IIT is pretty low I admit, but this has been discussed in several places. It does not highlight the quality of students. I can wager that the acceptance rate of Unilag rivals that of any Harvard professional school. And no, Tsingua and Beijing are not formidable lol. Please engage with a true MIT student and you would never claim they are equal to an IIT student again. The reason why Asians are more in graduate school is because its the easiest way for them to come to America IMO.

YOU KNOW WHAT THE SCARY THING IS? THIS GUYS ARE NO LONGER COMING TO THE U.S IN DROVES ANYMORE BECAUSE THERE ARE MORE OPPORTUNITIES OPENING UP FOR THEM IN THERE NATIVE LANDS. THIS IS VERY VERY SCARY FOR THE AMERICANS THAT HAVE GOTTEN BY ON RECRUITING HUMAN TALENT FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD.

It doesn't matter- it just means more Americans would be forced to go into the engineering and science field.

The school makes the student, do you think this kids would have been super students if they went to my high school or they went to the useless universities we have in naija. Also, who do you think it is that does all this crazy research for the Nobel Prize winners? Its the Asians that do the bulk of the work while the oyinbo guy wins the Nobel Prize.

U are a bit wrong here. A smart student would thrive academically anywhere he attends. Schools like Beijing and Tsinghua are highly selective so they get the top brains in their country. Same case for IIT. The problem with schools like Harvard is that they are not really the best in their country. Harvard has a yield rate of 73% (the highest in any undergraduate college) meaning 27% decide to go elsewhere. Harvard also has around 1800 students out of the 2.2 million high school students in the US. Around 1/4 would be "average" (i.e top 5%) but the large majority would be in the upper half of the top 1% barring affirmative action, legacy and athletic admits. These are the cream of the crop and it would make sense why Harvard undergrads dominate nobel laureates. The rest of the top 5% who were not good enough for the elite 5 (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT and Stanford) will end up elsewhere.

davidif:

The school makes the student, do you think this kids would have been super students if they went to my high school or they went to the useless universities we have in naija.

like SEFAGO already said, a smart student will thrive anywhere. just that a school with adequate resources is all the smart student needs.
and anyways, my point was that why aren't they doing the groundbreaking research in their country why did they come to american schools to do it if their own schools were so much better?

Also, who do you think it is that does all this crazy research for the Nobel Prize winners? Its the Asians that do the bulk of the work while the oyinbo guy wins the Nobel Prize.

this is EXACTLY why I say that i envy oyinbo smartness more than asian smartness.
most people who have achieved greatly in this world have people under them who are doing all the physical work!!
you can say the same for presidents , CEOs,  an army commander (the soldiers are doing all the physical work) and on and on. but who gets the credit? the person who comes up with the ideas or leads the execution!! not the people who are actually executing the ideas. lol
asian smartness sometimes seem to me to be limited to following instructions and working hard.  this isn't bad don't get me wrong. but i think they can work on their education system to improve it with their growing resources.

oyinda,
If oyinbos are all smart, why is it that they themselves acknowledge that Asians are the smartest? uhn

SEFAGO:

It doesn't matter- it just means more Americans would be forced to go into the engineering and science field.

ha ha ha ha, more Americans would be[b] forced [/b] to go to the engineering field? ha ha haha. You really are funny, i would love to ask my oyinbo friends, the lot of them that study humanities to drop it and go study chemical engineering ha ha ha, or to go get there PhD's in Engineering, that would be hillarious he he he. Abeg stop arguing blindly, the problem with most Nigerians is that they argue to win an arguement and not necessarily to learn new things.

oyinda.:

like SEFAGO already said, a smart student will thrive anywhere. just that a school with adequate resources is all the smart student needs.

How many schools have those "adequate resource" you mentioned? Isn't that what seperates your UNILAG from your CALTECH? uhn?

SEFAGO:

U are a bit wrong here. A smart student would thrive academically anywhere he attends.

You are wrong, wrong, wrong. Why don't you send your students to be taught by an HND holder? In case, you didn't know, teaching is all about the quality of instruction, if the instructor is an HND holder he would not be as good as a masters degree holder in that same field, why do you think that Singapore has the best secondary school education in the world? its because they realize that a student is only as good as the quality of instruction he gets, that's why they focus on teachers, teachers, teachers. Every teacher must have graduated top of his class and to complement that, he his sent to teaching school and after that he is put under another experienced teacher so that he can apprentice because they understand that knowing something is not the same thing as being able to explain it, especially to students of a different intellectual level than you.

davidif:

oyinda,
If oyinbos are all smart, why is it that they themselves acknowledge that Asians are the smartest? uhn

I never said americans were smarter. americans are smart in a different way. ie. i like the way americans use their intelligence vs asians.

but yea asians are more studious and more hard working. and the americans acknowledge that. but this can be partially attributed to the asian culture rather than the schools. for example, if you bring an asian family to the US with a new born baby, the asian child is likely to do very well even in an american school system.
doesn't mean there isn't truth to your argument because i still believe that up to high school level, asian schools are superior in math and science. but I can't say the same for undergrad just because too many asians leave for america to study. if their system was better, it will make sense that they wouldn't.

i think this topic will be more productive if we can state the factors and characteristics that make an asian education system i.e school hours, teaching style, resources, class size etc and compare that with american system to see what makes one superior over the other.