ha ha ha ha, more Americans would be[b] forced [/b] to go to the engineering field? ha ha haha. You really are funny, i would love to ask my oyinbo friends, the lot of them that study humanities to drop it and go study chemical engineering ha ha ha, or to go get there PhD's in Engineering, that would be hillarious he he he. Abeg stop arguing blindly, the problem with most Nigerians is that they argue to win an arguement and not necessarily to learn new things.

are you assuming that this change will happen in less than 4 years?  isn't that extreme?
rather,  americans, if they notice shortage of foreign students will just improve the focus on math and science in the k-12 schools. the students when they go on to college will then be more likely to study math and science.
or, if there is a shortage of engineers, salary will rise SHARPLY and american students will take advantage of the demand and lack of competition with asians etc. just that the quality of the professionals might drop unless the first route is taken concurrently where math and science is emphasized in k-12.
the same goes on in asian countries. math and science is emphasized from childhood.

you seem not to see any value or worth in the humanities lol

You are wrong, wrong, wrong. Why don't you send your students to be taught by an HND holder? In case, you didn't know, teaching is all about the quality of instruction, i

"a smart student will thrive anywhere" applies only in developed country like US. where most higher education institutions are SOLID. this is the major reason why education here is superior.
a smart student in the US will thrive at Tufts or UCLA just as much as at MIT. which is why you can't objectively say MIT is a better school than Tufts or UCLA.
in india on the other hand, maybe IIT is the only good school they have or one of the very few.  and it won't be fair to compare two continents based on just a few schools. we should consider the whole education system.

You are wrong, wrong, wrong. Why don't you send your students to be taught by an HND holder? In case, you didn't know, teaching is all about the quality of instruction, if the instructor is an HND holder he would not be as good as a masters degree holder in that same field, why do you think that Singapore has the best secondary school education in the world? its because they realize that a student is only as good as the quality of instruction he gets, that's why they focus on teachers, teachers, teachers. Every teacher must have graduated top of his class and to complement that, he his sent to teaching school and after that he is put under another experienced teacher so that he can apprentice because they understand that knowing something is not the same thing as being able to explain it, especially to students of a different intellectual level than you.

Well incase you are now aware the large majority of introductory classes in the US are taught by TAs- i.e people who have not gotten a PhD yet. Also you are picking an extreme example. As Oyinda pointed out, I meant in the US, and certain countries the school you go to would not be that great of a difference assuming equal ability. I do admit that Investment banks and consultancy firms may discriminate against people from non-top schools initially but things even out in the long run as evidenced by the fact that a large number of CEOs did not attend top schools. undergrads.

ha ha ha ha, more Americans would be forced to go to the engineering field? ha ha haha. You really are funny, i would love to ask my oyinbo friends, the lot of them that study humanities to drop it and go study chemical engineering ha ha ha, or to go get there PhD's in Engineering, that would be hillarious he he he. Abeg stop arguing blindly, the problem with most Nigerians is that they argue to win an arguement and not necessarily to learn new things.

I meant before they got their undergraduate degrees. Please be aware- MIT at the undergrad level is 80-88% American. The large number of Asians are Asian Americans who feel 100% American and would not decide to go anywhere. Further please be aware, all things being equal, most Asians doing PhDs would be loathe to go back home to their country- which can be seen by the low return rate of Asian PhD students. With China's repressive regime and intense censorship, I doubt a large number of chinese students would rush back to china.

If oyinbos are all smart, why is it that they themselves acknowledge that Asians are the smartest?

Really?

a smart student in the US will thrive at Tufts or UCLA just as much as at MIT. which is why you can't objectively say MIT is a better school than Tufts or UCLA.
in india on the other hand, maybe IIT is the only good school they have or one of the very few. and it won't be fair to compare two continents based on just a few schools. we should consider the whole education system.

Well articulated. In the US for the top 30+ schools the difference in student body is not that extreme like in other countries. Thats why its common for people to say- "I have met someone from Harvard and they are not that smart" probably because the expect some demigod lol.

Also IMO, anyone can be taught to be smart at school. You just need to go to class, take notes, cram and sit exams- pretty simple. Everything can be taught lol. I had a lot of asian friends in my undergrad and they were extremely competitive but not really booksmart. Infact most of them who studied the humanities [b]struggled [/b]academically and got Cs in philosophy, english, history or government classes but were academic studs in economics, science and math.

I have to say though Davidif is quite correct in that you should spend money on going to an asian school as opposed to a second tier or third tier US or UK school if you are interested in academics. Money is always a big issue to Nigerians studying abroad and you have to dumb down your standards when picking schools because of costs. Usually its either you win a scholarship to a top school in the US in which the competition is intense and you have to be one of the best in your country or you pay for a public second tier school if your parents are not wealthy. The UK is no different where fees are exorbitant. It would be better though to study at NUS than London South bank or East Oklahoma University.

However, I think some of these asian schools are pretty pricey as well

sorry for not coming to this earlier. I was too caught up in the world cup.

SEFAGO:

I have to say though Davidif is quite correct in that you should spend money on going to an asian school as opposed to a second tier or third tier US or UK school if you are interested in academics. Money is always a big issue to Nigerians studying abroad and you have to dumb down your standards when picking schools because of costs. Usually its either you win a scholarship to a top school in the US in which the competition is intense and you have to be one of the best in your country or you pay for a public second tier school if your parents are not wealthy. The UK is no different where fees are exorbitant. It would be better though to study at NUS than London South bank or East Oklahoma University.

That's what i am saying, that instead of Nigerians finding there way over to less prestigious schools in America, England, Ghana; a third world country whose educational system still hasn't helped elevate it to developed country status or ending up in obscure regions like turkey, cyprus, greece, ukraine, poland and co. Why shouldn't this people look at the schools in israel, japan, china, india, malaysia, then when they want to go to grad school, they can come over to the U.S and co instead of wasting money going to Lee University or Cameron University and co.
I spoke to my friend who went to grad school in USC and he told me that he felt that he wasted his time doing undergrad at our school and that the kids coming from Asia were astoundingly brilliant that he had never EVER seen anything like it before. In fact, when it comes to software and co. this guys were on a whole different level. Don't also forget that IIT, IIM and Delhi University are not the only schools in India with brilliant student, there are several others.
I don't know about China but the smartest kids in India are no longer coming in droves as they used to because opportunities are opening up in India. Unless you are going to an Ivy league university in the US, going to a school like the, University of Kentucky, University of North Texas or Wayne State University. is not a good idea as there are several schools in Inda much better.

oyinda,
When i mean Asian i am talking about Asia as in including the middle east and that includes Israel also.

Why shouldn't this people look at the schools in israel, japan, china, india, malaysia, then when they want to go to grad school, they can come over to the U.S and co instead of wasting money going to Lee University or Cameron University and co.
I spoke to my friend who went to grad school in USC and he told me that he felt that he wasted his time doing undergrad at our school and that the kids coming from Asia were astoundingly brilliant that he had never EVER seen anything like it before

that's a good point. sounds like a good idea. but would seem like a pain
what about language barrier?

some of this countries have universities where the mode of instruction is english, especially malaysia. I don't know whether they speak any english in cyprus, turkey, ukraine, france and co. yet you find naija students there.

lol. true dat

oyinda.:

a smart student in the US will thrive at Tufts or UCLA just as much as at MIT. which is why you can't objectively say MIT is a better school than Tufts or UCLA.
in india on the other hand, maybe IIT is the only good school they have or one of the very few. and it won't be fair to compare two continents based on just a few schools. we should consider the whole education system.

My basis of comparison was based on the quality of students i see in grad school here in the US. The Asians dominate hands down and a lot of this guys do not come from the Bei DA's (Beijing University) and co. they come from the less popular schools and they do extremely well than the yanki students over here. This shows me that there school system is not as top heavy as you think it is.

you make a good point.
but[i] maybe[/i] these asian students that come to study in the US are at the top of their class in their respective countries?
many international students in d US are at the top of their class back home. which is why US accept them on scholarship. otherwise, it's because they are very wealthy.

This is very true- the best international students would end up in the US and they would trounce the average US student based on having taken the most rigorous course. At undergrad its even more competitive. In my former secondary school, I remembered two of the past best students who got 9A1 (straight As in WAEC) went to Washington University and Notre Dame based on scholarship and got rejected at several top universities. They would be better than the average WUSTl and ND student but they are not representative of the typical Nigerian student are they?

the US typically takes the best international students making sure they are close to top of their class, then take average domestic admits. Infact routinely in programs such as science, engineering and economics- American PhDs routinely lower standards to take domestic students because of a lack of qualified applicants. They are selecting the cream of the crop- not just best chinese but best everything.

I still hate it though that people assume the chinese are the only smart ethnic group.

According to a British-Australian economics Phd candidate that I’ve been talking to at Peking University (China’s equivalent of Oxbridge) all the really top students want to go the US to study. And they wouldn’t be seen dead in the UK.

For the very top Chinese students, who have succeeded in the toughest and most elitist selection programme in the world, to go to a British or Australian university, is she adds damningly, to “throw out the very elitism their genius had helped them attain.”

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peterfoster/100050574/why-british-universities-dont-attract-chinas-best/

And this is not just limited to Peking but several other institutions that u have stated such as Fudan, Dalian e.t.c

^ yea very true. not just asia but even africans.
i googled one of my african school mate's name (yea i'm a stalker) and apparently he was one of the top 5 students in some national exam.
so obviously, he will be smart in d US. lol he got a full scholarship to study here.

but compared to d african, european international student, the asian seems to be d smarter one though  and it's just because they study more and have no life. lol not that it's innate or anything.

oyinda.:

^ yea very true. not just asia but even africans.
i googled one of my african school mate's name (yea i'm a stalker) and apparently he was one of the top 5 students in some national exam.
so obviously, he will be smart in d US. lol he got a full scholarship to study here.

but compared to d african, european international student, the asian seems to be d smarter one though and it's just because they study more and have no life. lol not that it's innate or anything.

Just like me

not as bad as you. urs is just repulsive.

dayokanu:

Just like me

infact, mama-gee ur d biggest stalker of them all. how did u find dayokanu come here? ehn

oyinda.:

not as bad as you. urs is just repulsive.

Its loff na

oyinda.:

you make a good point.
but[i] maybe[/i] these asian students that come to study in the US are at the top of their class in their respective countries?
many international students in d US are at the top of their class back home. which is why US accept them on scholarship. otherwise, it's because they are very wealthy.

NOOOOOOOOOOOO, THAT IS WRONG. THAT'S ABSOLUTELY NOT WHAT I MEANT. What i meant is that the most unremarkable and average Asian Students come to grad school in the US and dominate. Students that can't get into , Kyoto university, IIT or BeiDA or worst of all are the middle-of-the-road students in the less prestigious schools come here and still dominate.

Obviously, oyinda, you are not a science grad student so you wouldn't know what i am talking about, because if you were in the sciences or engineering were there are lotss of Asians, you would know what i am talking about.

davidif:

NOOOOOOOOOOOO, THAT IS WRONG. THAT'S ABSOLUTELY NOT WHAT I MEANT. What i meant is that the most unremarkable and average Asian Students come to grad school in the US and dominate. Students that can't get into , Kyoto university, IIT or BeiDA or worst of all are the middle-of-the-road students in the less prestigious schools come here and still dominate.

Obviously, oyinda, you are not a science grad student so you wouldn't know what i am talking about, because if you were in the sciences or engineering were there are lotss of Asians, you would know what i am talking about.

i see ur point.
yea i'm not a science grad student. so what i say may only apply to undergrad i guess.

A very informative thread indeed When NairaLand was still NairaLand

now its a joke

Ugosample:
A very informative thread indeed
When NairaLand was still NairaLand


now its a joke

You are right my brother.