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Re: Tradition And Progress by Adenugay(m): 2:46pm On Jul 12, 2014 |
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Re: Tradition And Progress by Nobody: 7:29pm On Jul 12, 2014 |
all4naija: You know nothing about me. |
Re: Tradition And Progress by Nobody: 8:06pm On Jul 12, 2014 |
kingston277: "The farther backward you can look, the farther forward you can see." This paragraph contains subjective judgement. When the author of the article was young and naive, he was liberal but when he grew older and wiser, he became more "conservative". At first glance, it seems that "conservatism" and "progressivism" are equally self-evident, yet equally vacuous. Who will deny that good things ought to be preserved, and that evils ought to be abolished? It makes no sense to distinguish between "progressives" and "conservatives" without indicating what kind of progress, or conservation of what. It makes no sense to want to change everything all at once, or to preserve everything forever. I couldn't agree more but people will argue what to preserve and what to change. Although conservatives rarely if ever want "to preserve everything forever," conservatism emerged historically as a defensive reaction against people who did want "to change everything all at once." The political Left is defined, first and foremost, by its desire to tear down the existing society and build some preconceived utopia on the ruins. No wonder the Right has habitually regarded the future as a menace. In which country and in which age? The irony is that it's the utopians, from Plato on down to the feminists and environmentalists, who believe that society is, or can be, eternally fixed and inalterable. The utopian, exactly like the caricatured conservative, intends to "stand athwart history yelling Stop!" -- once he has recast society on his own design. Utopians underestimate the complexity and dynamism of the world, and overestimate the power of a simple and static order. Society is too complex, unpredictable, and deeply rooted to be designed or recreated by anyone. It was wrong to claim that progressivism is based on the belief of a future utopia and it is likewise wrong to claim that feminists and environmentalists believe in utopias. I will stop here because it is obvious that there are too many wrong assumptions in the basis of the article, which disqualifies the rest of it. |
Re: Tradition And Progress by macof(m): 8:44pm On Jul 12, 2014 |
[quote author=date1816][/quote] I know am entitled to my opinion. But don't deceive the people Prove all what you claimed about Mohamed and stop lying |
Re: Tradition And Progress by Nobody: 9:59pm On Jul 12, 2014 |
carefreewannabe:I am just saying it. Not that I know a damn thing about you. |
Re: Tradition And Progress by Nobody: 10:03pm On Jul 12, 2014 |
all4naija: I am just saying it. Not that I know a damn thing about you. The post was long and I was about to leave the house and I do NOT enjoy adult movies. I have seen quite a few. |
Re: Tradition And Progress by Nobody: 10:05pm On Jul 12, 2014 |
carefreewannabe:It took me about 2 to 3 minutes to read though. I indulge myself in watching them in a very rare occasion. |
Re: Tradition And Progress by Nobody: 10:06pm On Jul 12, 2014 |
all4naija: It took me about 2 to 3 minutes to read though. I indulge myself in it them in a very rare occasion. LOL |
Re: Tradition And Progress by Nobody: 10:08pm On Jul 12, 2014 |
carefreewannabe:Hahaha... Most girls would say they don't watch those kind of movies. I don't know if they are pretending or something. |
Re: Tradition And Progress by Nobody: 10:10pm On Jul 12, 2014 |
all4naija: Hahaha... Most girls would say they don't watch those kind of movies. I don't know if they are pretending or something. The movies were made for men and not for women, this is why many or maybe even most women do not enjoy these movies. The movies do not match female fantasies. |
Re: Tradition And Progress by Nobody: 10:16pm On Jul 12, 2014 |
carefreewannabe: That is meant to be a joke, I guess! Maybe most women can't stand them in the front of men. What do I know about women? Well, it is up for them to explain their fantasy is like. I think the women fantasize about intimacy as much as the men do. |
Re: Tradition And Progress by Nobody: 10:19pm On Jul 12, 2014 |
Progress might be based on some forms of tradition like ethics to do things for the good of the community passed down through ages but that is not the core of progress. The idea to build for the future is the major recipe of progress. There are a lot of things I disagree with in this particular write-up. |
Re: Tradition And Progress by Nobody: 10:28pm On Jul 12, 2014 |
all4naija: @bold Probably yes but in a different way. They do not have the fantasy of being a woman with extra big boobs who is being banged hard from behind by ugly men. This is just an example of what these movies show. And this is not what most women dream of. |
Re: Tradition And Progress by Nobody: 10:34pm On Jul 12, 2014 |
carefreewannabe: You are very funny. Men neither fantasize in the manner as well you touched on. You are wrong to think that is what adult movies are all about. There are different kind of approaches, genres and styles. You haven't really seen a good one though. I like to watch it when it involves familiar faces in a very rare occasion. |
Re: Tradition And Progress by Nobody: 10:47pm On Jul 12, 2014 |
all4naija: It was just an example. I know there are other examples too but fact is that most of them do not meet an average woman's taste. The way some female porn stars behave in these movies is either funny or terrifying. Seeing other women behaving like this, is not a turn on. |
Re: Tradition And Progress by Nobody: 10:52pm On Jul 12, 2014 |
carefreewannabe:Are you speaking for average woman or just yourself? I doubt the average woman would turn away from a good intimacy. Indeed, most of them have complained of satisfaction from their male counterparts. Come on, we know women are more into the game better than men do. |
Re: Tradition And Progress by Nobody: 10:55pm On Jul 12, 2014 |
all4naija: I was talking about movies. |
Re: Tradition And Progress by Nobody: 10:58pm On Jul 12, 2014 |
carefreewannabe:Yes, but with regard to gender idea about them. You failed to convince me women are not equally worse than men. I think women secretly indulge in them for gratification. |
Re: Tradition And Progress by Nobody: 11:00pm On Jul 12, 2014 |
all4naija: Yes, but with regard to gender idea about them. You failed to convince me women are not equally worse than men. I think women secretly indulge in them for gratification. I think women also watch these movies but I still believe that these movies were rather made for men. |
Re: Tradition And Progress by Nobody: 11:08pm On Jul 12, 2014 |
carefreewannabe:I believe they are made for both genders. Women fantasize about size and gratification so much that many have to see how they are before any encounter. There is even main-society believe on the bigger the size the better the satisfaction,etc. |
Re: Tradition And Progress by Nobody: 11:17pm On Jul 12, 2014 |
all4naija: I believe they are made for both genders. Women fantasize about size and gratification so much that many have to see how they are before any encounter. There is even main-society believe on the bigger the size the better the satisfaction,etc. It is not that simple. Female s. e. x. uality is more complex. It is no enough for a woman to see a big joystick to become excited. |
Re: Tradition And Progress by Nobody: 11:37pm On Jul 12, 2014 |
carefreewannabe:I didn't say that either. I know women s*xuality is complex but there is truth to how many would respond to a bigger size. |
Re: Tradition And Progress by Nobody: 11:39pm On Jul 12, 2014 |
all4naija: I didn't say that either. I know women s*xuality is complex but there is truth to how many would respond to a bigger size. I just want to say in advance that it is NOT about me so what I will say is what I heard from some other women. There are women who like it big but there are also women who don't. |
Re: Tradition And Progress by Nobody: 11:54pm On Jul 12, 2014 |
carefreewannabe:It is okay. Aren't you a lady old enough to talk about your s*xuality? I pointed to the same thing in my previous post about women choice. The same can be said about men preference only that men sometimes allow their lust take over their reasoning. I am not in the group of those though. |
Re: Tradition And Progress by Nobody: 12:02am On Jul 13, 2014 |
all4naija: I am a lady old enough but I do not talk about my s. xuality on a public forum. |
Re: Tradition And Progress by Nobody: 12:11am On Jul 13, 2014 |
carefreewannabe:Lol... Not an unknown person behind a handle. You are taking it too personal. And, that is laughable! |
Re: Tradition And Progress by kingston277(m): 3:09pm On Jul 14, 2014 |
@ posters Not sure if people have just go out of bed when they "read" this very important article, but I will be happy to reiterate... |
Re: Tradition And Progress by kingston277(m): 5:03pm On Jul 14, 2014 |
all4naija:But, he says... Karl Jahn: Now, "progress" must have a particular direction, which is itself a matter of debate. There are different kinds of "progressives": nowadays, there are liberals and libertarians. Liberals want to "progress" towards an all-powerful government; libertarians want to "progress" towards anarchy. The good news is that "progress" is indeterminate: we are free to decide for ourselves what it means -- what we want to progress towards. We can re-examine the idea of "progress" and redefine it as the continuation and enlargement of our inherited culture, rather than its contradiction and destruction.And... Karl Jahn: On the other hand, tradition and order are needed to consolidate and preserve past accomplishments. Innovations are only enduring when integrated into an established order. No matter how desirable any reform may be, the preservation of social order and the rule of law must always have greater priority. Given this basic stability and continuity, one may effect gradual and prudent reforms, as necessary. all4naija: There are a lot of things I disagree with in the write-up. I think the writer is from the age past and have no idea of the workings of the modern world that much would be required as necessity to get beyond earth we are so much imprisoned to.Um...The bottom of the article states its was only written in 1999, maybe if you consider 1999 a different age from 2014, then thats just you. Give one example of a societal aspect that has changed drastically since then. all4naija: The opinion is so much on the morality of society than the progress based on acquisition and looking to the future.Karl Jahn is well educated and well versed in this subject, far more than you. that is why you separate morality from looking into the furture when they go hand in hand when it comes to progress Read this from another well educated man if you don't understand: RandomAfricanAm: That sh*t is sad man. sadIs that what you want? To become a mechanized barbarian? all4naija: Lol... The same part the writer makes blatant error based on his view using it to see the others on the same foot! I'm not sure if its your eurocentric social conditioning or the fact that you are reported to be mixed, and with that, believe that gives you superiority over people of African stock and their culture no matter how much more it has achieved than yours. I'm sure that is why you're always criticizing developmental recommendations that don't glorify the influence of your western cronies. I'll leave you to your opinion but will let you know that what the writer says has been parroted several times before by historian/culture/social analysts, traditionalists, etc and has been proven by the likes of China, Japan, Saudi Arabia and other countries that block western influence and simply expand their own and create their own human rights laws and customs based on their ancestors perceptions of right and wrong. |
Re: Tradition And Progress by kingston277(m): 9:26pm On Jul 14, 2014 |
carefreewannabe: If you were more educated on the social situation of where he resides, you'd know that he is paraphrasing his society who placed his personal beliefs under those labels, hence the quotes. Where he lives liberalism is viewed as "naive" while conservatism is considered "wise". Why does he tell us he was against the traditional liberal beliefs of old being bad when he was young and new being bad when he was older and conservative if he is opinionated? You seriously can't deduce that your quote and his said perceptions of old and new contradict each other? I couldn't agree more but people will argue what to preserve and what to change.That still doesn't change the fact that the given society must choose where they want to progress to. e.g Why do you want to preserve/change this practice? Is there goal you have set for your society? In which country and in which age?Check the politics section if you're having trouble. It was wrong to claim that progressivism is based on the belief of a future utopia and it is likewise wrong to claim that feminists and environmentalists believe in utopias.Sorry to say, but he is correct. Many people with agendas are obviously attempting to "progress" society to something which in most eyes of humans with agendas happens to be a utopia. Think about the major religions for a second, are they not trying to "progress" to a global utopia? I will stop here because it is obvious that there are too many wrong assumptions in the basis of the article, which disqualifies the rest of it.This post is full of so much hypocrisy that I am truly worried that you might become what you claim to fear. So he paraphrases the collective views of the society he lives in and you are bashing him for being subjective, while he states a well known fact that conservatives are typically against change while liberals want a rapid, dynamic society. The entire purpose of his article is to balance those views to show that they are complementary rather than polar opposites, in NL speak, tradition and progress. If you are seeing a social diagnosis as a judgment, especially when the writer intends to eliminate conflict between the two ideals, then something is wrong with your credibility, not his. So I suggest you review the article and then post. |
Re: Tradition And Progress by kingston277(m): 9:26pm On Jul 14, 2014 |
carefreewannabe: If you were more educated on the social situation of where he resides, you'd know that he is paraphrasing his society who placed his personal beliefs under those labels, hence the quotes. Where he lives liberalism is viewed as "naive" while conservatism is considered "wise". Why does he tell us he was against the traditional liberal beliefs of old being bad when he was young and new being bad when he was older and conservative if he is opinionated? You seriously can't deduce that your quote and his said perceptions of old and new contradict each other? I couldn't agree more but people will argue what to preserve and what to change.That still doesn't change the fact that the given society must choose where they want to progress to. e.g Why do you want to preserve/change this practice? Is there goal you have set for your society? In which country and in which age?Check the politics section if you're having trouble. It was wrong to claim that progressivism is based on the belief of a future utopia and it is likewise wrong to claim that feminists and environmentalists believe in utopias.Sorry to say, but he is correct. Many people with agendas are obviously attempting to "progress" society to something which in most eyes of humans with agendas happens to be a utopia. Think about the major religions for a second, are they not trying to "progress" to a global utopia? I will stop here because it is obvious that there are too many wrong assumptions in the basis of the article, which disqualifies the rest of it.This post is full of so much hypocrisy that I am truly worried that you might become what you claim to fear. So he paraphrases the collective views of the society he lives in and you are bashing him for being subjective, while he states a well known fact that conservatives are typically against change while liberals want a rapid, dynamic society. The entire purpose of his article is to balance those views to show that they are complementary rather than polar opposites, in NL speak, tradition and progress. If you see a social diagnosis as a judgment, especially when the writer intends to eliminate conflict between the two ideals, then something is wrong with your credibility, not his. So I suggest you review the article and then post. |
Re: Tradition And Progress by kingston277(m): 9:26pm On Jul 14, 2014 |
carefreewannabe: If you were more educated on the social situation of where he resides, you'd know that he is paraphrasing his society who placed his personal beliefs at the time under those labels, like placing ideas in boxes where he says they don't fit, hence the quotes. Where he lives, liberalism is viewed as "naive" while conservatism is considered "wise". Why does he tell us he was against the traditional liberal beliefs of the old being bad when he was young/"liberal" and the new being bad when he was older/"conservative" if he is opinionated? You seriously can't deduce that your quote and his said perceptions of old and new contradict each other, signaling that he can't possibly view one as more "wise" than the other? I couldn't agree more but people will argue what to preserve and what to change.That still doesn't change the fact that the given society must choose where they want to progress to. e.g Why do you want to preserve/change this practice? Is there goal you have set for your society? In which country and in which age?Check the politics section if you're having trouble. It was wrong to claim that progressivism is based on the belief of a future utopia and it is likewise wrong to claim that feminists and environmentalists believe in utopias.Sorry to say, but he is correct. Many people with agendas are obviously attempting to "progress" society to something which in most eyes of humans with agendas happens to be a utopia. Think about the major religions for a second, are they not trying to "progress" to a global utopia? I will stop here because it is obvious that there are too many wrong assumptions in the basis of the article, which disqualifies the rest of it.This post is full of so much hypocrisy that I am truly worried that you might become what you claim to fear. So he paraphrases the collective views of the society he lives in and you are bashing him for being subjective, while he states a well known fact that conservatives are typically against change while liberals want a rapid, dynamic society? The entire purpose of his article is to balance those views to show that they are complementary rather than polar opposites, in NL speak, tradition and progress. If you are seeing a social diagnosis as judgment, especially when the writer intends to eliminate conflict between the two ideals, then something is wrong with your credibility, not his. So I suggest you review the article and then post. |
Re: Tradition And Progress by Nobody: 9:46pm On Jul 14, 2014 |
kingston277: It is my fault, I didn't take the time to check the author, date and place of publication. I take your criticism without complaining. |
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