lolz

this hnd peeps are funny,they are just ranting and spewing nonsense...
polytecnics are dumping grounds for nigeria universites rejects...
u can rant on nairaland as u like,ur hnd will never match a b.sc

seeing wat some NL comment make me very mad... who told u polytechnics are inferior to a university,in terms of engineering university they learn work. To pass a course a university student just need an 'E' but in poly an average of 'C' to pass or Na carry over for u.
the OND programme is just for two years and if u fail a course just one Na extra year for u be that but for uni,una get from 1st year to final year to correct una errors except in some cases of serious F..
I've finished my 2yrs programme in poly and currently am on a direct entry in a universuty ...
In poly after finishing Ur OND u have to write exam again to enter HND by which if u fail u go wait till d next year,but for uni once u enter u don enter...
BOTTOM LINE: if u've eva bin to a poly before university na go Easy for u as Bleep...
Am A Testament to That Fact!!

gbengress1: After running through several posts on this topic, some things were crystal clear;
1. The Op is an HND holder
2.HND holders majorly base their arguments on US standards and informal statistics.
Now to my contribution, it is rather unfortunate that most people just jump into illogical conclusions that polytechnic graduates perform better in ICAN and other accounting related professional exams without any official statistics.
For your information, best students in the university are mostly chartered before the completion 4year programmes in the university.
More so, most of you always give much credence to YABATECH accounting graduates to the extent of even saying they are better than university graduates. YABATECH students can testify to the fact that they have hosted two consecutive accounting competitions involving polytechnics and universities which universities have always emerged as the winner. The most funniest part of it is that, the top 3 schools in the competitions were always universities.
During my days in the uni, polytechnic school has never emerge as the winner of any accounting quiz competition.

Well maybe there are no official statistics, but inferences are drawn from tutorial centres where polytechnic student perform better.
As regards quiz competition, yabatech never took first position in all 3 I experienced, but they were 2nd once and the others they came 3rd. Only unilag and OAU faired better. The contestants from unilag where mostly OND holders who were also PE students, some where even chartered. The funny thing is for NUASA quiz completion, unilag will not put the best students (based on CGPA) in the dpt to represent, you have to be an ICAN or ACCA student (and most of them already had their ONDs). I also think Ife does the same thing too.

akinz4u: seeing wat some NL comment make me very mad... who told u polytechnics are inferior to a university,in terms of engineering university they learn work. To pass a course a university student just need an 'E' but in poly an average of 'C' to pass or Na carry over for u.
the OND programme is just for two years and if u fail a course just one Na extra year for u be that but for uni,una get from 1st year to final year to correct una errors except in some cases of serious F..
I've finished my 2yrs programme in poly and currently am on a direct entry in a universuty ...
In poly after finishing Ur OND u have to write exam again to enter HND by which if u fail u go wait till d next year,but for uni once u enter u don enter...
BOTTOM LINE: if u've eva bin to a poly before university na go Easy for u as Bleep...
Am A Testament to That Fact!!

lol..
so d nonsense above makes hnd equal to b.sc abi?

aydrees09:

Very soon , they will start studying MEDICINE in Poly . They would be equal then

What about Law, Social Sciences, Arts and Humanities? You think its only Medicine that makes both institution different?

kennytidistar:

AND I'M ASKING YOU TOO
HAVE YOU HEARD OF NPA? NATIONAL POST DOCTORAL ASSOCIATION, THE MEMBERS THAT SET IT UP? BEFORE USA ATTEMPT TO INCORPORATE IT INTO THE ACADEMIC SYSTEM, YOU NEED TO CONDUCT EXTENSIVE RESEARCH ON IT EVOLUTION. THANKS.

AND SHOULD IN CASE YOU ARE INTERESTED IN CONTACTING NPA

National Postdoctoral Association * 1200 New
York Avenue, NW, Suite 610 * Washington, DC
20005
Phone: 202.326.6424 * Fax: 202.371.9849

SO THE FACT THAT I SAID PHD IS ALL YOU NEED, DOES NOT MEAN I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT I WROTE TEACH IN THE UNIVERSITY AND CHOP YOUR PROF, STOP WORRYING YOURSELF, I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT

Thank God for google!

dejt4u:
let me tell u what probably u didnt knw about university education in Nigeria...
As a university graduate, u are bound to be versatile i.e u will nt be restricted to ur dept or faculty alone.. If u are a science student, u will tak some courses outside ur faculty be it admin, social science, art, tech etc weda as core courses, free electives, special electives or restricted electives.. So it makes dem more versatile dan ppl from other higher institutions..that is what i meant by revision of poly's curriculum..
Although, those wit OND or HND are very good in practicals even better than uni graduates especially in engineering... I hope u get me better now

Pls b informed dat just as d university student are versatile with their electives courses, so d polytechnic students are exposed to borrowed courses from oda departments which dey must pass.

Nigeria and mentality tho.

Olril18:
lol..
so d nonsense above makes hnd equal to b.sc abi?

Get my point non should be superior poly&uni shouldn't be a competition but a team because we all need each oda in order to move this country forward

Amuche Jane: very correct. We have ppl with Bsc that can't even read or write well. When you get to NYSC camp, check the educated illiterate there and see that they are almost uni product. The man thing in life is to know what you are doing well. I no a guy with ND that went for his IT in one company and they refuse him going because he is good. That guy has built a house and has a car, by now he should be through with his part-time program. My younger brother finished his ND in PTI (marketing) but a final year student from UNN could not defeat him. No be Bsc holders dey ride bike and keke?where u see the job self. My own be say, be good at which ever course you are studying, uni or poly. What will be will be, just focus.

.
What do you expect when your labour is cheap! Please stop this inferiority complex. You cant be equal. How can you be equal with a Specialist/professional? Who taught you in the polytechnic? are they Polytechnic graduate lecturers? Why dont polytechnics employ their graduates to lecture them?

they are not the same because a university is different from a polytechnic.

akinz4u: seeing wat some NL comment make me very mad... who told u polytechnics are inferior to a university,in terms of engineering university they learn work. To pass a course a university student just need an 'E' but in poly an average of 'C' to pass or Na carry over for u.
the OND programme is just for two years and if u fail a course just one Na extra year for u be that but for uni,una get from 1st year to final year to correct una errors except in some cases of serious F..
I've finished my 2yrs programme in poly and currently am on a direct entry in a universuty ...
In poly after finishing Ur OND u have to write exam again to enter HND by which if u fail u go wait till d next year,but for uni once u enter u don enter...
BOTTOM LINE: if u've eva bin to a poly before university na go Easy for u as Bleep...
Am A Testament to That Fact!!

ure really deluded, as if uve forgottern ur 'C' is nt worthy of 'E', or have u forgotten poly's have 'A, AB,B,BC etc' which u can't find in the uni

akinz4u: seeing wat some NL comment make me very mad... who told u polytechnics are inferior to a university,in terms of engineering university they learn work. To pass a course a university student just need an 'E' but in poly an average of 'C' to pass or Na carry over for u.
the OND programme is just for two years and if u fail a course just one Na extra year for u be that but for uni,una get from 1st year to final year to correct una errors except in some cases of serious F..
I've finished my 2yrs programme in poly and currently am on a direct entry in a universuty ...
In poly after finishing Ur OND u have to write exam again to enter HND by which if u fail u go wait till d next year,but for uni once u enter u don enter...
BOTTOM LINE: if u've eva bin to a poly before university na go Easy for u as Bleep...
Am A Testament to That Fact!!

Lol!!! You made me laugh!! Who told you once you carry over in ur final year in uni, yu won't get xtra year?

See, hear and know this!! OND is just 4 semesters!! Come to university and come and build your CGPA for 10 semesters and you will knw what's up!! You don't need to do DE, go n do HND

FUNAAB DE into civil engineering no be beans!! The schl admitted only first class HND into 200lvl.. After OND, IT, HND, den yu go back to 200lvl n spend 4 years... Wasted time!!

akinz4u: seeing wat some NL comment make me very mad... who told u polytechnics are inferior to a university,in terms of engineering university they learn work. To pass a course a university student just need an 'E' but in poly an average of 'C' to pass or Na carry over for u.
the OND programme is just for two years and if u fail a course just one Na extra year for u be that but for uni,una get from 1st year to final year to correct una errors except in some cases of serious F..
I've finished my 2yrs programme in poly and currently am on a direct entry in a universuty ...
In poly after finishing Ur OND u have to write exam again to enter HND by which if u fail u go wait till d next year,but for uni once u enter u don enter...
BOTTOM LINE: if u've eva bin to a poly before university na go Easy for u as Bleep...
Am A Testament to That Fact!!

U ar dumb...so if they are dsame y did u apply fou uni and given 200l fo dat matter?

eddieo: .
What do you expect when your labour is cheap! Please stop this inferiority complex. You cant be equal. How can you be equal with a Specialist/professional? Who taught you in the polytechnic? are they Polytechnic graduate lecturers? Why dont polytechnics employ their graduates to lecture them?

who told u they dont employ their graduates? Its only a foolish man dat'll av a BSc or HND and say he wants to bcom a lecturer. Serious lecturers begin with MSc (with so many professional certificates). With ur MSc, u cn lecture anywhr regardless of where u began (either hnd or bsc).

lastpage: Let me "chip-in" on this arguement:

EQUALITY and EQUIVALENCE?
Equality means "same".
Equivalence means you can substitute one for the other.

So, w.r.t. HND and B.Sc, can you "substitute" an HND graduate (same discipline) to do the work of a B.Sc graduate? (l like the Airforce Squadron Leader Vs. Army major analogy! )
The answer is a big NO. I will justify that position shortly.

As regards "equality" we can look at it/analyse it from the perspective of "equality of all academic processes leading to the award of both degrees":

1.) Instructors: Since it is the "lecturers" that create the eventual HND/BSc degree holders through 'teaching', l consider the "quality of the instructors", most important, in such scenario.
Now, in Universities, a Doctorate Degree holder is a "junior lecturer". Most substantive lecturers are either long-term PhD holders or Professors.
In a Polytechnic, most lecturers are Masters degree holders, the very few PhD holders amongst them are either Rectors or Departmental Heads. Professors are very very rare, if you would find one at all!
So, in terms of quality of lecturers, Polys are way behind and are not equal to Universities and therefore CANNOT BE EQUIVALENT!

2.) Infrastructures: You need "physical structures" to create a conducive learning environment for optimum learning. I wont say much on this, just go around our "major" Universities and Polys and you would not waste time to conclude that the "product of such environments" can ever be equal nor equivalent.

3.) Curriculum design: This is another very important difference between Universities and Polys.
For a "complete product life-cycle", you need DESIGNERS AND MANUFACTURERS.
These two stages of a product are completely different.
Uni graduates are geared/trained for "design" purposes while Poly graduates are geared for manufacturing purposes and this is reflected in their curriculum. I will give at least two examples to buttress this.

Take a vehicle for example. Most University "Engineering" lecturers cannot even service their own vehicle (they take them to artisans/mechanics! ). Why is this? The reason is that their training is based on "Design concept". It is theoretically based for "research and development" .... all theoretical!
Practical experience is limited but this is deliberate and "advancement in science" is based squarely on research, which is what a University graduate is trained for.
A Poly graduate of the same field on the other hand, is trained for "manufacture" of the product designed by his University counterpart. He is very much "practical oriented" and does the "dirty job"! Where and while his University counterpart cannot "convert research" into "real life product", he is able to bring such design concept to life through "physical actions".
He can go under the hood and repair that same vehicle his Uni counterpart cannot repair .... but he cant design the same vehicle or improve on the design, to produce newer and more efficient model, like his Uni counterpart can easily do.

But at the end of the day, both Uni Graduates and Poly graduates are (supposed to be) doing a COMPLEMENTARY ROLE in the business environment.

Another example is that of the building occupation.
A University trained Architect will design a building or project but he does not necessarily need to know how to hold a spade or trowel.
His emphasis is on structural stability, aesthetics, functionality, wind tunnel-testing and adjustment, e.t.c.
Having done his design on paper, he passes the work unto his Poly counterpart.

His Poly mate will now take that "paper design" and make a "real building" out of it by bringing blocks, mortars and iron into a combination that springs-up a building. A Poly graduate cant actually do the design and where he attempts it, it is always very poor.

Now, l guess l wont be the only one who had noticed the difference in "finesse" between a Poly graduate and a University graduate?
It is because you cant expect someone who was trained with "practical" in mind, to be equivalent or the same as someone who was trained with "theory" in mind.
Even their spoken English would easily give them out as l have had reason over the years to interview both graduates at various levels of employment and l can tell you, spoken English is the first thing that gives them out.

I appreciate both of them and will never substitute a University graduate (no matter how good he thinks he is) for jobs/positions that l know are best suited for a Poly graduate ... and vice versa.
Their roles are COMPLEMENTARY, not equal and not equivalent.

Lastpage!

Caveat: I hold multiple higher-level degrees from "University" but l try not to be biased.

Chai, this guy don finish everything. Thanks for this incisive explanation on what both programs entails.
@op, i have been following this thread and carefully read all the comments from various NL, especially Destino, zebra(op) etc. You guys hit d nail on d head with regards to the angle you are coming from. Zebra, you feel there is a standard international organization (wes) that compares and determines equality and equivalence of educational institutions which most top universities abide or follow with regards their rating methods.
Destino, you make good points on what is obtainable in Naija and based ur arguments on engineering disciplines which ucould if not almost be logically applied to other disciplines.
I singled out the both of you cos most other comments will find a place in your arguments.
Lastpage, (God bless this guy) fully dealt with this piece and explained what and where both should be placed. None is inferior to the other and require each other to function. Some one thought of the computer and the Internet and some other person made it come through

som of u wit ur degree can't even defend it.go read engineering4poly u'll kno is nt a joke.bside I've hnd&working wit a pay of 1.2million a month. I'm just 26yrs old

destino24:

Bro, ideally, if you graduate an engineer from a university, you'll be given a B. Eng not a B. Sc.

That said, a food engineer was given. ..
B. Eng = Bachelors of Engineering in Food Engineering

OR

B. Tech = Bachelors of Technology in Food Engineering.

They are not the same thing

The discrimination between the Bsc and HND dosnt mean that HND is inferior to Bsc. It is only a matter of names. Have u wandered why both of them are placed in d same cadre and salary levels in higher institutions? It is just a name factor. Nothing to do with quality or proficiency. I have been a student of both.

jasperkrekre: bsc alone= HND+pgd

anochuko01:
who told u they dont employ their graduates? Its only a foolish man dat'll av a BSc or HND and say he wants to bcom a lecturer. Serious lecturers begin with MSc (with so many professional certificates). With ur MSc, u cn lecture anywhr regardless of where u began (either hnd or bsc).

Hey stop that!! You can't lecture in a university if u av HND - masters...its Degree - MSc ......

rckdude:

Well maybe there are no official statistics, but inferences are drawn from tutorial centres where polytechnic student perform better.
As regards quiz competition, yabatech never took first position in all 3 I experienced, but they were 2nd once and the others they came 3rd. Only unilag and OAU faired better. The contestants from unilag where mostly OND holders who were also PE students, some where even chartered. The funny thing is for NUASA quiz completion, unilag will not put the best students (based on CGPA) in the dpt to represent, you have to be an ICAN or ACCA student (and most of them already had their ONDs). I also think Ife does the same thing too.

You would notice i left this debate for a while now. The same sentiments potrayed on this thread is what i can't put up with. Some folks don't even know where they stand, others can't comprehend what they want exactly.

This is coming from both sides, but i would address the one i'm most opposed to. As i said earlier, The major i've problem with HND folks is the way they go about proving their equality or, their certificates equivalence with that of Bsc holders. You don't belittle one entity, just to uplift yours. This is exactly their bane of engagement. It explains the negative and popular circulated opinions of Bsc holders being not exposed to praticals, halfbaked, less intelligent than HND holders etc.

They also err a lot when they try using foreign tendencies to justify their equality, leaving out the things that should be said to explain that, stating only what favours them in the argument.

Now, we know all these are over rated lies, half truths and hear-says. People choose what they wana believe, they hear what they wana hear.

If i go on engaging some statements here, they would be swift to label me a HND hater.

They should come with clean hands first.


BTW, i'm still open to decent debates.

pembisco: Hehe, diz poly peeps de mek me laf oh. I'm medical lab science student of a uni, imagine telin me my cert is same wit sm1 studyin lab science tech in a poly. Haba na, wen i de do courses lyk anatomy, biochem, histopathology ,chempathology, heamatology, pharmacology, medical microbiology, immunology, biomedical ethics, physiology whly them they do secndry scl chemistry,biology nd physics u wan compare me wit them? Dts nt fair.
Dnt evn talk abt prctical cos SLT knw natin. A poly peep was tryin to prove to he knws modan me. I jst askd him d name of d vein he collects blood sample frm nd he was confused. Those of u sayin d mst impotant tin is prctical nd nt theory ar knw natin. If u dnt knw ur theory then u dnt knw d implication of mekin mistakes in prctical. I askd a poly peep why do u store sample fo Random blood suger in glucose container nd nt EDTA container. He said ar dsame nd kn giv corect result. I was shockd, i had to explain to him dt in storing d sample in edta container, glycolysis wl occur because d edta container does nt hav an antiquagulant to prevent glycolysis (break dwn of glucose) thereby u wunt get d glucose level u ar lukin for. D guy was amazed nd dis smtin i was tot in part two in a uni. So guys, relax. Poly kn neva be same wit uni

allow them to keep dreaming. i really cant imagine how a HND graduate of Science Laboratory Technology Chemistry option is better than a BSc. Chemistry. what they studied is just an option implying a fraction mainly in preparation of chemicals which they still have to consult manuals to prepare while a graduate will tell what to combine in what proportion to prepare a chemical. i have looked at both course contents and i can say that the course content is no way half close to what is taught in the university including practical knowledge. I wonder if its not University Graduates that lecture in those polytechnics and they will still keep telling you they are better than than BSc holders. let them employ thier graduates to lecture them if they think they are very good like degree holders. im also a part time lecturer with a polytechnic too so i dont why the fuse.

rckdude:

What about Law, Social Sciences, Arts and Humanities? You think its only Medicine that makes both institution different?

I was only teasing , u did not get my point. The fact remains that Poly will always play second fiddle to Uni. Dont deceive urselves . Its d truth, start living with it.

Soyedele1: Well, a question for you.. Can a poly graduate do masters without passing tru PGD? My bro, uni n poly aint d same and will neva be d same.. We can argue further

. Bro U'r a University graduate and U dont understand simple English. Equivalent and Equal na dsame thing?? They are equivalent bt nt equal or dsame. I'm proud 2 b a Polytechnic Engineering graduate any day, any tym.

akinz4u: seeing wat some NL comment make me very mad... who told u polytechnics are inferior to a university,in terms of engineering university they learn work. To pass a course a university student just need an 'E' but in poly an average of 'C' to pass or Na carry over for u.
the OND programme is just for two years and if u fail a course just one Na extra year for u be that but for uni,una get from 1st year to final year to correct una errors except in some cases of serious F..
I've finished my 2yrs programme in poly and currently am on a direct entry in a universuty ...
In poly after finishing Ur OND u have to write exam again to enter HND by which if u fail u go wait till d next year,but for uni once u enter u don enter...
BOTTOM LINE: if u've eva bin to a poly before university na go Easy for u as Bleep...
Am A Testament to That Fact!!

Why did you later opt for a university degree? You should have just remained there. My friend the only advantage you have is that you already have an experience in a higher institution before coming to the university to meet classmates that either have bad OR good CGPA's while you come in fresh at 200 level to start building your own from the scratch after you've learnt from their lessons.

Megaflex: . Bro U'r a University graduate and U dont understand simple English. Equivalent and Equal na dsame thing?? They are equivalent bt nt equal or dsame. I'm proud 2 b a Polytechnic Engineering graduate any day, any tym.

I thought as much ..IF you want to go into lecturing especially in the university system, You will know the worth of your HND sir but for now, keeping enjoying your HND and I wish you the best in life sir

Pls sir do not confuse us with d definitions of equivalent and equality. They are the same thing, explains same thing and does not in any way denote inferiority or superiority.
Equivalent means equal, as in value, force or meaning, having similar or identical effect

eddieo:
allow them to keep dreaming. i really cant imagine how a HND graduate of Science Laboratory Technology Chemistry option is better than a BSc. Chemistry. what they studied is just an option implying a fraction mainly in preparation of chemicals which they still have to consult manuals to prepare while a graduate will tell what to combine in what proportion to prepare a chemical. i have looked at both course contents and i can say that the course content is no way half close to what is taught in the university including practical knowledge. I wonder if its not University Graduates that lecture in those polytechnics and they will still keep telling you they are better than than BSc holders. let them employ thier graduates to lecture them if they think they are very good like degree holders. im also a part time lecturer with a polytechnic too so i dont why the fuse.

Don't mind them.. SLTs dnt evn do anytin abt blood, or any other sample throughout their years of study woo. Ol they do is titration that I dit in my ss3, mixin hcl and water etc hehehehehe sm studying diploma in law deh claim barr. Sef Lol if u see them For campus they dress in black and white modan d Bsc law students sef, lol again. Is there any course in poly wher its name end with ...logy? Abeg I wan know

Olugbenger:

You would notice i left this debate for a while now. The same sentiments potrayed on this thread is what i can't put up with. Some folks don't even know where they stand, others can't comprehend what they want exactly.

This is coming from both sides, but i would address the one i'm most opposed to. As i said earlier, The major i've problem with HND folks is the way they go about proving their equality or, their certificates equivalence with that of Bsc holders. You don't belittle one entity, just to uplift yours. This is exactly their bane of engagement. It explains the negative and popular circulated opinions of Bsc holders being not exposed to praticals, halfbaked, less intelligent than HND holders etc.

They also err a lot when they try using foreign tendencies to justify their equality, leaving out the things that should be said to explain that, stating only what favours them in the argument.

Now, we know all these are over rated lies, half truths and hear-says. People choose what they wana believe, they hear what they wana hear.

If i go on engaging some statements here, they would be swift to label me a HND hater.

They should come with clean hands first.


BTW, i'm still open to decent debates.

I know where I stand. I believe HND is equivalent to B.sc in Accounting. I have mingled and acquainted myself with both parties and I saw no intellectual imbalance. And if you ask around besides audit firms and banks, what employers want is an HND or B.sc in Accounting plus a professional certificate.

I know little about engineering where I think the champions for and against the issue on his thread are from.

But there are no professional exams in Accounting (ICAN, CITN, ACCA and CIMA) where a B.sc holder gets a better exemption than and HND holder. They both start from the same level.
Accounting deals more in practical where you will actually prepare financial statements, management accounts, prepare taxable profits and tax returns. Although in my final year we did business policy ( to prepare us for managerial positions) which I am not sure polytechnics do.

In conclusion, if an organisation were to engage me as an Accountant, whatever I can do as a B.sc holder I expect an HND holder to be able to discharge the same responsibility as an Accountant.

rckdude:

I know where I stand. I believe HND is equivalent to B.sc in Accounting. I have mingled and acquainted myself with both parties and I saw no intellectual imbalance. And if you ask around besides audit firms and banks, what employers want is an HND or B.sc in Accounting plus a professional certificate.

I agree this is true to an extent.

I know little about engineering where I think the champions for and against the issue on his thread are from.

But there are no professional exams in Accounting (ICAN, CITN, ACCA and CIMA) where a B.sc holder gets a better exemption than and HND holder. They both start from the same level.
Accounting deals more in practical where you will actually prepare financial statements, management accounts, prepare taxable profits and tax returns. Although in my final year we did business policy ( to prepare us for managerial positions) which I am not sure polytechnics do.

In conclusion, if an organisation were to engage me as an Accountant, whatever I can do as a B.sc holder I expect an HND holder to be able to discharge the same responsibility as an Accountant.

Now, you are being objective. I think it dffers in profession etc.

A recognized professional body, ICAN gives both degree holders the same preference and we agree both degrees are equal in that respect, right?



Now we have recognized engineering bodies or in institutions, NSE & COREN giving special or higher preference to University Engineering graduates over HND holders. Now would the HND folks agree with this one?


It's the same reason most of the HND holders on this thread, claim to have Bsc certificates in addition.


This shameful act, hypocrisy is what i can't stand.

aydrees09:
I was only teasing , u did not get my point. The fact remains that Poly will always play second fiddle to Uni. Dont deceive urselves . Its d truth, start living with it.

if numbers of course offered is anything to go by, what then will you say of a school like AAUA that doesnt offer ANY engineering course let alone medcine and law?

anochuko01:
if numbers of course offered is anything to go by, what then will you say of a school like AAUA that doesnt offer ANY engineering course let alone medcine and law?

Do you want me to start listing the worst set of polythenics?