semitunde:

Well, there are part of our history that isn't documented enough so I can't say if this is online, bet let me introduce you to Joe S. Tarka. A Tiv, he's seen as the father or modern day Tiv land nay Benue state. He was a good friend of Awolowo and learnt a lot from him. He revolutionised the development of the old Benue state and is seen as the pride if the state, but he personally was grateful to Awolowo for the insight and initiative, especially as regards agriculture.

To a lesser extent people like Joe Akaahan and Katsina Ala also has same relationship.

Since the sixties till date a lot of Tivs have had families in the West, especially Ibadan.

Do you know the Tilley Gyados? Popular family in Benue state, both strategically and in wealth. Do you know theres a Yoruba arm of the family?

I can go on. And my point is, if and when there are connections, ties between people already, either culturally or otherwise, its easier to table a discussion even with nothing as collateral. The truth is, their people on both sides and their survival can be convincing collateral enough.

semitunde:

Its funny how you guys pull facts from different directions and marsh them.together...

First from a neutral perspective, the $20 policy was the right thing. You won't get that in the aftermath of many wars. Secondly, $20 at that time made anyone a rich man. And since its difficult to know exactly those who had more, I must say there we're lots of those who had less and were grateful for this policy as a grant for business start up. This is apart from the fact that most igbo got their properties in the west back. But good historyis easy to forget when its necessary to hate.

But then everything that had happened to the Igbo has been seen from a myopic perspective anyways.

I don't know if you're being smarter by half when you wrongly spelt Jakande. I won't be drawn into such though.

I'll leave your other point for someone else to to put holes in. My last post on this thread.

pazienza:


Yolobas are not going to deny the North access to the sea, they wouldn't do that, they didn't do that in the past and will not do that now.

Marching an Igbo army towards Yolobaland in hope of teaming up with a Yoloba army that would help you deny the north access to the sea, would be the highest height of naivety and playing into Yoloba games and handing them more cards to play with. It would mean repeating Ojukwu's mistakes.

Normality: Too much Oyinbo for dis thread, I prefer "walk the walk and talk the talk".

Land of the rising sun. U feel me?

Ahuitzotl: You are gettin the whole thing wrong.None of the prime igbo military actions stated above in the Southwest involve the direct assistance of the yorobars.The Biafran armoured thrust west will take advantage of the thin spread of northern occupation units across a large area of land mass, the north fighting two fronts at the same time and political situation of the forcefully conscripted yorobars fleein their units to join the guerrila resistance in the west or remaining in the army as moles to sabotage war efforts for the cause of their guerrila counterparts which indirectly will play into our hands as we quickly take up choke points in the Southwest thus cutting off the north from the sea and vital military imports.The role of the yorobars in this scenario is diversionary,independent and indirect from our own objectives...…

Ahuitzotl: [b]More like a pincer manoeurver...i see your point but you must understand that the situation will be akin to nazi germany in the WW11 where they had to faceoff western allies in the west and russia in the east thus reducing their potency on both side of the fronts with a resounding defeat likewise the north will be forced to fight an exhaustive war on two fronts;Debilitating guerrila war in the west launched by christian yorobars from Benin Republic and a war of attrition with the [b][/b]Imperial Biafran Army.Remember most Yorubas conscripted against their will into the northern occupation army won't fight as committed as those on the other side of the two fronts thus the northern occupation army will be prone to desertion and sabotage invariably collapsing it as Eastern choke points are established from the midwest corridor into the South West.This action will cut off the hinterland north from the coast thus starving them of imports and supply whilst creatin an encirclement of those trapped below our choke points to be annhilated or interned as POWs.The North will try a counter invasion to relieve its forces in the south but will get bogged down by skirmishes in the middle belt, a dwindling supply of much needed military hardware imports and is eventually crushed by a combined military blockade of the coastal supply route and a reverse biafran armoured thrust,takin advantage of the thin spread of a hardware starved army spread across a large extensive area, starting with a river crossing at Lokoja before hammering into Abuja, a circling of Zaria and an occupation of Kaduna forcing the North to the negotiating table.....It is best the North comin off an annexation of the South West comes to an agreement with the igbos thus isolating the yorobars from potential assistance,secure their exposed eastern flank and secure the Southwest port and coast...for a strong northern economy.[/b]

Ahuitzotl: You are gettin the whole thing wrong.None of the prime igbo military actions stated above in the Southwest involve the direct assistance of the yorobars.The Biafran armoured thrust west will take advantage of the thin spread of northern occupation units across a large area of land mass, the north fighting two fronts at the same time and political situation of the forcefully conscripted yorobars fleein their units to join the guerrila resistance in the west or remaining in the army as moles to sabotage war efforts for the cause of their guerrila counterparts which indirectly will play into our hands as we quickly take up choke points in the Southwest thus cutting off the north from the sea and vital military imports.The role of the yorobars in this scenario is diversionary,independent and indirect from our own objectives...…

EMANY01:

I'm rolling over and laughing at this post.I just figured that his main goal is to piss some people off mightily and the crazy thing is it's working.
If you read his posts carefully you will find that he is not at all delusional as he might sound right off the bat he just wants to push someone/some peoples buttons and then sit in a corner and watch them fume.If this wasn't a sad topic it might have been obvious to everyone including the intended targets of his goads or should I say taunts.

EasternLeopard:

Pushing westward will not being seen as liberation but as occupation by the myopic ones.

Best policies

1) Support guerrilla movements

2) Engage in secret submarine warfare in far away international waters against vessels transporting supplies for Arewa. These vessels could be that of Arewa or Non-Arewa.

Ahuitzotl: The myopic ones will not be at strength to do anything about the situation...@submarine warfare,we never reach that level....LOL..

pazienza:

Well,we have been expecting the sons of odua to talk the talk and walk the walk in Ilorin, but for many decades now, no show from odua sons, haha!

kettykin:

Is it the same Tiv people that were running from pillar to post when fulanis invaded their territory some months back preferring to become refugees in markudi than rally and cut the fulanis to size like Ombatse did.
Tiv tribe are a liability to any state or zone they find them selves.
They are another group of ingrates who rioted against hausa fulani domination in the 60s, who participated in the Nzeogwu coup through their son Atom Kpera but wasted no time in joining the north to fight igbos after the coup.

I have very little faith in the Tiv in the event of any conflict but would rather prefer the little known eggon tribe with their Ombatse


By the way what assistance did the yoruba offer their Tiv relatives when they were being pummelled and brutally assailed by fulani herdsmen some months back

torkaka:

The intelligence of some of you lot really needs to be put to question!!

Were the Tivs at war with the fulanis or was it a question of herdsmen attacking citizens of Nigeria?

Did the Tiv nation declare a nation and subsequently take up arms (war) against the Fulanis or was it a question of criminals terrorizing other citizens?

The problem with a lot of you jokers is that you mistake things like militancy for war amongst nations. For your information, that the niger-delta militants as well as the fulani herdsmen have carried arms against the state and citizens and have made a lot of noise doesn't mean jack, that is not war!!

By the time war starts and the polity arms itself, you will know the difference between Asari Dokubo and Simo Hayla!!

semitunde:

Its funny how you guys pull facts from different directions and marsh them.together...

First from a neutral perspective, the $20 policy was the right thing. You won't get that in the aftermath of many wars. Secondly, $20 at that time made anyone a rich man. And since its difficult to know exactly those who had more, I must say there we're lots of those who had less and were grateful for this policy as a grant for business start up. This is apart from the fact that most igbo got their properties in the west back. But good historyis easy to forget when its necessary to hate.

But then everything that had happened to the Igbo has been seen from a myopic perspective anyways.

I don't know if you're being smarter by half when you wrongly spelt Jakande. I won't be drawn into such though.

I'll leave your other point for someone else to to put holes in. My last post on this thread.

SamIkenna:

You wrote the emboldened and yet you wonder why our relationship is tenuous. I 've stopped x-raying why supposedly intelligent and normal people support evil. The support for that policy was, is, and will eternally be evil. If the architects of that policy wanted a people to rob only, then fine. But to rob a people you starved to death, destroyed the land, and are still to be included as citizens and patriots in their dream all inclusive one Nigeria, then I say they lost their dam** minds. Tell me what Nigeria would have lost if they avoided that 20 pounds and abandoned property policy? Tell me now, how has the one Nigeria paid off given the policy in question? Perhaps it was good policy for some folks back then but as action and reaction set in, it turns out that the policy only succeeded in creating a bulk of people with burning rage against their country. There's absolutely no Easterner who believes Nigeria is capable of delivering justice and if you think its only an Igbo thing then go ask Gov Akpabio. War is war and robbery is robbery. When you rob those you defeated, common sense dictates you, at the very least, don't intend or pretend to live with them in the same enclave - you take your loot and off you go. So you see, when you support 20 pounds policy and I see you praise the same Lord with me on Sundays or claim you're fighting an unjust fuel subsidy removal or that you sincerely feel the pains of the Boko Haram devastation, I cringe.

Anyways, I believe its imperative that I correct an impression you got from my last post which is that Igbo will go to war because of pride. While we would not be the first nation to do that in the history of humanity, I'm unshakably certain that such stupidity will never take place. In 1967 we went home but Nigeria, with a coalition of vultures, jihadists, headhunters, and Christian-islamists butt-lickers, followed us leaving 3 million of us dead and our land desolate. Today, by God's mercies we're here and the same people are talking about launching another campaign in the East should Nigeria crumbles, when they should be talking about how to secure their borders. Well, I wish them luck in this 'dream' war effort in the Eastern front but its obvious we'll be waiting - and let it be clear that we wont engage because of pride rather we'll engage because of the existential threat posed by same people with same agenda - that's what I and others have been trying to get across.

emiye:
What was the saner option to the 20 pounds policy?

Is it to open the central bank vaults, and dole out cash to every ibo people who claims to have money in the banks ? , claims that can not be substantiated . Records were lost in the war.

Awolowo fought and ensured everyone gets at least 20pounds rather than nothing, which some other stakeholders wanted.

SamIkenna:

Same defense all the time. At least you're not being rude about it so I will reciprocate a bit. Ask yourself, what's the value of 20 pounds both then and now? Where was the war fought? in Biafra or Nigeria? If you say claims could not be verified what did Nigerian Govt do to at least verify or pretend to verify? The documents in Nigeria banks did they go up in flames with the war? Did Nigerian govt order the banks to verify names of Igbos who claimed they had money in the said banks using their names and photos? Or was the policy a flat policy/punishment irrespective of the validity of claims? Tell me exactly what they did to verify even a single claim. Parroting that most Igbos had taken their money in their flight to Biafra does not mean everyone did, so what the did govt do to verify one single claim. That line of argument is unreservedly shallow at best. The point is this: It happened it happened, and I accept that. But its insulting to our sensibilities when you come back 44 years to defend evil and think it does not have the possibility of creating monsters out of the victims. Nations apologize and make atonement for past ills but you defend and justify this evil by saying nothing could be better than 20 pounds. Well, looking at the peace and pieces of Nigeria today, are you amazed how things turned out the way it did? Tell me now, do you have the 'One Nigeria' you coined because of the war? After these years are we not back to square one killing and threatening each other? So, how do you like the policy now?

And please for God's sake! would you folks stop this Awo fought and made sure we got gold and silver, that's utter BS. Taking my gold and giving me a cast iron is not fighting for me - its one of the greatest sleight of hand in this hemisphere.

That’s what I did, and the case of the money they said was not given back to them, you know during the war all the pounds were looted, they printed Biafran currency notes, which they circulated, at the close of the war some people wanted their Biafran notes to be exchanged for them. Of course I couldn’t do that, if I did that the whole country would be bankrupt. We didn’t know about Biafran notes and we didn’t know on what basis they have printed them, so we refused the Biafran note, but I laid down the principle that all those who had savings in the banks on the eve of the declaration of the Biafran war or Biafra, will get their money back if they could satisfy us that they had the savings there, or the money there. Unfortunately, all the banks’s books had been burnt, and many of the people who had savings there didn’t have their saving books or their last statement of account, so a panel had to be set up.

I didn’t take part in setting up the panel, it was done by the Central bank and the pertinent officials of the ministry of finance, to look into the matter, and they went carefully into the matter, they took some months to do so, and then make some recommendation which I approved. Go to the archives, all I did was approve, I didn’t write anything more than that, I don’t even remember the name of any of them who took part. So I did everything in this world to assist our Ibo brothers and sisters during and after the war.

And anyone who goes back to look at my broadcast in August 1967, which dealt with post-war reconstruction would see what I said there.

emiye:
Can you verify with no records. Records were lost, nothing to verify claims, dont get unduely emotional over the painful truth.
Awolowo's words TWENTY POUNDS POLICY

pazienza: On Awo's 20pounds policy, from a Yoloba perspective,there is nothing wrong with that, it was simply an aftermath of the civil war, Awo wanted to gain an economic power for his Yolobar peeps, perhaps in readiness for his planned coup in the future, which failed not for lack of planning, but for betrayal by his people.
He was a master planner with a master plan to place his people at the very top in Nigeria, Economically and politically.
As an Igbo,it doesn't make sense to start crying over Awo's policies, the real anger should be towards Ojukwu and his crew that allowed Awo to outsmart them and used us as pawns in his power game.
If placed in Awo's position, i would do to the Yolobas 1 million times what Awo did to Ndiigbo,just to Elevate Ndiigbo to the top.
The world is not a fair place, you either eat or get eaten, there are no neutral grounds, real men understand this. If Ndiigbo understand this, we would stop looking outwards for why what happened to us in the 60's and post 1970, we would start looking inwards, learn from our mistakes, and plan better in the future.

SamIkenna:

Same defense all the time. At least you're not being rude about it so I will reciprocate a bit. Ask yourself, what's the value of 20 pounds both then and now? Where was the war fought? in Biafra or Nigeria? If you say claims could not be verified what did Nigerian Govt do to at least verify or pretend to verify? The documents in Nigeria banks did they go up in flames with the war? Did Nigerian govt order the banks to verify names of Igbos who claimed they had money in the said banks using their names and photos? Or was the policy a flat policy/punishment irrespective of the validity of claims? Tell me exactly what they did to verify even a single claim. Parroting that most Igbos had taken their money in their flight to Biafra does not mean everyone did, so what the did govt do to verify one single claim. That line of argument is unreservedly shallow at best. The point is this: It happened it happened, and I accept that. But its insulting to our sensibilities when you come back 44 years to defend evil and think it does not have the possibility of creating monsters out of the victims. Nations apologize and make atonement for past ills but you defend and justify this evil by saying nothing could be better than 20 pounds. Well, looking at the peace and pieces of Nigeria today, are you amazed how things turned out the way they did? Tell me now, do you have the 'One Nigeria' you coined because of the war? After these years are we not back to square one killing and threatening each other? So, how do you like the policy now?

And please for God's sake! would you folks stop this Awo fought and made sure we got gold and silver, that's utter BS. Taking my gold and giving me a cast iron is not fighting for me - its one of the greatest sleight of hand in this hemisphere.

emiye:

Can you verify with no records. Records were lost, nothing to verify claims, dont get unduely emotional over the painful truth.


Awolowo's words TWENTY POUNDS POLICY

HappyJoe:

Let's forget about the "twenty pounds" for a moment. After every major war there should be DDR - Disarmament, Demobilization & Rehabilitation. After the Second World War, Germans were beneficiaries of the "Marshal Plan" - even though Germany was the major antagonist. In other words, the US gave the average German A LOT more than twenty pounds.

Awolowo was an intelligent & well informed person, he was well aware of the Marshal Plan & what post-war re-integration should entail, but he was the architect of a deliberately vindictive post-war re-integration plan - a fact that even his most erstwhile admirers cannot disprove.

But Awolowo failed woefully, with the help of the Igbo diaspora, the Catholic Church and community effort, Ndigbo & their neighbours were able to move forward in spite of being victims of Africa's most devastating war.

Akpabio alluded to this "if you talk reconstruction and reconciliation, why did reconstruction start from Lagos & wasn't done in the Southeast"?

Yoruba people will never understand this, but people from the Northeast recovering from Boko Haram will. They will tell you how difficult it is to recover from Boko Haram if they've lost everything & were only given £20 (a little over N5,000).

They say "another person's child's corpse" looks like a log of wood to strangers - this is why I don't bother arguing with Yorubas about the Civil War, they will never understand. Arguing with them is a waste of my time.

EasternLeopard:


The capital of Nigeria then was Lagos


Most banks headoffice will be in Lagos

Therefore a copy of their bank statement will be in the headoffice and central vault.


Son

The point you don't know is that Awo realised that Yorubas were not financially positioned to take over Nigeria or secede or protect their independence. All he needed to do was to empower his people by hook or crook. Which he achieved through indigenization and 20pounds policies.

The same Awo who said West was not in a position to secede was the same Awo who planned an armed insurrection 29 years later.

Son think deep

torkaka:

You called for a war, looted the banks and burnt all the available records. Months later, you lost the war and was given 20 pounds (which was a lot of money then, if I may add) to rehabilitate yourselves.

And you have the guts to complain? Awolowo should be worshipped by each and everyone of you, for in a war, the winner takes all.

If Awo had not given that 20pounds, I bet you, non of you would be talking war here!

torkaka:

Real time banking wasn't a 1960's thing!!

SamIkenna:

But you want 5% first-line-of-charge/terror incentive from our national purse and wonder why we're standing in your way...
Who's the beggar and Almajiri now? How do you like us now?

EasternLeopard:

The only difference then and now is computerization

Son we all make mistakes but it is a dishonourable thing to deny them.


So accept it that Awo did it to empower you guys to a position of strength to takeover, secede or defend your independence.

torkaka:

Really? That's the only difference? You are a huge joke!!