If anyone believes the op is wrong on his non-belief in trinity. Let him/ she /them make corrections on the questions asked . Stating from question 1.

Pls in answering those questions , endeavor to give ur own explanation on the scriptures quoted in relation to the question.

dolphinheart:


So are you saying the trinity doctrine is false? Or are you trying to tell us you have ur own form or type of trinity ?

Dnt wanna derail the thread

I haven't been talking about the trinity as I said before, I have been talking about Jesus being God which is the title of this thread.
Jesus was God - the Word, and when He became man, He became the Son of God. Flesh is not God, God was in Him as we can have God within us.
The Word never stopped being God, the Holy Spirit was in Jesus but is everywhere else also, filling the universe.
I believe the Word is the Holy Spirit.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

johnw74:


I haven't been talking about the trinity as I said before, I have been talking about Jesus being God which is the title of this thread.
Jesus was God - the Word, and when He became man, He became the Son of God. Flesh is not God, God was in Him as we can have God within us.
The Word never stopped being God, the Holy Spirit was in Jesus but is everywhere else also, filling the universe.
I believe the Word is the Holy Spirit.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Ok sir .
Now I'm asking, do you believe in trinity ?
If yes , what's the concept behind your believe?

dolphinheart:


Ok sir .
Now I'm asking, do you believe in trinity ?
If yes , what's the concept behind your believe?

I don't know for sure about the trinity doctrine and that is why I haven't been posting on it.

I believe God is one God, and I believe He could be three persons in one God as well.

Can God stop being God? when the Word became Jesus He did not stop being God, but He humbled Himself taking on flesh, no longer being in the form of God, that is why He became lower than the Father and that is why all those verses in the OP are true about, not God, but the Son of God.
Things in Heaven are not the same as things on Earth, I believe Jesus is God and also the son of God when He became flesh, one of us.
He lowered Himself, that is why the Father was greater, for before that they were equal.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Isaiah said Jesus is the Holy Spirit (Counsellor) and Father.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Jesus said the Father, He and the Holy Ghost have the same name.
Mat_28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

johnw74:


I don't know for sure about the trinity doctrine and that is why I haven't been posting on it.

I believe God is one God, and I believe He could be three persons in one God as well.

Can God stop being God? when the Word became Jesus He did not stop being God, but He humbled Himself taking on flesh, no longer being in the form of God, that is why He became lower than the Father and that is why all those verses in the OP are true about, not God, but the Son of God.
Things in Heaven are not the same as things on Earth, I believe Jesus is God and also the son of God when He became flesh, one of us.
He lowered Himself, that is why the Father was greater, for before that they were equal.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Isaiah said Jesus is the Holy Spirit (Counsellor) and Father.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Jesus said the Father, He and the Holy Ghost have the same name.
Mat_28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Wow! Interesting!
You believe in what you are not sure about? I mean in trinity? . Cus trinity can be said to be 3 persons in 1 God.

Now pls can u answer the following questions

1. Is jesus the same person as the father?

2. Is jesus of equal authority to the father when he went back to heaven after leaving earth ?

3. God cannot stop being God abi, can God die and go to hell?

4. Jesus, father, holy spirit has same name, pls what is that name.

dolphinheart, I am now certain that Jesus is God, thanks, even though that is not what you wanted.

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross Philippians 2:8.

johnw74:
dolphinheart, I am now certain that Jesus is God, thanks, even though that is not what you wanted.

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross Philippians 2:8.

You are not certain on trinity right?
But you believe trinity that you are not certain on right ?

Pls if you are certain that jesus is God, answer the questions I posted earlier

dolphinheart:


You are not certain on trinity right?
But you believe trinity that you are not certain on right ?

Pls if you are certain that jesus is God, answer the questions I posted earlier

Why do you think I'm an authority, I will answer a couple and then you can try and convince others that Jesus is not God. You have failed with me.

1. Jesus is not the same person as the Father, Jesus is the Son. They are the same God.

3. God cannot die and go to hell, but a flesh and blood body can.

johnw74:


Why do you think I'm an authority, I will answer a couple and then you can try and convince others that Jesus is not God. You have failed with me.

1. Jesus is not the same person as the Father, Jesus is the Son. They are the same God.

3. God cannot die and go to hell, but a flesh and blood body can.

Sir, I dnt understand what u meant by the words "why do you think I'm an authority"

What I know is that you said you believe something and on asking questions based on that believe, so as to understand ur believe better.

By the way, what happened to question 2 and 4 ?

Merry Christmas

dolphinheart:


You are not certain on trinity right?
But you believe trinity that you are not certain on right ?

Wow! Interesting!
You believe in what you are not sure about?

Nothing can be gained from a discussion with you when you keep misquoting me.

I believe God is one God, and I believe He could be three persons in one God as well.

johnw74:


Nothing can be gained from a discussion with you when you keep misquoting me.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood you, it just that word "could" can be understood as "not sure" when trying to understand ur statement.
Sir , what of question 2 and 4

dolphinheart:


I'm sorry if I misunderstood you, it just that word "could" can be understood as "not sure" when trying to understand ur statement.
Sir , what of question 2 and 4

Sir, I dnt understand what u meant by the words "why do you think I'm an authority"

You say you don't know what authority means, and yet you use the word yourself.

2. Is jesus of equal authority to the father when he went back to heaven after leaving earth ?

4. Jesus, father, holy spirit has same name, pls what is that name.

Do you know the answer to those two questions?
will you tell us?
That would save me time searching for the verses.

johnw74:



You say you don't know what authority means, and yet you use the word yourself.




Do you know the answer to those two questions?
will you tell us?
That would save me time searching for the verses.

I'm not a scholar in English language , so sometimes I tend to misunderstand some sentences, so I do appologise , I also yet to ask about words used in sentence so as to understand the person using the words better.
When the word "could" is attached to a statement, I tend to believe the person who used the word is not sure of the facts attached to the word. If I'm wrong , pls correct me.

On the issue of the word authority, I said I dnt understand the whole sentence, not the word authority.

Ill wait till you tell me ur view on questions 2 and 4. The questions came about due to a need to better understand ur beliefs.

dolphinheart:


I'm not a scholar in English language , so sometimes I tend to misunderstand some sentences, so I do appologise , I also yet to ask about words used in sentence so as to understand the person using the words better.
When the word "could" is attached to a statement, I tend to believe the person who used the word is not sure of the facts attached to the word. If I'm wrong , pls correct me.

Could means: might, may. You can always look up the meaning of a word on a online dictionary.

On the issue of the word authority, I said I dnt understand the whole sentence, not the word authority.

The sentence means you ask me questions as if I should know all the answers.
for example:

Ill wait till you tell me ur view on questions 2 and 4. The questions came about due to a need to better understand ur beliefs.

And why don't you answer my questions.

Do you know the answer to those two questions?
will you tell us?
That would save me time searching for the verses.

When the Word became flesh, He became under the Father which is easy to understand, as in the OP verses.
But He didn't stop being God, how could God stop being God?

The following scriptures make it plain that Jesus is God.


Matthew 1:23 - “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”

Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 43:10,11 - “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior.”
Revelation 1:17-18; Revelation 2:8 - (Jesus is the First and the Last)

Isaiah 44:6 - (God is the Redeemer)
2 Peter 1:1 (Jesus is the Redeemer) - “To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ”

Isaiah 44:24 - (God created the world by His self alone)
John 1:3; Colossians 1:16 - (Jesus made all things)

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,

John 5:17,18 - “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.” Therefore the Jews sought to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

John 5:23 - that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

John 8:24 - “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM He, you will die in your sins.”

John 8:58 - Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

John 10:30-33 - Jesus answered them, “I and My Father are one.” Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

John 14:6-7 - Jesus said to him, “I AM the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”

John 14:9-11 - Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?”

John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Acts 4:12 - “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

Acts 20:28 - (God purchased us with His own blood)
Revelation 1:5,6; Revelation 5:8-9 - (Jesus' blood purchased us)

Philippians 2:5-7 - Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bond-servant, and coming in the likeness of men.

1 Timothy 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

Titus 2:13 - looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ

Hebrews 1:8,9 - But to the Son He (God) says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

2 John 1:7 - For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Revelation 1:8 - “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Revelation 22:13 - “I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”... 22:16 - “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.”


****************************************************


Hebrews 2:17,18 - “Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.”
Hebrews 4:15,16 - “For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.”
1 Peter 2:24 - “who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we having died to sins, might live for righteousness - by whose stripes you were healed.”

He went from sovereignty to shame and from deity to death? Why!? For you.
John 15:13 - “Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends.”
Romans 5:8 - “But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”

johnw74:
When the Word became flesh, He became under the Father which is easy to understand, as in the OP verses.
But He didn't stop being God, how could God stop being God?

The following scriptures make it plain that Jesus is God.


Matthew 1:23 - “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”

Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 43:10,11 - “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior.”
Revelation 1:17-18; Revelation 2:8 - (Jesus is the First and the Last)

Isaiah 44:6 - (God is the Redeemer)
2 Peter 1:1 (Jesus is the Redeemer) - “To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ”

Isaiah 44:24 - (God created the world by His self alone)
John 1:3; Colossians 1:16 - (Jesus made all things)

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,

John 5:17,18 - “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.” Therefore the Jews sought to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

John 5:23 - that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

John 8:24 - “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM He, you will die in your sins.”

John 8:58 - Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

John 10:30-33 - Jesus answered them, “I and My Father are one.” Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

John 14:6-7 - Jesus said to him, “I AM the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”

John 14:9-11 - Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?”

John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Acts 4:12 - “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

Acts 20:28 - (God purchased us with His own blood)
Revelation 1:5,6; Revelation 5:8-9 - (Jesus' blood purchased us)

Philippians 2:5-7 - Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bond-servant, and coming in the likeness of men.

1 Timothy 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

Titus 2:13 - looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ

Hebrews 1:8,9 - But to the Son He (God) says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

2 John 1:7 - For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Revelation 1:8 - “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Revelation 22:13 - “I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”... 22:16 - “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.”


****************************************************


Hebrews 2:17,18 - “Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.”
Hebrews 4:15,16 - “For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.”
1 Peter 2:24 - “who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we having died to sins, might live for righteousness - by whose stripes you were healed.”

He went from sovereignty to shame and from deity to death? Why!? For you.
John 15:13 - “Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends.”
Romans 5:8 - “But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”

Would love to discuss all the scriptures u posted , only if you can tell us ur answer to question 2 and 4.

dolphinheart:


Would love to discuss all the scriptures u posted , only if you can tell us ur answer to question 2 and 4.

2. Is jesus of equal authority to the father when he went back to heaven after leaving earth ?

I believe the Father and Son and Holy Spirit are equal, I know they are God, just look at all those verses I posted.

4. Jesus, father, holy spirit has same name, pls what is that name.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

This is saying that the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost are God.
Baptizing in the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost is Baptizing in God.

dolphinheart, do you think God and the Word are equal?
what do you think is the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost?

johnw74:




I believe the Father and Son and Holy Spirit are equal, I know they are God, just look at all those verses I posted.




Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

This is saying that the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost are God.
Baptizing in the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost is Baptizing in God.

dolphinheart, do you think God and the Word are equal?
what do you think is the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost?

Sir, wunt mind to answer the questions you asked. But pls I would love you to answer question 2 and 4 in the right format.

2. Rephrased: jesus was equal to God when he was in heaven . He was not equal to God when he was on earth. Did he regain that equality with God when he went back to heaven? , simple yes or no

4. Rephrased : jesus said we should baptize in their name, what is the name we should baptise in . Why should we baptise in such name.

I'm sorry I'm asking you these questions before answering urs. But when you give me straight answers on the question I asked, ill have a better understanding of ur view and know how to reply .

dolphinheart:
Sir, wunt mind to answer the questions you asked. But pls I would love you to answer question 2 and 4 in the right format.

2. Rephrased: jesus was equal to God when he was in heaven . He was not equal to God when he was on earth. Did he regain that equality with God when he went back to heaven? , simple yes or no

The issue I am talking about is whether God and the Word - Jesus are God, and I and others have posted many verses showing that they are. The issue for me is not and has not been whether the father is superior to the Son, Fathers usually are.

4. Rephrased : Jesus said we should baptize in their name, what is the name we should baptise in . Why should we baptise in such name.

I posted that verse along with others showing that the father the Son and the Holy Ghost are God.
Mat_28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
For the third time you tell me the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost.


I'm sorry I'm asking you these questions before answering urs. But when you give me straight answers on the question I asked, ill have a better understanding of ur view and know how to reply .

For Judgement Jesus came into this world that those who see may become blind and those who are blind may see. @OP U may ask "Am i also blind?" So the Lord says to u "If u were blind u will have no guilt but now dat u say i see ur guilt remains". Jesus says learn from me if u want to know d Truth about who Jesus is u must have the Holy Spirit in you for who knows the thought of a man except his spirit. Empty ur heart and learn from the King of kings,Lord of lords,The I AM WHO I AM, the HE, the God of Abraham,Isaac nd Jacob Jesus Christ the Saviour,who is forever blessed.Amen.

johnw74:
dolphinheart:
Sir, wunt mind to answer the questions you asked. But pls I would love you to answer question 2 and 4 in the right format.

2. Rephrased: jesus was equal to God when he was in heaven . He was not equal to God when he was on earth. Did he regain that equality with God when he went back to heaven? , simple yes or no

The issue I am talking about is whether God and the Word - Jesus are God, and I and others have posted many verses showing that they are. The issue for me is not and has not been whether the father is superior to the Son, Fathers usually are.

4. Rephrased : Jesus said we should baptize in their name, what is the name we should baptise in . Why should we baptise in such name.

I posted that verse along with others showing that the father the Son and the Holy Ghost are God.
Mat_28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
For the third time you tell me the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost.


I'm sorry I'm asking you these questions before answering urs. But when you give me straight answers on the question I asked, ill have a better understanding of ur view and know how to reply .

You see now, if I did not ask the questions, we might have been arguing on points that we might have the same beliefs on.

Now I thing that this is ur oppinion
1. Jesus is God , but not almighty God and he is not the same as the rather and not equal to the father.
2. Father is God and almighty God
3. Holy spirit is God but not almighty God.
4. That the true God mentioned in the bible is just one singular person , but a collection of three different persons with different authorities which make up one God.

If my assumptions of ur view are true, let me know so that I can then reply on the scriptures u quoted

dolphinheart:


You see now, if I did not ask the questions, we might have been arguing on points that we might have the same beliefs on.

Now I thing that this is ur oppinion
1. Jesus is God , but not almighty God and he is not the same as the rather and not equal to the father.
2. Father is God and almighty God
3. Holy spirit is God but not almighty God.
4. That the true God mentioned in the bible is just one singular person , but a collection of three different persons with different authorities which make up one God.

If my assumptions of ur view are true, let me know so that I can then reply on the scriptures u quoted

dolphinheart, you go around and around in circles, you keep listing questions for me to answer while not answering even one of my questions.
You must think you are the teacher and others are your students.
Goodbye teacher.

Its such a shame that no trinitarian tried to answer my questions, at least serially.

Instead of quoting those misapplied scriptures, first answer the questions and explain the scriptural reference.

Then why did he spend an entire life crying out unto his Father in Heaven, where one
else (of whom his Father saith, "With him I speak face to face, clearly, and not in dark speech;
and he beholds the form of The LORD" saith unto the Heavens:

"GIVE EAR, O Heavens, and I WILL SPEAK."

Hear, O Masculinism: The LORD our God, The LORD is GOD.

Hast thou indeed slaughtered his father, and since when; that someone may then say of him,

"What remains of his clan, that he should not even give birth?"

And hast thou truly then indeed done thy worst?

"Vengeance is Mine," saith The LORD;
and, by the grace of GOD,
by my hands.

- Ikoro Iyineleda.

When examined in the light of the bible, the trinity dogma falls totally flat.

Little wonder that in history, some notable men who were interested in truth spoke against the trinity even at the risk of their lives. I do recall the words of sir isaac Newton, the famous scientist: "the trinity is a third century invention."