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Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by truthislight: 11:51pm On Jul 27, 2014 |
truthislight: Hear what Jesus himself had to say concerning David: Jesus had a different Idea about being called the son of David. It is only a thing of the Messaiah coming through the line of David, and not Necessarily being the 'son' of David. So i see it. He is of the opinion that he is greater than David. Read that ^ again, if Jesus was a direct blood of david as you claim, and not just the lineage of David, how then can Jesus be greater than David ? Please, limit yourself to what the bible said and teach. Peace. |
Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by nlMediator: 11:58pm On Jul 27, 2014 |
frosbel: You are free to believe what you want about the virgin birth of Jesus, but you don't have to lie about why people believe that Jesus is God. It's not because they want to keep sinning by seeing freedom from sin as impossible for man. Since you started believing that Jesus is a man like you, without the seed of God, have you stopped sinning? Can you show evidence of your sinless life, because from what we see here, you're no better than anybody here on that score? Some suggest that you contend for the faith and need help. Only the latter part is right. And the help you need cannot come from you. Because you seem so far gone you can't help yourself. The best thing anybody can do for you is to pray fervently, preferably with fasting, for you. It'll be great to see this unfortunate journey of yours end well with great testimony here. Otherwise, it won't be long before you come here denouncing Jesus and the Bible in total. If you can reject the Jesus of the Bible and call what you read in some parts of the Bible a myth, claiming it is so because other Bible authors did not mention it, you're way past dangerous territory. 3 Likes |
Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by truthislight: 12:12am On Jul 28, 2014 |
ayoku777: Where did you get "cannot sin" from ? We said inherited sin. Does inherited sin means cannot sin ? Smh for you. |
Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by truthislight: 12:16am On Jul 28, 2014 |
ayoku777: What do you mean by the above ? |
Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by truthislight: 12:22am On Jul 28, 2014 |
According to the flesh, Jesus was a man, not half man. That Yahweh blew into The nostrial of Adam the breath of life = his spirit, it did not prevent Adam from being a man. I dont know what you mean from "half man and half god". Take it to those that teach that and dont blame the bible for such. Peace. |
Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by Nobody: 12:36am On Jul 28, 2014 |
nlMediator: Spoken like the true religious man that you are. Fortunately I am not one of your religious adherents who cowers at threats , I wish to discuss important matters , if you cannot provide a good answer then move on. However , I am really worried for those people who you preach to. Is this how you try to intimidate them when they ask rationale and fair questions ? You do know that this is how Islam operates , right ? i.e you must not ask any questions , just believe . Smh. Allow me enjoy my liberty in Christ. 1 Like |
Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by ayoku777(m): 1:08am On Jul 28, 2014 |
frosbel: I understand what you're trying to say, but I disagree with that thought. There is something fundamentally wrong with that theory. You are insinuating that Jesus is like everyone of us, except that He didn't sin. Or atleast that He was like every other great servant of God that came before Him, except that He obeyed God better than they all did and was perfect. First and foremost, Jesus is not like any one of us because He pre-existed His own birth. He was with the Father since the foundation of the earth. And while i agree with you that He was also the seed of the woman, meaning He got His body from the woman; even so that body was His tabernacle. Jesus pre-existed that body and His birth John 8v58 -Jesus saith unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS, I AM. John 17v5 -And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD So while He got His tabernacle (body) from the woman, the Jesus that dwelt in that body was the Word of God that was before all things and created all things, the Only begotten of the Father from eternity past. That was the seed of the Father. So I will agree with you if you say, The seed of the Father (Jesus The Word)dwelt in the seed of the woman (flesh and blood). Another passage to prove Jesus the word pre-existed His tabernacle -His body. Hebrews 10v5 -Wherefore when He cometh into the world, He saith, sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, BUT A BODY HAST THOU PREPARED ME. Jesus is Son of God and Son of man fully. And only through faith in His death and resurrection can we be saved and made right with God. Let me stop here now. We need to let the scriptures guide our opinion, not just what makes sense to our mind. 3 Likes |
Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by ayoku777(m): 1:22am On Jul 28, 2014 |
truthislight:I mean its so much easier and religiously "correct" to say Jesus was not made in the likeness of sinful flesh, but can that be defended without trying to twist what was written? I'm open to your take and interpretation on that. |
Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by ayoku777(m): 1:29am On Jul 28, 2014 |
truthislight:Please, do share your point of view. My opinions are not cast in iron. I'm all for truth not for being right or winning an argument. 1 Like |
Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by nlMediator: 1:35am On Jul 28, 2014 |
frosbel: Where's the threat? Can you point it out to me? No, I did not threaten you and have no interest in doing so. Apparently, you're afraid of your own shadow. I only pointed out the lie you're basing your position on. And mercifully, you could not defend it. Nor prove that your belief leads to any better outcome regarding human sinfulness than the one you attack. 1 Like |
Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by asodeboyede(m): 3:03am On Jul 28, 2014 |
Apatheist: You keep pushing this, Frosbel, you're going to lose your faith. He has lost it already! 2 Likes |
Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by ayoku777(m): 7:34am On Jul 28, 2014 |
FROSBEL let me first get your convictions about some basic biblical doctrines. 1. Do you agree that man is a SPIRIT living in a body with a soul (in a soul-vitalized body)? 2. Do you agree that Jesus pre-existed His birth and was the Son of God before He was born? 3. Do you believe we are all sinners because of imputed sin from Adam or we are sinners by what we do personally? 4. Do you believe we are saved and justified through the imputed righteousness of Christ by our faith in His death and resurrection or by our own right living? Let me stop with this ones for now. Note Frosbel , these are NOT trick questions. We need to know where we are on a map before we can navigate where we're going on the map. I want to know your convictions about these basic doctrines. 1 Like |
Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by Nobody: 10:42am On Jul 28, 2014 |
nlMediator: oh yes, I know you religious fellas, lol. You never answer the question, instead you prevent people from understanding relevant truths by telling them they are deviating from the right path. You see the difference between me and you is I do not do HERD MENTALITY, I use the brain God has blessed me with to reason and come to an informed conclusion. After all we all have the anointing to teach is individually, no ? Apostle John said this. 1 Like |
Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by Nobody: 11:07am On Jul 28, 2014 |
ayoku777: FROSBEL let me first get your convictions about some basic biblical doctrines. Lets discuss this in a separate article. 1 Like |
Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by nep2ra(m): 11:47am On Jul 28, 2014 |
nlMediator: Cut the bull crap, amigo! 1 Like |
Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by Ubenedictus(m): 1:05pm On Jul 28, 2014 |
frosbel: it seems i came late. Let me take a look at the thread before i jump in. |
Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by jayriginal: 1:44pm On Jul 28, 2014 |
Goshen360: Why could he not be fashioned from mud the way Adam was? Why should the process of his coming into existence be half biological, half miraculous? The same God that fashioned humanity from mud and bone forgot his old parlour tricks? I mean something smells really bad here! 1 Like |
Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by Ubenedictus(m): 2:20pm On Jul 28, 2014 |
frosbel: ^^^i noticed your no.3, you say you believe Jesus chose not to sin, not that he was born sinless. So please explain, do you think that Jesus was born according to the adamic nature, without grace and a child of wrath like everyone else? I think my question is have you also thrown away the teaching of original sin? Right now i don't know where to start, i can understand if you don't really like mary and all thing concerning her, i was around when you rejected both the trinity, the divinity of Christ and his pre existence, i was around when you shared your concerns that the catholic church corrupted the bible, it seems you may soon reject the virgin birth of Jesus, so please tell me so i can know where to begin. |
Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by Ubenedictus(m): 2:30pm On Jul 28, 2014 |
frosbel: ^^^^i see we are back to your main point, "it can't be right because the catholic church infected it". |
Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by Ayomivic(m): 5:22pm On Jul 28, 2014 |
frosbel: It has often been said that Mary conceived without a Man and gave birth to Jesus, but I am beginning to doubt certain parts of this story for the following reasons : Man is begin to loose when he starts to think that he is as wise as God. When the scripture say Elija would come before Christ, i believe people would be expecting Elijta to come in thesame power and face as he had come before. I believe people can never think of John to be the Elija tha surpose to come if not Jesus that reveal identity of John the baptize to us ,some would have stil expecting him to come and because of that they would reject Jesus as Christ. First let me ask you, which tribe in Israel will you count Jesus to be if not the tribe of Judea? The Bible made it know that Jesus was from the tribe of David because Joseph who is Mary's husband was from David's tribe (Judea) he was bred and raised by Joseph.People knew him to be his son, he and Joseph's sons were together as family. Who's son do we have to call him?Which tribe do we have to count him in Isael? If God does not want him to be regarded as tribe of David why did he have to be raised by Joseph and not other man from other tribes in Isael? Moreover, the scripture does not say Jesus would be father by man in Judea. "And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and the branch shall grow out of his roots. And the spirit of the lord shall rest upon, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and the fear of the lord.And he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears" Isaiah 11:1-3 The first sentence in the above verses does not say Jesus will be father by Judea man. Correct me if am wrong " And there shall come forth a rod from the stem of Jesse" here ,Joseph is the rod that came forth out of the stem of Jesse. "And the branch shall grow out of his root" Jesus is the branch that grew out of his root (Joseph) what people thought is that " branch shall grow out of his root" should mean bear a child but the true is that the Scripture did not tell precisely how that branch would grow out of the root of Jesse. It was when Jesus born that we now saw how that branch grew out of the root of Jesse. because the root of Jesse was the one that raised him and stood as father for him. Jesus is not a stem like Joseph but a branch that grew from Joseph. 3 Likes |
Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by Nobody: 7:45pm On Jul 28, 2014 |
^^^ Brother you have completely bastardised the scriptures to support an erroneous position. In fact I can even see an unwitting lie in one of your updates. Please do not lie or twist scripture to defend God, God's truth will stand on its own merit. I do not have my laptop with me now , once I do, expect a more comprehensive response. Thanks. |
Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by Nobody: 1:25pm On Jul 29, 2014 |
Hmmmn @ayomivic..so is the spirit of the Lord resting on the rod( Joseph) or branch(Jesus) if we are to follow your revelations? |
Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by Nobody: 8:07pm On Jul 29, 2014 |
Ayomivic: And you point is ? The Bible made it know that Jesus was from the tribe of David because Joseph who is Mary's husband was from David's tribe (Judea) he was bred and raised by Joseph.People knew him to be his son, he and Joseph's sons were together as family. Who's son do we have to call him?Which tribe do we have to count him in Isael? Sorry but the bolded does not make sense. Moreover, the scripture does not say Jesus would be father by man in Judea. LIE ! A branch comes from the stem and the stem comes from the root and the root comes from the seed , so that they are all related not by adoption but by natural birth, I mean Jesus Christ in this case was to come from the seed of David not by adoption but by blood relation. To suggest otherwise is bordering on falsehood. what people thought is that " branch shall grow out of his root" should mean bear a child but the true is that the Scripture did not tell precisely how that branch would grow out of the root of Jesse. It was when Jesus born that we now saw how that branch grew out of the root of Jesse. because the root of Jesse was the one that raised him and stood as father for him. Jesus is not a stem like Joseph but a branch that grew from Joseph. A complete and frabricated LIE !! "For the Scriptures clearly state that the Messiah will be born of the royal line of David, in Bethlehem, the village where King David was born." - John 7:42 Clearly says that he will be born from the line of David not adopted or raised by someone else. " Behold, the days are coming," declares the LORD, "When I will raise up for David a righteous Branch; And He will reign as king and act wisely And do justice and righteousness in the land" - Jeremiah 23:5 Again , Jesus coming from the seed of David. "A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse; from his roots a Branch will bear fruit." - Isaiah 11:1 Again clearly establishing that Jesus was to come from the direct blood line of David Some other easy to understand verse of scripture : "concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh" - Romans 1:3 The MYTH of half-god and half-man is simply a tale of legend and was borrowed from Pagans with the even more dubious and intentional manipulation of scriptural text to support this LIE. 1 Like |
Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by Ubenedictus(m): 9:28pm On Jul 29, 2014 |
frosbel:so your point is that the biological father of Jesus is Joseph and that the gospel of luke is a fraud? I have a feeling you may soon be making your own canon. |
Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by jayriginal: 12:04am On Jul 30, 2014 |
jayriginal: frosbel: Cant be frosbel. Cant be the fire breathing, Israel loving, muslim fighting, atheist hating frosbel. Same frosbel who said atheists have no souls and can be killed like mosquitoes? Denying the virgin birth? A critical article of faith? Denying hell? Whats next? I asked you to take it on faith but you wont listen. Ok, let me give you another chance. A certain religion believes in Jesus. That religion believes that the laws of God are perfect. In short, Joseph stuck his wood(en) boner (you know how carpenters do) in Mary and they birthed Jesus. Its still a virgin birth because according to them, the spirit in Jesus was a fresh spirit (the religion believes in reincarnation) and had no karma to work off (hence without sin). Kinda makes sense. What say ye? |
Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by Nobody: 6:04am On Jul 30, 2014 |
frosbel: Yes you are right in that the messiahh would be a blood descendant of David!!! But this prophecy never said his father would be a blood descendant of David.The prophecy was fulfilled in the messiah sourcing his humanity from the mother Mary who was descended from the tribe of Mary 1 Like |
Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by malvisguy212: 9:41am On Jul 30, 2014 |
nlMediator:when you tell them the truth, this is there usual reply"you are threaten me with hell or punishment"even doug they know that they are paying for the sin of adam, they just want to here this word "no punishment for sinner and there excuse to back there claim is, why will a loving God put me in everlasting fir?" my brother you spoke well. A RIGHTEOUS MAN WILL NEVER BE THREATEN BY WORD.keep on the good work Bro. |
Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by malvisguy212: 9:52am On Jul 30, 2014 |
asodeboyede:he has not lost it, I think he just want to be careful, this is what is in his mind" what if christianity is wrong? Let me find my way to God" no other religion explain salvation the way christianity explain it, I strongly believe , when he get the right answer, his faith in christ will multiply. |
Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by malvisguy212: 10:01am On Jul 30, 2014 |
jayriginal:God breath his spirit into adam and he became a living soul, but when satan deceive man, man lost everytin, the reason JESUS was born of the spirit of God is because man need to adopt the nature of Godliness, and all other prophet were born of a sinful nature SO WE NEED JESUS. |
Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by jayriginal: 10:22am On Jul 30, 2014 |
malvisguy212: God breath his spirit into adam and he became a living soul, but when satan deceive man, man lost everytin, the reason JESUS was born of the spirit of God is because man need to adopt the nature of Godliness, and all other prophet were born of a sinful nature SO WE NEED JESUS. Oga you have not answered me. Im asking why Jesus had to come into existence through a half biological and half miraculous process. |
Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by Nobody: 11:05am On Jul 30, 2014 |
frosbel: It has often been said that Mary conceived without a Man and gave birth to Jesus, but I am beginning to doubt certain parts of this story for the following reasons : You are on the right path brother Frosbel. Question everything! Your questions are what Christians are scared to ask. Jesus was obviously born as a result of a sexual intercourse,be it by "God" or a Jewish man. The Jewish only counted men,and Jesus being a seed of David could have only come from a Jewish man the Bible went silent on. The Bible is not historically accurate,so they must have delibartely ommited the biological father of Jesus. When you begin to read the Bible with a straight mind,you will find a lot of stories that do not make sense..... The Bible also is a combination of different stories that happened in other civilizations. Most of these stories have no form of eveidence they actually happened in Israel. The whole point of the Bible is to make the Zionist look superior to other people by claiming "God" is on their side. 3 Likes |
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