true2god: Cloudstar may God bless you, your manner of response is quite commendable. I am highly impressed.
As I have said earlier, and will always repeat, the hypocrisy, al-taqiyyas, and lies in muslims (and Islam) is legendary and unimaginable. The happenings in palestine is bad, but muslims will never believe that the palenstians were launching rockets to Isreal which prompted the Israeli responses.

On the issue of Iraqi ISIS expelling, raping, looting and killing christians in Iraq, to the muslims it is a normal thing. It is a religios duty commanded by mohammed (spit be upon him) against the 'infidels'.

I am very sure, I wont see any muslim protest, in any part of the world, against the atrocities being committed by the Jihadist against the 'infidels'. It is business as usual.

cloudstar:
That is because most Muslims here on NL are not objective. I had a debate with one of them about venerating and worshiping objects in Islam. The Quran clearly forbids venerating and worshiping any object. Yet Mohammad kissed the black stone in direct dis-obedience to the Quran. I brought it to the Muslim attention and his response was - if Mohammad did it then it is correct. That is the level of reasoning when it comes to nearly every matter when you are discussing with Muslims. They put their God given reasoning aside and decide on every matter using the criteria - "If Mohammad did it, then it is right".
So if Mohammad married a 6 year old girl and slept with her at 9 then that is the standard. If Mohammad wore women clothing, then it is the standard. If Mohammad ordered the killing of over 700 captured Jews; then that is the standard - it is truly pathetic. We need to always speak the truth and refer to history to confront lies and misconceptions.
That is the same case here - Muslims hate Jews because the Quran said so and because Mohammad said so. You calls others pigs and monkeys just because a 7th century illiterate said so. I am not surprised because I grew up in such environments and at some point entertained the same thought. But thank God for His many mercies and His grace. Where would we be today if it was not for God.
Thanks for your support. I pray God will reveal Himself to all of us including our Muslim brothers in someway that we can understand and relate to. God bless you

Sahih International
He who obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah ; but those who turn away - We have not sent you over them as a guardian.

Shakir
Whoever obeys the Messenger, he indeed obeys Allah, and whoever turns back, so We have not sent you as a keeper over them.

Dr. Ghali
Whoever obeys the Messenger, then he has already obeyed Allah; and whoever turns away, then in no way have We sent you (as) an ever-preserver over them.

Sahih International
It is not for a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter, that they should [thereafter] have any choice about their affair. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has certainly strayed into clear error.

Shakir
And it behoves not a believing man and a believing woman that they should have any choice in their matter when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter; and whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he surely strays off a manifest straying.

Dr. Ghali
And in no way should a male believer or a female believer, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a Command, have the choice in their Command. Whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, then he has readily erred away into evident error.

cloudstar:

That is because most Muslims here on NL are not objective. I had a debate with one of them about venerating and worshiping objects in Islam. The Quran clearly forbids venerating and worshiping any object. Yet Mohammad kissed the black stone in direct dis-obedience to the Quran. I brought it to the Muslim attention and his response was - if Mohammad did it then it is correct. That is the level of reasoning when it comes to nearly every matter when you are discussing with Muslims. They put their God given reasoning aside and decide on every matter using the criteria - "If Mohammad did it, then it is right".

So if Mohammad married a 6 year old girl and slept with her at 9 then that is the standard.

If Mohammad wore women clothing, then it is the standard.

If Mohammad ordered the killing of over 700 captured Jews; then that is the standard - it is truly pathetic. We need to always speak the truth and refer to history to confront lies and misconceptions.

That is the same case here - Muslims hate Jews because the Quran said so and because Mohammad said so.

You calls others pigs and monkeys just because a 7th century illiterate said so. I am not surprised because I grew up in such environments and at some point entertained the same thought. But thank God for His many mercies and His grace. Where would we be today if it was not for God.

Thanks for your support. I pray God will reveal Himself to all of us including our Muslim brothers in someway that we can understand and relate to. God bless you

bring out the verse that forbids "venerating objects", and i will bring you the verse from the Quran that permits "venerating objects".

you are resorting to red herrings. he did not marry any 6 year old nor did he sleep with any 9 year old. from historical evidence, before the Prophet (sa) engaged Aisha, she was already married to another man. this is a fact that is often not repeated by the bulk of Muslims for known reasons. and the idea she was 6 or 9 can easily be disproved, and it can be established from the same historical sources that she could have been as old as 13 or even 21 years old. but idiots like you whose holy evil spirit cannot guide them to offer any guidance only depend on how to blackmail others and resort to character assassination that would not do you any good.

that would be best reserved for you and your likes.

but he did not murder any 700 Jews. had he done that, one would expect the spot to be identified. nothing as such.

we do not hate Jews. Muslims have issues with Zionist Jews. there are non-Zionist Jews too. when Christianity was persecuting Jews for killing their "god", it was Muslims who gave the Jews refuge

well, if you are right, at least we practice what we preach. as for you hypocrite who call yourself "christian", here is what your "Christ" said about them:

Luke 13:34
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

John 8:44
Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Matthew 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you that kill the prophets, and stone them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together , even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Mathew 23:33
"You serpents, you generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell"?

Mathew 12:34
"O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks".

Mathew 12:39
"But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas".

don't let satan fool you and lead you to increase in arrogance

cloudstar: LagosShia

From the hadith of Bukhari, volume 5, #234

"Narrated Aisha: The prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six. We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Harith Kharzraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's messenger came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, a[b]nd at that time I was a girl of nine years of age[/b]."

Bukhari vol. 7, #65:

"Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: "I have been informed that Aisha remained with the prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).

For Shias like you, you will want to cast doubt on Al-Bukhari Hadiths, claiming otherwise. Until you can write your own Hadith that is accepted as a historical proof, please sit down and learn from your own history

The above "hadith" is a fabricated hadith

cloudstar: Empiree



Hahahahahaha - Fabricated! Coming from a Shia it's no surprise; anything that is Sunni is fabricated . How can you claim Al-Bukhari narrations are fabricated and in defense you used Youtube videos from 21st century Muslim clerics. For the love of God, how does your brain function?

Please take some time and learn about historical evidence. The closer to the source a narration or account is, the more reason to believe it is accurate. For example, Al-Bukhari account is about 150-250 years from the death of Mohammad. Your Clerics you posted are over 1,300 years. So, if we go by history, Al-Bukhari holds more historical reference Bros.

Also, you don't pick and chose which Hadith is fabricated and which is not. If Al-Bukhari is fabricated and his entire Hadiths and everything is them are false. Obviously, you don't hold such views. You guys are pitiful; You don't even know your history - pathetic!

Empiree:

You are not a muslim. So one shouldn't expect from you any sense of positive reasoning. Average muslims know there are fabricated ahadith. Sorry, i am no Shia or Sunni by title. You keep saying that but your plan will not work

cloudstar:

Awwwww, it seems I have hurt your feelings. No vex Bros. Your problem is that you don't know your religious history. It is sad because you claim to be a Muslim yet you ignore the very same history you claim to know. I don't have to be a Muslim to know Islamic history - my qualification is based on the fact that I can READ. If you are claiming Al-Bukhari is fabricated then you have no business discussing this matter, you are only making a fo.ol of yourself. Al-Bukhari is one of D MOST authentic hadiths that is respected by ALL Islamic schools of jurisprudence.

So, please go do more research before you engage in discussions you have no clue about.

Empiree:

The above "hadith" is a fabricated hadith

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw05XUx0CrM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUM1tBxF9hg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOhyhxOKI4E&list=FL0GR3AOFGVPiVLu3QxCro8A&index=64

true2god: Can you please provide the 'non-fabricated and authentic' hadith for the sake of this argument?

cloudstar:

Ha - you will kill him oh! His response are the youtube links

Empiree: true2god and CloudStar, the fact is you are folks that already made up your mind. Why do you think i have to argue with you. Nothing we say will make sense to you. So what's the point. Scholars of Islam, past and present work on ahadith. They have tried hard to separate fabricated ahadith from authentic, from weak ones. Just because it's in Sahih does not mean Bukhari wrote it.

For instance, Jizya (tax) and Zakat (Arms giving) are permitted in Quran. But there is a famous authentic hadith that speak of the return of Jesus(as). In that hadith, it says Jizya will be abolished. This is false. Yet, it's within authentic hadith.

Fabricated ahadith are not those devoid of "common sense". Rather, their obvious contradiction of primary source of guidance, Qur'an. Qur'an is standard and protection guaranteed. But God did not promise to protect Hadith. Hadith is like Bible (mixed up of truth and falsehood, suspicious hearsays). But we can not avoid hadith. And you see, none can guide you guys except God Almighty.. So keep having fun.

true2god: You are talking nonsense, as usual. Since you claimed an hadith is fabricated, it is expected of you, as someone who knows the original from the fabricated one, to provide the original hadith for your argument to have any form of credibility. How do you expect me to take you serious when you are using 'fabricated' to deny an obvious facts in your hadith while your Islamic 'scholars' are desperately trying to justify the fact the Adam was 6cubit tall and the reasons it was appropriate for your prophet to marry a 6yr old girl.

Hadith is a good source of\for Islamic laws and customs, more than 80% of sharia laws are gotten from the hadith which hows its importance in Islmic theology. Why will hadith become 'useless' and the quran supreme anytime any inconsistency is raised in your hadith? You compare the bible with the hadith while your more than 90% of the content of ur quran was plagarized from the Bible.

I repeat, lies and hypocrisy are very compatible with Islam\muslims.

Empiree: Responding to Adam(as)'s height bruahaha, I am not going to get involved in religious e-war over this. It's very simple. My first question is if scientists had come to the same conclusion that Adam(as) was 90 feet tall (60 cubits), would you have believed it?.

Now, i was wondering about the age of earth some months back. I researched scientific "evidence" to get clue. Scientists have said that the age of earth is 4.54 billion years old. You would believe this isnt?. But what if Quran said the same thing woud you have rejected it claim?.

My question is if earth is 4.54 billion yrs old, isnt possible that Adam(as) could be 60 cubits as Quran claims?. 4.54 billion is no joke my brothers. That's way too long. Adam(as) was the first man on earth, why wouldnt he be that tall billions of years ago?. But in your preconceived notion, your limited intellectual capacity, the capacity that can not see beyond its limited underrstanding of reality, you concluded that it was not possible for a man to be that tall.

Would you have believed if scientists said Adam(as) was 90 feet tall, as they claim earth is 4.54 billion years old?.
http://www.google.com/#q=age+of+earth
http://answering-christianity.com/adam_90_feet_tall.htm

Your problem is HATE for Islam, Arabs and Muslims. You dont know Islam. If you do you would have been Muslims by now. If you approach Islam(Quran) with bias, hateful mind your chances of learning nothing is high.

true2god: I hate lies and not Islam\muslims.

Your points are conjecturals with a lot of what if, what if and what if, which implies that you are not sure of what you are talking about but wants to align with hadith's teachings that Adam was 60cubit tall. If you want to involve science on this matter you will only end up making a fool of yourself.

Let me take your hypothesis a bit serious. If the scientists say the earth is 4.5b yrs, does it also say that plants and human contrast over the years? Do you believe in homo-eretus evolution since you want to justify the fallacious Adam is 60cubic tall as being taught my mohammed?

Empiree:

STOP WASTING MY TIME , PLEASE....

true2god: You are talking nonsense, as usual. Since you claimed an hadith is fabricated, it is expected of you, as someone who knows the original from the fabricated one, to provide the original hadith for your argument to have any form of credibility. How do you expect me to take you serious when you are using 'fabricated' to deny an obvious facts in your hadith while your Islamic 'scholars' are desperately trying to justify the fact the Adam was 6cubit tall and the reasons it was appropriate for your prophet to marry a 6yr old girl.

Hadith is a good source of\for Islamic laws and customs, more than 80% of sharia laws are gotten from the hadith which hows its importance in Islmic theology. Why will hadith become 'useless' and the quran supreme anytime any inconsistency is raised in your hadith? You compare the bible with the hadith while your more than 90% of the content of ur quran was plagarized from the Bible.

I repeat, lies and hypocrisy are very compatible with Islam\muslims.

true2god and CloudStar, the fact is you are folks that already made up your mind. Why do you think i have to argue with you. Nothing we say will make sense to you. So what's the point. Scholars of Islam, past and present work on ahadith. They have tried hard to separate fabricated ahadith from authentic, from weak ones. Just because it's in Sahih does not mean Bukhari wrote it.

For instance, Jizya (tax) and Zakat (Arms giving) are permitted in Quran. But there is a famous authentic hadith that speak of the return of Jesus(as). In that hadith, it says Jizya will be abolished. This is false. Yet, it's within authentic hadith.

Fabricated ahadith are not those devoid of "common sense". Rather, their obvious contradiction of primary source of guidance, Qur'an. Qur'an is standard and protection guaranteed. But God did not promise to protect Hadith. Hadith is like Bible (mixed up of truth and falsehood, suspicious hearsays). But we can not avoid hadith. And you see, none can guide you guys except God Almighty.. So keep having fun.

Empiree: Definition of Hadith: sayings of prophet Muhammad (saw). Technically, Hadith about Aisha(r) is not saying of the prophet(s). Rather, sayings attributed to Aisha(r). Besides. I see you guys as jealous. Any wonder you troll Islam but don't accept it?. That alone is evidence against you. I better leave you to keep screaming all you want. Good day.

Empiree: @ true2god CloudStar, let me suggest to you guys. I think you should open separate threads on

[color=#000099]Salat,
Aisha's so called 6 yr old marriage and
Adam(60 cubits)
This thread has long derailed. I dislike that. And the reason you derailed it is because you refused to answer questions about Israel's so called God given Land. So i hesitate to comment here. Please open threads together on those subjects that you having difficulties with. You will be dealt with there. I am still following this thread's original Op as to get updates since the event is yet over. I think tomorrow or so we hoping hostilities will cease for a while in the region.

I hesitate to respond to your comments sometimes because from your replies show that either you don't read my posts or don't understand it. That's troubling for me cus i am not going to go bak n fot over same qns. Let's put this to rest and stay on Op. Please open separate threads for your other concerns. Thank you.

To briefly answer your last post, I think you missing the point all the while. Quran revelation predates modern science discoveries. Just bcus scientists haven't discover some things doesn't mean Quran wrong. This is the question i posted to you earlier but you didnt understand it. But this your last post suggests to me that you proved my point. I think you need to put these pieces together.

Let me remind you what i asked earlier. You or cloudstar claim a man could not have been 60cubits tall. According to CloudStar it was impossible. And I asked if Scientists have discovered and proved Quran allegation to be correct, that Adam(as) was 90 feet tall you would have believed it. And i said the reason you would believe it is bcus of science (discovery). Something Quran already proven some 1400yrs ago. Your last post proves my point.

true2god: www.nairaland.com/1862340/adams-60-cubit-height-claim

Another thread has been created to discuss the Adam 60 cubic height.

To briefly answer your last post, I think you missing the point all the while. Quran revelation predates modern science discoveries. Just bcus scientists haven't discover some things doesn't mean Quran wrong. This is the question i posted to you earlier but you didnt understand it. But this your last post suggests to me that you proved my point. I think you need to put these pieces together.

Let me remind you what i asked earlier. You or cloudstar claim a man could not have been 60cubits tall. According to CloudStar it was impossible. And I asked if Scientists have discovered and proved Quran allegation to be correct, that Adam(as) was 90 feet tall you would have believed it. And i said the reason you would believe it is bcus of science (discovery). Something Quran already proven some 1400yrs ago. Your last post proves my point.