NINETOFIVE:

What happened to the idea of coming up with a systematic way of collecting taxes, most people pay taxes not by choice, there has to be a complete mechanism to make you pay your taxes, Nigerians are too quick at copying, but at the same time, are too simplistic or just simply naive, is horrendous that most of the replies here are at an equal rate simplistic, or would I be right to think that there is a hiding catch here, cause that is the only smart explation. making people to collectively loose their livelyhood is not in the least fair, believe me the trickle down effect of this action is going to be cumbersome, If this is not pure witch hunt every case should have been dealt with on individual bases, right now Awo's principle comes to mind.

I am sorry @NINETOFIVE, but I really feel I need to keep reposting this till the message in this is understood. It seems the core message in that continues to be ignored by those who seem to be especially enamored of the man, fashola, and unable to see that this whole is more about the people than one man. I wonder why anyone could find it impossible to separate the policy from the man and actually focus on the reality of things on the people, and the potential meaning of what happened.

I dont know what kinda clowns we gat in this NL.

One of them says the alaba boys pay tax when they import. does that mean they wont pay Tax. Is it only Tax they are su[pposed to pay? dont u know they still get the VAT back when they cost their goods?

The Shops at the palms pay VAT also when they import. Dont they still pay tax to the government for doing business in the state? you guys must have lost all your minds and it seems there is no education here that will make sense to y'all.

Because it is ALABA then they should not pay tax.

Look whether y'all like it or not, you must pay your tax or else The government will lock you down and not even Gani will support you in court.

CLOWNS!!!

I have one question for you all including kobo


If a person doing business in alaba is taken to the court for tax evasion, what will be you defence if you were to represent him in court. If you cant answer that, shut the hell up on this thread!

Kobojunkie:

Quote from: NINETOFIVE on Yesterday at 06:34:02 AM
What happened to the idea of coming up with a systematic way of collecting taxes, most people pay taxes not by choice, there has to be a complete mechanism to make you pay your taxes, Nigerians are too quick at copying, but at the same time, are too simplistic or just simply naive, is horrendous that most of the replies here are at an equal rate simplistic, or would I be right to think that there is a hiding catch here, cause that is the only smart explanation. making people to collectively loose their livelyhood is not in the least fair, believe me the trickle down effect of this action is going to be cumbersome, If this is not pure witch hunt every case should have been dealt with on individual bases, right now Awo's principle comes to mind.

I am sorry @NINETOFIVE, but I really feel I need to keep reposting this till the message in this is understood. It seems the core message in that continues to be ignored by those who seem to be especially enamored of the man, fashola, and unable to see that this whole is more about the people than one man. I wonder why anyone could find it impossible to separate the policy from the man and actually focus on the reality of things on the people, and the potential meaning of what happened.

I genuinely could see you have a deeper understanding of what am driving at, Kudos, though it continues to elude a lot of people here, the afore mention simplistic thought process is still pretty much prevalent here. The massage is pretty short but it was well thought out, thanks.

I wonder why anyone could find it impossible to separate the policy from the man and actually focus on the reality of things on the people, and the potential meaning of what happened.

thanks for this statement above, lets put it this way, is very clear that in south east London there are pockets of cases of piracy there, if the British Government would go ahead and close all the shops in south east London instead of going after the culprits, would we all not cry racism? we all know the demography of both Computer village and Alaba, Africans would never learn.

Quote from: NINETOFIVE on Yesterday at 06:34:02 AM
What happened to the idea of coming up with a systematic way of collecting taxes, most people pay taxes not by choice, there has to be a complete mechanism to make you pay your taxes, Nigerians are too quick at copying, but at the same time, are too simplistic or just simply naive, is horrendous that most of the replies here are at an equal rate simplistic, or would I be right to think that there is a hiding catch here, cause that is the only smart explanation. making people to collectively loose their livelyhood is not in the least fair, believe me the trickle down effect of this action is going to be cumbersome, If this is not pure witch hunt every case should have been dealt with on individual bases, right now Awo's principle comes to mind.

SELF ASSESSMENT RETURNS (Self Employed)

Self-assessment system was introduced in Nigeria with effect from 1 st January 1991 and it has been operational since then at the Federal Level and in Lagos State.

Under the scheme, tax payers are required to complete the Self-Assessment Tax Return Form 1 R 30.4 (Copy obtainable free of charge from all the Board of Internal Revenue Offices which are located in all areas of the State.

The completed tax return form showing the computation of the liability together with the relevant financial statements, detailed schedules and accompanied with payment of the tax due Is to be filed with the appropriate tax office within the time permitted by law. There is also a general tax guide which accompanies the self-assessment tax form to assist tax payers in completing the Form.

The TAX remittance procedures in Lagos are:

1. Taxpayer goes to the Tax Station to obtain Tax Assessment and Bank Payment Advice

2. Taxpayer goes to the bank with the assessment/ Bank Payment Advice, obtains the customised teller, completes the set correctly and pays to the bank

3. Taxpayer drops the Accountant General’s copy of the teller in the box while he/she goes away with two (2) copies of the teller temporarily.

4. Taxpayer goes back to the bank after Value Date to collect the receipt.

5. Taxpayer presents the Original Receipt at the Tax Station/Agency to complete the transaction for which assessment was obtained (if necessary).

NB: Only one receipt will be issued per teller.


Ignorance is never an excuse of falling foul of the law.

If traders can source all their goods abroad, go through all the processes, forms, etc of getting their "containers" to Niaja, Go through all the processes of getting their containers off the ships and through customs and then claim ignorance and cry foul when asked to pay taxes for selling their goods in a federal state then they deserve what they get from LSG.

So because the law clearly states that tax evaders should be prosecuted it would have been better for the LSG to go to the market and arrest and prosecute all those traders who could not prove that they had been paying tax?

If the LSG had gone that route, and the traders not only lost their daily trading profits, but also had to pay legal bills and be saddled with a criminal record on top, then you all would be back here again decrying "Draconian State Government" yada , yada, yada.

*smh*


Report to moderator L

Unfortunately I could not find a correlation between what you've written and a propper taxation mechanism and ways to hold the government accountable, the actions of the so called fashola is pretty much eratic in nature, and gives away the fact that there is no proper data of the people in the so called market or the whole of Nigeria for that matter, people can not be dealt with as a block in this instance when they are almost from the same ethnic group, there has to be a sort of balance and fairness or we might be sending a wrong signal.

NINETOFIVE:


Unfortunately I could not find a correlation between what you've written and a propper taxation mechanism and ways to hold the government accountable, the actions of the so called fashola is pretty much eratic in nature, and gives away the fact that there is no proper data of the people in the so called market or the whole of Nigeria for that matter, people can not be dealt with as a block in this instance when they are almost from the same ethnic group, there has to be a sort of balance and fairness or we might be sending a wrong signal.

I appreciate that logic and basic deduction are not a skill that all people are endowed with.

Let me try and break it down for you.

I will explain based on the assumption that  the people in the market are self and employed actually[b] want to comply[/b] with the states tax legislation.

The state govt goes on an extensive exercise to tell people that people need to pay their taxes ( market traders included).

The same state govt spend a lot of money liaising with banks for collection, drawing up documents explaining the process etc, which info is made available at all tax offices in Lagos state.

The state government goes on to set up a website where all information relating to tax in Lagos state is published as well as all the necessary forms , info on processes etc is published.

The same state govt then gets into discussion with duly elected representatives of the traders making them aware that their members are not complying with state tax legislation.

This goes on for over a month ( no response from the [b]elected representatives [/b]of the traders).

While these negotiations are going on the state govt continues with its tax compliance mobilization campaign, and the elected representatives start collecting monies from their members but fail to make the necessary payments to the state.

On a certain date the state decides realises that these people are not willing to comply despite all these efforts that we have made.

A week or so later the state agencies move into the market and shut the market down.

Now can you please explain to me why the state should be held accountable and the taxpayers not?

What efforts have these taxpayers made to be compliant given all the avenues that the sate has made available to them?

I will be really interested in your response.

@ Amaka

Dont waste your energy any futher; you have done your best. Most of them arguing and blaming the government dont even stay in Lagos or are in lagos but dont pay tax.

This whole thing dont mean much to them. so dont sweat it any more.

I asked them earlier what their defence is for some one charged to court for tax evasion and no one could come up with even a stupid answer. so just leave them in their ignorance but one thing i know, if you do not pay tax in lagos, u will be brought down! if you dont believe it go ask the computer villagers.

and this is just the start

cabali

You seem to have a superficial knowledge of tax policies. Fashola cannot have a tax policy that only targets  market traders. How does Fashola go against  other merchants who may not have  an enclosed trading complex in Lagos? How about hair salons,  road side mechanics, car wash stations, mama puts, tailors, etc? The fact is that its easier to close a market and intimidate them to submission. Where in  LSG law book does it  say that an entire market  should be closed for non paying of LSG taxes. Are you telling me that there are no traders who are up to date in their taxes before computer village was closed?
If we are talking about taxes, we should follow the rule of law; Lagos state govt should prosecute tax evaders and let justice take its course. Arrest  and charge them to court and judges will hand  down sentences and penalties. Fashola is not Col Marwa for goodness sake . This is how it works in a taxation by representation democracies, but unfortunately all the Fashola praise singers would not see that  the governor has acted beyond his powers. We are saying guilty as charged without even testing these cases in competent law courts. In Lagos its guilty until proven innocent, but in taxation through representation democracies, its innocent until proven guilty.

Its hard for us to see that illegality cannot beget legality. Taxes are issues of legality so Fashola MUST employ legal moves in order to go after tax  evaders, but then again, this is Lagos where its easier to cut corners. I am yet to any reasonable response from all these Fashola   tax hawks on to hold the government accountable based on  the money it collects monthly from FG and taxpayers.  Taxation does not come in anticipation of supposed services, but a price for having provided basic services.

This is arrant nonsense from all these Yoruba, hausa and other nigerian minority folks. When it's to kill Igbo people by any means, that's what unites you foolish nigerians. Until other Yoruba dominated markets are closed on such idiotic excuse, then you people can come back here to talk. As for now, this is pure and complete witch hunting of Igbo business, trying your other means to check mate the ever expanding Igbo Business.

Asking people to pay tax by force of closing their shops where you don't have a serious tax collecting system in place is nothing but pure insanity. Those of you using America and Europe as your comparison, have you ever asked yourself why tax payers in those countries rush up to pay their taxes instead of waiting for their IRS to come asking for it? Have you ever seen anybody who in his whole sincere most heart is ever willing to pay taxes?

You can claim there is, but fact is there is not, but the solid systems in place makes it possible for people in those countries to pay up their taxes or face the law. Yet under such solid and tight tax collecting systems in those countries, there are still people evading and finding their ways through it and successfully avoid paying taxes. In those countries you are blindly using as comparison, every official registered businesses, how ever big or small must have their own accountancy office where they are affiliated to and this is by law and they pay this accountancy office at the end of the month.  The job of this accountancy offices is to account for everyday sales of their customers who are these business shops, industries and so on.

Some accountancy offices might have up to 20 business shops under their care, this in turn makes them to employ more workers. Such is part of the job creation that you porous heads in nigeria doesn't know about. You have fresh university accountant graduates roaming your Lagos streets without work and all you idiots are here hailing your fashola for closing down Igbo businesses. Each an everyday, this accountancy offices knows each and every sales that their client's selling machines recorded for the day.

All the sales receipts are turn in to those accountancy offices on daily or weekly bases depending on your agreement with your accountancy office. The accountancy office in turn is responsible for calculating your everyday business sales and turning in the record to IRS which in turn sends you your tax bill for the month. Now, don't pay and face the IRS music. Do you see that IRS don't deal directly with business owners, rather they deal with your accountancy office. Now, i am giving example about holding the little business shops accountable for paying up their taxes. Check out how many accountancy offices that will spring up in Lagos if every shop is forced by law to be affiliated to an accountancy office. Check out how many fresh graduates those accountancy office will employ and finally check out how easy it will be to collect taxes from those alaba shoppers.

What makes these accountancy offices attractive in those countries to have them account for your business is that they will also in turn help your business to grow. You don't spend unnecessarily when you know that someone is counting all the money you made in your everyday sales and that tax will be deducted from your money according to the account he made and presented to your country's IRS and not according to your own very account which "must" have cheating inside it against the government.

In those countries you are quick to blindly use as comparison, no registered business does their everyday sales account by themselves. It is not allowed by law. You must be affiliated to an accountancy office that does your everyday sales calculation and you pay them for their services. Check out how many accountants such offices will employ in your nigeria if such rule is being used other than sending Yoruba alayes in uniforms with tax office receipts in their hands to invade Igbo shop/businesses in the name of collecting tax. That is not an efficient way of collecting tax from anyone. Don't expect anyone to pay you tax through such way.

All of you opening your dirty stinking mouths here, have anyone of you or your parents and siblings ever paid tax at anytime or the other in nigeria? Tell your almajiri government in connivance with their Yoruba servers to copy the American and European tax collecting systems and put it in place in your rotten country nigeria and lets see how people are going to evade taxes. In those countries, we hear that so and so individual is being hunted by the tax officials, not a whole group of people and their businesses. You people are claiming to be blind to read the wicked writing on the wall because it involves Igbo people and their businesses.

Why must everything be tribal abeg?

see this is the type of thinking that results in hat is happening in Jos today.
Igbo this, Yoruba that, Hausa the other.
People are talking tax and law enforcement you want to bring tribalism into it

And for the record I am 100% Igbo

AMAKAONE:

Why must everything be tribal abeg?

see this is the type of thinking that results in hat is happening in Jos today.
Igbo this, Yoruba that, Hausa the other.
People are talking tax and law enforcement you want to bring tribalism into it

And for the record I am 100% Igbo

Shut up for goodness sake. If you don't see the wicked writing on the wall and call it what is it, then you are a fool. And don't bring that you are Igbo card to play here cause it doesn't convince anyone. You can equally tell us how all your friends are Igbos, or is that out of fashion for you guys? Which reasonable people/country uses such idiotic way in making people pay their taxes? is Alaba and Ikaja IT markets the only markets in Lagos?

Why don't they start from Yoruba or awusa dominated markets or put up a solid tax collecting system in place? You don't go hounding people in their shops and telling them to pay tax. Which tax? How do you know how muh such person and the other person made in each month and how much they have to pay as taxes? or do you want to tell us that in your useless country nigeria, that tax is fixed at a particular amount that every business owner must pay? You don't put in place a mechanism to help you know how much each an everyone of them make everyday, week and month, yet you want to collect taxes from them? How much do you want them to pay so you can be satisfied? is that how countries grow? A country that have fixed rate taxes?

Don't you read up what i wrote above about how reasonable people/countries use to collect taxes from their citizens without any hassle and on the process  creat jobs for it's citizens? Ewu, why must your beloved nigeria's own be any different, yet when they want to start with their dubious ways of collecting taxes, they will first start it with Igbo businesses? Ewu, i am here to say it as it is. If you want to hide under what ever "i am Igbo" that's your own fukcing business, but try your best to say things as they are.

Amakaone@


If you can honestly tell me how many times you and your relatives in Naija who dont pay taxes have been hounded by govt agents, then there is a dicrimantory application of govt laws in shutting down these markets.
Let the justice we all yearn for start from us.

QuotaSyste:

Shut up for goodness sake. If you don't see the wicked writing on the wall and call it what is it, then you are a fool. And don't bring that you are Igbo card to play here cause it doesn't convince anyone. You can equally tell us how all your friends are Igbos, or is that out of fashion for you guys? Which reasonable people/country uses such idiotic way in making people pay their taxes? is Alaba and Ikaja IT markets the only markets in Lagos?

Why don't they start from Yoruba or awusa dominated markets or put up a solid tax collecting system in place? You don't go hounding people in their shops and telling them to pay tax. Which tax? How do you know how muh such person and the other person made in each month and how much they have to pay as taxes? or do you want to tell us that in your useless country nigeria, that tax is fixed at a particular amount that every business owner must pay? You don't put in place a mechanism to help you know how much each an everyone of them make everyday, week and month, yet you want to collect taxes from them? How much do you want them to pay so you can be satisfied? is that how countries grow? A country that have fixed rate taxes?

Don't you read up what i wrote above about how reasonable people/countries use to collect taxes from their citizens without any hassle and on the process  creat jobs for it's citizens? Ewu, why must your beloved nigeria's own be any different, yet when they want to start with their dubious ways of collecting taxes, they will first start it with Igbo businesses? Ewu, i am here to say it as it is. If you want to hide under what ever "i am Igbo" that's your own fukcing business, but try your best to say things as they are.

And how exactly does your ranting and cursing me and my relations change the fact that this is about tax collection and evasion?

And how does that justify your suggesting that they start with "Yoruba" markets and not "Igbo " markets. who designated them as such anyway? You? By what authority?


My friend grow up, and post reasonable arguments and FACT, not personal attacks and suppositions.

All my posts relating to this issue have been based on fact and I have tried as far as possible to cite the relevant sources of my facts.

If you cannot do the same and just jump up and down crying "Them dey kill Igbos o!!" then mechionu, and let better people post.

adconline:

Amakaone@

If you can honestly tell me how many times you and your relatives in Naija who don't pay taxes have been hounded by govt agents, then there is  a discrimantory application of  govt laws in shutting down these markets.
Let the justice we all yearn for start from us.

Do we need to be hounded before we pay tax?

I agree with you.

Let the justice we all yearn for start from us.

AMAKAONE:

And how exactly does your ranting and cursing me and my relations change the fact that this is about tax collection and evasion?

And how does that justify your suggesting that they start with "Yoruba" markets and not "Igbo " markets. who designated them as such anyway? You? By what authority?


My friend grow up, and post reasonable arguments and FACT, not personal attacks and suppositions.

All my posts relating to this issue have been based on fact and I have tried as far as possible to cite the relevant sources of my facts.

If you cannot do the same and just jump up and down crying "Them dey kill Igbos o!!" then mechionu, and let better people post.

Anuofia, this shouldn't be about tax collection and evassion, but about PROPER way of tax collection and PROPER means of stoping tax evasion. Do you now get that into that you thick empty skull? Fight it from the root and not fire brigade approach as it's obtained in your useless country nigeria. Which sane society goes about hounding people to pay their taxes instead puting mechanism in place that will make people pay and not have means to evade taxes? Ewu, i ask you again, do you read what i wrote above?
If your fashola and your people don't have anything bad against Igbo, then start to put up proper means of tax collection or else start your dubious means of tax collection with Yoruba businesses and then we can know you are really not against some people. Which facts have you? Useless facts that doesn't say anything about how proper tax should be collected in socities. Are those suposed to be facts? You just get up one day, organise some alayes and give them uniforms, call them one kind tax collector's name and send them to Igbo markets to start collecting taxes or else close their shops? Is that not madness? And you come here to defend such means of tax collection. Ewu awusa.

QuotaSyste:

Anuofia, this shouldn't be about tax collection and evassion, but about PROPER way of tax collection and PROPER means of stoping tax evasion. Do you now get that into that you thick empty skull? Fight it from the root and not fire brigade approach as it's obtained in your useless country nigeria. Which sane society goes about hounding people to pay their taxes instead puting mechanism in place that will make people pay and not have means to evade taxes? Ewu, i ask you again, do you read what i wrote above?
If your fashola and your people don't have anything bad against Igbo, then start to put up proper means of tax collection or else start your dubious means of tax collection with Yoruba businesses and then we can know you are really not against some people. Which facts have you? Useless facts that doesn't say anything about how proper tax should be collected in socities. Are those suposed to be facts? You just get up one day, organise some alayes and give them uniforms, call them one kind tax collector's name and send them to Igbo markets to start collecting taxes or else close their shops? Is that not madness? And you come here to defend such means of tax collection. Ewu awusa.

Ok I give up. Trying to have a normal discussion with you is clearly not possible. I cannot bring myself down to your level no matter how much you try to goad me.

A few words of advise though before I stop responding to your posts.

Try and get some anger management counseling and when you read, try to read with understanding not just for the sake of reading.

AMAKAONE:

Do we need to be hounded before we pay tax?

I agree with you.

Let the justice we all yearn for start from us.

Have you set up proper means of tax collection and peole didn't pay up their taxes? How do you ask someone that does his business and at the end of the day also calculate the amount he made by himself to pay you taxes? How much do you think he will declare that he made at the end of the day, week and month? Do you think he will declare exactly how much he really made?
Then how much do you want to tax him or her since you don't know exactly how much he actualy made? Since you and your fashola don't know about this, simple go and learn it first from those countries that practice such system and come back to put it place in your own country instead of hounding people in their shops to pay you nonsense tax because of who they are and which ethnic group they belong to. Sorry, it can never work that way. You can give up since you don't have anything positive to say other than to support the illegal houding of citizens in the name of stupid tax collection. This is not 1800. This is 2008, so you either make things work in proper ways or just shut up.

AMAKAONE:

I appreciate that logic and basic deduction are not a skill that all people are endowed with.
Let me try and break it down for you.
I will explain based on the assumption that  the people in the market are self and employed actually[b] want to comply[/b] with the states tax legislation.
The state govt goes on an extensive exercise to tell people that people need to pay their taxes ( market traders included).
The same state govt spend a lot of money liaising with banks for collection, drawing up documents explaining the process etc, which info is made available at all tax offices in Lagos state.
The state government goes on to set up a website where all information relating to tax in Lagos state is published as well as all the necessary forms , info on processes etc is published.
The same state govt then gets into discussion with duly elected representatives of the traders making them aware that their members are not complying with state tax legislation.
This goes on for over a month ( no response from the [b]elected representatives [/b]of the traders).

1) Is Alaba market one business entity or does it house more than one business entity? I ask this because businesses usually register for business licenses individually and so are not bundle together with others come tax time.

2) Does a union rep really matter when it comes to individual business taxation process?

3) Are you also assuming that 100% of the store owners/businesses were behind on taxes?

AMAKAONE:

While these negotiations are going on the state govt continues with its tax compliance mobilization campaign, and the elected representatives start collecting monies from their members but fail to make the necessary payments to the state.
On a certain date the state decides realises that these people are not willing to comply despite all these efforts that we have made.

These people, meaning individual businesses housed in Alaba market. Did the government contact the “Individual” businesses or is it that government contacted only the ‘elected representatives’ in this case?

AMAKAONE:

A week or so later the state agencies move into the market and shut the market down.
Now can you please explain to me why the state should be held accountable and the taxpayers not?
What efforts have these taxpayers made to be compliant given all the avenues that the sate has made available to them?
I will be really interested in your response.

1) Why shut down a whole market and not individual businesses in the market that are behind in taxes? Is this a legal move by the state governor or simply government taking the law into its hands?

2) Tax evasion is not new to Lagos and is not really the problem here, however, government is always supposed to approach this legally, no matter what or who is involved.

Kobojunkie:

1) Is Alaba market one business entity or does it house more than one business entity? I ask this because businesses usually register for business licenses individually and so are not bundle together with others come tax time.

2) Does a union rep really matter when it comes to individual business taxation process?

3) Are you also assuming that 100% of the store owners/businesses were behind on taxes?

These people, meaning individual businesses housed in Alaba market. Did the government contact the “Individual” businesses or is it that government contacted only the ‘elected representatives’ in this case?

1) Why shut down a whole market and not individual businesses in the market that are behind in taxes? Is this a legal move by the state governor or simply government taking the law into its hands?

2) Tax evasion is not new to Lagos and is not really the problem here, however, government is always supposed to approach this legally, no matter what or who is involved.

Before I respond to your questions, please enlighten me, what is your understanding of the term duly elected representatives

It seems to me we do not understand this the same way?
my understanding : a person or persons chosen by a group to act for or represent the group

AMAKAONE:

Before I respond to your questions, please enlighten me, what is your understanding of the term duly elected representatives

It seems to me we do not understand this the same way?
my understanding : a person or persons chosen by a group to act for or represent the group

I understand what you mean there but my question still stands. Here is an example, We have unions and these unions consist of individuals/ businesses, when it comes to paying taxes, does the IRS go to the unions or contacts each tax payer individually to get that fee paid? People have tax ids as individuals/businesses. so why was this decision based on the response from the "duly elected representatives" and not on the individual business entities paying or not paying their taxes?

Kobojunkie:

I understand what you mean there but my question still stands. Here is an example, We have unions and these unions consist of individuals/ businesses, when it comes to paying taxes, does the IRS go to the unions or contacts each tax payer individually to get that fee paid? People have tax ids as individuals/businesses. so why was this decision based on the response from the "duly elected representatives" and not on the individual business entities paying or not paying their taxes?

OK, I think we are speaking past each other here.
Let me try and explain myself better ( strictly as relates to elected representation)
Bigger picture scenario.

All Americans hold American citizenship in their individual capacities and  they all have their individual passports, SSN's etc. and they all have theiro wn mortgages and car notes and debts and what have you.

1. George bush is elected as President of the United states by the majority of Americans and was therefore[b] accepted as American President by the Americans themselves and the world at large. along with the related powers and authority that go with this position[/b]

2. Having been elected as a Republican President (with his obvious Republican policy and agenda) he goes out into the world and not only makes public these agendas but acts on these ( along with his cabinet, representatives,  whatever name they go by).

4.The people who are engaging with Bush at a global level , given the understanding of the powers vested in Bush and his administration ( tony Blair et al) jump on the Bush bandwagon and support him in pushing his agenda.

5. he continues to enter into agreements with other governments on behalf of individual Americans, continues to send hundreds of thousands of their kids to Iraq and Afghanistan to fight wars that his administration by virtue of the powers given to him by the American electorate believe is the right way to go.

6. He refuses to sign the Kyoto Protocol because hell he and his administration believe that is not what is best for Americans , the hell with the planet degrading because if Greenhouse gases and the like, American interests come first abi?


Only a few policy decisions and agreements he and his administration make on behalf of the Americans.

Who is accountable for the decisions that Bush and his administration make on behalf of the American public and the repercussions of those decisions and actions? ?

Is it Bush as an individual? Is it all the people of the South where bush comes from? or is it the people who chose Bush to speak and act for them?

Does the rest of the world, maybe not agreeing with what he believes to be his mandate to be, raises up a stinker and say, how dare you do this? Have you consulted with each individual American passport holder, has every American with an SSN, tax number yadi yah authorised you to do what you are doing?

Yes they have, they elected him and his party as their representatives to the world and what they do and say is to the world American policy.


Do you now see what I understand [b]Elected Representation [/b]to be?

When you elect a representative to act on your behalf, you relinquish certain individual rights to them.

When they go out and act on your behalf and don't do what you believed when electing them they would be doing for you, do you turn and blame the people who are interacting with them and taking them on good faith that they are your representatives and have been authorised by you to speak and act for you?


I am interested in your thoughts

AMAKAONE:

Before I respond to your questions, please enlighten me, what is your understanding of the term duly elected representatives

It seems to me we do not understand this the same way?

You don't seem to know anything about tax collection, yet you are here talking with authority and supporting government dubious ways of tax collection.  All you know is that government went with microphones all over the town asking people to pay their taxes, yet people doesn't want to heed to this and later government started closing their shops/businesses, so they shouldn't complain. And tomorrow, you will want me to know the name of the university in nigeria that you graduated from. After all you can write in english, there for your opinion about tax collection matters.

Which govt. in this age and civilization uses such means archaic means to collect taxes? Going around media houses, making advertisements asking people to pay tax? is that how it's been done in responsible countries which you will be quick to tell people that your nigeria is one of those? How much do you want shop A and shop B owners to pay as their monthly income tax since you don't know exactly how much they are making? Fixed rate?

Listen attentively, in serious countries, before owning any business/shop, big or small, you MUST (by law) have to be registered so the state must know that your business/shop exists. There are departments created to search for and bring to justice any unregistered business and the penalty is severe because that is where tax evasion starts from. Registering your business doesn't cost much, so why face the law with severe penalty when you can afford business registration fee?

After that, you must have your accountancy firm that does your everyday business account/calculation for you. All the sales receipts from your sales machine must be submitted to your accountancy office everyday or week. There are so many accountancy offices as a result of this system in serious countries, there by creating jobs for accounting graduates. The bigger an accountancy firm is goes to show how much businesses they do their accounts.

In serious countries, you don't have the right (it's against the law) to calculate and account for your everyday sales, otherwise you must cheat and not declare exactly how much you made on each day, that is human nature. By law, you do the sales, but someone else must account for you on behalf of the government. That is the job of accountancy offices.

Now your accountancy office after doing your calculation through the sales receipts from your sales machine submitted by your shop to them will submit how much you made in a month to the IRS which will in turn calculate how much % of the money should go to the state as tax base on tax % laws on small and big income earners/businesses.

Now who know how much shop A and shop B made that places them either in small or big income earners? It's those accountancy offices, not the shop A or shop B owners because left for them, both will always declare that they made less so they can pay less as taxes. Do you get how easy it is. This way, there will be no room for either shop A nor shop B to evade tax. This rule applies to small and big businesses.

Also, there will be no room nor need for your fashola to go on newspapers and TV houses asking people to pay tax which he is not ashamed of doing in this age and civilization, but will be quick to let you know that he is a lawyer? A lawyer that doesn't know how taxes are collected by proper means. Who will pay in such circumstance? is that not "illiteratic" (allow me to use this word) way of doing things? And you are here to support a government that goes on TV and newspapers asking people to pay tax and you are not ashamed of yourself. Next time they will use town criers. Nonsense.

Why does Fashola have to start his idiotic tax policies with computer village? simple answer weakest in the political chain and most likely to cave in on any shake down. As for folks saying pay up your taxes and hold the government accountable to every dime - it sounds like an American rhetoric- How could this work in Lagos? If you cannot hold the govt account on about $500 million it generates monthly from FG and local revenues how can you hold the govt accountable on 10k it collects from these traders?

I need an answer now.

@QuotaSyste

I have already said I am no longer interested in any dialogue with you and I do not wish to enter into a personal back and forth with you notwithstanding your opinion of me as a person.

If you wish to continue to post your opinions on the issue being discussed you have every right to do so, but please I ask you do not quote me in your responses. Thank you