Chileke Ohna... you Igbodefender people are foolishly dense. It irks me.

LOL. Ihe nke a gwuru ike! Eziokwu m.

Radoillo: *sigh*

The pseudo-linguistics again. You tried that before with some Igbo-sounding Japanese names. ChinenyeN and I expressed our disagreement and even tried to tell you that linguistics doesn't work like that. Now its the turn of Igbo-sounding Zimbabwean names.

Listen, bro. Like Macof has already hinted, before you can say that two similar-sounding words from two different langugages are related, you have to first show that the two words actually have THE SAME MEANING in the two languages, or at least that any slight difference in meaning can be adequately explained by semantic change over the course of time.

And after you have indeed established that the two similar-sounding words have the same meaning, you still have to eliminate the possibility that the similarity is merely coincidental by going further and finding hundreds, even thousands, of similar-sounding root-words with the same meanings in the two languages before you can even begin to postulate that the two languages may have sprung from a common source, or that one of the languages exerted considerable influence on the other.

This you have not done. You just sat in your living room one evening and heard the newscaster on TV mention a certain Patrick Chinamasa, and concluded (even though you have no idea whatsoever what Chinamasa means) that Chinamasa must be related to the Igbo name Chinasa.

Well, I have a very close friend from Zambia. She's Bemba and the Bembas also have scores of 'Chi' names. I'll give you a few of them that sound Igbo and their actual Bemba meanings.


Chiluba....it doesn't mean 'God, keep working'. It means 'Lost'.
Chikondi.....It's not related to 'Chikodiri' (It's up to God). It means 'Mercy'.

Chinaka....doesn't mean 'God proposes'. It means 'Tired/tiring'.
Chikumbutso....is not a corruption of 'Chimbuzo' (my God comes first). It means 'Reminder'.
Chisanga....is not a corruption of Chimsoaga (the God I follow). It means 'found'.

No degree of semantic change can explain these differences. They are simply different, completely unrelated words. I'm pretty certain that an examination of the Zimbabwean names you posted will yield similar (negative) results.

[b]It is becoming clear to me that this desperation to link the Igbo with the Bantu-speakers stems from a desire to bask in the glory of Bantu historical achievements. [/b]On another post about the monuments of Great Zimbabwe, you made a comment about how the builders were Igbo because (according to you) the Bantu are descended from Igbos. That is sad, just sad. Behind your posts and comments I see a man who either doesn't know his history or finds what he knows to be too 'modest' and needs to spin romantic tales of lofty achievements to make himself feel better.

Take your nose off Bantu and Japanese and Hebrew and Yoruba histories and actually study your own. [b]True, great conquering empires are not a theme in Igbo history, [/b]but you'll find remarkable ritual, socio-political and economic 'hegemonies', and impressive artistic traditions to be proud of.
There's a growing body of scholarship on various aspects of Igbo history. Take advantage of them.

I couldn't give a sh*t about which African group historically did what (to me all it does is propagate undeserved pageantry to failure and belie the despair, savagery and poverty that wreck the entire continent).

However I have to correct your assumptions that Igbos seek to validate themselves by claiming that they were an empire building civilization when they create threads like this.

This is an utterly false assumption. Most Igbos that claim ties to external groups claim Jewish links and Jews are THE prototype of a group that has NEVER built an empire from time immemorial. Those Igbos and other disenfranchised groups (including African Americans) claim to be Jews for other obvious reasons. Also, majority of Igbos don't know what "Bantu" means anyway.

To most people objecting to this thread...anyone can go on the internet and claim to be a descendant, offspring or progenitor of any group. How does this affect you as a person?

Many groups have done this. I have read articles by white supremacists claiming that Northern Europeans were the progenitors of Egypt. Big laughable lie but what is my business and how does it put garri on my table?

I have read articles by other Nigerian groups that claim origins from middle-eastern regions. I was even taught this in a Nigerian school to boot.

So what? Why does one person claiming his ethnic ties to another group bother a lot of people so much if that person is Igbo.

I even read a post here by Pagan9ja admitting to this bias against Igbos and it tells me that that there are other motivations at play asides the avuncular advice to "accept and love yourself."

Or maybe it's a matter of peddling these claims in a more subtle, "sophisticated" way as is successfully done by other groups that don't attract such negative attention.

I no know o....

chulla12:


This is an utterly false assumption. Most Igbos that claim ties to external groups claim Jewish links and Jews are THE prototype of a group that has NEVER built an empire from time immemorial. Most Igbos and other disenfranchised groups (including African Americans) claim to be Jews for other obvious reasons. Also, majority of Igbos don't know what "Bantu" means anyway.

I don't know where you got this strange idea from, but African Americans don't claim they are Jews. And to clarify that means the majority. And this is coming from someone who is part AA.

chulla12:

I couldn't give a sh*t about which African group historically did what (to me all it does is propagate undeserved pageantry to failure and belie the despair, savagery and poverty that wreck the entire continent).

However I have to correct your assumptions that Igbos seek to validate themselves by claiming that they were an empire building civilization when they create threads like this.

This is an utterly false assumption. Most Igbos that claim ties to external groups claim Jewish links and Jews are THE prototype of a group that has NEVER built an empire from time immemorial. Most Igbos and other disenfranchised groups (including African Americans) claim to be Jews for other obvious reasons. Also, majority of Igbos don't know what "Bantu" means anyway.

I agree with you,Igbos are not fighting to associate themselves with any glorious empire,we just wanna know who we are and what we are made up of(ethnic composition). While we are proud igbos,we also acknowlegde cultural and ethnic plurality amongst us. This Bantu stuff is not even a relevant topic amongst Igbos, it is even offensive to call igbos a bantu tribe. Bantu reeks of uncivilization amongst most blacks. That we wanna find about the possibility of igbo/bantu relationship does not mean we wanna claim bantu. Smh.

KidStranglehold:

I don't know where you got this strange idea from, but African Americans don't claim they are Jews. And to clarify that means the majority. And this is coming from someone who is part AA.

African-Americans claim Hebrew ancestry via African ancestry. Am aware of people that propagate the idea that blacks were enslaved and sold to Arab and European slave dealers cos they were black hebrews that lived amongst other black Africans.

KidStranglehold:
I don't know where you got this strange idea from, but African Americans don't claim they are Jews. And to clarify that means the majority. And this is coming from someone who is part AA.

Most Igbos don't claim Jews except fringe Igbo groups. This is what I was trying to say.

There are fringe AA "Israelites" who claim to be Jewish rather than from Africa. Yes I have seen this myself in my trips to NY and Cali.

chulla12:

Most Igbos don't claim Jews except fringe Igbo groups. This is what I was trying to say.

There are fringe AA "Israelites" who claim to be Jewish rather than from Africa[b]. Yes I have seen this myself in my trips to NY and Cali. [/b]

Understood now.

As for the bolded, you're talking about those loony black Hebrew Israelite who are not only a minority but no black person takes seriously. Trust me most AA's are raving Christians. Especially those from the South(where most AA's live).

As for Igbo's its also strange. I never heard about Igbo's or any other Nigerians claiming they are Jews.

KidStranglehold:


If you guys are a Middle Eastern EXTRACTION, then why doesn't Igbo men carry any signature Middle Eastern lineages like J? Instead Igbo's like other West African men carry e1b1a in high frequencies. Doesn't add up. E1b1a in the Middle East is very insignificant.

lineage J? e1b1a? WTF are you talking about? WTF are you smoking? We Igbos ain't Africans. We're Jews, get it?

onitshaigbo:

lineage J? e1b1a? WTF are you talking about? WTF are you smoking? We Igbos ain't Africans. We're Jews, get it?

I'm not smoking anything because I don't smoke. But I have a question, are you mentally deranged or trolling? Which one?

However I have to correct your assumptions that Igbos seek to validate themselves by claiming that they were an empire building civilization when they create threads like this.

This is an utterly false assumption. Most Igbos that claim ties to external groups claim Jewish links and Jews are THE prototype of a group that has NEVER built an empire from time immemorial. Those Igbos and other disenfranchised groups (including African Americans) claim to be Jews for other obvious reasons. Also, majority of Igbos don't know what "Bantu" means anyway.

I believe i was referring specifically to Igbodefender and his Bantu claims, not to all IGBOS. My comment which u quoted did not even mention the Hebrew claims.

I also find it funny that someone would call Bantus primitive. LOL.

Radoillo:
I believe i was referring specifically to Igbodefender and his Bantu claims, not to all IGBOS. My comment which u quoted did not even mention the Hebrew claims.

I was alluding to your assumptions about empire building being some sort of "plus" in African history and how you feel Igbodefender was wielding this concept to "hype" Igbos with Bantus. Yeah I know you were responding to just Igbodefender but let's keep it real. Despite your good intentions, on NL as far as Igbos are concerned it is usually a one for all or all for one thing.

I was just setting the record straight for those who are in too deep with Igbos and NL, thirsting to run for the hills in glee with your quote.

Radoillo: I also find it funny that someone would call Bantus primitive. LOL.

Lol,i hope you are not picking on my post. That is not my opinion at all. Some people don't want be associated with Bantu for reasons best known to them.

chulla12:

I was alluding to your assumptions about empire building being some sort of "plus" in African history and how you feel Igbodefender was wielding this concept to "hype" Igbos with Bantus. Yeah I know you were responding to just Igbodefender but let's keep it real. Despite your good intentions, on NL as far as Igbos are concerned it is usually a one for all or all for one thing.

I was just setting the record straight for those who are in too deep with Igbos and NL, thirsting to run for the hills in glee with your quote.

Again, you misunderstand. I certainly have no assumptions that empire-building is some sort of "plus" in African history. I find the organization of a vast trading network by the Aro (for example) every bit as interesting and remarkable as the conquests of, say, Kanuri kings. But in my discussions with people including Igbos, both online and offline, I find that a lot of people believe that the possession of kingdoms and empires make history more 'grand'. Someone I was discussing the story of Olaudah Equiano with recently kept talking about the 'ancient Isseke kingdom'; a few years ago I read about a certain Emperor Kamalu who founded a great empire with capital at Ozuzu, and who was deified as the god of thunder after his death. People are unduly fascinated with the idea of mega-states! Smaller-scale political systems who made laudable achievements are too often neglected. That's merely what I was trying to point out. I have reason to believe that Igbodefender feels that way too. Otherwise why would he highlight the following statement and ask me to take special note of it when it doesn't even have any direct relationship to the point he was trying to make:

"Between the 14th and 15th centuries, Bantu-speaking states began to emerge in the Great Lakes region in the savannah south of the Central African rainforest. On the Zambezi river, the Monomatapa kings built the famous Great Zimbabwe complex, a civilization whose origins and ethnic affiliations are uncertain."

Let's not pretend we don't know why he added this paragraph in his original post:

Another section posits, “Many of the great kingdoms of South Africa were ruled by Bantus, who tended to be highly resourceful and adaptable. Their culture subsumed those of other native Africans, although traces of earlier African peoples can be seen in some societies today. These kingdoms traded with people from other regions of the world, including the Europeans, and as Europeans started to colonize Africa, they pressured the existing Bantus to move. People who speak the languages in this family can be found in Rwanda, Angola, Burundi, Zimbabwe, and South Africa, among other nations in the southern part of Africa.”

I'm not really interested if Yorubas and Nupes and Hausas and Fulanis claim Ancient Egyptian or Semitic roots. That is the problem of the Yorubas and the Nupes and the Hausas and the Fulanis. It is for people from those ethnic groups who know better to refute the claims. But if Igbos make such claims about Igbos without scholarly-sound proof, I'm going to object because I care about how MY history is being interpreted. I also understand that heads in Nairaland explode when Igbos make these claims, and when other ethnic groups make similar claims, general reaction tends to be mild. I don't care about that either. Igbophobes don't bug me.

One of the reasons why this is a big deal for me is that a couple of years back, when i began seriously researching Igbo history, and couldn't get much information in the libraries and bookshops close to me at the time, I turned to the internet. I ran into blogs like Igbodefender and swallowed the junk without question.

So for a while I believed that the Egba Yorubas were of Igbo descent. I believed that Igbos founded and ruled in Ile-Ife as kings until Oduduwa drove them out. I believed that Nat Turner and all the major rebels against slavery in the New World, plus the Gullah people were of Igbo descent. Its a long list!

There's some poor kid out there who is eager to learn his history, and all he has is the internet. It's annoying to know that he'll probably end up on Prince Oforkaja's blog or some othe site that serves fiction as fact and get a false sense of his history.

KidStranglehold:

I don't know where you got this strange idea from, but African Americans don't claim they are Jews. And to clarify that means the majority. And this is coming from someone who is part AA.

Rastas do.

PAGAN9JA:

Rastas do.

Rasta's aren't AA's.

Radoillo:

Again, you misunderstand. I certainly have no assumptions that empire-building is some sort of "plus" in African history. I find the organization of a vast trading network by the Aro (for example) every bit as interesting and remarkable as the conquests of, say, Kanuri kings. But in my discussions with people including Igbos, both online and offline, I find that a lot of people believe that the possession of kingdoms and empires make history more 'grand'. Someone I was discussing the story of Olaudah Equiano with recently kept talking about the 'ancient Isseke kingdom'; a few years ago I read about a certain Emperor Kamalu who founded a great empire with capital at Ozuzu, and who was deified as the god of thunder after his death. People are unduly fascinated with the idea of mega-states! Smaller-scale political systems who made laudable achievements are too often neglected. That's merely what I was trying to point out. I have reason to believe that Igbodefender feels that way too. Otherwise why would he highlight the following statement and ask me to take special note of it when it doesn't even have any direct relationship to the point he was trying to make:

"Between the 14th and 15th centuries, Bantu-speaking states began to emerge in the Great Lakes region in the savannah south of the Central African rainforest. On the Zambezi river, the Monomatapa kings built the famous Great Zimbabwe complex, a civilization whose origins and ethnic affiliations are uncertain."

Let's not pretend we don't know why he added this paragraph in his original post:

Another section posits, “Many of the great kingdoms of South Africa were ruled by Bantus, who tended to be highly resourceful and adaptable. Their culture subsumed those of other native Africans, although traces of earlier African peoples can be seen in some societies today. These kingdoms traded with people from other regions of the world, including the Europeans, and as Europeans started to colonize Africa, they pressured the existing Bantus to move. People who speak the languages in this family can be found in Rwanda, Angola, Burundi, Zimbabwe, and South Africa, among other nations in the southern part of Africa.”

I'm not really interested if Yorubas and Nupes and Hausas and Fulanis claim Ancient Egyptian or Semitic roots. That is the problem of the Yorubas and the Nupes and the Hausas and the Fulanis. It is for people from those ethnic groups who know better to refute the claims. But if Igbos make such claims about Igbos without scholarly-sound proof, I'm going to object because I care about how MY history is being interpreted. I also understand that heads in Nairaland explode when Igbos make these claims, and when other ethnic groups make similar claims, general reaction tends to be mild. I don't care about that either. Igbophobes don't bug me.

One of the reasons why this is a big deal for me is that a couple of years back, when i began seriously researching Igbo history, and couldn't get much information in the libraries and bookshops close to me at the time, I turned to the internet. I ran into blogs like Igbodefender and swallowed the junk without question.

So for a while I believed that the Egba Yorubas were of Igbo descent. I believed that Igbos founded and ruled in Ile-Ife as kings until Oduduwa drove them out. I believed that Nat Turner and all the major rebels against slavery in the New World, plus the Gullah people were of Igbo descent. Its a long list!

There's some poor kid out there who is eager to learn his history, and all he has is the internet. It's annoying to know that he'll probably end up on Prince Oforkaja's blog or some othe site that serves fiction as fact and get a false sense of his history.

I would only suggest we think outside the box and have an open mind when we come across things like this You don't totally trash an opinion/a claim without a credible opposing view devoid of sound evidence. I don't feel it is totally out of place to look for similarites within diverse ethnic group/Nations besides it's wrong to confine/restrict Igbo history to Alaigbo. In view of the adventurous lifestyle of igbos,i wouldn't be surprised if we encounter prevalent similarity bwt Igbos and other people.

Radoillo: *sigh*

The pseudo-linguistics again. You tried that before with some Igbo-sounding Japanese names. ChinenyeN and I expressed our disagreement and even tried to tell you that linguistics doesn't work like that. Now its the turn of Igbo-sounding Zimbabwean names.

Listen, bro. Like Macof has already hinted, before you can say that two similar-sounding words from two different langugages are related, you have to first show that the two words actually have THE SAME MEANING in the two languages, or at least that any slight difference in meaning can be adequately explained by semantic change over the course of time.

And after you have indeed established that the two similar-sounding words have the same meaning, you still have to eliminate the possibility that the similarity is merely coincidental by going further and finding hundreds, even thousands, of similar-sounding root-words with the same meanings in the two languages before you can even begin to postulate that the two languages may have sprung from a common source, or that one of the languages exerted considerable influence on the other.

This you have not done. You just sat in your living room one evening and heard the newscaster on TV mention a certain Patrick Chinamasa, and concluded (even though you have no idea whatsoever what Chinamasa means) that Chinamasa must be related to the Igbo name Chinasa.

Well, I have a very close friend from Zambia. She's Bemba and the Bembas also have scores of 'Chi' names. I'll give you a few of them that sound Igbo and their actual Bemba meanings.


Chiluba....it doesn't mean 'God, keep working'. It means 'Lost'.
Chikondi.....It's not related to 'Chikodiri' (It's up to God). It means 'Mercy'.

Chinaka....doesn't mean 'God proposes'. It means 'Tired/tiring'.
Chikumbutso....is not a corruption of 'Chimbuzo' (my God comes first). It means 'Reminder'.
Chisanga....is not a corruption of Chimsoaga (the God I follow). It means 'found'.

No degree of semantic change can explain these differences. They are simply different, completely unrelated words. I'm pretty certain that an examination of the Zimbabwean names you posted will yield similar (negative) results.

It is becoming clear to me that this desperation to link the Igbo with the Bantu-speakers stems from a desire to bask in the glory of Bantu historical achievements. On another post about the monuments of Great Zimbabwe, you made a comment about how the builders were Igbo because (according to you) the Bantu are descended from Igbos. That is sad, just sad. Behind your posts and comments I see a man who either doesn't know his history or finds what he knows to be too 'modest' and needs to spin romantic tales of lofty achievements to make himself feel better.

Take your nose off Bantu and Japanese and Hebrew and Yoruba histories and actually study your own. True, great conquering empires are not a theme in Igbo history, but you'll find remarkable ritual, socio-political and economic 'hegemonies', and impressive artistic traditions to be proud of.
There's a growing body of scholarship on various aspects of Igbo history. Take advantage of them.

I'm not trying to persuade you or other contributors to accept the unverified relationship bwt the 'Chi' names but we need to be aware of the occurance of drastic semantic change,presence of real and false word cognates. Is it not possible that these Chi words acquired different meanings in different environments? Language grows,it is not static. Charlie,a popular English name meant a Foolish/silly fellow in Old/archaic English. A pre Victorian Man will be surprised that people bear Charlie in this 21st century. Linguistics and etymology has taken care of various semantic changes,such as Amelioration,narrowing and word boardening. The problem here is that we can't establish the origin of those Southern African names. I don't know about y'all,discovering a similarity in culture or language is not wrong.

Ihuomadinihu:
I would only suggest we think outside the box and have an open mind when we come across things like this You don't totally trash an opinion/a claim without a credible opposing view devoid of sound evidence. I don't feel it is totally out of place to look for similarites within diverse ethnic group/Nations besides it's wrong to confine/restrict Igbo history to Alaigbo. In view of the adventurous lifestyle of igbos,i wouldn't be surprised if we encounter prevalent similarity bwt Igbos and other people.

Thanks for that post that shows you are a cultured fellow. When did it become a crime for people to come together to explore similarities between their tribe and others, I wonder?

Note: one of those who have been trying to derail this thread uses an Igbo moniker on Nairaland, but if you go through his past posts from years past, you'll see that he has even denied being Igbo. So, ignore their attempts to do what they know best: try to stop Igbo progress. They've already failed.

ChinenyeN: Chileke Ohna... you Igbodefender people are foolishly dense. It irks me.

It has come to our notice that you have constantly been using abusive , libelous, and derogatory statements against our organization's threads on the Cultural Section of Nairaland.com. Be advised that our Legal Department has opened a file to compile your libelous comments against our organization, for possible legal action against you.

The moderators of this section are advised to take disciplinary action against the fellow behind the moniker ChinenyeN.

Word of Advice: whatever your arguments against us is, state it in a civil and responsible manner.

Radoillo: *sigh*

The pseudo-linguistics again. You tried that before with some Igbo-sounding Japanese names. ChinenyeN and I expressed our disagreement and even tried to tell you that linguistics doesn't work like that. Now its the turn of Igbo-sounding Zimbabwean names.

Listen, bro. Like Macof has already hinted, before you can say that two similar-sounding words from two different langugages are related, you have to first show that the two words actually have THE SAME MEANING in the two languages, or at least that any slight difference in meaning can be adequately explained by semantic change over the course of time.

And after you have indeed established that the two similar-sounding words have the same meaning, you still have to eliminate the possibility that the similarity is merely coincidental by going further and finding hundreds, even thousands, of similar-sounding root-words with the same meanings in the two languages before you can even begin to postulate that the two languages may have sprung from a common source, or that one of the languages exerted considerable influence on the other.

This you have not done. You just sat in your living room one evening and heard the newscaster on TV mention a certain Patrick Chinamasa, and concluded (even though you have no idea whatsoever what Chinamasa means) that Chinamasa must be related to the Igbo name Chinasa.

Well, I have a very close friend from Zambia. She's Bemba and the Bembas also have scores of 'Chi' names. I'll give you a few of them that sound Igbo and their actual Bemba meanings.


Chiluba....it doesn't mean 'God, keep working'. It means 'Lost'.
Chikondi.....It's not related to 'Chikodiri' (It's up to God). It means 'Mercy'.

Chinaka....doesn't mean 'God proposes'. It means 'Tired/tiring'.
Chikumbutso....is not a corruption of 'Chimbuzo' (my God comes first). It means 'Reminder'.
Chisanga....is not a corruption of Chimsoaga (the God I follow). It means 'found'.

No degree of semantic change can explain these differences. They are simply different, completely unrelated words. I'm pretty certain that an examination of the Zimbabwean names you posted will yield similar (negative) results.

It is becoming clear to me that this desperation to link the Igbo with the Bantu-speakers stems from a desire to bask in the glory of Bantu historical achievements. On another post about the monuments of Great Zimbabwe, you made a comment about how the builders were Igbo because (according to you) the Bantu are descended from Igbos. That is sad, just sad. Behind your posts and comments I see a man who either doesn't know his history or finds what he knows to be too 'modest' and needs to spin romantic tales of lofty achievements to make himself feel better.

Take your nose off Bantu and Japanese and Hebrew and Yoruba histories and actually study your own. True, great conquering empires are not a theme in Igbo history, but you'll find remarkable ritual, socio-political and economic 'hegemonies', and impressive artistic traditions to be proud of.
There's a growing body of scholarship on various aspects of Igbo history. Take advantage of them.

Homographs,homonyms and cognates,does not necessarily need to share same meaning,think about that. While Igbos may have a rich history,let's not keep a blind eye to every to every 'hypothesis' that comes our way. It is still a hypothesis until it's examined,rejected or approved.
I remember going through a very short article on Fbook,it was written by a Rwanda. I felt i just read a writeup written in Igbo language,i immediately contacted the guy and translated the article to English. I was beyond shocked when he replied that those where the exact meaning.
In essence,let's just be openminded as we try to understand our origin and relationship with tribes beyond the Igbo boundary.

For your next article, Igbodefender, may I suggest you explore the historical connection between the Igbo and the Ancient Greeks. Both appear to have had similar fragmented small-scale political systems and to have held democractic political ideals. The Delphic Oracle appears to have played a similar role in Greek life that the oracles at Arochukwu and Umunoha and Awka played in Igbo life. 'Athens' is close enough to 'Atani' (the name of a number of Igbo settlements) for us to postulate a common origin. I'm sure that, if we put our fervid imaginations to work, we will dig up enough data to definitely seal the connection. Let's do this!

And when we're done we can move to the Mayas of Mesoamerica.

Ihuomadinihu:
Homographs,homonyms and cognates,does not necessarily need to share same meaning,think about that. While Igbos may have a rich history,let's not keep a blind eye to every to every 'hypothesis' that comes our way. It is still a hypothesis until it's examined,rejected or approved.
I remember going through a very short article on Fbook,it was written by a Rwanda. I felt i just read a writeup written in Igbo language,i immediately contacted the guy and translated the article to English. I was beyond shocked when he replied that those where the exact meaning.
In essence,let's just be openminded as we try to understand our origin and relationship with tribes beyond the Igbo boundary.

Please I have some basic understanding of linguistics and semantics. No need dragging out this issue. Chiluba ("God, keep working" ) cannot end up as 'Lost'. No matter the kind of bizarre semantic senario you want to imagine. We don't have to go round in circles with this. It's tiring. When there's some real proof of Igbo-Bantu connection, I'll accept it and even apologise for ever doubting it in the first place. Until then, we should not pass fairytales as history. Period.

Radoillo: For your next article, Igbodefender, may I suggest you explore the historical connection between the Igbo and the Ancient Greeks. Both appear to have had similar fragmented small-scale political systems and to have held democractic political ideals. The Delphic Oracle appears to have played a similar role in Greek life that the oracles at Arochukwu and Umunoha and Awka played in Igbo life. 'Athens' is close enough to 'Atani' (the name of a number of Igbo settlements) for us to postulate a common origin. I'm sure that, if we put our fervid imaginations to work, we will dig up enough data to definitely seal the connection. Let's do this!
And when we're done we can move to the Mayas of Mesoamerica.

Nice try.

Radoillo:

Please I have some basic understanding of linguistics and semantics. No need dragging out this issue. Chiluba ("God, keep working" ) cannot end up as 'Lost'. No matter the kind of bizarre semantic senario you want to imagine. We don't have to go round in circles with this. It's tiring. When there's some real proof of Igbo-Bantu connection, I'll accept it and even apologise for ever doubting it in the first place. Until then, we should not pass fairytales as history. Period.

I already dropped the bantu stuff a while ago. Outrageous semantic change is not a bizzare phenomenon if you really have an understanding of linguistics. Yes,it happens,i have more examples for you. We are yet to discover and understand the history of the ''false cognates'' in those names,till then,let's hold on to our respective opinions.
Btw, those oral accounts of Igbo origin could as well be fairy tales.

Ihuomadinihu:
I already dropped the bantu stuff a while ago. Outrageous semantic change is not bizzare phenomenon if you really have an understand of linguistics. Yes,it happens,i have more examples for you. We are yet to discover and understand the history of the ''false cognates'' in those names,till then,let's hold on to our respective opinions.
Btw, those oral accounts of Igbo origin could as well be fairy tales.

Not when the accounts are corroborated by accounts of the Benue-Congo former occupants themselves. And when you have surviving enclaves of these Benue-Congo peoples still living in parts of Ebonyi State, completely surrounded by the Ezza-Izi-Ikwo groups. And when you have imprints of Benue-Congo speech found in place-names (eg: 'Ibom' in Arochukwu. 'Nkal-' and 'Nkan-' place-names in the NE Igbo zone may also be indicative of former Benue-Congo occupation; this is entirely my own theory, though, which I don't possess enough evidence to push forward).

Where it is possible to find supporting linguistic, geographic and ethnographic evidence for oral accounts, like in the case of the traditions in question, it is most likely that the core message of the oral accounts are true, even if the details may be fictitious.

Radoillo:

Not when the accounts are corroborated by accounts of the Benue-Congo former occupants themselves. And when you have surviving enclaves of these Benue-Congo peoples still living in parts of Ebonyi State, completely surrounded by the Ezza-Izi-Ikwo groups. And when you have imprints of Benue-Congo speech found in place-names (eg: 'Ibom' in Arochukwu. 'Nkal-' and 'Nkan-' place-names in the NE Igbo zone may also be indicative of former Benue-Congo occupation; this is entirely my own theory, though, which I don't possess enough evidence to push forward).

Where it is possible to find supporting linguistic, geographic and ethnographic evidence for oral accounts, like in the case of the traditions in question, it is most likely that the core message of the oral accounts are true, even if the details may be fictitious.

A hapulam the bantu story o. Going by oral accounts,the Efik/ibibio people were the the aboriginals of the present Arochukwu area. If the migrating igbo people from north of the cross river were the original occupants of arochukwu that is what we don't know. Aros picked up ibibio/Efik as a second language,so am not surprised with the existence of the ibom/nkan words in their dialect. Apart from Aro/ohafia/Abam,most Abia natives are said to be aboriginals,so i don't subscribe to your opinion. I would rather call it reverse migration.

Ihuomadinihu:
Apart from Aro/ohafia/Abam,most Abia natives are said to be aboriginals,so i don't subscribe to your opinion.

I'm pretty certain I never said everybody in Abia state moved in there and took out the Ibibio-Efiks. So I'm not sure which opinion of mine you don't subscribe to. Many people on Nairaland seem to have a knack for misunderstanding what was actually said.

Radoillo:

Not when the accounts are corroborated by accounts of the Benue-Congo former occupants themselves. And when you have surviving enclaves of these Benue-Congo peoples still living in parts of Ebonyi State, completely surrounded by the Ezza-Izi-Ikwo groups. And when you have imprints of Benue-Congo speech found in place-names (eg: 'Ibom' in Arochukwu. 'Nkal-' and 'Nkan-' place-names in the NE Igbo zone may also be indicative of former Benue-Congo occupation; this is entirely my own theory, though, which I don't possess enough evidence to push forward).

Where it is possible to find supporting linguistic, geographic and ethnographic evidence for oral accounts, like in the case of the traditions in question, it is most likely that the core message of the oral accounts are true, even if the details may be fictitious.

I wouldn't find it extraordinary that igbos share words with other linguistic groups. Our numerous dialects,some unintelligible is a pointer that we have come across and mingled with other people.