bukatyne: Why don't we all dig deep into this 'potentials' talk?

If our fore mothers were willing to marry 'non-potential' men and somehow things got twisted to ladies only marrying men that have 'potentials' or 'manifestation', what do we think went wrong?

Keep in mind that most mothers trained their daughters to look for potentials in men

What do you think made mothers willing to marry non-potential advice their daughters against marrying same?

Good point. As I always say, we are all products of the same society. So if it means most of our girls are all about money can we isolate the guys? Does that not also mean, most guys today are all about money and are willing to flaunt it in everyone's faces? Does it also mean guys choose their male friends based on financial status? But then, if the guys were all about money, wouldn't they be attracted to rich women only; hoping to milk them or use their connections rather than marrying women below them financially? Difficult questions.

But Bukky, please clarify. You said most mother trained their daughters to look for potential in men, yet they are advising against marrying men with potential. That sounds contradictory. Please clarify.

bukatyne:

And my question is 'why this preoccupation'?

Afterall, values are passed down from our fore/grandmothers to us

I like to think that the information explosion and culture of rebellion and re-examination that started within the last two hundred years in the West is too obvious to miss.

The culture of questioning standards and traditions started gaining strength in Africa in the 20th century, about the time that African countries started to agitate for political self-actualization.

Obviously then, our grandmothers' wisdom suddenly was no longer all the little impressionable girls had to work with. You can exercise your imagination on what followed.

pickabeau1:


On the contrary it is not new

In the old days, the scion of rich men or those who had large farms/barns had both the pick of the women in quality and quantity
Exceptions to these wer artists who were opportuned toget breaks or were favored by rich patron

Its always been about the money

In one sense you appear right. But you aren't quite so right. As I said in another thread, in many cultures in the past women were betrothed in babyhood and typically, young men in their early teens who were just starting life were given wives by their fathers to help them build up their lives. If they wished to marry more that was up to them. It is in this modern age when every green kid wants to do it all by themselves that you see all this stuff happening.

Back in the old days, if women grew into young adulthood without a husband, they typically chose based on reports concerning a man's strength, skill and ambition. Not how much he had in the barn already. The latter was the exception not the rule.

Since you want to be specific.. those wives were not married by those men BUT by their fathers
He gave his son a part of his compound for him to build a home there to house his new wife and family
He was alo given part of the ancestral farmland to farm

If he had no such family support or was poor.. he had to hustle

At the bolded, hope you aware those qualities were an indicator of wealth

A good wrestler tended to be favored by patrons...


Its been that way.. lets not over romanticise the past

Those days..as a poor man it was not sure for you with a woman even if you were married

Remember the proverb: A rich man will aways collect a poor man's wife
Thats why the return proverb was: Even if u collect a poor man;s wife, you cant collect his child

ihedinobi2:
In one sense you appear right. But you aren't quite so right. As I said in another thread, in many cultures in the past women were betrothed in babyhood and typically, young men in their early teens who were just starting life were given wives by their fathers to help them build up their lives. If they wished to marry more that was up to them. It is in this modern age when every green kid wants to do it all by themselves that you see all this stuff happening.

Back in the old days, if women grew into young adulthood without a husband, they typically chose based on reports concerning a man's strength, skill and ambition. Not how much he had in the barn already. The latter was the exception not the rule.

Nashville:

Let's even get more realistic. If he suddenly got a 20 million a year job in Chevron, does he then have potential? If the answer is yes, then we will all understand better

Some would tell you getting a job isnt by luck and the potential was in him to get the job from time

But a random event like winning lottery, inheritance or random political appointments can change a man without any talent or potential to one brimming with potential
'
Summary potential = current earning power.

Thats why several women saw potential in multimillionaire MKO Abiola that made him have over 30 wives and over 100 concubines

pickabeau1: Since you want to be specific.. those wives were not married by those men BUT by their fathers
He gave his son a part of his compound for him to build a home there to house his new wife and family
He was alo given part of the ancestral farmland to farm

If he had no such family support or was poor.. he had to hustle

At the bolded, hope you aware those qualities were an indicator of wealth

A good wrestler tended to be favored by patrons...


Its been that way.. lets not over romanticise the past

Those days..as a poor man it was not sure for you with a woman even if you were married

Remember the proverb: A rich man will aways collect a poor man's wife
Thats why the return proverb was: Even if u collect a poor man;s wife, you cant collect his child

Not in all cases, bro. There were men who were hunters, smiths and carpenters or builders depending on the culture and they had no farmland to give to their children. What they did was give them a skill and turn them loose. Even when they were given any farmland or wealth of that sort, it was a starter, nothing more. The boy built his own wealth with his new wife.

Those qualities are the true potential then, don't you agree? That has been my argument: that it is what makes a man wealthy and a person to be reckoned with that women should seek rather than emergent wealth.

pickabeau1:


On the contrary it is not new

In the old days, the scion of rich men or those who had large farms/barns had both the pick of the women in quality and quantity
Exceptions to these wer artists who were opportuned toget breaks or were favored by rich patron

Its always been about the money

So why the sudden complaint?

Are the men just waking up?

ihedinobi2:
Not in all cases, bro. There were men who were hunters, smiths and carpenters or builders depending on the culture and they had no farmland to give to their children. What they did was give them a skill and turn them loose. Even when they were given any farmland or wealth of that sort, it was a starter, nothing more. The boy built his own wealth with his new wife.

Those qualities are the true potential then, don't you agree? That has been my argument: that it is what makes a man wealthy and a person to be reckoned with that women should seek rather than emergent wealth.

Onlyfew of these people made it to the top of the food chain
Of course they married... no issue with that

They were not the pick of the pack

I agree with you on potential but bro.. our sisters are not in for a long thing

Most Women dont even remember the gift you gave them yesterday.. Its about the NOW

bukatyne:

So why the sudden complaint?

Are the men just waking up?

Not waking up... those who are doing so are just expressing frustration and another group may be expressing pity for girls who lost a good guy due to the lust for wealth
As i said much earlier.. i know the score

pickabeau1:

Onlyfew of these people made it to the top of the food chain
Of course they married... no issue with that

They were not the pick of the pack

I agree with you on potential but bro.. our sisters are not in for a long thing

Most Women dont even remember the gift you gave them yesterday.. Its about the NOW

Haha... I saw and I just had to quote.

crackhaus:
Haha... I saw and I just had to quote.

Nashville:

Good point. As I always say, we are all products of the same society. So if it means most of our girls are all about money can we isolate the guys? Does that not also mean, most guys today are all about money and are willing to flaunt it in everyone's faces? Does it also mean guys choose their male friends based on financial status? But then, if the guys were all about money, wouldn't they be attracted to rich women only; hoping to milk them or use their connections rather than marrying women below them financially? Difficult questions.

But Bukky, please clarify. You said most mother trained their daughters to look for potential in men, yet they are advising against marrying men with potential. That sounds contradictory. Please clarify.

I said our grandmothers were willing to marry men without potentials but advised their daughters to marry men with potentials (potentials = wealth here)

You got the gist of my point. It is simplistic to say women of today like money most; the question is why?

On my way to work one day, I saw a little girl wanting to cross the road on her way to school and I held her hand to cross. You needed to see how she grabbed her hands off mine and ran away after crossing. No thank you or any thing. It will be foolish of me to say that 'children of today are rude or ungrateful'; I just shook my hand in sorrow at what Nigeria has become.

Her reaction was obviously what her parents have taught her and its for her own good. I remember at her age, I would said thank you and the adult would have probably engaged me on my school et al till we parted.

If I tried that, she might have shouted kidnapper


Why did women change to 'it's all about the money for marriage'

bukatyne:
I remember at her age, I would said thank you and the adult would have probably engaged me on my school et al till we parted.

Just an aside..even then,, most will be scared of being walked across a street by a stranger
Maybe na silver spoon u get

pickabeau1:

Not waking up... those who are doing so are just expressing frustration and another group may be expressing pity for girls who lost a good guy due to the lust for wealth
As i said much earlier.. i know the score

How do you know those guys would make good husbands?

pickabeau1:

Onlyfew of these people made it to the top of the food chain
Of course they married... no issue with that

They were not the pick of the pack

I agree with you on potential but bro.. our sisters are not in for a long thing

Most Women dont even remember the gift you gave them yesterday.. Its about the NOW

Like I said, it depends on the culture. In cultures where war was how the economy thrived, it would be really weird to say that smiths were not the créme de la créme.

It was always about ability and the man's views for the future.

As for what it is now, I am still waiting for one woman to prove to me that she has a backbone. In real life, of course.

Lending my voice to this very interesting conversation again....

Like I said in my previous post, I think very woman should look for a man who is responsible enough to take care of her needs. He should have the capacity to provide to some extent, some form of security, welfare and basic necessities of life for her and the expectant kids - including himself.

Where I think the problem lies is when we (both sexes inclusive) feel this need is all about money and money alone. As well explained in Ifedionbi2's 'How to find a man' essay, man is constantly pushed sometimes to the extreme by himself and environment. In other to counter this force, he is challenged to look inwards to fight this 'enemy'. In doing so, his imaginative and creative abilities become aroused and thus realizing that he can push his limits and boundaries even beyond his own thought. Ironically, he creates more problems and the cycle continues. For this reason, life is bound to continue.

From time immemorial, traits, values and morals are passed down from generation to generation. A well groomed mother will go to all lengths to ensure that these salient values and morals instilled in her are passed down to her children and even her children's children; hopefully the children appreciate and accept these values. That's why some families have a 'tradition' and ensure they enforce it.

A woman who wants or meets a man with 'potentials' will in the same way tutor her children (the females on how to recognize men with budding potentials and the males how to use to the fullest their own innate abilities).

I see the problem here as a two way thing: a man realizing his potentials and conquering his world and; a woman firstly realizing that she has her own innate talents and recognizing a potential in a man. If these problems can be identified, it becomes easier to set sail. Else how can you solve a problem you don't even know exist?

In today's world, focus is being shifted to women empowerment, girl-child education and gender equality - they say if you empower a woman, and you educate a girl, you empower a nation and create a sustainable human resource. Its not that cities and nations built by men are 'faulty' but with a woman's contribution, there is a remarkable difference and in fact an improvement. So to the ladies, you also have potentials...find a man that will take your dreams as his.

bukatyne:

I said our grandmothers were willing to marry men without potentials but advised their daughters to marry men with potentials (potentials = wealth here)

You got the gist of my point. It is simplistic to say women of today like money most; the question is why?

On my way to work one day, I saw a little girl wanting to cross the road on her way to school and I held her hand to cross. You needed to see how she grabbed her hands off mine and ran away after crossing. No thank you or any thing. It will be foolish of me to say that 'children of today are rude or ungrateful'; I just shook my hand in sorrow at what Nigeria has become.

Her reaction was obviously what her parents have taught her and its for her own good. I remember at her age, I would said thank you and the adult would have probably engaged me on my school et al till we parted.

If I tried that, she might have shouted kidnapper


Why did women change to 'it's all about the money for marriage'

Ok, so I agree that our values as a socitey has changed - for the worse may be. So guys will do yahoo yahoo, 419, credit card fraud, just to make money big time and attract the hottest girls. And as for the girls, it's money for hand - back for ground.

So I ask you, why did our ladies change to "it's all about money for marriage".

Let me describe a guy. Say he finished with a pass - very slow guy, lives a reckless life and can't even hold a job. Even his father wouldn't employ him. But his father is a billionaire and this guy has alot of money to spend currently and even much more to inherit. Would our 9ja ladies find this guy very attractive? Does he have potential to our ladies?

pickabeau1:

Just an aside..even then,, most will be scared of being walked across a street by a stranger
Maybe na silver spoon u get

In the morning/afternoon in the open?

I don't think so

kaboninc:
In today's world, focus is being shifted to women empowerment, girl-child education and gender equality - they say if you empower a woman, and you educate a girl, you empower a nation and create a sustainable human resource. Its not that cities and nations built by men are 'faulty' but with a woman's contribution, there is a remarkable difference and in fact an improvement. So to the ladies, you also have potentials...find a man that will take your dreams as his.

Fantastic point here. I think the solution is actually to empower the women and make them realise they do not need a man to be successful. Make them understand that they can achieve anything a man can achieve and even more. I had a female colleague in the UK who was earning about 120,00 pounds a year. The day I met her fiancee, I was shocked. The guy was a dance instructor making about 25,000 pounds a year. And damn, this girl was dead gorgeous and both looked soo happy together.

Truth is that, my colleague does not need a man to make a big difference in her finances. Her job paid her more than enough to date or marry any guy she wanted; and her focus was being with a guy she loved, rather than a rich dude. And I repeat, this girl was damn pretty.

pickabeau1:

Only few of these people made it to the top of the food chain
Of course they married... no issue with that

They were not the pick of the pack

I agree with you on potential but bro.. our sisters are not in for a long thing

Most Women dont even remember the gift you gave them yesterday.. Its about the NOW

I like the bold part of your post. About the 'most women', I think its the fear of not settling with a 'capable' man a woman will be prepared to switch sides or rather 'port'. I heard they call it 'hypergamy'. Its a good thing we know about these ladies and we can either do two things: help them - because it is obvious they have this fear of insecurity and; secondly avoid them. Your personality will decide which.

Also, you can't blame them because life is dealing with them and its a pity they can't understand. They do so later in life (if they ever will) and if unfortunate, it becomes too late.

Nashville:

Fantastic point here. I think the solution is actually to empower the women and make them realise they do not need a man to be successful. Make them understand that they can achieve anything a man can achieve and even more. I had a female colleague in the UK who was earning about 120,00 pounds a year. The day I met her fiancee, I was shocked. The guy was a dance instructor making about 25,000 pounds a year. And damn, this girl was dead gorgeous and both looked soo happy together.

Truth is that, my colleague does not need a man to make a big difference in her finances. Her job paid her more than enough to date or marry any guy she wanted; and her focus was being with a guy she loved, rather than a rich dude. And I repeat, this girl was damn pretty.

Thank you for this point too.
An effect of an intimate relationship can either spur you to greater heights or completely destroy you. The effect will also depend on how structured the relationship is. I like your friend and the fact that she's a high flyer. My problem is the thought of "mak[ing] (women) them (men) realize they do not need a man to be successful". This phrase has absolutely nothing wrong with it but can be negatively interpreted especially by ladies; hence we have this 'Mrs. Independent'. That is also a problem I have with feminist and I don't blame them too because the men will always think he's indispensable.

My point here is we need ourselves to survive; I need a woman and you need a man. If we don't we would be enemies and by now, there would be two fiercely protected worlds - one for men and the other for women.

bukatyne:

How do you know those guys would make good husbands?

Stories that touch abound,...

Even im sure ur hubby/cousin/uncle/<some male figure around you> will have some lady that left them when they were struggling

Thats life

Thats the game

whats your point?

ihedinobi2:
Like I said, it depends on the culture. In cultures where war was how the economy thrived, it would be really weird to say that smiths were not the créme de la créme.
It was always about ability and the man's views for the future.
As for what it is now, I am still waiting for one woman to prove to me that she has a backbone. In real life, of course.

Happy waiting
In war economies, the warriors were the top elite.. the weak were scum

kaboninc:

Thank you for this point too.
An effect of an intimate relationship can either spur you to greater heights or completely destroy you. The effect will also depend on how structured the relationship is. I like your friend and the fact that she's a high flyer. My problem is the thought of "mak[ing] (women) them (men) realize they do not need a man to be successful". This phrase has absolutely nothing wrong with it but can be negatively interpreted especially by ladies; hence we have this 'Mrs. Independent'. That is also a problem I have with feminist and I don't blame them too because the men will always think he's indispensable.

My point here is we need ourselves to survive; I need a woman and you need a man. If we don't we would be enemies and by now, there would be two fiercely protected worlds - one for men and the other for women.

I agree with you completely. Again, I want to emphasize that a young woman does not need a man to achieve financial success. Women go to school as much as men, so why depend on a guy for financial gain if not for laziness or greed. Some of these young ladies sef earn enough to stand on their own, but will still want to get more from guys.

However, women need men and men need women. I believe than was how the creator made it. On feminism, I am not sure what that's about!

kaboninc:

I like the bold part of your post. About the 'most women', I think its the fear of not settling with a 'capable' man a woman will be prepared to switch sides or rather 'port'. I heard they call it 'hypergamy'. Its a good thing we know about these ladies and we can either do two things: help them - because it is obvious they have this fear of insecurity and; secondly avoid them. Your personality will decide which.

Also, you can't blame them because life is dealing with them and its a pity they can't understand. They do so later in life (if they ever will) and if unfortunate, it becomes too late.

I dont blame them..im just saying it as it is.. ladies should not appropriate the word potential as the meaning of the word is miles apart from what they think it is.
Or rather they are interested in the potential growth of current earning capacity i.e. Future Earning Potential

bukatyne.. can the bolded help you understand where d pity is

ok

bukatyne:

In the morning/afternoon in the open?

I don't think so

Nashville: Fantastic point here. I think the solution is actually to empower the women and make them realise they do not need a man to be successful. Make them understand that they can achieve anything a man can achieve and even more..

We are all for opportunity for all. But that won't necessarily change that much or mean the change that does cvome about will be all good. Even with privilege, are all men successful. And there is only so much succes to go around, regardless of if it's the sole preserve of one sex or equally accessible by both

Nashville:
I had a female colleague in the UK who was earning about 120,00 pounds a year. The day I met her fiancee, I was shocked. The guy was a dance instructor making about 25,000 pounds a year. And damn, this girl was dead gorgeous and both looked soo happy together.

Truth is that, my colleague does not need a man to make a big difference in her finances. Her job paid her more than enough to date or marry any guy she wanted; and her focus was being with a guy she loved, rather than a rich dude. And I repeat, this girl was damn pretty.

And this can work for some, but I somehow doubt it wil for the vast majority. I also have an exact same scenario where a colleague - probably on 40-50k - stated simply that she can't be long term with a guy - physio - that made only 25k. After she had an affair with him 0!

And although It's very instinctive for a woman to seek a mate of at least equal status, I appreciate that some can overcome that and look at the second most important imperative - physical quality - as appears to bethe case here. But there are still the dynamics of that differential to contend with. Think how it would play out with many couples.


TV

Nashville:

I agree with you completely. Again, I want to emphasize that a young woman does not need a man to achieve financial success. Women go to school as much as men, so why depend on a guy for financial gain if not for laziness or greed. Some of these young ladies sef earn enough to stand on their own, but will still want to get more from guys.

However, women need men and men need women. I believe than was how the creator made it. On feminism, I am not sure what that's about!

On that....I'm lost.

I've noticed something about myself...I can have an idea, set out to make it a reality but I get inhibited by my own very self. Funny enough, am good at convincing others to do something. To a fair extent, I'll say am a motivator and pusher. So my partner must understand this.....

Nashville:

Ok, so I agree that our values as a socitey has changed - for the worse may be. So guys will do yahoo yahoo, 419, credit card fraud, just to make money big time and attract the hottest girls. And as for the girls, it's money for hand - back for ground.

So I ask you, why did our ladies change to "it's all about money for marriage".

Let me describe a guy. Say he finished with a pass - very slow guy, lives a reckless life and can't even hold a job. Even his father wouldn't employ him. But his father is a billionaire and this guy has alot of money to spend currently and even much more to inherit. Would our 9ja ladies find this guy very attractive? Does he have potential to our ladies?

To some ladies, if he adds finesse & swag in bed, he will be an extremely hot cake; to others, he is hot enough.

So you ask me, why did our ladies change to "it's all about money for marriage".

In all honesty, lot of women then passed through hell in their marriages in our grannies' time and quickly learnt that marrying a man without wealth is double tragedy; (if the marriage will be bad at least, let the money be there to provide comfort). No be today that men started cheating on their wives or beating; beating is actually phasing out now and emotional abuse taking its place. This is not to say the women were saints though.

The advice of women been patient to take the poo of their hubbies did not start from today either; it has been a long age advice which women used to console themselves. You hear 'all men cheat'; 'open your heart for all possibilities'; 'don't let another women enjoy all you have suffered for'; 'the devil is at work'; 'people are jealous you are married' etc. Polygamy was also rampant so wife is free until it is her turn.

Some women who married poor men with the hope of growing with them got burnt. When bros became rich, the first way to celebrate is marry new wifey and all what the old wife worked for down the drain (Maybe this is one of the reasons I detest polygamy). This story is repeats itself daily. Women now sat back and reasoned 'if I will suffer all these, why not with a rich man?' Except the man is extra ordinary, his wealth will rub off on his wife. That's why it is said "Better to cry in BWM than cry/laugh on okada" Mothers started arming their daughters on how to get good and caring husbands aka rich men.

Unfortunately, there were good men who did not have much as per wealth and they were shunned by women (Truth be told, a typical Niger guy does all doable to woo a lady. I give them kudos for that and they manifest after marriage) because 'suru o lere' anymore and everyone wants 'olorunsogo'. When they became wealthy, they would decide to 'revenge' for their hurt causing a terrible cycle.

I find it irritating when a man woos a lady with 'I will spend on you; take care of you(money) etc.' Like seriously? don't you have anything else to offer?

Like I will say candidly, 'any woman who believes that 'all' men are cheats, abusers, etc. should marry a rich man because they would must likely marry cheats/abusers'. The money will cushion the effect.

In all honesty, it is 100% better to marry a rich bad husband than a poor bad one.





(This is not to bash men; abeg I nor get the strength for arguement)

Nashville:

Fantastic point here. I think the solution is actually to empower the women and make them realise they do not need a man to be successful. Make them understand that they can achieve anything a man can achieve and even more. I had a female colleague in the UK who was earning about 120,00 pounds a year. The day I met her fiancee, I was shocked. The guy was a dance instructor making about 25,000 pounds a year. And damn, this girl was dead gorgeous and both looked soo happy together.

Truth is that, my colleague does not need a man to make a big difference in her finances. Her job paid her more than enough to date or marry any guy she wanted; and her focus was being with a guy she loved, rather than a rich dude. And I repeat, this girl was damn pretty.

She got a fantastic dude bro

Coupled with the fact that they are not saddled with the 'man must earn higher to be the head' and other ridiculous beliefs.

The man must have been very comfortable in his skin too

bukatyne

i dont see any bashing here.. just plain reality... just that it predates grandmothers,,

if u had all u wrote above in your head all this while, why all the roundabout questions since trying to disprove hypergamy

its natural

pickabeau1:

I dont blame them..im just saying it as it is.. ladies should not appropriate the word potential as the meaning of the word is miles apart from what they think it is.
Or rather they are interested in the potential growth of current earning capacity i.e. Future Earning Potential

bukatyne.. can the bolded help you understand where d pity is

That they marry bad husbands?

Are all poor men good?

Or am I missing your point?

pickabeau1: bukatyne

i dont see any bashing here.. just plain reality... just that it predates grandmothers,,

if u had all u wrote above in your head all this while, why all the roundabout questions since trying to disprove hypergamy

its natural

I used fore, Ihedinobi2 wanted grand

Everybody wants to marry someone who will add value to them. What that value is differs.

So I do not see the need to single out that of women