HEY GUYS, GOD IS THE SAME ALWAYS, CHANGES NOT, INCREASES NOT IN WEIGHT, INTELLECT,COMPASSION ETC, THAT'S WHY ITS SO PROFOUND. TIME NOTWITHSTANDING,
SO MY QUESTION IS SIMPLE?
"ALL WHO CAME BEFORE ME, WERE ROBBERS AND THIEVES"
"YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT SPIRIT YOU ARE MADE OF"
"LOVE THOSE WHO HATE AND DESPISE YOU",
ALL THESE ARE POPULAR QUOTES, THAT CLEARLY CONTRADICT THE THINKING OF THE "SUPPOSED MESSENGERS" OF GOD,BEFORE CHRIST. (OLD TESTAMENT)
YOU KNOW IT IS ONE THING TO "KNOW OF" SOMETHING AND TOTALLY DIFFERENT "TO KNOW" A THING,

SO I THINK A LOT OF "MISREPRESENTATION" OCCURRED IN THE BIBLE, TOTALLY ALIEN TO GOD, AND SINCE "HE" CHANGETH NOT, ?

IS THE BIBLE UNDILUTED WORD OF GOD?

_{Firstoff - do you hafta write in all CAPS?} 

Kunle, kunle, kunle, you always have some problem or issue with christians or the bible & you've got this the wrong way around brotha.
There is no "misrepresentation" of God in the bible. There are no contradictions or errors. No inconsistencies. The REAL problem is the human mind and its limited ability to fully understand the mysteries in word of God, its handicapped comphrension of spiritual things pertaining to the nature of God & its severely lacking capacity to completely wrap our minds around the character of God. This is the problem - not the bible.

Now my questions for you are:
-How one can say I follow the bible, but yet at the same time submit that it has/contains errors?
-How can you with confidence quote anything from it as absolute and true?
-and use it in as a manual for your life?
-and as substance to buttress your points in debates?
-when at the same time you don't believe it is a perfect book?
-what if the parts you're following are "wrong"?
-but yet quote it to others as unshakable truth?

  I'm just trying to reconcile the idea of a christian who doesn't believe in the inerrancy of the bible but yet subscribes to the same bible for everyday living.

@Jesoul
The bible was not given to us or sent to us by the holy spirit, the early chrisitans never used it in the format we use it today. the bible was compiled by catholic bishops around the year 356AD under the supervision of emperor constantine of Rome(A pagan) There are several versions and translations of the bible in existence which contradict each other. Even the popular Kings James version as been identified to have 300,000 translation errors. Several books considered as scripture by the early christians were omitted from the bible. There are also other bibles with different contents which did not originate from the catholic church surch as the greek orthodox bible and the ethopian bible. My dear i know we christians are sentimental about the bible and through church indoctrinantion we have been made to believe it is perfect. this is not so as there is no evidence from the holy spirit that the bible as we have it is from him or it is perfect. The hand and influence of man is heavily manifest in the bible even if you choose to deny it. That is not to say that the bible does not contain the word of God, it does but it also contains the opinions and biases of the Men that wrote the various books in it and the men that compiled it. The excuse that it is the inability of man to understand the bible doesn't hold water. cause the bible was written by men for the consumption and understanding of man. God would not present a book to us that we would not be able to fully understand if it was truly meant for us. Even when the early christians received the gift of speaking in tongues, some of them also received the gift of interpreting this tongues(unlike what we have today) so God would not give us something for our benefit that we cannot understand. Your excuse is the stereo type excuse of the clergy who can't even understand or explain some of these inconsistences in the bible. In my using the bible i let the spirit guide me based on the two greatest commandements Jesus left us and anything that does not conform to the spirit of christ in the bible i take with a pinch of salt.

KunleOshob:

@Jesoul
The bible was not given to us or sent to us by the holy spirit, the early chrisitans never used it in the format we use it today. the bible was compiled by catholic bishops around the year 356AD under the supervision of emperor constantine of Rome(A pagan) There are several versions and translations of the bible in existence which contradict each other. Even the popular Kings James version as been identified to have 300,000 translation errors. Several books considered as scripture by the early christians were omitted from the bible. There are also other bibles with different contents which did not originate from the catholic church surch as the greek orthodox bible and the ethopian bible. My dear i know we christians are sentimental about the bible and through church indoctrinantion we have been made to believe it is perfect. this is not so as there is no evidence from the holy spirit that the bible as we have it is from him or it is perfect. The hand and influence of man is heavily manifest in the bible even if you choose to deny it. That is not to say that the bible does not contain the word of God, it does but it also contains the opinions and biases of the Men that wrote the various books in it and the men that compiled it. The excuse that it is the inability of man to understand the bible doesn't hold water. cause the bible was written by men for the consumption and understanding of man. God would not present a book to us that we would not be able to fully understand if it was truly meant for us. Even when the early christians received the gift of speaking in tongues, some of them also received the gift of interpreting this tongues(unlike what we have today) so God would not give us something for our benefit that we cannot understand. Your excuse is the stereo type excuse of the clergy who can't even understand or explain some of these inconsistences in the bible. In my using the bible i let the spirit guide me based on the two greatest commandements Jesus left us and anything that does not conform to the spirit of christ in the bible i take with a pinch of salt.

@Kunle,

The first thing I would like to ask is this: is your ‘Christian’ faith a Biblical one or not?

I'm not the only concerned about this, and we can see that Jesoul'[/b]s rejoinder above points to the same thing. Many people just follow these allegations against the Bible by rote and not because they have actually checked for themselves if these things are so. Even if the early Christians did not have a canon as we do today, they definitely were not confused as to what the Christian message was – nor were they clueless as to what doctrines comprised their faith and which ones were contrary to their faith. It is such a laughable adventure for someone to hold these allegations against the same Book while appealing to it in his arguments in Christian doctrines.

[list]Isn’t it queer that the very Book accused of 300,00 errors is the very Book that brought me to the knowledge of the Saviour and Redeemer of all humanity?

Isn’t it queer that with all the allegations made against that one Book, [b]you don’t even know where you stand?

Isn’t it queer that with the allegations made against the Bible as being collated by a “pagan”, the man whom God used to bring these blessings to the world – ABRAHAM – was a “pagan” as well? (Josh. 24:2).

Isn’t it queer that the very Book that has been accused and maligned is the one you pretend to appeal to, so that whatever does not conform to the love of Christ you take with a pinch of salt? Is it not in that same Book that you find the love of Christ?

Isn’t it queer that the so-called “blanked-out” books you refer to do not add to your faith? Do you even believe and practise your ‘Christian’ faith based on any one of those so-called “blanked out” books?[/list]

My dear Kunle, the path you’re pursuing is nothing strange – you’re not alone. There are many I have met who appeal to these same excuses and more: they do not know where their hearts are, nor can they actually set their faith on what they postulate. If the Bible is not enough for these people because God used a “pagan” to collate the canon we have today, nothing will be enough for them even if God Himself were to come down and write the Bible with His own finger! Your arguments are not new: we have seen so many instances where you confuse your own assumptions.

That Book accused of 300,000 “errors” will decide your future. If its message is suspect to you, no worries: you can stop making these pretences of “believing” in it and yet accusing it.

JeSoul:

_{Firstoff - do you hafta write in all CAPS?}

Kunle, kunle, kunle, you always have some problem or issue with christians or the bible & you've got this the wrong way around brotha.
There is no "misrepresentation" of God in the bible. There are no contradictions or errors. No inconsistencies. The REAL problem is the human mind and its limited ability to fully understand the mysteries in word of God, its handicapped comphrension of spiritual things pertaining to the nature of God & its severely lacking capacity to completely wrap our minds around the character of God. This is the problem - not the bible.

Now my questions for you are:
-How one can say I follow the bible, but yet at the same time submit that it has/contains errors?
-How can you with confidence quote anything from it as absolute and true?
-and use it in as a manual for your life?
-and as substance to buttress your points in debates?
-when at the same time you don't believe it is a perfect book?
-what if the parts you're following are "wrong"?
-but yet quote it to others as unshakable truth?

I'm just trying to reconcile the idea of a christian who doesn't believe in the inerrancy of the bible but yet subscribes to the same bible for everyday living.

My brother Iam tired of Kunle, I don't know that other people are taking note too.

@KunleOshob(Poster),
With all modesty, your post depicts a confused man, one who doesn't really know what he believes in. What side are you really on? For the bible or against the bible?

Your manner of debating scriptures and doctrines practiced in today's world, comparing it with historical times, looking out for inconsistencies, reading up historical literary materials, soaking yourself up in theology, all add up to "a mind and soul in search of self-acclaimed knowledge", but not really getting the true message, no matter how hard you try. It's not a will-power thing, revelation is given by the Holy Spirit, its by God's grace. Wisdom can turn to foolishness! Solomon in the bible sef, with all his wisdom, at some point, he started acclaiming it all as vanity.

We should always endeavour to strive for humility and lowliness of heart. The thinking that everyone out there is doing it the wrong way, and you're always right, can be very detrimental. It doesn't add anything to you. Normally, when reading the bible, one's spirit is meant to be lifted, but when what you get is doubts and confusion, then it means your own wisdom is undoing you. Be careful, my brother.

Shocking things I just read on this thread:

KunleOshob:

The bible was not given to us or sent to us by the holy spirit

My dear i know we christians are sentimental about the bible and through church indoctrinantion we have been made to believe it is perfect. this is not so as there is no evidence from the holy spirit that the bible as we have it is from him or it is perfect.

That is not to say that the bible does not contain the word of God, it does but it also contains the opinions and biases of the Men that wrote the various books in it and the men that compiled it.

cause the bible was written by men for the consumption and understanding of man.

In my using the bible i let the spirit guide me based on the two greatest commandements Jesus left us and anything that does not conform to the spirit of christ in the bible i take with a pinch of salt.

 
    my dear Kunle, oga I knew you were out there on the fringes in some of the things you believe but infact I am so  shocked after reading the above I don't think I have anything else to say. I suggest you take Pilgrims suggestion and examine yourself very carefully to see if you're indeed in the faith.

pilgrim.1:

It is such a laughable adventure for someone to hold these allegations against the same Book while appealing to it in his arguments in Christian doctrines.

  Exactly my sista, I cannot understand how.
And Ud4u I'm glad I'm not the only one too who has noticed this.

I was quite aware that this post would provoke hostilities towards me and people would question my christian faith, but i am to strong in my faith and my relationship with my saviour that the opinions of others shaped by church doctrine can not even move me at best i would smile at their ignorance. this ignorance is understood cause indoctrination can be very mind bending and it as actually droven thousands of fanatical idiots to commit suicide bombing in the guise of keeping God's commandments in another faith. One thing is certain though christians in the first three hundred years of Christianity never used the bible as we have it today, the bible was never promised, given or sent by the holy spirit and there is evidence of flaws in it. The bible in the book of 2 corinthians tell me the that christ's message and spirit is written in my heart (not in the bible)

2 Corinthians 3:3:
3 Clearly, you are a letter from Christ showing the result of our ministry among you. This “letter” is written not with pen and ink, but with the Spirit of the living God. It is carved not on tablets of stone, but on human hearts.  

One question i want to ask those of you that hold the bible sacrosant: on whose authority is the bible declared to be perfect? is it constantine's authority, the catholic church authority, Bishop  Eusebus authority, Martin Luther's Authority or your local pastor's Authority cause i am not aware of any were Jesus Christ promised us a bible. It is Ironic that it is the same people that critisize the catholic church that would hold on sacrosantly to the bible they compiled.

My dear fellow christians i implore you all to hold on to your faith in Christ, open up your self to wisdom an serve him in spirit and in truth. You don't have to agree with my submissions especially if you have not matured in the faith but then seek ye first the Kingdom of God and every other thing shall be added on to you.

KunleOshob:

I was quite aware that this post would provoke hostilities towards me and people would question my christian faith, but i am to strong in my faith and my relationship with my saviour that the opinions of others shaped by church doctrine can not even move me at best i would smile at their ignorance. this ignorance is understood cause indoctrination can be very mind bending and it as actually droven thousands of fanatical idiots to commit suicide bombing in the guise of keeping God's commandments in another faith. One thing is certain though christians in the first three hundred years of Christianity never used the bible as we have it today, the bible was never promised, given or sent by the holy spirit and there is evidence of flaws in it. The bible in the book of 2 corinthians tell me the that christ's message and spirit is written in my heart (not in the bible)
2 Corinthians 3:3:
3 Clearly, you are a letter from Christ showing the result of our ministry among you. This “letter” is written not with pen and ink, but with the Spirit of the living God. [b]It is carved not on tablets of stone, but on human hearts. [/b]

So do tell us how do you know 2 Corinthians 3:3 is not a verse that was written out of the bias of a man?
how do you know that that is one of the "true" and "correct" verses?
How do you know this is not one of those verses that you need to take a "pinch of salt with"?

JeSoul:

So do tell us how do you know 2 Corinthians 3:3 is not a verse that was written out of the bias of a man?
how do you know that that is one of the "true" and "correct" verses?
How do you know this is not one of those verses that you need to take a "pinch of salt with"?

If you have the spirit of Christ in you, you would be able to discern that which is of Christ himslf and that which is of man.

so what happens when "my spirit of Christ" disagrees with "your spirit of Christ" on which verse is biased & correct and which verses should be thrown out?

whose "spirit of Christ" is the true one?

The spirit of christ is one. And it is based on infinite love not church opinionated manmade dotrines.

Indeed the Spirit of God is one and never changes.

  But since obviously we all disagree with you on this thread, I just want to know how you determine that 'your spirit of Christ' is the right one and not "our spirit of Christ". Since we don't agree on the issue at hand, we are certainly not "one" in this instance.

@Jesoul,

JeSoul:

So do tell us how do you know 2 Corinthians 3:3 is not a verse that was written out of the bias of a man?
how do you know that that is one of the "true" and "correct" verses?
How do you know this is not one of those verses that you need to take a "pinch of salt with"?

There is a term which people have used to describe this kind of problem: syncretism.

The issue with syncretism is that, its proponents do not necessarily declare openly that they do not trust the Bible - for they appeal to it "publicly" while on the other hand distrust it so that no one really knows where they stand. Don't get me wrong - they "say" that they cling unto Christ in all things and will adhere only to His Word. But bring the Bible and begin to open its pages for the Word of Christ, and they will ask you to close it immediately. Whereas this is always the case, they use Biblical terminologies, talk about love for Jesus, as well draw verses from the same Bible to debate their ideology; etc. But on closer look, they do not trust the Biblical message or the apostleship of the ministers of the NT.

Now, the above is not to say that I direct syncretism as a malady to KunleOshob. . at best, it seems that is where he had begun to be inclined while still alleging that others are "ignorant". We are thankful. All the same, if one cannot trust the Bible and only believes that God's Word is written on our hearts, is it not hypocritical for such people to appeal to the same Bible when arguing a case?

If God's Word is written on our hearts (as surely as is the case), one wonders: why even read the Bible? I have asked myself that question, and this is what I can confirm the Spirit of God lays upon my heart:

   ■  Prophecy
       God gave us His Word in written form that we may know for a certainty that
       His prophecies are true. If we never had the divine prophecies in the Word,
       then how shall we know that Jesus is actually the One who fulfilled them?
       This is why many cults have risen up denying the written prophecies in God's
       Word and have sought other things. If anything at all, without the written
       Word in Scripture, I would have no defence against the Mormon doctrine
       that refers to Jesus Christ as the brother of Lucifer!

   ■  Doctrine
       Doctrine is also give to us in written book form. They may have had to wait
       for a time to be collated as Scripture in a single volume in God's providence;
       but that does not mean therefore that believers were clueless about God's
       Ways and Word. It is for this reason that the Lord Jesus emphatically says:
       "It is written". . . "it is written". He was warning us against this very bane
       that derogates the written Word; and I've observed many times that those
       who fall into this error never hear what He said: Scripture cannot be broken!

   ■  Spiritual Growth
       Everytime God speaks to His people, He often turns them back to His Word -
       the very Word He inspired to be written. That is what He recommended to
       such men as Joshua, David and all Israel's Kings, and even to believers in
       our time! Paul points to this in Romans 15:4 in stating that whatsoever things
       were written aforetime, were written for our learning so that through patience
       and comfort of the Scriptures we might have hope.

  ■  Its Power
      We all know how the devil hates to hear this statement: "It is written!"
      Without question, it is the very thing that he seeks to rob believers of today -
      the written Word of God. Not that he seeks to deny that God has written His
      laws on our hearts; but more than that, the devil is seeking to break a true
      believer's convictions on the Word of God - the written Word of God. The Word
      in written form is like a covenant: that is the very foundation of the efficacy of
      Christ's redemptive sacrifice for us. We hear Him saying in Heb. 10:7 -
      "Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,)
       to do thy will, O God."  If it was not written, we would all be in trouble! That
       is why we should understand something fundamental here: when we are at
       liberty to treat the written Word with disdain, the devil laughs and is happy
       to know he already has victims! This is why we have the warning in the Word
       written in Book form: people be careful about this issue, or by arguing this
       way, some are taken by the devil to do his will (2 Tim. 2:25-26).

May God help us to value what He has given us.

Pilgrim,

pilgrim.1:

Whereas this is always the case, they use Biblical terminologies, talk about love for Jesus, as well draw verses from the same Bible to debate their ideology; etc. But on closer look, they do not trust the Biblical message or the apostleship of the ministers of the NT.
All the same, if one cannot trust the Bible and only believes that God's Word is written on our hearts, is it not hypocritical for such people to appeal to the same Bible when arguing a case?

I've been wondering oh my sista. To me both cannot be reconciled. You either believe all of it or none of it. We are not afforded the false luxury of choosing which parts to believe or which parts we think are applicable for us today. And I'm bewildered as to how brotha kunle cannot see this is an oxymoron.

The spirit of christ is one. And it is based on infinite love not church opinionated manmade dotrines.

It's good to know what state our heart is whenever we go through the scriptures. What do we seek whenever we study the word?

To learn more with meekness of heart? To find points to prove others with contrary opinions wrong? To continually seek more points to discredit the church and its doctrines? For personal spiritual growth? For intellectual prowess? To prove our debating knowledge & skills on this forum?

We need to understand this whenever we seek points to use in helping our posts on this thread, and if indeed we want to spread the truth from the word.  

@ Pilgrim.1,
Hi, long time no hear. Well done with your posts on this section on nairaland. I keep reading them, even though am not to active in posting. Without you, i wonder how many of the contrary opinions would have led some astray. I'm always refreshed and learning the word more, courtesy of your posts. Please keep it up.

@Jesoul,

JeSoul:

Pilgrim,
I've been wondering oh my sista. To me both cannot be reconciled. You either believe all of it or none of it. We are not afforded the false luxury of choosing which parts to believe or which parts we think are applicable for us today. And I'm bewildered as to how brotha kunle cannot see this is an oxymoron.

Lol, sis. . . I'm always blown away with your diction! The way you craft your message in few words and directly to the point, that is some wisdom I have been praying would rub off on me from you! True about that 'false luxury'. .lol. We just pray that dear Kunle would calm down and have a rethink on this matter.

Cheers.

@sleekymag,

sleekymag:

It's good to know what state our heart is whenever we go through the scriptures. What do we seek whenever we study the word?

To learn more with meekness of heart? To find points to prove others with contrary opinions wrong? To continually seek more points to discredit the church and its doctrines? For personal spiritual growth? For intellectual prowess? To prove our debating knowledge & skills on this forum?

Hmm, God has had to deal with me with regards to those highlighted parts. . quite humbling. Thanks for bringing them back to mind - the lessons are still fresh in my heart.

We need to understand this whenever we seek points to use in helping our posts on this thread, and if indeed we want to spread the truth from the word.

sleekymag:

@ Pilgrim.1,
Hi, long time no hear. Well done with your posts on this section on nairaland. I keep reading them, even though am not to active in posting. Without you, i wonder how many of the contrary opinions would have led some astray. I'm always refreshed and learning the word more, courtesy of your posts. Please keep it up.

Well, I'm doing okay, my bros. Busy, no doubt. . . but finding time inbetween. I didn't forget the questioons you raised in your thread about how to read the Bible, though - in due course I shall return to post more.

However, I should rather be thanking you guys for being there when I most needed you to be. The questions and critique of my inputs have all done me so much good that I've had to constantly go back and re-echeck them several times over. Even the way you called my attention to what I may not have carefully considered in the tithes thread - that was super and has refreshed me many times. May God fill you all with even more grace - to help not only me, but also to bless yourselves with His wisdom and others who need people like you to call us to the ways of His grace.

Regards.

@ pilgrim.1

I didn't forget the questioons you raised in your thread about how to read the Bible, though - in due course I shall return to post more.

I wonder why the main persons i directed those questions to "KunleOshob and anonimi", refused to answer those questions, either on dat thread or the one created 4 it.

pilgrim.1:

@Jesoul,

Lol, sis. . . I'm always blown away with your diction! The way you craft your message in few words and directly to the point, that is some wisdom I have been praying would rub off on me from you! True about that 'false luxury'. .lol. We just pray that dear Kunle would calm down and have a rethink on this matter.

Cheers.

you are such a darling Pilgrim thanks for the compliment gurl. And Sleekymag is right about your posts and how you take the time to address many false doctrines that would've gone otherwise unchecked. I pray God will continue to open the eyes of your heart to know Him better. Amen.


And Kunle I pray for you too. That whatever it is you search for, you will find complete rest and peace in the endless pursuit of simply knowing God.

JeSoul:

you are such a darling Pilgrim thanks for the compliment gurl. And Sleekymag is right about your posts and how you take the time to address many false doctrines that would've gone otherwise unchecked. I pray God will continue to open the eyes of your heart to know Him better. Amen.

well said, JeSoul. u all r wonderful!

I ask myself why did i decide to post this thread? the answer is simple, i do not seek to create doubts in any christian's faith what i seek to do is to re-inforce our collective faith through the true gospel of our lord Jesus Christ which is primarily based on love then followed by salvation. Whilst the bible contains the truth about the gospel of christ it also contains a lot that are not of him(that was why he was always quarelling with the pharisees and saducees who were more into indoctrination). The bible is voluminous and it has and is still being used to confuse people on a daily basis. Preachers quote it out of context and find irrelevant scriptures to our christian living from it to confuse us and keep us under their control.

I grew up to believe the bible just like every other chrisitan, i then gave my life and discovered christ, his spirit and his true gospel. I wanted to know more and i studied the bible. To understand the bible better i studied bible history and origins. i also studied about early christianity. i zeroed in on the gospel of christ and the holy spirit revealed his truth to me which i would like to share with others, but the people that call themselves christians would be the first to attack me with insultive words (very unchrist like).To all my brethen out their even if you attempt to defend the sacrosanctity of the bible you can NEVER defend christ cause he is able to to do all things withou any body's help.

My persuasion to share this word with others is cause of all the confusion which we have in the christian world today, over 30,000 different denominatons all preaching varied doctrine from the use of the same source. Is that not confusion? is that the faith christ inspired? The most upsetting thing is that the most important lesson christ lived, shared and taught us (Love and humility) is not even being practised or encouraged by most churches. indoctrination and word of mere men as taken precedence over the true Gospel and today people are going o church for the wrong selfish and self righteuos reasons. the real essence of the church as been lost over the centuries and we don't realize it. My fellow brethen beleive it or not the church as seriously strayed from the church established by christ and our salvation is not in the church neither is it in the bible but it is in our hearts were the holy spirit recides.

I do not suggest to or encourage any one to dis-card the bible i read it daily and i profit from it myself. What i am saying is that we should allow the spirit of christ discern for us when we read it cos we have been warned that that men would present their words as the word of God thee hundred years before the bible existed.

1 John 4
1 Dear friends, do not believe everyone who claims to speak by the Spirit. You must test them to see if the spirit they have comes from God. For there are many false prophets in the world.

Matthew 15:9:

9But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

The highlighted scripture were written at least three hundred years before the bible was compiled, in effect it warns us to be wary and test whatever we are told ( old we read) to see if the spirit comes from God. I rest my case.

KunleOshob:

Whilst the bible contains the truth about the gospel of christ it also contains a lot that are not of him(that was why he was always quarelling with the pharisees and saducees who were more into indoctrination). The bible is voluminous and it has and is still being used to confuse people on a daily basis. Preachers quote it out of context and find irrelevant scriptures to our christian living from it to confuse us and keep us under their control.

  huh    oga Kunle that does not make any sense. I implore you to please explain: How does the fact that some have twisted & abused the bible for their own selfish reasons, reflect badly on the bible itself?

i zeroed in on the gospel of christ and the holy spirit revealed his truth to me which i would like to share with others, but the people that call themselves christians would be the first to attack me with insultive words (very unchrist like).

   Dabi. it is not true. I don't see anywhere on this thread were anyone has come close to 'insulting' you kunle. Ejo, please do insert the quotes where anyone has done so.

My persuasion to share this word with others is cause of all the confusion which we have in the christian world today, over 30,000 different denominatons all preaching varied doctrine from the use of the same source. Is that not confusion? is that the faith christ inspired? The most upsetting thing is that the most important lesson christ lived, shared and taught us (Love and humility) is not even being practised or encouraged by most churches. indoctrination and word of mere men as taken precedence over the true Gospel and today people are going o church for the wrong selfish and self righteuos reasons. the real essence of the church as been lost over the centuries and we don't realize it. My fellow brethen beleive it or not the church as seriously strayed from the church established by christ and our salvation is not in the church neither is it in the bible but it is in our hearts were the holy spirit recides.

  and why does it bother you so much what others are doing? why should it pierce you so much how others are living? will you not only give account of yourself? whether there are 50 billion sects or not, what has that got to do with the integrity of the bible? Again just because people have misused the scriptures, that does not = scriptures are not to be fully used and fully trusted. Dost thou not see the fatal flaw in this line of reasoning?

Dear Kunle,

Could I point out a few things here in your rejoinder?

KunleOshob:

I ask myself why did i decide to post this thread? the answer is simple, i do not seek to create doubts in any christian's faith what i seek to do is to re-inforce our collective faith through the true gospel of our lord Jesus Christ which is primarily based on love then followed by salvation. Whilst the bible contains the truth about the gospel of christ it also contains a lot that are not of him(that was why he was always quarelling with the pharisees and saducees who were more into indoctrination). The bible is voluminous and it has and is still being used to confuse people on a daily basis. Preachers quote it out of context and find irrelevant scriptures to our christian living from it to confuse us and keep us under their control.

First, any part that you quote from Scripture for any pointer to your faith, only means that you are quoting the Word of God. If you are to sustain that the Bible contains truth "about" the Gospel of Christ and also contains a lot that are not of Him, you no longer have the Christian faith before you. "ALL Scripture" was inspired by the Holy Spirit, and to allege that the Bible contains a lot that are not of Christ is to deny the Spirit who inspired them. Whether we read of the works of the Pharisees and Sadduces in the Bible, it is the same - and you cannot argue that it should not be part of the Bible.

KunleOshob:

I grew up to believe the bible just like every other chrisitan, i then gave my life and discovered christ, his spirit and his true gospel. I wanted to know more and i studied the bible. To understand the bible better i studied bible history and origins. i also studied about early christianity. i zeroed in on the gospel of christ and the holy spirit revealed his truth to me which i would like to share with others, but the people that call themselves christians would be the first to attack me with insultive words (very unchrist like).

Hang on a minute or two: no one is going to attack you for sharing your convictions. If the brethren have to correct some of the unsound principles you espouse, does that translate into "attack"? Besides, your worry about being insulted does not hold water here: in the recent past you have been gleeful at doing precisely that very thing at others on the basis of your disagreement with what they teach. Was that "Christlike" of you?

KunleOshob:

To all my brethen out their even if you attempt to defend the sacrosanctity of the bible you can NEVER defend christ cause he is able to to do all things withou any body's help.

I'm sure that I'm not the only one who has recognized that the Christian was never called to defend Christ or God (though some would try to do so). However, we are called to earnestly contend for the faith once delivered unto the saints (Jude 3).

KunleOshob:

My persuasion to share this word with others is cause of all the confusion which we have in the christian world today, over 30,000 different denominatons all preaching varied doctrine from the use of the same source. Is that not confusion? is that the faith christ inspired?

Lol, I think you're getting it wrong. The sectarian spirit that is manifest today in Christendom is not a new thing - it was prophesied of by the apostles as coming both from within and outside the Church (Acts 20:29-30). However, because God is not the author of confusion, such a phenomenon does not faze me nor should any true believer be fazed by such. Outside Christianity, men are known to have argued and actually been divided on so many things: sports, politics, economic forecasts, evolutionary biology, religion, culture, and even domestic issues. While the division is decried as deplorable in the Church, we should never be taken by surprise about these things, for man's nature is always to be divisive on anything commited to his trust.

KunleOshob:

The most upsetting thing is that the most important lesson christ lived, shared and taught us (Love and humility) is not even being practised or encouraged by most churches. indoctrination and word of mere men as taken precedence over the true Gospel and today people are going o church for the wrong selfish and self righteuos reasons. the real essence of the church as been lost over the centuries and we don't realize it. My fellow brethen beleive it or not the church as seriously strayed from the church established by christ and our salvation is not in the church neither is it in the bible but it is in our hearts were the holy spirit recides.

One's salvation does not negate the fact that a believer needs to depend on the written Word for spiritual growth. The apostle Peter tells us that we should seek the sincere milk of the Word that we may grow thereby (1 Peter 2:2). Guess what - he also recognized the fact that the Gospel was written long before you and I were born, and pious men as well angels long to "look into" the things that appertain to our salvation (1 Peter 1:10-12). While salvation is received in the heart, the saved person has to subject his heart to the written Word of God if spiritual growth would be his or hers. Doodling with the written Word is surely a sign of a rebellious spirit waiting to manifest (Psa. 50:17-18).

KunleOshob:

I do not suggest to or encourage any one to this-card the bible i read it daily and i profit from it myself. What i am saying is that we should allow the spirit of christ discern for us when we read it because we have been warned that that men would present their words as the word of God thee hundred years before the bible existed.

I wonder why you even bother to read the Bible after alleging by rote that it has 300,000 errors. The easiest way to walk by the Spirit of God is to ask Him to show you if indeed His Word holds 300,000 errors when you open it to read - let Him answer and confirm the case to you with a clear and loud "yes". But if He does not say so, don't you think something is seriously wrong with the position you have occupied in this ideology?

KunleOshob:

1 John 4
1 Dear friends, do not believe everyone who claims to speak by the Spirit. You must test them to see if the spirit they have comes from God. For there are many false prophets in the world.

Matthew 15:9:

9But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

The highlighted scripture were written at least three hundred years before the bible was compiled, in effect it warns us to be wary and test whatever we are told ( old we read) to see if the spirit comes from God. I rest my case.

You know, those scriptures penned before you quoted them are the very ones that should help you re-think your argument. It makes a lot of sense that someone who doubts the veracity of Scripture should have no business quoting from any part of it to rest his case upon (Psa. 50:16).

Shalom.

There is no such thing as "blaspheming". It's a corruption passed down through the ages.
It came about because of the commandment "Thou shalt not take the name of the lord god in vain".
People thought this referred to blaspheming. It doesn't.

To the Jews it quite literally meant "Do not say the name of God". Back then, the name of god was thought to have magical properties and somebody who used it would have strong juju. So the commandment quite literally means "Do not say god's name".

There was no such thing as blaspheming. There didn't need to be. The Jews believed that if you blasphemed, their god would strike you down immediately anyway.

I told this Kunle guy to take things easy earlier in the year.Now he has being diagnosed of syncretism.May God help him

I don't disagree with Kunle. Okay, perhaps I don't agree either, but what I believe I see is a guy pursuing an honest enquiry. I'm not comfortable with everyone ganging up on him. He has raised numerous points over the last few months that haven't properly been addressed by those on this thread that are trying to bully him.

Pastor AIO:

I don't disagree with Kunle. Okay, perhaps I don't agree either, but what I believe I see is a guy pursuing an honest enquiry. I'm not comfortable with everyone ganging up on him. He has raised numerous points over the last few months that haven't properly been addressed by those on this thread that are trying to bully him.

Great that you don't agree with him. Question is: why? What we need to understand here is that nobody is bullying him - that is just missing the whole point! If someone is proposing an ideology that is antithetical to the fundamentals of his own faith and then passes it off as the veracity of the Christian faith, we want to know how he could rationally justify such a position. And talk about addressing the points he raised, please check and see if he has addressed the concerns attending upon his own postulations.

pilgrim.1:

Great that you don't agree with him. Question is: why? What we need to understand here is that nobody is bullying him - that is just missing the whole point! If someone is proposing an ideology that is antithetical to the fundamentals of his own faith and then passes it off as the veracity of the Christian faith, we want to know how he could rationally justify such a position. And talk about addressing the points he raised, please check and see if he has addressed the concerns attending upon his own postulations.

My dear you miss the point again, my faith is not in the bible my faith is in God manifested to us trhough his son Christ Jesus. And his gospel is revealed to me in spirit and written on my heart. I see the bible as a tool which can aid spiritual growth if used correctly. The bible could also be used to perpetuate evil and deceive people if used with the wrong intentions.

To all my brethen who have been indoctrinated into believing the bible as it is compiled is divine, i asked a few questions earlier none of you as even offered to answe any of these potent questions. On whose authority was the bible compiled, for what purpose and who were those that compiled it. If you guys are aware of the crimes to humanity carried out by the very people who compiled this book and what they used this book for maybe you would have a re-think. Today most of you view the catholic church with suspision for various reasons, yet you you can vouch 100% for the book they passed on to you even though Martin luther editted it. On whose authoritydid martin luther edit the bible and if the bible was divine why did it need to be editted?

PS: I am not out to discourage any christian but to try and assist us to understand our faith better and basis of it.

pilgrim.1:

Great that you don't agree with him. Question is: why?

It's not 'Great' that I don't agree with him.  It's just the matter of fact.  Why?  Well for a start he hasn't really arrived at a conclusion to agree or disagree with.  That is why I said Perhaps I don't agree.  He has to take a position first before I can agree or disagree.  

If someone is proposing an ideology that is antithetical to the fundamentals of his own faith and then passes it off as the veracity of the Christian faith, we want to know how he could rationally justify such a position.

Just what are these fundamentals of his faith?  He has called to question the validity of the bible (as a whole) for basing your faith on.  I think it is extremely duplicitous to try to pass the bible off as a single monolithic tome on which christianity is based.  The Bible consists of various books and letters.  No one can doubt that the practice of christianity has changed over the millenia and it continues to change today.  The early christians were not bible wielding legalists.  There simply was no bible at that time. How can any christian today pass off his position as the veracity of the christian faith more than any other?  It seems to irk you that he passes his position off as the veracity of the christian faith.  Well, don't you do the same?  How do you 'rationally justify such a position'?

While I hate to speak for other people, and I'm quite sure that KunleOshob can speak for himself, I seem to recall his pointing out in previous posts that the early christian church was a hell of a lot more charitable in it's activities that the contemporary churches are.   There were other practices that are today nonexistent in most churches.  The question is   . . . can you call it a duck when it goes 'woof' and wags it's tail.

JeSoul:

    and why does it bother you so much what others are doing? why should it pierce you so much how others are living? [b]will you not only give account of yourself?[/b] whether there are 50 billion sects or not, what has that got to do with the integrity of the bible? Again just because people have misused the scriptures, that does not = scriptures are not to be fully used and fully trusted. Dost thou not see the fatal flaw in this line of reasoning?

Another glaring example of Loveless and selfish christianity. Why does it bother me?? Cause as a christian i have learnt to love my brethen and i am concerned about their faith and salvation not just mine. As a christian if God reveals a fundermental truth to me, i would not be serving my Lord and saviour well if i keep this truth just to myself. My brand of christianity is not the popular selfish type that it why it bothers me so much.

The inconsisitencies in the bible have droven several people away from the faith and a good number into atheism just becos the bible was presented to them as the 'undiluted word of God". It is very unfortunate that we as christians continue to present a book written and compiled by men as the "undiluted word of God" even when we know for a fact that the make up of the bible was determined by mortal men who belonged to a christian sect most of us don't even trust.