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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Health / JOHESU Press Release on the NMA STRIKE (39684 Views)
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Re: JOHESU Press Release on the NMA STRIKE by Nobody: 12:55pm On Jul 03, 2014 |
FD_enigma: An Analysis of JOHESU (cont'd): I'll refer you all to the other thread. We already thrashed it there. https://www.nairaland.com/1795548/doctors-strike-cripples-hospitals-nationwide/5#24406019 |
Re: JOHESU Press Release on the NMA STRIKE by Dapo4u(m): 12:56pm On Jul 03, 2014 |
This is a reflection of a failed nation! In Nigeria,the ethos of multidisciplinary healthcare system is in shambles inflicted upon us by the people who inhabit various reverrred positions in health sector because of greed, arrogance and injustice. A man might be a cleaner, if he does his duty well and offers the portal of perfection to the most high, he is far better than a mr-know-it-all. No matter how angry we are because of the present scenarios, justice and goodwill will outlast passion. I have been privileged to live outside the country, in all my years of sojourning abroad, I have never witnessed this show of shame. In all these, we forget that the rot in public hospitals, we forget that Nigeria has one of the highest rates of maternal mortality, yet we are too quick to say" I am a surgeon," we should all bury our heads in shame. As a point departure, it is only a fool that will assume he knows everything, and he is more of a fool if he does not want to learn from others. 3 Likes |
Re: JOHESU Press Release on the NMA STRIKE by Acidosis(m): 12:58pm On Jul 03, 2014 |
I'm back to pinpoint some facts. I noticed medics on Nairaland are always laying emphasis on how they pass through "almighty" Jamb whilst downgrading other health workers. Only the ignorant will fall for these lies... We all know how some Dean & Provost admit their sons and daughters even when they are as dull as cats. I personally know people who couldn't pass pre-degree exams into Botany, Zoology etc, but ended up in private medical schools. Na these types raise shoulder pads pass... We all know why some of you feel insecure... Its simple. Medical schools keep increasing in the country; and your association (NMA) needs to work out strategy to create jobs for the up coming ones, so that the calamity that befell Law and other professions in Nigeria do not come at your door steps. Unfortunately, para medics are not at fault, Scarcity of Jobs is. In a country where docs now fight for the role of LAB Scientists, then we are in deep poo... Very soon, docs will also claim the role of Pharmacologists (though, they're free to apply for masters programme in Pharmacology), but we all know how and when this course was "borrowed & introduced into the 400L medical curriculum in UNILAG Hopefully, they won't fight BSc Pharmacologists & Clinical Pharmacologists with Pharmacy Backgrounds |
Re: JOHESU Press Release on the NMA STRIKE by phantomm: 1:00pm On Jul 03, 2014 |
Ampicillin:the patient comes to see me THE DOCTOR and I DICTATE WHO to INVOLVE in patient care. that's why I am number 1. I request for lab work and radiological investigations and I write prescriptions for the pharmacist to dispense. I write out the plan the nurses ADHERE TO OR FOLLOW. why are you so blind to see that the doctor is CENTRAL and indeed owns the patient. none of these other professionals come into contact first with the patient. I DO and its my choice to involve them. qed 5 Likes |
Re: JOHESU Press Release on the NMA STRIKE by ikechiozo: 1:03pm On Jul 03, 2014 |
phantomm: easy there tiger. I just gave you an example.please don't go shoving your complex down my throat. y'all feel intimidated by every thing that comes out a doctors mouth(or should i say fingers in this case) Do you have to make your point by insulting people? or is it part of the medical training? 1 Like |
Re: JOHESU Press Release on the NMA STRIKE by opey25(m): 1:06pm On Jul 03, 2014 |
phantomm: ..... but you ll push your kids into medicine the slightest chance you get.....newt! lolDR phantom,u don't have to be arrogant just because u are a doc.there are lots of engineers in telecomms firms,IT,oil and gas that earn big bucks yet we don't brag.u said 100k is even too small as hazard allowance,that means security personnels like the police should be paid 1m as hazard allowance cos their job is more hazardous than yours 3 Likes |
Re: JOHESU Press Release on the NMA STRIKE by theexpected: 1:09pm On Jul 03, 2014 |
;DWhen next you are sick, or have a surgery, let the nurse do it. When u go to the clinic in the hospital, beg the nurses and cleaner and johesu to review ur case say u dont want to be treated by a doctor because they are proud. All will be well with you |
Re: JOHESU Press Release on the NMA STRIKE by phantomm: 1:12pm On Jul 03, 2014 |
ikechiozo:brother take it easy.I am sorry if you feel insulted. i only tried to make you understand you can't report radiographs or CTS when your training didn't teach you epidemiology and pathophysiology of diseases.its not just to know patterns.anyone can know patterns. but because of my training as a doctor I not only know those patterns,I can explain to you WHY those patterns are there and can also QUESTION THE ABSENCE of particular patterns I expect in certain disease processes.so you can see I armed to the teeth with information that already puts me at an advantage and makes me the GO TO GUY in the field. sorry once again if you felt insulted.wasn't intended. |
Re: JOHESU Press Release on the NMA STRIKE by phantomm: 1:14pm On Jul 03, 2014 |
opey25: DR phantom,u don't have to be arrogant just because u are a doc.there are lots of engineers in telecomms firms,IT,oil and gas that earn big bucks yet we don't brag.u said 100k is even too small as hazard allowance,that means security personnels like the police should be paid 1m as hazard allowance cos their job is more hazardous than yoursif our country was well run, my hazard allowance wouldn't be up to half of that of our security personnel. this issue is not about earning big bucks but doing the right thing for the health sector. |
Re: JOHESU Press Release on the NMA STRIKE by Nobody: 1:14pm On Jul 03, 2014 |
Drphemmy4u: After d usual 6yrs (plus Xyears) in medical school,1year internship and 1year NYSC,a Doctor could proceed on post graduate studies by writing primaries depending on d specialty he wants to go into.this could be laboratory medicine(histopathology,microbiology,chemical pathology,haematology),Radiology etc.this involves passing 3 exams.Candidates pay between 100-150k per exam.Doctors could write the exams many times before passing and can even get released from residency in a teaching hospital if he fails to progress within a set time period.it takes 6-12yrs depending on your speed(plus research work),thus becoming a consultant in that specialty(taking 14-20yrs of academic and hospital practice).NOW,a lab scientist who studied only at undergraduate level in 5yrs wants to become a consultant in that field simply because he has been using reagents and analysing samples?those who can go for masters and PhD amongst them should do so and become lecturers under the university(They lecture medical students in pathology classes too).This needless fight for supremacy should stop.The patients are at the receiving end here.How true is the bold? If true then the Doctors should learn how to Hire professionals to fine tune that demands. The NMA demands (as presented) reek greed, selfishness, wickedness and blackmail which is unacceptable in any climes. |
Re: JOHESU Press Release on the NMA STRIKE by theexpected: 1:18pm On Jul 03, 2014 |
The funny thing is, when these nurses or their relatives are sick, [/b]they never treat themselves or agree to be treated by a fellow nurse they always demend and beg to be seen by a doctor thats where u'd c them smiling and callin doctors "OGA"[b]. But if its the public they'd be claiming that they know more than doctors and be killing pple all over. A serious nurse never claims to know more than a doctor, its all thse clowns that r always claiming stuff. 5 Likes |
Re: JOHESU Press Release on the NMA STRIKE by phantomm: 1:23pm On Jul 03, 2014 |
what johesu is asking for is akin to letting them throw a giant rock into a market place. I am sorry BUR NMA won't allow it. tomorrow when Nigerians start seeing the ripple effects they ll still turn back and point a finger at the doctor. its not fair. every right thinking Nigerian should stand up now and condemn it. we are complaining about our shameful health indices due partly to QUACKERY. there are many pharmacist s lab techs and nurses practicing medicine.prescribing drugs and cutting people open. it happens everyday. it is wrong because these people are not licensed to do that. what the govt wants to do now is LEGALISE that quackery.why? nurses and pharmacists will tell patients they are also consultants and our people are to illiterate to know who is who. anarchy will be the order and of course our health indices will plunge further. your govt will then employ all sorts of emergency and knee jerk solutions to the problem meanwhile they planted the tree years back. Nma says no! |
Re: JOHESU Press Release on the NMA STRIKE by phantomm: 1:32pm On Jul 03, 2014 |
barcanista: How true is the bold? If true then the Doctors should learn how to Hire professionals to fine tune that demands.you can see that you be been firing from all cylinders without actually knowing what's going on. a new resident will write an exam called 'primary' in his chosen field in both the west African and national colleges.each exam is about 40 or 50 k..... not sure again. before attempting these exams he must have had at least two update courses . he has 3 chances after which he's booted out. if he passes he has to train for two or three years before attempting another exam called the part 1 exams still in both colleges. each about 65k and still 3 chances or you get booted out. he spends another two to three years if he passes part 1 and attempts the final part 2 exam before consultancy. each is 120 k and he has to write a research thesis separate from the main exam. still has 3 chances. he passes and becomes a consultant. it is a tedious postgraduate training programme and we don't joke with it. |
Re: JOHESU Press Release on the NMA STRIKE by vinnyvinny(m): 1:37pm On Jul 03, 2014 |
vinnyvinny: What input would a consultant lab scientist or consultant physiotherapist or nurse give in the care of a patient that is currently lacking. I would also like to be educated on the requirements to become any of the above. The only response I got for my question was from Phantomm whom I guess is a medical doctor. I would like a JOHESU member to respond please. Let the doctors chill. I have my set of questions for u guys too. 2 Likes |
Re: JOHESU Press Release on the NMA STRIKE by ikechiozo: 1:43pm On Jul 03, 2014 |
phantomm: brother take it easy.I am sorry if you feel insulted. i only tried to make you understand you can't report radiographs or CTS when your training didn't teach you epidemiology and pathophysiology of diseases.its not just to know patterns.anyone can know patterns. but because of my training as a doctor I not only know those patterns,I can explain to you WHY those patterns are there and can also QUESTION THE ABSENCE of particular patterns I expect in certain disease processes.so you can see I armed to the teeth with information that already puts me at an advantage and makes me the GO TO GUY in the field. sorry once again if you felt insulted.wasn't intended. These courses are well taken care of in Radiography curriculum.. |
Re: JOHESU Press Release on the NMA STRIKE by echarlz(m): 1:43pm On Jul 03, 2014 |
Lies, lies and lies... Entry point for post NYSC doctors is NOT Grade level 13! House officers as today enters on CONMESS 1 while post NYSC doctors enter on Level 2. These people have gone round telling these lies for some time, just to misinform Nigerians and get public sympathy. And talking about private hospitals, in major locations in Nigeria today, there are far more private facilities run by nurses and health professionals in the civil service than are run by doctors. They are emboldened by years of working with docs and understudying them without background knowledge of clinical practice. The result is turning over of cases of patients complicated by them to the same docs they so pungently loathe. |
Re: JOHESU Press Release on the NMA STRIKE by Inkredible(m): 1:50pm On Jul 03, 2014 |
theexpected:Ur opinion though. But those Nurses, their head dey dia. On rounds eh, questions r thrown to anyone. I don't see how those who can't provide answers r "less knowledgeable". But shouldn't dey be " more knowledgeable" than student nurses? 1 Like |
Re: JOHESU Press Release on the NMA STRIKE by Nobody: 1:52pm On Jul 03, 2014 |
phantomm: you can see that you be been firing from all cylinders without actually knowing what's going on. a new resident will write an exam called 'primary' in his chosen field in both the west African and national colleges.each exam is about 40 or 50 k..... not sure again. before attempting these exams he must have had at least two update courses . he has 3 chances after which he's booted out. if he passes he has to train for two or three years before attempting another exam called the part 1 exams still in both colleges. each about 65k and still 3 chances or you get booted out. he spends another two to three years if he passes part 1 and attempts the final part 2 exam before consultancy. each is 120 k and he has to write a research thesis separate from the main exam. still has 3 chances. he passes and becomes a consultant. it is a tedious postgraduate training programme and we don't joke with it.@Bold: I have been firing based on the Information presented by NMA and JOHESU. Honestly, I took my time to relax, read and evaluate both sides and HONESTLY Doctors do have some TANGIBLE demands and also some Obnoxious ones. The NMA/Doctors should have told Nigerians the "WHY" of their opposition to JOHESU members attaining "Consultancy" status within few years by just acquiring a Postgraduate degree or work experience. Instead of just OPPOSING like that. The NMA should have also explained the process by which an Average Doctor go through before attaining the Rank/Position/Title of a "Consultant". This will enable us reason with them rather than just say... "We oppose". The Medical Hazard Allowance of 100k is obnoxious and unacceptable. An amount of 35/40k should be fine The Doctors/NMA should encourage other "Professionals" to grow and possibly reach the peak of their profession but MUST follow International standard(and not shortcut). Honestly, the Medical Profession has a HIGH STANDARD but the leadership of NMA/NARD should consider their strategies and how they press home their demands. 4 Likes |
Re: JOHESU Press Release on the NMA STRIKE by armadeo(m): 1:52pm On Jul 03, 2014 |
Omonoba1: seriously, i have been following your post and they all depict arrogancy...from the previous thread till now, you tend to stress the superiority of doctors.. people like you end up spending abnormal years in medical school because you are freaky too proud...if every one should write jamb again for MBBS/BDS, who will you work with?? dont forget that a Doctor simply have little knowledge of everything in the body but does not have full comprehensive knowledge about anything in the body.. If everyone goes back to write jamb most of you Will still end up where u are and reform johesu |
Re: JOHESU Press Release on the NMA STRIKE by Ampicillin: 1:54pm On Jul 03, 2014 |
phantomm: I agree! everyone can aspire to be what they want to be. you seem intelligent so let me ask you. are our people intelligent enough to differentiate a consultant physician from a consultant pharmacist? don't you think like everything in this country, this particular issue WILL be abused?? who will suffer? do you think the patient is the center in all this? our people are largely illiterate and I can assure you corrupt paramedical will use this as an opportunity to fleece Nigerians. my brother open your eyes. this will destroy healthcare.mark my words! Oga, what do you mean by ''differentiate'' oh you want everybody to see you from afar and say that is the consultant coming? patients are not dunce as you think, let the professional knowledge you have to offer and benefit the patient differentiate you (as permitted under the law as long as you don't encroach into others territory) white gown, stethoscope, etc are professional tools they are not objects of shoulder raising, what you do for the patients will tell them who you are, if you ask patients about their medications/drug related questions, they already know who you are, forget title, doctorate title is not a reward for spending years in the university, it is scientific knowledge and what you can offer the public. I am an advocate of team work with everyone respecting the other and not one person thinking he's the dictator, you must comply by his order even if he is make graven and glaring mistakes that is against my own professional ethics |
Re: JOHESU Press Release on the NMA STRIKE by phantomm: 2:02pm On Jul 03, 2014 |
barcanista:now you are posting like the barcanista I know. what are the obnoxious demands.let me tackle them individually. why is 100k too much for hazard? 2 Likes |
Re: JOHESU Press Release on the NMA STRIKE by eby001(m): 2:03pm On Jul 03, 2014 |
this country is a fcukd up country. NMA AND JOHESU ARE JUST GRABBING AT STRAW. until a police officer can carry himself with dignity without asking for #20,then will start to believe until mr president can board a cab in this country, then i will start to believe. until a level 12 civil servant can earn more than a senator, then i will start to believe. some believe the world is cynical that we will go back to the dark ages. i think i'm starting to believe so. |
Re: JOHESU Press Release on the NMA STRIKE by phantomm: 2:13pm On Jul 03, 2014 |
Ampicillin:........are you in Nigeria? seems to me you are in denial. 80% of our populace can't differentiate a Pharm from a doc.you know its true.this has resulted in people seeking specialist healthcare from people WHO SHOULD NOT BE GIVING IT.the few who know the difference still go to the pharmacist because of poverty. take a poll. find out how many of our women know who a consultant OBGYN is. our people are not enlightened and on top of that, poor. 1 Like |
Re: JOHESU Press Release on the NMA STRIKE by Nobody: 2:16pm On Jul 03, 2014 |
The doctors cause this to themselves,when consultants insult resident doctors with impunity.How do u want other hlth officers see them? Before now,most nurses have diploma in nursing(sch of nursing) until recently.Higher education for nurses should be of paramount importance,so also attitudinal change towards patients. As for d pharmacists,it has been reported that some organisms are becoming resistant to antibiotics.There are more to d job of a pharmacy than sitting in d hospital,taking stock of drugs & pharmacy technicians dispensing drugs.Use this power u are using to fight NMA to fight fake drugs.Stop quacks from opening pharmacies. The medical lab scientists stopped microbiologists,biochemists & science lab scientists from working in d lab.The programme they can take to qualify to work in a lab was scrabbed.No one said they stopd these set of people frm attaining d height of their career. 2 Likes |
Re: JOHESU Press Release on the NMA STRIKE by phantomm: 2:18pm On Jul 03, 2014 |
eby001: this country is a fcukd up country. NMA AND JOHESU ARE JUST GRABBING AT STRAW.the health sector is the only sector that still has some sanity but they want to scatter it. |
Re: JOHESU Press Release on the NMA STRIKE by Nobody: 2:21pm On Jul 03, 2014 |
Uncle odi: First the Nigerian constitution refers to them as either Medical laboratory Scientists or Scientists with a federal license . Your thoughts are irrelevant in the eyes of the LAW. Please refer to the Medical laboratory Science Council Act (MLSCN) which is a federal constitutional document ratified and passed by the National assembly. Are you more important than them? refer to this document for clarifications. http://www.mlscn.gov.ng/files/mlscn_docs/MLSCN_ACT.pdf Sorry Sir,A Scientist's job is not just technical, it's also scientific and demands intellect, forget about what happens in your mushroom hospitals where you physicians do urine PTs and do sense on C. albicans. Please don't give us that crap about being just technical, Medical laboratory Scientists all over the world develop diagnostics methods and procedures and reagents and other IVDs , even vaccines. A fellow Scientist developed a different method of identifying parasites in UBTH for rural areas. This is a quote from AMLSN(Scientists) president rejoinder to ASSOPON(pathologists)---> "AMLSN would also want to draw the attention of ASSOPON to the “Polio Vaccine Controversy” as captured in the Punch newspaper of Monday, March 22, 2004 (pg62) as follows: “AMLSN is happy to note that the Hon. Minister of Health and Nigerians in general have realized that the controversy over the safety and efcacy of polio vaccines was only resolved by laboratory tests conducted in Nigeria, South Africa and India exclusively by Medical Laboratory Scientists and not by pathologists as ASSOPON erroneously tried to claim”. Typically, when things are going well in the laboratory, pathologists want the credit; when they go wrong, they blame it on medical laboratory scientists." Yes it used they use to be Technicians but Knowledge evolves. Knowlege in pharmacology, physiology, hematology and other clinically-inclined courses became imperative for optimal performance as a fully grounded Scientist. B.MLS curriculum was borne out of that necessity. After all,Medical practitioners also started out as medical assistants in Nigeria. Every profession evolves. Biomedical Science in the U.K is not a 2-year associate. A bachelor is awarded. In Canada it's B.MLS http://www.unb.ca/academics/programs/undergrad/fr/medical/ In New Zealand same story. http://www.otago.ac.nz/courses/qualifications/bmlsc.html In Aussie,Medical Scientists are not different. http://www.csu.edu.au/courses/undergraduate/medical_science/course-overview Americans have taken it to a whole new level. Doctorate of Clinical laboratory Science. http://shrp.rutgers.edu/dept/CLS/DCLS/ Your mbbs can not rule over B.MLS in eyes of the law. Nobody forced me to be a Scientist and nobody forced you to be a Doctor. Do no overstep your boundary. 2 Likes |
Re: JOHESU Press Release on the NMA STRIKE by Nobody: 2:34pm On Jul 03, 2014 |
Acidosis: We know some of them are bosses, but do they fight to become VCs? You see, the painful truth is that JOHESU is causing all these fight to cripple doctors. Just imagine the liar that wrote the article saying that honorary professors don't work in the hospitals. That is a very fat lie. As a matter of fact, most consultants in teaching hospitals are university lecturers, and only just a few are pure hospital consultants. They are the ones that handle all the major cases including teaching medical students and registrars. Employing them is even cheaper for the hospitals cos their basic salaries come from the university, and only their call duty and other allowances comes from the teaching hospitals. Also, to say that registrars are only concerned about passing their exams, by the author of that article is devilish and wicked. Registrars are the most stressed group of workers in any teaching hospital, and everybody knows that. U can make enquiries if you're in doubt. Is it about the daily work schedule, ward rounds, clinic sessions, calls etc, yet somebody will write that rubbish about registrars, who are the soul of medical services in teaching hospitals. Does it occur to JOHESU that teaching hospitals are set up for the training of medical students and doctors in residency? Why are they bitter over the employment of registrars and professors of the various fields of medicine who are fully equipped to carry out this training? Are they saying teaching hospitals should be run as general and specialist hospitals, and doctors should no longer be trained? Again, to call resident doctors student doctors is an insult, and should not come from someone who has ever worked in a hospital. JOHESU members are fighting to be appointed consultants, but I ask, are medical consultants appointed arbitrarily? I thought a consultant is someone that has extra training in a field, and in health disciplines are usually specialists. Why will nurses, pharmacists, and lab scientists etc be fighting to become consultants? I know a lot of doctors who have been in the medical practice as civil servants for years, but they cannot become consultants cos they don't have the specialist training and qualification. Again, this struggle to become consultants is simply to fight doctors and cause confusion. Imagine that at NAUTH Nnewi, a consultant pharmacist entered the ward and cancelled prescriptions made by a consultant cardiologist cos the drug in question has a known adverse effect. Where is this rubbish done? Even among consultant doctors, their is respect and seniority, but hey this pharmacist wants a fight, not a genuine desire to improve patients lives. Likewise, a consultant nurse refused a plastic surgeon from reviewing a patient with surgical wound, saying she has already done so. Is this how they plan to carry out their consultancy? Are they not aware that doctors take full responsibility of patients admitted under them? For JOHESU to claim that doctors are the cause of the rot in the health sector is crazy, to say the least. Are doctors also the cause of the rot in education, transport, sports, agriculture, civil service generally, or even the overwhelming corruption in our country? Our health sector is just a reflection of the state of the Nation. However, progress is being made as many hospitals have been renovated? How come JOHESU claims it was last done in the 80s? Lies upon lies. The truth is that if other health workers will ever be allowed to take part in heading our hospitals, then JOHESU will have to be proscribed cos as long as it continues to exist, then other health workers will together gang up and relegate doctors as second fiddle in health care. That should never happen!!! Such has never been heard of in any other part of the world. A bitter truth is that the hospitals are the domain of doctors. Believe me, if there are as much as 500 doctors in a teaching hospital, they can effectively do the work of every other group of workers put together. Why? Because doctors have all round training: Clinical and preclinical medicine, laboratory medicine, pharmacology, radiology. Of course, nurses are trained to assist doctors. Only doctors have a clear understanding as to what happens in every other unit. A good manager should have a good and broad-based understanding of every aspect of an organization, and only doctors possess this knowledge as regards the hospitals. So why all the struggle and fight? This battle will obviously last for long, and may lead to privatization of our hospitals. Only then will JOHESU members know that there is actually a difference between doctors and others. Thanks for reading. 9 Likes |
Re: JOHESU Press Release on the NMA STRIKE by Nobody: 2:35pm On Jul 03, 2014 |
Re: JOHESU Press Release on the NMA STRIKE by bumfem: 2:35pm On Jul 03, 2014 |
Uncle odi: ...... if u see a strike, dont go reminding us of the hippocratic oath which u know nothing about. We wrote it. We swear it, we know what it means. ''the post of CMD of the hospitals is the BIRTHRIGHT of doctor'' .......pls could u provide any ref. to nigeria law that support this claim? I pitty nigeria doctors making claims without a single supporting document. I challeng u guys to go to court if you are armed with any document supporting your bogus claims. |
Re: JOHESU Press Release on the NMA STRIKE by armadeo(m): 2:37pm On Jul 03, 2014 |
s!s! afrika: Would you say I am a consultant whatever BUT AM NOT A DOCTOR? that in my opinion is the crux of the matter. People in the medical setting can differentiate the general public can not. If you really care for the patient ie public pick another title not related to post graduate medical training and enjoy. |
Re: JOHESU Press Release on the NMA STRIKE by imustsaymymindo: 2:38pm On Jul 03, 2014 |
Are the zoologists under NMA or Johesu? This might affect the president's decision. Naija go better! |
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