OK. That's a long one. I'm going to reply only to the first paragraph in bold as it is the only part directly relevant to this thread.

Current scholarly understanding places the ancestral proto-Bantu homeland near the modern boundary of Nigeria and Cameroon

Please, take a long calm look at an ethnographic map of Nigeria and tell me which ethnic groups live near the modern boundary of Nigeria and Cameroon. Are they Igbo?

Why do u want to jump over the heads of groups like the Ibibio-Efik, the Ekoid groups, the various groups of the old Ogoja Province etc who live near that boundary and whose languages are actually related to Bantu languages, to claim a special connection to the Igbos who live farther to the west and whose language is not Bantu-related (except in the sense that the most West African languages belong to the same super phylum as the Bantu language - Niger-Congo)?

According to Greenberg and Guthrie who you quoted (and their theories have been echoed and confirmed by many other scholars since), Igbos are linguistically more connected to the Idoma, the Nupe, the Yoruba and the Edo than to the Bantu and related folk. Our own homeland (according to the scholars) is the Niger-Benue Confluence area in Central Nigeria. From there the proto-Yoruboid-, -Edoid, -Igboid-speakers struck southwest, southcentral and southeast, respectively. Bantu-related-language -speakers were already inhabiting the Nigeria-Cameroon border when Igbo speakers (or Igbo linguistic influence) reached the eastern periphery of the present-day Igbo speech area. This explains the many traditions of clashes between immigrant Igbo elements with Bantu-related elements in that region. Therefore, given what scholars now know to have been the most likely scenario, it is difficult to understand ur argument: How can a people who found aboriginal Bantu-related aborigines when they reached the Cross River region (which is part of the proto-Bantu homeland) less than a thousand year ago (going by the evidence of oral traditions) be the origin stock of the ethnolinguistic group that started moving out of that area 4000 years ago? Does that make sense to u?

...Bantu languages had strong ancestral affinities with a group of languages spoken in South Easter Nigeria (home of Ndigbo; read SE/SS)

Another classic case of misunderstanding and misinterpretation. You must learn not to approach works of social anthropology with
your sense of political geography. South East here is not the 5 Igbo states of the SE geo-political zone. I've read works were Calabar

I've read works where Calabar was referred to as a 'trading state in pre-Colonial Southeastern Nigeria'

The group of languages in 'South Eastern' Nigeria with ancestral Bantu affinities are (as every scholar knows) NOT the language(s) of the Ndigbo, but the languages of the East Benue group whose speakers live in that region. I've already mentioned some of these groups. I'll add here the Ogoni and the Andoni of the Eastern Niger Delta.

If u have proof of Igbo and Bantu relationship I'm still waiting for them. Ur above post contains nothing that can be remotely accepted as evidence.

axum:


[b]Many linguistics do not consider hausa as Afroasiatic.[/b]Notice that Semetic, Cushitic, Omatic are all found in the Horn. Notice the DNA of the people who are in North Africa (similar to Cushitic people), notice the easiest way out of Africa is from the Horn via the Nile river and the Red sea into Yemen.

That's a flipping lie. Show me your sources that state that. Many linguist state Chadic/Hausa is an AA language. If Chadic is not AA then Berber is not AA.

Ihuomadinihu:
Igbos were in Eastern Nigerian long before tales of recent migration. The axis within Awka,Orlu and Isiukwuato have no migration tales,however the Abakaliki,Arochukwu people are the recent migratants form hinter igbolands that settled and absorbed smaller non igbo groups.

Doesn't mean they were Bantu.

KidStranglehold:

Doesn't mean they were Bantu.

I did not mention bantu,i just made an important point.

Radoillo:
Have u come across any material that shows Igbo are related to Bantus... Or to use OP's words 'were proto-Bantu? Let's start from there.

Seriously? I asked first...start from there or forget about the bantu stuff.

Radoillo: OK. That's a long one. I'm going to reply only to the first paragraph in bold as it is the only part directly relevant to this thread.



Please, take a long calm look at an ethnographic map of Nigeria and tell me which ethnic groups live near the modern boundary of Nigeria and Cameroon. Are they Igbo?

Why do u want to jump over the heads of groups like the Ibibio-Efik, the Ekoid groups, the various groups of the old Ogoja Province etc who live near that boundary and whose languages are actually related to Bantu languages, to claim a special connection to the Igbos who live farther to the west and whose language is not Bantu-related (except in the sense that the most West African languages belong to the same super phylum as the Bantu language - Niger-Congo)?

According to Greenberg and Guthrie who you quoted (and their theories have been echoed and confirmed by many other scholars since), Igbos are linguistically more connected to the Idoma, the Nupe, the Yoruba and the Edo than to the Bantu and related folk. Our own homeland (according to the scholars) is the Niger-Benue Confluence area in Central Nigeria. From there the proto-Yoruboid-, -Edoid, -Igboid-speakers struck southwest, southcentral and southeast, respectively. Bantu-related-language -speakers were already inhabiting the Nigeria-Cameroon border when Igbo speakers (or Igbo linguistic influence) reached the eastern periphery of the present-day Igbo speech area. This explains the many traditions of clashes between immigrant Igbo elements with Bantu-related elements in that region. Therefore, given what scholars now know to have been the most likely scenario, it is difficult to understand ur argument: How can a people who found aboriginal Bantu-related aborigines when they reached the Cross River region (which is part of the proto-Bantu homeland) less than a thousand year ago (going by the evidence of oral traditions) be the origin stock of the ethnolinguistic group that started moving out of that area 4000 years ago? Does that make sense to u?



Another classic case of misunderstanding and misinterpretation. You must learn not to approach works of social anthropology with
your sense of political geography. South East here is not the 5 Igbo states of the SE geo-political zone. I've read works were Calabar

Pls,this immigrants igbo element tales should be restricted to Abia/Cross rivers borders. We don't want to give off the idea that all igbo groups suddenly migrated from God knows where to displace the 'Bantus'.

Ihuomadinihu:
Pls,this immigrants igbo element tales should be restricted to Abia/Cross rivers borders. We don't want to give off the idea that all igbo groups suddenly migrated from God knows where to displace the 'Bantus'.

in my post which u quoted and in one of my responses to Kidstranglehold, I clearly stated where the displacement occurred (Cross River region).

Ihuomadinihu:
Seriously? I asked first...start from there or forget about the bantu stuff.

It make more sense to ask for evidence that X happened, than to ask for evidence that X did not happen.

You don't ask a man to present evidence that a green bird did not fly over his roof while he was asleep; if u say a green bird did fly over his roof, you present the evidence.

In any case, I have, in my reply to igbodefender explained why i believe Igbos are distinct from Bantu. Its not an original idea. Experts in the social sciences have agreed on this for decades.

If i get an intelligent refutation of the ideas I've expressed, I'll come back and respond. Otherwise, I'm done with this thread

Radoillo:

It make more sense to ask for evidence that X happened, than to ask for evidence that X did not happen.

You don't ask a man to present evidence that a green bird did not fly over his roof while he was asleep; if u say a green bird did fly over his roof, you present the evidence.

In any case, I have, in my reply to igbodefender explained why i believe Igbos are distinct from Bantu. Its not an original idea. Experts in the social sciences have agreed on this for decades.

If i get an intelligent refutation of the ideas I've expressed, I'll come back and respond. Otherwise, I'm done with this thread

Lol,no need for flowery statements. I only asked a question earlier on,you either supply convincing answers or ignore the question. Bantu issue is still debateable,i could not find the article i was looking for. The Northwestern cameronains overlap with Southern-eastern Nigeria,igbos inclusive . I don't see any difference bwt igbos/Efiks and cameronians. Igbos are more clustered with the bantus of cameroon. The operating word should be proto -bantus.
#am out of this thread.

Radoillo:

It make more sense to ask for evidence that X happened, than to ask for evidence that X did not happen.

You don't ask a man to present evidence that a green bird did not fly over his roof while he was asleep; if u say a green bird did fly over his roof, you present the evidence.

In any case, I have, in my reply to igbodefender explained why i believe Igbos are distinct from Bantu. Its not an original idea. Experts in the social sciences have agreed on this for decades.

If i get an intelligent refutation of the ideas I've expressed, I'll come back and respond. Otherwise, I'm done with this thread

By the way, is Bantu not a linguistic group? Not sure it's a race or ethnicity.

KidStranglehold:

That's a flipping lie. Show me your sources that state that. Many linguist state Chadic/Hausa is an AA language. If Chadic is not AA then Berber is not AA.

Look at the people who speak Chadic and they way look.


Also Chadic and Berber have nothing in Common.

Chadic people look very Sudanic I mean tall, super dark and lanky. Kind of like the Dinkas and Nuers. In any case, that's besides the point. Let us keep this thread on topic. Are the Igbos the Proto-Bantus. I would love to hear what Igbo people think instead of all us non-Igbos.

Fulaman why have you allied yourself with the Fufu nation. Have they paid you?


When will you accept who you are? You are not a fufu eater.

adamskutty:

Mr. Fufu jumbo

axum:

Mr. Fufu jumbo

Mr. Fufu jumbo, kai! Mallam Ali how far nau?

Fulaman198: Chadic people look very Sudanic I mean tall, super dark and lanky. Kind of like the Dinkas and Nuers. In any case, that's besides the point. Let us keep this thread on topic. Are the Igbos the Proto-Bantus. I would love to hear what Igbo people think instead of all us non-Igbos.

Isn't Radiollo Igbo??

Personally am disappointed with many Igbo and how they play social promiscuity with their history.
Igbo need to really look into their history as it relates to them and not looking for the slightest opportunity to make ridiculous links with other cultures.

History is a beautiful thing, we all should strive to learn our history and persevere our identity

macof:

Isn't Radiollo Igbo??

Personally am disappointed with many Igbo and how they play social promiscuity with their history.
Igbo need to really look into their history as it relates to them and not looking for the slightest opportunity to make ridiculous links with other cultures.

History is a beautiful thing, we all should strive to learn our history and persevere our identity

Yes he is

Tags: datalossvictim1, bigfrancis21, odumchi

Oga fulaman198 how life nau?

adamskutty: Mr. Fufu jumbo, kai! Mallam Ali how far nau?

I need a translation, just cause I eat fufu one time doesnt mean I can speak the language

KidStranglehold:

Yeah its been a while.

Take came back to see watsup. This site seems dead though. I mostly been on the site named theColi. Should check it out. Alotta nonsense on there. Mad funny.

Miss posters like Royal, Kails, Cameroonpride, PapaAfrica and others. I still see Onila and Fulaman posting on here.

Cameroonpride is camnewton4pres

Fulaman198:

Cameroonpride is camnewton4pres

I wish Kails would come back.

Can those skeptical about Igbos being the aboriginal Bantus who contributed so much to Bantu civilization here explain why Bantu countries like Zimbabwe and Malawi have several names that share the 'Chi' prefix common in Igbo language? For instance Chinamasa (sounds like the Igbo name Chinasa) is a popular Zimbabwean name. Other Southern African names that share the 'Chi' prefix include' Chibundu' (sounds like the Igbo name Chinwendu) and Chikwemba.

PS: I'm sure if I didn't tell you these were Southern African names, you would think they were Igbo names. Don lie.

Source: [url]http://www.igbodefender.com/the-prevalence-of-chi-prefix-in-malawian-names-proves-igbos-were-earliest-bantus/
[/url]
Source: http://www.igbodefender.com/presence-of-chi-in-zimbabwean-names-prooves-igbos-were-earliest-bantus/

axum:


I wish Kails would come back.

Lol can't you simply just call your girlfriend?

igbodefender:
Can those skeptical about Igbos being the aboriginal Bantus who contributed so much to Bantu civilization here explain why Bantu countries like Zimbabwe and Malawi have several names that share the 'Chi' prefix common in Igbo language? For instance Chinamasa (sounds like the Igbo name Chinasa) is a popular Zimbabwean name. Other Southern African names that share the 'Chi' prefix include' Chibundu' (sounds like the Igbo name Chinwendu) and Chikwemba.

PS: I'm sure if I didn't tell you these were Southern African names, you would think they were Igbo names. Don lie.

Source: [url]http://www.igbodefender.com/the-prevalence-of-chi-prefix-in-malawian-names-proves-igbos-were-earliest-bantus/
[/url]
Source: http://www.igbodefender.com/presence-of-chi-in-zimbabwean-names-prooves-igbos-were-earliest-bantus/

Instead of stressing yourself looking for names that are igbo-like, u should check if the names mean anything similar to their sound alike in Igbo.
This would be vital in pushing your claims

There is nothing debatable about the Igbo-Bantu lack of relationship. A recognized, anthropological time discrepancy exists between the two groups that spans thousands of years. Add to that, Igbo-speaking communities do not border any Bantu-speaking communities, and linguists clearly affirm no genetic relationship between the two speech forms save for the larger language family classification. Seriouly, the foolishness and the psuedo-scholar nonsense needs to end.

*sigh*

The pseudo-linguistics again. You tried that before with some Igbo-sounding Japanese names. ChinenyeN and I expressed our disagreement and even tried to tell you that linguistics doesn't work like that. Now its the turn of Igbo-sounding Zimbabwean names.

Listen, bro. Like Macof has already hinted, before you can say that two similar-sounding words from two different langugages are related, you have to first show that the two words actually have THE SAME MEANING in the two languages, or at least that any slight difference in meaning can be adequately explained by semantic change over the course of time.

And after you have indeed established that the two similar-sounding words have the same meaning, you still have to eliminate the possibility that the similarity is merely coincidental by going further and finding hundreds, even thousands, of similar-sounding root-words with the same meanings in the two languages before you can even begin to postulate that the two languages may have sprung from a common source, or that one of the languages exerted considerable influence on the other.

This you have not done. You just sat in your living room one evening and heard the newscaster on TV mention a certain Patrick Chinamasa, and concluded (even though you have no idea whatsoever what Chinamasa means) that Chinamasa must be related to the Igbo name Chinasa.

Well, I have a very close friend from Zambia. She's Bemba and the Bembas also have scores of 'Chi' names. I'll give you a few of them that sound Igbo and their actual Bemba meanings.


Chiluba....it doesn't mean 'God, keep working'. It means 'Lost'.
Chikondi.....It's not related to 'Chikodiri' (It's up to God). It means 'Mercy'.

Chinaka....doesn't mean 'God proposes'. It means 'Tired/tiring'.
Chikumbutso....is not a corruption of 'Chimbuzo' (my God comes first). It means 'Reminder'.
Chisanga....is not a corruption of Chimsoaga (the God I follow). It means 'found'.

No degree of semantic change can explain these differences. They are simply different, completely unrelated words. I'm pretty certain that an examination of the Zimbabwean names you posted will yield similar (negative) results.

It is becoming clear to me that this desperation to link the Igbo with the Bantu-speakers stems from a desire to bask in the glory of Bantu historical achievements. On another post about the monuments of Great Zimbabwe, you made a comment about how the builders were Igbo because (according to you) the Bantu are descended from Igbos. That is sad, just sad. Behind your posts and comments I see a man who either doesn't know his history or finds what he knows to be too 'modest' and needs to spin romantic tales of lofty achievements to make himself feel better.

Take your nose off Bantu and Japanese and Hebrew and Yoruba histories and actually study your own. True, great conquering empires are not a theme in Igbo history, but you'll find remarkable ritual, socio-political and economic 'hegemonies', and impressive artistic traditions to be proud of.
There's a growing body of scholarship on various aspects of Igbo history. Take advantage of them.

Fulaman198:

Lol can't you simply just call your girlfriend?

She's not my girlfriend.

axum:


She's not my girlfriend.

It's a simple joke

Fulaman198:

It's a simple joke

Your jokes are neither funny nor simple. Please leave the comedy to me, since your jokes are as dry as the hair of a Bantu in the fufu jungle of Congo

Igbos; True Igbos must not follow just what others tell (read force-feed) them 'the truth' about themselves, but must inquire to uncover even those truths that have been hidden from them. And they must then shout it out from the mountain tops.