phantomm: stop spreading lies.radiographers are what they are. they image the body and the doctor interpretes.what basic medical knowledge do they have to interpreted films or CTS? they badically photographers.keep decieving Nigerians so that you can start killing them one by one. a radiographer at image diagnostics in PH interpreted my chest xray as normal not knowing I was a radiologist. I had a pleuritic chest pain and fever yet my xray was normal. meanwhile there was a subtle consolidation at my right lung base. imagine how many people this dude had killed with his 'normal' xrays. funny.

Like I said, any other person in the health sector who is not a doctor is an Artisan comparable to Mechanics and bricklayers. I don talk my own. This rubbish of comparison should just stop. There's no basis for it. So annoyingly annoying!

FD_enigma: An Analysis of JOHESU (cont'd):

Medical Laboratory Scientists (Technologists?)

These are the arrow-heads of JOHESU. As a group, they have the free time, the resources and the lack of professionalism and empathy for suffering patients needed to start this controversy.

These staff are usually not university trained as their programmes are run by accredited teaching hospitals. They obtain memberships and fellowships of the institutes of Laboratory Science(or Technology) allowing them to work in Pathology laboratories.

Virtually all of these folks had the ambition of being medical doctors but could not meet the requirements.

In better countries than Nigeria, laboratories are headed by research scientists (in research institutes) and by consultant pathologists (in hospitals). Research scientists are typically Ph.D holders while consultant pathologists are medical doctors with postgraduate specializations in Pathology.

In Nigeria, they are quick to claim they do all the work in the laboratories o government hospitals. In their private practices, most masquerade as doctors, prescribing antibiotics and other drugs after spurious "Typhoid" tests.

Having grown wings, they fired the first salvo by declaring their right to perform accreditation for all labs in Nigeria including side-labs in private hospitals.

The next issue was preventing resident doctors in training from accessing the labs to carry out procedure (yet they claim they do all the work).

It got to the point, doctors were physically harassed and hounded by the Police and SSS on the instigation of these technologists. Luckily, most security agencies quickly washed their hands off this matter.

Nigeria is not the only country running a teaching hospital system. Let's look at the successful models in other countries and make things work. We shouldn't persons without direct involvement in patient care add to the many problems already facing our healthcare system.

Lolll, because you spent few weeks in your 200L physiology lab class doesn't make you superior to someone who spent 5 solid years in the field.
BMLS (Bachelor Degree in Medical Laboratory Science) is widely recognised all over the world.



Stop feeding the public with lies

Acidosis:

A Pharmacist is an Artisan? You put food on the table of Pharmacists?

I have to exit this thread, before illiterates dump their ignorance on me...

please do.I respect your views in the politics section but on this issue, your reasoning has been particularly abysmal and quite embarrassing. akin to a well suited banker playing with kids in the mud. shameful if you ask me.

i am a surgeon. i think there are ways the government can stop this johesu vs doctors nonsense:
1. fully privatize the health sector. then, the nurses, physios and lab guys can expect to be paid and treated same as the doctor. funny enough, as a surgeon, these nurses sometimes call me to do some hernia and small surgeries in their "shops". they do not pay me the same as the nurses they use.
2. privatize all the most easily privatizable parts of the hospital, which are the labs and pharmacies, and replace the rest with short term renewable contract jobs, maybe every three years.
3. declare an emergency in the sector, go abroad and bring another country'S health system, like india, china or malaysia, and impose it on the sector. govt should impose everything,including qualifications, relative pay, carrer paths. then wield the bigstick on ANYONE that as amuch as whimpers thereafter.
personally, i think the first will be most effective, as govt is too weak to resist the mushroom unions.some people belong to 3 or 4.

Acidosis:

You are an illiterate.

A University Bursar/Accountant, Reigistrar and Librarian all belong to NASU.
They are bosses in their fields already..

Lol, like an average "literate" Nigerian who thinks NASU is all about gate keepers, carpenters etc

A Burser, Librarian, etc will never be VC! Yet nothing prevents them from becoming chief accountant, chief Librabrian, etc.

We have the Chief Nursing Officer, etc. Nobody prevents them from becoming that.....but not the Chief Medical Director.

It's sad for the level of misinformation hatred and deciet johesu are embarking on all because of their immediate selfish interest ,if you look at it deeper most of them are product of failed ambition of becoming a medical doctor , presently most still desired and prayed their children to be doctor, myopically for them if they eventually become one they could meet a destroyed health sector headed by a cleaner , May God Almighty forbid that day .

Every member of the hospital is as important as the other and while patient management is a team work....the main issue in Nigeria is the new shout of 'international best practice'[b][/b]
Ask half the people shouting for it and they'll tell you half the stuff they read online and forget the other important half which is the cohesive way people work in developed countries.
A look at the Nigerian setting will tell you that what the govt need is a round table discussion to spell out job description first and get a relative salary scale.
Medicine and Pharmacy have always been the courses that science students always aspire to do and while they're both tedious and stressful..the issue of no job description has reduced it to squabbles.
The Doctor still remains the only form of contact between the patient and ALL other health workers be it the Lab Scientist, Pharmacist, Radiologist and whoever and that explains the ease with which a strike by the Doctors brings the hospital to a halt.
Aside Medicine, Nursing and Pharmacy, all other professions are allied health facilities put in place to further promote the work of the core allied health workers.
A Lab Scientist aspiring to be a Medical Director in a Hospital is quite grating to the ears not to talk of a radiographer. The Pharmacist and the real professional nurses have allowed their unions to be used by people with lesser qualifications to foster their unholy request and i can say with all certainty that grant Johesu whatever it is they want and in 3 years, they'll bring down the health sector with intra union fighting
Nurses with B.Sc are already being discriminated by the old Diploma nurses.
Nothing international works in Nigeria without an enabling environment and talking about international best practices is just a waste of time.
JOB DESCRIPTION and RELATIVITY are more important than all these issues of Consultancy
Ask the UK NHS why most hospitals are reverting back to Doctors as MD after their sojourn with Public Health Administrators

Acidosis:

You are an illiterate.

A University Bursar/Accountant, Reigistrar and Librarian all belong to NASU.
They are bosses in their fields already..

Lol, like an average "literate" Nigerian who thinks NASU is all about gate keepers, carpenters etc

So why don't members of N'ASU contest for the post of VC? Going by your reasoning!

Acidosis:

Lolll, because you spent few weeks in your 200L physiology lab class doesn't make you superior to someone who spent 5 solid years in the field.
BMLS (Bachelor Degree in Medical Laboratory Science) is widely recognised all over the world.



Stop feeding the public with lies

Have you had any reason to rub minds with any graduates from these courses? You'll be baffled at their level of knowledge. This is not say that you won't find same for other professions but ......talk to a Pharmacist, talk to a Doctor...talk to an Engineer then talk to your average Lab Scientist with an internet enabled phone in your hand and ask some few questions about what he knows....you'll be amazed about how shallow their knowledge base is.
Knowing why is more important than knowing how.....its good to know that Mixing this and this turns the color to red but its more important to know why the colors become that and that's what they don't really know aside the really well read ones who are the ones up there agitating for them

Well as d saying goes, wen two elephants fight, d grass suffers. D patients r d ones bearing the brunt of this whole saga. I'l make my few points from the knowlegde I have:
1. Whenever a patient comes to the hospital, it is to see a doctor. Just as you go to a chamber to see a lawyer when you av a case in the court.
2. The position of the Chief Medical Director being opened to every health worker, is like saying a paralegal (whose job is very critical to a lawyers success) should now represent clients in court or become a chief jugde.
3. Normally, if you are not a medical Doctor, you can't be the Chief Medical Director of a Hopsital in d private sector. Why does it have to be different in the Govt. owned hospitals.
4. The fact remains that what is hunting us today is a decade long standing and deep rooted lack of cooperation between health workers and doctors. Am sure when a lab scientist is sick he doesn't go consulting a lab scientist, he goes to consult a specialist doctor. Let us tell ourselves the truth in this country for once.
5. D call for administrators is perfectly okay as it would help stabilise administrative issues which speaking frankly, some doctors might not be well predisposed to handling as d grilling mill of medical training doesn't allow u time to learn mgt.
6. If u've been to the hospital lately, you'l notice how the nurses "takes care of patients" which is actually the crux of their training and calling. Enough said.

I have been following this rivalry btw Doctors and other health workers with keen interest.
We cant run our health sectors in 'Nigeria-own-ways',orthodous medicine practice started/originated somewhr and we cant do bt follow wht are obtainable in these developed countries.Why politicizing this sensitive issue?
Govt must have its policies in health sector and anybody who cant abide by the policies shd resign his/her appointment or shd not even seek for such employment in the first instance.
SOLUTION:international best medical practice shd be introduced.

The "Pride that goes before the Fall" has finally caught up with NMA, MDCAN and NARD. Surelly dere's a TIME for everything under the "SUN" to happen. Their years of DECAY and CORRUPT PRACTICES have come to an END.

Emulti:

Radiographers interprete xrays and d lab scientists interprete their reports. The doctors want to keep on heading the departments to feel relevant in every sector.

false, u don't report anything.
And I ain't taking anything reported by a radiographer, u guys are not trained the way radiologists are

phantomm: @ the bolded. i hope you know that radiographers are the ones who 'photograph' the patients.the radiologists who are the doctors in that department interprete the results..
in the labs ,the lab technologists do the bench work or test the samples.the onus still lies on the pathologist who is a doctor to ratify the results.
my brother these allied professionals are attaching undue importance to themselves.they are not that important.

are you important.? For this your statement, God will continue to punish you!!!

vicenzo:

You represent everything wrong with JOHESU. You are too emotional and greedy and lazy. You are not a medic,but you want to see yourself as an equal to medics and be treated as a medic, you want to reap where you didn't sow.


Don't you know that all fingers can never be equal? You were too impatient to wait and gain admission into an MBBS programme, you rushed into physiotherapy and now you wonder why you are not being treated like a medic.


Your case is like that of a councillor wondering why he is not treated like a Governor, why he isn't addressed as 'his excellency', why the Governor should look down on him. He and the Governor should be equal and addressed as 'his excellency' he reasoned,after all they were both democratically elected by the people,and passed through the same stress of campaigning and election.


He conveniently forgot the fact that he had the choice of picking a form for the post of the Governor, he knew the roles and powers a Governor wields over a councillor, but he still chose to be a Councillor anyway, hoping to be a Councillor,and still somehow get to be treated as the Governor. And when this doesn't happen he gets emotional, paints the Governor as a dictator who looks down on him, who doesn't want his progress.

Succint and to the point! Kudos bro

phantomm: @ the bolded. i hope you know that radiographers are the ones who 'photograph' the patients.the radiologists who are the doctors in that department interprete the results..
in the labs ,the lab technologists do the bench work or test the samples.the onus still lies on the pathologist who is a doctor to ratify the results.
my brother these allied professionals are attaching undue importance to themselves.they are not that important.

if the scientist that do the work bench didn't produce any results what will pathologist ratify, if the radiographer didn't do the "photo" what will the radiologists interprete, we r all professionals in our various field. tell me what is so spectacular about medicine, u chose to study medicine, everybody chooses his or her field. Doctors are not gods.

Pls,be guided.
NMA is the boss.
No sick patient goes to the hospital to see a Lab Technician.

Lmao, illiterates as doctors. only in Nigeria will a doctor believes all science students wanted to read medicine. truly folks, we are a failed state. no hope.

Hmmmm...

Everybody is going hay-wire!

Okay.

Good thing, i don't refer to those agbero's on white as doctors, i refer to them as either clinician or physician. Anybody can be a doctor, so long as you have your Ph.D...

humnsikan:

If the pathologists and radiologist are that all-rounded, they should obtain the samples and analyse same, strictly adhering to standard procedures, and I bet they'd start crying. Look here, we the masses have tolerated these doctors enough.

I still do not understand where Nigerian doctors got this mentality from. They are totally not in tune with international best practices in healthcare. They are yet to see that healthcare delivery is a team work and the patient the focus of the team, hence, their constant resistance to the progress of members of the team, which is to the detriment of the patient.

Let me ask you: can you mention just one treatment or preventive procedure in the hospital that does not utilize a product of a pharmacueutical company before, during or after such procedure? Who the hell are you to say that the role of experts in such products, i.e, pharmacists, is unimportant, when you and I know that everything in the hospital, at the end of the day, boils down to drips, disinfectants, medications, etc? Why do you say that nurses are not an integral part of the healthcare delivery and that their role is equally unimportant? I feel the doctors are afraid that with recent developments in the healthcare sector, which they have, till now, been running as their personal property, some of their fraudulent activities would not easily be covered up. So pls, next time, think with your cerebral cortex and not limbic system (At least I know some elementary medical terminologies, Lol).

What concerns cerebral cortex and limbic system......you just made a mess of yourself.

@lagusta, please in which specialty are you doing your residency?

Uncle odi: Pls,be guided.
NMA is the boss.
No sick patient goes to the hospital to see a Lab Technician.

point of correction lab scientist and not technician. You thought everybody went to school of health tech.? You've failed dude...

Jummy mine: i am a surgeon, and sincerely i am yet to meet a doctor who says the others who workin the health system are not important. the situation in nigeria is simply pathetic. we have developed a culture of not knowing our places, simply and short!
nowhere except nigeria does a patient call the nurse a doctor and she/he will not correct the patient!
its just like a traditional birth attendant that will not admit beijg diffrent from a nurse.
i workmin ife where some 8f he leaders, nay, creators of this johesu come from and know the way they run their issues. one of these creators even tried to get into amedical program in ghana!
The creation of johesu itself shows how critically essential the individual groups who formed it are.
they dare not strike alone, as nobodynwill know anything is happening, except perhaps the nurses. the physios, and this is not putting anydbody down, led by one of the national johesu hotheads, went on strike in ifefor 3 and a half months. even the ortho dept was running without hitches.
the pharmacists once tried it too, people just continued gtting their drugs fro outside as they used to do even when they were around.
As for the nurses, can anyone here actually claim honestly that serving food, serving drugs, geting the vital signs, makjng the beds and giving the patients a good psychological state are not doable by others? The nurses once went on strike for four months when i was in part 4. We got medical students and the relatives to fill in for the nurses. According to the study of the morbidiy and mortality that was carried out at ghe time, there was no diffrence! That is why when the nursesstrike, they have to lock up the equipment.
As for the kab guys, well, who wouldnt say yhey are essential? They however, and i know most of them know this, hopefully, are being largely replaced by automated systems. a million full blood counts can be run over a year by four lab guys! if automated systems are allowed (they obstruct its purchase and use in govt settings), at least three quarters of hem in the govt establishments wil be out of a job! note that i run e and u and abgs on my icu patients without seing any lab guy.
ALL I HAVE WRITTEN IS NOT WALLAHI TO DENIGRATE ANYBODY, but to point out why people should know their limits and act within it.

THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE TO GANG UP TOGETHER TO FIGHT THE DOCTORS ITSELF HAS SHOWN

All you have just written is incoherent. You stated that you are a surgeon, but you didn't write like one. I'm a chartered accountant and so not interested in all this your ego massage. Please write well next time and ensure your diction flows properly because you are not just addressing Nigerians but also the world.

Uncle odi: Pls,be guided.
NMA is the boss.
No sick patient goes to the hospital to see a Lab Technician.

MBBS is a first degree and so is BMLS and D.Pharm...

The herbalists have displaced the pharmacists and they cannot fight back, so they have come to fight the doctors. The real issues are:
1. Who should be leader in the health sector?
2. Should the conductor contest the sterring wheel with the driver?
3. Should the post of consultant which is reserved for 'specialist doctors' only be open to all health workers most of whom do not understand the basic life sciences?
Johesu was conceived in selfishness. This attitude more than anything else has been the bane of the health sector in Nigeria. To hell with them. In the military this would amount to coup attempt.

johnugwu:



All you have just written is incoherent. You stated that you are a surgeon, but you didn't write like one. I'm a chartered accountant and so not interested in all this your ego massage. Please write well next time because you are not just addressing Nigerians but also the world.

bros abeg nor mind that agbero masquerading as a surgeon!

phantomm: @ the bolded. i hope you know that radiographers are the ones who 'photograph' the patients.the radiologists who are the doctors in that department interprete the results..
in the labs ,the lab technologists do the bench work or test the samples.the onus still lies on the pathologist who is a doctor to ratify the results.
my brother these allied professionals are attaching undue importance to themselves.they are not that important.

Point of Correction. Anyone that assists in saving lives, even the cleaners ,is very important. "Not that important" my foot.

infolekan: Every member of the hospital is as important as the other and while patient management is a team work....the main issue in Nigeria is the new shout of 'international best practice'[b][/b]
Ask half the people shouting for it and they'll tell you half the stuff they read online and forget the other important half which is the cohesive way people work in developed countries.
A look at the Nigerian setting will tell you that what the govt need is a round table discussion to spell out job description first and get a relative salary scale.
Medicine and Pharmacy have always been the courses that science students always aspire to do and while they're both tedious and stressful..the issue of no job description has reduced it to squabbles.
The Doctor still remains the only form of contact between the patient and ALL other health workers be it the Lab Scientist, Pharmacist, Radiologist and whoever and that explains the ease with which a strike by the Doctors brings the hospital to a halt.
Aside Medicine, Nursing and Pharmacy, all other professions are allied health facilities put in place to further promote the work of the core allied health workers.
A Lab Scientist aspiring to be a Medical Director in a Hospital is quite grating to the ears not to talk of a radiographer. The Pharmacist and the real professional nurses have allowed their unions to be used by people with lesser qualifications to foster their unholy request and i can say with all certainty that grant Johesu whatever it is they want and in 3 years, they'll bring down the health sector with intra union fighting
Nurses with B.Sc are already being discriminated by the old Diploma nurses.
Nothing international works in Nigeria without an enabling environment and talking about international best practices is just a waste of time.
JOB DESCRIPTION and RELATIVITY are more important than all these issues of Consultancy
Ask the UK NHS why most hospitals are reverting back to Doctors as MD after their sojourn with Public Health Administrators

God bless you! grant johesu their demands and see them fall apart in 5years. they will get the doctors out then the Pharm. and nurses will turn on the others. johesu; a gathering of convenience. if they want to scatter the health care system, no problem.we will help them. one thing is for sure, by the time the war is over and the dust begins to settle, the doctor will be the one standing. by the time they destroy public healthcare, the patients and the allied health professionals will run to private healthcare. guess who is king there?

@phantom do u knw dt Dr Okechukwu Erondu of image diagnostics pH u mentioned dumped MBBS to study med radiography@ UNN. Do u knw Hw many docs he employed in his centre. U cited an exceptional case where a radiographer wrongly reported ur case to be a normal chest radiograph, u of all pple should knw dt even ur consultants r not immune to mistakes and who told u dt radiography is all abt x-ray nd CT(which u can't even handle) who Man's such modalities as MRI, radiotherapy, ultrasound, mammography, etc. Nobody is trying to take anybody's position bt 4 one to call a fellow team mate in d healthcare team "inferior nd unnecessary" as well as try to hinder his progress in his chosen field/profession is uncalled for nd unacceptable. Most(not all docs) r just being too egocentric. Long live JOHESU

Quelme: are you important.? For this your statement, God will continue to punish you!!!

buzz off. bleeding mosquito. see as you dey run mouth. fall ill and you will see no other person than a doctor. na your type dey make noise online. when you reach hospital see doctor you go humble.

Acidosis:

Lolll, because you spent few weeks in your 200L physiology lab class doesn't make you superior to someone who spent 5 solid years in the field.
BMLS (Bachelor Degree in Medical Laboratory Science) is widely recognised all over the world.



Stop feeding the public with lies

I hope u re aware dt d medical lab scientists re already pushing for d BMLS degree to be changed to DMLS (Doctor of Medical Laboratory Science).