Kay17:

It does sometimes.

Fear is fear. As zeemoore, and others here have said, obeying out of fear only teaches you how to not get caught. Teaching a child to understand how his actions affect outcomes, produces a child with the tools needed to solve problems, not hide from them.

Kay17:

The child traces the pain to you and sees the attachment between your satisfaction and zero pain. Hence easily conforms to your modelling. See African parents for example, they are the most respected. You have to consider the child's immaturity and inability to reciprocate gratitude or endearment.

This is why I stay off this section
The debates here are usually endless

Mr Kay, I hope you hold on to whatever you feel is the right way to train up a child
Cuss, spank, yell, tie him to an ant's nest so he'd remember the pains and the pains will in turn make him a better man
Do whatever you like with your child
Afterall, the child is yours and not someone else'
I can only imagine the "sweet memories" he'll have of his childhood when he grows up


*** I'm sincerely sorry if you find my post offensive

zeemoore:
This is why I stay off this section
The debates here are usually endless

Mr Kay, I hope you hold on to whatever you feel is the right way to train up a child
Cuss, spank, yell, tie him to an ant's nest so he'd remember the pains and the pains will in turn make him a better man
Do whatever you like with your child
Afterall, the child is yours and not someone else'
I can only imagine the "sweet memories" he'll have of his childhood when he grows up


*** I'm sincerely sorry if you find my post offensive

No offence taken. But I think you are adopting a counterproductive approach that all pains are bad and must be avoided at all costs. One would want an emotional healthy child, and it must be taught that pain is part of life.

zeemoore:
This is why I stay off this section

Mr Kay, I hope you hold on to whatever you feel is the right way to train up a child
Cuss, spank, yell, tie him to an ant's nest so he'd remember the pains and the pains will in turn make him a better man
Do whatever you like with your child
Afterall, the child is yours and not someone else'
I can only imagine the "sweet memories" he'll have of his childhood when he grows up

Fantasy much!!

Her Lordship, Madam! In which section is your opinion binding and accepted by all? Advanced myopia or delusions?

We are here to share ideas and to think you'd get no counter-opinions...
Did i say "fantasy"?

Kay17:

No offence taken. But I think you are adopting a counterproductive approach that all pains are bad and must be avoided at all costs. One would want an emotional healthy child, and it must be taught that pain is part of life.

I also think you're adopting a counterproductive approach that gentle discipline/loving guidance  is bad and must be avoided at all cost
The most effective "discipline" for a child is always positive, loving and gentle
Children learn best when they feel heard and valued, not when they feel on the defensive
I believe it's really not necessary to spank a child to have him understand the “error” of his ways.
I believe in communicating in a way that teaches rather than punishes
I believe in disciplining a child in ways that doesn't involve violence

*****
I know this question I'm about to ask is gossipy and none of my business but I'm curious to know, are you a family man/ do you have child(ren)?

texanomaly: I wrote an article about alternatives to corporal punishment.

Here it is:
http://storried.com/category/family/#sidr


I then asked some of my Nigerian friends what they thought. This is one of the responses I got.


"It's a nice article . The way people react here in Africa is a bit different from what's obtainable over there, down here people are naturally stubborn and rebellious. Irrespective of the person's age and status . Corporal punishment only keeps them in check even when you place rules they flaunt them easily with relish and abandon that's why it's so hard to rule a nation like Nigeria. The only word that Adults and kids alike respect here is Force."

Do you agree with this statement?

I'll read the article but believe it or not Tex, corporal punishment has its place here. People dey too stubborn for here and dats just it. However, being an elder son, I can authoritatively say force doesn't always work though sometimes it's necessary; sometimes one must simply leave people to life or try to talk gently. Flogging to me was preferable to insults. Staying in a spot and hearing all your flaws and insults can be really depressing; that I wouldn't want to do to anyone; cuz I didn't like it. I partially agree with the statement because the last statement is something I strongly disagree with.

UyiIredia:

I'll read the article but believe it or not Tex, corporal punishment has its place here. People dey too stubborn for here and dats just it. However, being an elder son, I can authoritatively say force doesn't always work though sometimes it's necessary; sometimes one must simply leave people to life or try to talk gently. Flogging to me was preferable to insults. Staying in a spot and hearing all your flaws and insults can be really depressing; that I wouldn't want to do to anyone; cuz I didn't like it. I partially agree with the statement because the last statement is something I strongly disagree with.

Once you read the article come back and let me know what you think. I did not say corporal punishment is wrong. Nor did I say it should not be used. I simply gave alternatives.

zeemoore:
This is why I stay off this section
The debates here are usually endless

Mr Kay, I hope you hold on to whatever you feel is the right way to train up a child
Cuss, spank, yell, tie him to an ant's nest so he'd remember the pains and the pains will in turn make him a better man
Do whatever you like with your child
Afterall, the child is yours and not someone else'
I can only imagine the "sweet memories" he'll have of his childhood when he grows up


*** I'm sincerely sorry if you find my post offensive

Sometimes cussing and spanking are necessary, though one must be very careful with cursing, words are very powerful and many African parents are too quick to curse, I didn't like it but I did realize that it was for my good; though sometimes I was sure my parents were in the wrong. On some occasions they flogged me when angry; then there was the unrealistic expectation they would flog me in my 20's. I was never going to allow that.

Fact is, that flogging or not kids will be stubborn. But a kid who isn't given some spanking is more likely not to be moved by life's hard knocks. We have these psychopaths, it's best we don't breed them. What I will strongly speask against is torture; what some parents do in the name of discipline is unacceptable.

texanomaly:

Once you read the article come back and let me know what you think. I did not say corporal punishment is wrong. Nor did I say it should not be used. I simply gave alternatives.

Your suggestions are good but there are factors which hinder them. In fact, my parents attempted some of these techniques; for example, we had a family forum where everyone aired their views. and why I preferred my mum to my DD was because she was the go-to person. The factors are as follows

1) Lack of patience on the side of parents
2) The presence of bad influence on the part of kids
3) Lack of availability of the parents due to the need to earn a living amongst other things
4) I should also add that trends in the wider society will rub off on kids. Some kids are smarter, some are stronger but kids are inquisitive and intuitive. As you yourself said, they watch us.

What you suggest will be easier to achieve in a village setting or for parents who are fortunate to have a flexible schedule. For working class people, it's difficult.

UyiIredia:

Sometimes cussing and spanking are necessary, though one must be very careful with cursing, words are very powerful and many African parents are too quick to curse, I didn't like it but I did realize that it was for my good; though sometimes I was sure my parents were in the wrong. On some occasions they flogged me when angry; then there was the unrealistic expectation they would flog me in my 20's. I was never going to allow that.

Fact is, that flogging or not kids will be stubborn. But a kid who isn't given some spanking is more likely not to be moved by life's hard knocks. We have these psychopaths, it's best we don't breed them. What I will strongly speask against is torture; what some parents do in the name of discipline is unacceptable.

Are you serious? I can't imagine EVER cussing at a child. Talk less my own child.

texanomaly:

Are you serious? I can't imagine EVER cussing at a child. Talk less my own child.

You are very gentle person as far as I can tell, so I'm not surprised you would say this. I will admit that cussing and spanking aren't desirable, my parents knew that much. I certainly won't flog a child for the things I got flogged for and I won't want to curse BUT every person has their limit and circumstance. That's all I can say. Of course, I won't cuss a little child, I'd have to be really annoyed to do that.

UyiIredia:

Your suggestions are good but there are factors which hinder them. In fact, my parents attempted some of these techniques; for example, we had a family forum where everyone aired their views. and why I preferred my mum to my DD was because she was the go-to person. The factors are as follows

1) Lack of patience on the side of parents
2) The presence of bad influence on the part of kids
3) Lack of availability of the parents due to the need to earn a living amongst other things
4) I should also add that trends in the wider society will rub off on kids. Some kids are smarter, some are stronger but kids are inquisitive and intuitive. As you yourself said, they watch us.

What you suggest will be easier to achieve in a village setting or for parents who are fortunate to have a flexible schedule. For working class people, it's difficult.

If you can't afford kids don't have them.

texanomaly:

If you can't afford kids don't have them.

Fair enough.

UyiIredia:

Fair enough.

Hey...You don't answer emails anymore sef?

texanomaly:

Hey...You don't answer emails anymore sef?

It's been sometime I checked them. I'm somewhat occupied. And don't forget my phone was stolen.

UyiIredia: It's been sometime I checked them. I'm somewhat occupied. And don't forget my phone was stolen.

Well I've sent you 2 emails checking up on you. I worry you know.

texanomaly:

Well I've sent you 2 emails checking up on you. I worry you know.

Thanks. I'll check.

UyiIredia:

Sometimes cussing and spanking are necessary , though one must be very careful with cursing, words are very powerful and many African parents are too quick to curse, I didn't like it but I did realize that it was for my good; though sometimes I was sure my parents were in the wrong. On some occasions they flogged me when angry; then there was the unrealistic expectation they would flog me in my 20's. I was never going to allow that.

Fact is, that flogging or not kids will be stubborn. But a kid who isn't given some spanking is more likely not to be moved by life's hard knocks. We have these psychopaths, it's best we don't breed them. What I will strongly speak against is torture; what some parents do in the name of discipline is unacceptable.

The part in bold, It's never ok, in my opinion, to swear/cuss/ use profane words at your child or anyone else's
Cussing is certainly not a kind or an intelligent way to express oneself.
I do understand frustrations and being overwhelmed sometimes makes words you really don't mean to say slip out but the constant use of nasty words is what I'm not in support of
It's a bad example to set before your child. When you cuss, they turn it around and cuss at you too (remember kids learn fast)
The world is too messed up to raise a delinquent and depressed child
I believe good communication, love and limits, when practiced consistently helps in raising a happy and healthy child

zeemoore:
I also think you're adopting a counterproductive approach that gentle discipline/loving guidance  is bad and must be avoided at all cost
The most effective "discipline" for a child is always positive, loving and gentle
Children learn best when they feel heard and valued, not when they feel on the defensive
I believe it's really not necessary to spank a child to have him understand the “error” of his ways.
I believe in communicating in a way that teaches rather than punishes
I believe in disciplining a child in ways that doesn't involve violence

*****
I know this question I'm about to ask is gossipy and none of my business but I'm curious to know, are you a family man/ do you have child(ren)?

I love this comment.

zeemoore:
I also think you're adopting a counterproductive approach that gentle discipline/loving guidance  is bad and must be avoided at all cost
The most effective "discipline" for a child is always positive, loving and gentle
Children learn best when they feel heard and valued, not when they feel on the defensive
I believe it's really not necessary to spank a child to have him understand the “error” of his ways.
I believe in communicating in a way that teaches rather than punishes
I believe in disciplining a child in ways that doesn't involve violence

*****
I know this question I'm about to ask is gossipy and none of my business but I'm curious to know, are you a family man/ do you have child(ren)?

Again you are assuming the kids are gentle, mature and rational.

Kay17:

Again you are assuming the kids are gentle, mature and rational.

That is what parenting is all about. It is our job as parents to teach them coping skills that will help them become mature, rational adults.

Kay17:

Again you are assuming the kids are gentle, mature and rational.

Again, you got my post twisted, and this time, I really don't know if it's intentional or not


How does grooming a child in more humane ways rather than inflicting pains in the name of discipline translates to moa assuming kids are "mature/rational" ?

Again, I ask, do you have kids?

It only confuses a child. And it often makes him harden his heart. Heartless kids start like that.

A good talk often sorts it. Don't let him start to think "last last na cane'.

zeemoore: Again, you got my post twisted, and this time, I really don't know if it's intentional or not


How does grooming a child in more humane ways rather than inflicting pains in the name of discipline translates to moa assuming kids are "mature/rational" ?

Again, I ask, do you have kids?

Wish you all the best.

texanomaly:

That is what parenting is all about. It is our job as parents to teach them coping skills that will help them become mature, rational adults.

But before they get mature and rational how do you deal with them with a method suitable for mature and rational people?! Isn't it a misfit of methods?

shoefreak: It only confuses a child. And it often makes him harden his heart. Heartless kids start like that.

A good talk often sorts it. Don't let him start to think "last last na cane'.

Even a good talk with adults leaves a lot unsaid.

Kay17:

But before they get mature and rational how do you deal with them with a method suitable for mature and rational people?! Isn't it a misfit of methods?

Did you read the article? I've dealt with some of the most stubborn, and even violent children. The techniques in the article work. Of course there may be times when things blow up, but that can be dealt with too. I'm not saying spanking doesn't have it's place. I just feel it should be a last resort.

texanomaly:

Did you read the article? I've dealt with some of the most stubborn, and even violent children. The techniques in the article work. Of course there may be times when things blow up, but that can be dealt with too. I'm not saying spanking doesn't have it's place. I just feel it should be a last resort.

@tex, I'm not going to doubt your communication skills, however I'm not just satisfied. Maybe your personality and aura along with your communication skills that breaks it for you.

Kay17:

@tex, I'm not going to doubt your communication skills, however I'm not just satisfied. Maybe your personality and aura along with your communication skills that breaks it for you.

Personality can definitely be a factor in how successful your parenting skills are. I've been told that I am a very loving and patient person. I do try. That, on top of the training and experience I have, culminate into the attitude I use, and the techniques I have perfected over the years.

Honestly, I wish every expectant parent was required to take a parenting class. Frankly, I don't care how the adults feel about it. Children don't ask to be brought into this world. They deserve better than what many have to endure.

texanomaly:

Personality can definitely be a factor in how successful your parenting skills are. I've been told that I am a very loving and patient person. I do try. That, on top of the training and experience I have, culminate into the attitude I use, and the techniques I have perfected over the years.

Honestly, I wish every expectant parent was required to take a parenting class. Frankly, I don't care how the adults feel about it. Children don't ask to be brought into this world. They deserve better than what many have to endure.

Whipping them reasonably and moderately is a sign of love also. For me, whipping is a form of condition to direct their behaviour into the desired patterns. You wouldn't always buy all the toys for them, or all the icecream, sometimes you have to force them to take the bitterest pills, force them to the best habits (waking up early, early independence, reading patterns). You just can't reason with them to have those done.

zeemoore:
Spanking/hitting (even when it appears to work) can produce only superficially good behavior based on fear, which can only take place until the child is old enough to resist

Same can be said of your so-called new age civilised non-hotting form of child discipline. Humans will naturally tow the path of least resistance and avoid pain and discomfort whenever or wherever it is necessary to do so

zeemore: while cooperation based on respect lasts permanently, bringing many years of mutual happiness as the child and parent grow older.

Yeah, that explains why all parent-children relationships in your heavenly America(your spelling gave you away) that didn't involve corporal punishment are thriving and brimming with love

zeemore:
Hitting is hitting, it's not love, neither is it discipline/teaching

So, what is withholding privileges and enforcing timeouts? Would you classify those as love, and if so, how so? In my opinion though, withholding privileges is just withholding privileges, it is not an expression of love. It's just a means whereby a parent tries to control the actions of their child

zeemore:
Being a 'tiger mom/dad' doesn't make a child change his behavior, it only teaches him to avoid getting caught

The same can be said of pvssycat moms/dads. A child could learn to be smarter knowing well that there'd be no tv or video games or freedom if they're caught doing something. The thing is, as humans, we attempt to get away with whatever guilty pleasures we can resist especially when it means death by flogging or boredom

zeemore:
I guess you are one of the people who see their children as someone lesser than them and therefore they should be 'controlled'

No need to be condescending, you're don't have the right to command followership of your opinions.

zeemore: I just want you to know children learn attitudes and behaviors through observation and imitation of their parents' actions, for good or ill.
The violent teenagers you see everyday didn't fall from the sky

Yes, indeed. Though one wonders why there's so much high-school massacre in this Amayrica of civilisation and "love" by children from supposed enlightened parents. Wonder where they learnt how to shoot and bomb their school mates and teachers. Must be from their Nigerian facebook and twitter friends, don't you think?!

zeemoore:
This is why I stay off this section
The debates here are usually endless

Mr Kay, I hope you hold on to whatever you feel is the right way to train up a child
Cuss, spank, yell, tie him to an ant's nest so he'd remember the pains and the pains will in turn make him a better man
Do whatever you like with your child
Afterall, the child is yours and not someone else'
I can only imagine the "sweet memories" he'll have of his childhood when he grows up


*** I'm sincerely sorry if you find my post offensive

Toss the melodrama and condescension, woman. Has Kay17 allded to cussing or strangling hos children? Maybe you shouldn't be opening threads like this if you have no interest in debate. This is an open forum not your private journal.