vooks:
Bro,
This is what you get when you arm spiritual neanderthals with scriptures

1.X,Y and Z are church/Grace-age jargon.
2. X,Y,Z are not found in A,B,C books
3. A,B,C books are not for church-age

The same minds who swear Antichrist a totally ALIEN name in Revelation is the MAIN bad guy there.

And here is the worst bit; they are as dishonest as hell; they will argue from silence when it serves them and cling to 'literal' interpretation of Revelation and Prophecy ONLY when it advances their Dispensationalism BS

My broda, with these you dont even have time to define foolishness, you'd waste a lot of time doing so. Instead, just watch Foolishnes Incarnate
U

I have not seen this kind of foolishness before.

Hehehehe,

you came with the idea of those "called", i reference the scripture that say many are called few are chosen and you came back throwing pauline scriptures around.
Let us take a look!

shdemidemi:


Romans 8

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified..


See how God did the work from foreknowledge to glorification of the Saint according to this passage. No part of this process was played by man's ability but God's.

you are argueing against your own strawman.
I never said that man has the ability to justify or sanctity or glorify himself. I NEVER SAID THAT.

But since you brought up scriptures about those who God foreknew and called, i'll show you the people who God first foreknew.



Roman 11

I ask, then, has God rejected his
people? By no means! For I myself
am an Israelite, a descendant of
Abraham, 1 a member of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah,
how he appeals to God against Israel?
3 l “Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have demolished your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life.”
4 But what is God's reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.



This is what happened to the first people who God foreknew, NOT ALL OF THEM WERE SAVED, ONLY A REMNANT WAS SAVED.

So i'm also telling you, not all who he foreknew will be saved, not all who are called are chosen.

How was your day?

italo:

Yes..

I can definitely give you verses that state clearly how christians got the 'saint' status. By these works that you have listed, can you help with a part of scripture that says you become a saint by them?

italo:

He did baptize some. And the fact that he didn't baptize the rest doesn't mean they weren't baptized by another person. Jesus asked that all peoples should be baptized. The Corinthians knew this, unlike you who doesn't know...

He listed the few he baptised and said emphatically that Jesus did not send him to come and baptise but to preach the gospel. Where exactly did you get the idea that the corinth church got baptised by someone else?

italo:


He said it about the 12, not Judas specifically. Judas didn't cooperate with that plan and was replaced. No need for another example..

Cooperate!!

Was Judas part of the twelve when Christ said it?

italo:


Paul was speaking to Christians. He said they stood by faith. Stop fooling yourself.


Both.

If you don't understand the setting, look closer. Paul stopped speaking about Christians in chapter 8, he poke about Israele through chapter 9, 10 and 11 and returned to the church at 12.

Look closer, you might just see.

italo:

I'm showing you how your heresy is contradicting John and you're asking me an unrelated question to evade the issue.

Did he Paul say it isn't by works? Its a simple question, don't be shy.

italo:

John said he who lacks love for brother cannot be saved. He who does not keep God's commandments cannot be saved. You're contradicting him.

hmm, really!!! Did he really say that, you understand you can't add to the written word?

Is John the Apostle God appointed to me, me being a Gentile?

italo:
From my head. Why should I regard your bible dictionary?

Get yourself a study material, you goofed with the definition, you don't want to embarass yourself beyond NL, do you?

Ubenedictus:
Hehehehe,

you came with the idea of those "called", i reference the scripture that say many are called few are chosen and you came back throwing pauline scriptures around.
Let us take a look!



you are argueing against your own strawman.
I never said that man has the ability to justify or sanctity or glorify himself. I NEVER SAID THAT.

But since you brought up scriptures about those who God foreknew and called, i'll show you the people who God first foreknew.



Roman 11

I ask, then, has God rejected his
people? By no means! For I myself
am an Israelite, a descendant of
Abraham, 1 a member of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah,
how he appeals to God against Israel?
3 l “Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have demolished your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life.”
4 But what is God's reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.



This is what happened to the first people who God foreknew, NOT ALL OF THEM WERE SAVED, ONLY A REMNANT WAS SAVED.

So i'm also telling you, not all who he foreknew will be saved, not all who are called are chosen.

How was your day?

He chose some by Grace--- Free gift of salvation

The Jewish nation botched it but they were never justified. However, God still have them in His plan according to promise. The promise to the churh is better, way better than the promise to the nation of Israel. The bible says they have only stumbled, they will rise as a nation when the fullness of Gentile
Romans 11:25
I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in

So when it comes to God's promise to the elect/the church, it is sealed. But the Gentile world as a whole is getting to a place where Israel was when they crucified their king. Paul was sending a message to the Gentile world and not to the saved christians.

For how long are you going to wallow in that garbage of mutilating scriptures?
Was 2 Peter written for Jews or Gentiles?

shdemidemi:

Is John the Apostle God appointed to me, me being a Gentile?

Simple question.

shdemidemi:


Are you of the flesh or of the spirit?

i am of the spirit.

Now the interesting question.

Is it posible for one in the spirit to do the work of the flesh?

In other words, can the justified sin?

Ubenedictus:
Simple question.


i am of the spirit.

Now the interesting question.

Is it posible for one in the spirit to do the work of the flesh?

In other words, can the justified sin?

Very possible, but that don't make them dead to the spirit, does it?.As one of the spirit you are motivated by things of the spirit just as one in the flesh is with things of the flesh. One in the flesh will hardly feel a sense of guilt while one of spirit will always be pricked by what they know about the Word.

shdemidemi:


Did he Paul say it isn't by works? Its a simple question, don't be shy.

He said so. He was talking to about works of the law which was in use before they came to faith. Salvation is not a one time thing. After coming to faith, one must do good works as the very next verse highlights.

So I believe Paul there. Do you believe Paul when he says Christians (Rom 11:20) can be cut off if they dont continue in kindness (Rom11:22)?

shdemidemi:
hmm, really!!! Did he really say that, you understand you can't add to the written word?

Yes. He said who hates his brother is a murderer and murderers cannot have eternal life. He also said you cant say you love God and not love brother. You contradict these things.

You say a Christian can make heaven even if he hates brother.

shdemidemi:
Is John the Apostle God appointed to me, me being a Gentile?

Yes. Jesus sent all the apostles to teach all nations. Yes or no. So you are contradicting John because you didn't know he was sent to you?

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

shdemidemi:
Get yourself a study material, you goofed with the definition, you don't want to embarass yourself beyond NL, do you?

Show me how darkness means only ignorance, not evil too.

shdemidemi:


I can definitely give you verses that state clearly how christians got the 'saint' status. By these works that you have listed, can you help with a part of scripture that says you become a saint by them?

Ephesians 5:3-4
But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.

Rev 13:10 If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

shdemidemi:
He listed the few he baptised and said emphatically that Jesus did not send him to come and baptise but to preach the gospel. Where exactly did you get the idea that the corinth church got baptised by someone else?

Then why did he baptize anyone at all?

Christ told his apostles to baptize all nations, including Corinthians. Are you saying these men disobeyed Christ?

shdemidemi:
Cooperate!!

Was Judas part of the twelve when Christ said it?

Yes. But he separated himself from Jesus - full of grace and truth.

shdemidemi:
If you don't understand the setting, look closer. Paul stopped speaking about Christians in chapter 8, he poke about Israele through chapter 9, 10 and 11 and returned to the church at 12.

Look closer, you might just see.

In Rom11:20, Paul said: "They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand only through faith.." Those are not unbelievers, but Christians.

You're lying shamelessly.

shdemidemi:


He chose some by Grace--- Free gift of salvation

The Jewish nation botched it but they were never justified. However, God still have them in His plan according to promise. The promise to the churh is better, way better than the promise to the nation of Israel. The bible says they have only stumbled, they will rise as a nation when the fullness of Gentile
Romans 11:25
I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in

So when it comes to God's promise to the elect/the church, it is sealed. But the Gentile world as a whole is getting to a place where Israel was when they crucified their king. Paul was sending a message to the Gentile world and not to the saved christians.

The Bible says Abraham was justified.

Who should we believe, the Bible or a confused heretic?

shdemidemi:


Very possible, but that don't make them dead to the spirit, does it?.As one of the spirit you are motivated by things of the spirit just as one in the flesh is with things of the flesh. One in the flesh will hardly feel a sense of guilt while one of spirit will always be pricked by what they know about the Word.

1John5:16: "There is sin that leads to death."

Keep fooling yourself.

italo:


1John5:16: "There is sin that leads to death."

Keep fooling yourself.

You don't take time to study, do you? Read properly to see what the bible is saying, don't gloss over when reading.

Asides from the fact that the book does not say there is a sin that leads a Christian to hell, you have to come to a realisation of neo-judaism Christianity and outright Christianity.

italo:


The Bible says Abraham was justified.

Who should we believe, the Bible or a confused heretic?

The entire bible did not say that, a section did say that and this section happen to be the temple worshipper, law observing, Jewish tradition adherent Section of the bible. Moving forward, a man came with a gospel that does not add works (in any form or shape) to the finished work of Christ.

Philipians 3:3
For we who worship by the Spirit of God are the ones who are truly circumcised. We rely on what Christ Jesus has done for us. We put no confidence in human effort,

No human effort- we have no confidence in what we can achieve ourselves in the flesh.

italo:


Ephesians 5:3-4
But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.

Rev 13:10 If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

None of these quotes say anything about working to become a saint rather they talk about what is expected of a saint. Where did you get the idea the works you claim initially add to qualify the corinthians as Saint?

If you can't find one passage in the bible that supports your statement, don't you think your idea to what is requisite to qualify as Saint might just be wrong?

italo:

Then why did he baptize anyone at all?

Christ told his apostles to baptize all nations, including Corinthians. Are you saying these men disobeyed Christ?

Can you not see the progressive nature of events as time went on! At one point Paul baptised people himself with water and he could count how many people he did that with. A time came when he declared, this isn't what Christ is saying I should do now. He says I should preach the gospel. The water baptism was obviously from the time of John, but the baptism that comes by the gospel isn't with water but by the Holy Spirit.

italo:

Yes. But he separated himself from Jesus - full of grace and truth.

Did Jesus get his pronouncement about Judas wrong?

Does Jesus really see beyond the present?

italo:

In Rom11:20, Paul said: "They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand only through faith.." Those are not unbelievers, but Christians.

You're lying shamelessly.

Who are the 'you' in the verse, could it be christians or the entire Gentile nation?

When the Jews were broken off, was it because of the disobedience of the few disciples of Christ or the entire Jewish nation?

How comes this Darbynite can't answer such a simple question?


Romans 11:17-21 King James Version (KJV)
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

If the addressee of Romans 11 are not the Christians in Rome, who are they?
Who from verse17 was grafted and partakes of the root and fatness?
Who is being charged in verse 18 against boasting?
Whose conclusion is Paul preempting in v19?
Who in verse 20 'standeth by faith'?
And who is being warned in verse 21 lest God cuts him off?

The Holy Ghost has ready answers to these questions;

Romans 1:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

He was writing to the church in Rome but a deranged Dispensationalist mind resists the Holy Ghost and claims otherwise

cc ayoku777,esere826,shdemidemi

italo:

In Rom11:20, Paul said: "They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand only through faith.." Those are not unbelievers, but Christians.

You're lying shamelessly.

shdemidemi:

If you don't understand the setting, look closer. Paul stopped speaking about Christians in chapter 8, he poke about Israele through chapter 9, 10 and 11 and returned to the church at 12.

Look closer, you might just see.

shdemidemi ; vooks ; italo

The gentiles were never grafted into Christ as a nation. Only Israel was ever grafted into God as a nation, and after they rejected Christ, they were cut of as a nation and salvation now became a personal thing for both jews and gentiles.

As it is now as a jew, if you believe in Christ you will be grafted in; and if your mother or brother doesn't believe they won't be grafted in. There's no more national salvation for the jews since they rejected Christ.

But for the gentiles, they were NEVER grafted into Christ as a nation, salvation was ALWAYS a personal and individual thing for the gentiles.

God didn't graft in Ephesus or Corinth or Galatia or Athens or Anthioch or Rome. No, he grafted in Cornelius, Tunde, Hamzat and Nkechi, when they believed. Salvation was always personal for the gentiles from the word go, NEVER NATIONAL.

So when Paul was talking about the gentiles being cut off if they go into unbelief like the Jews, it was being cut individually.

The gentile who believes in Christ and then doesn't continue in that faith will be cut off.

Paul wasn't talking to national gentiles or gentiles as a nation. Gentiles were NEVER grafted into Christ nationally and they can't be cut of as a nation. They could only be cut off as they were grafted in -personally and individually.

So not continuing in the faith is a clear and present possibility and being cut off is a clear and present consequence of that possibilty.

Thank you Ayoku777
I tend to agree with you on most points
Romans 11:17-21 King James Version (KJV)
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

I believe this verse shows that Israel as a nation was not cut off but SOME meaning those who rejected God's plan of salvation in Christ.


Romans 11:1King James Version (KJV)
11 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
I believe this is the thrust of verse 1; evidence of few Jewish believers means Israel was not cut off entirely

ayoku777:
shdemidemi ; vooks ; italo

Bidam:
Yes. It is sad that these folks shouting calvinism!calvinism!! still don't get it that our acceptance by the Father has already been determined at the cross. Therefore, it is not based on how well we have done or how we are doing now.

Do you follow Rick Joyner on Facebook?

vooks:
Thank you Ayoku777
I tend to agree with you on most points
Romans 11:17-21 King James Version (KJV)
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

I believe this verse shows that Israel as a nation was not cut off but SOME meaning those who rejected God's plan of salvation in Christ.


Romans 11:1King James Version (KJV)
11 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
I believe this is the thrust of verse 1; evidence of few Jewish believers means Israel was not cut off entirely

You're right in that context

@ayoku

Please give one reason within that chapter that made you conclude Paul wasn't speaking to the entire Gentile world?

shdemidemi:
@ayoku

Please give one reason within that chapter that made you conclude Paul wasn't speaking to the entire Gentile world?

Because the entire gentile world are not grafted into Christ, only gentiles who believe in Christ -the same way it is for the jews now.

The idea of being cut off only addresses believing gentiles. Unless you believe both believing and unbelieving gentiles have been grafted into Christ

Excellent submission ayoku777

Shdemidemi,
Please give one reason why you insist Romans 9-11 were not addressed to or 'talking about' Christians especially in the light of Rom 11 verses as pointed out by italo and myself

shdemidemi:

If you don't understand the setting, look closer. Paul stopped speaking about Christians in chapter 8, he poke about Israele through chapter 9, 10 and 11 and returned to the church at 12.

Look closer, you might just see.

ayoku777:


Because the entire gentile world are not grafted into Christ, only gentiles who believe in Christ -the same way it is for the jews now.

The idea of being cut off only addresses believing gentiles. Unless you believe both believing and unbelieving gentiles have been grafted into Christ

ayoku777:


Because the entire gentile world are not grafted into Christ, only gentiles who believe in Christ -the same way it is for the jews now.

The idea of being cut off only addresses believing gentiles. Unless you believe both believing and unbelieving gentiles have been grafted into Christ

When the Jews got cut off, a remnant was selected and left attached to the tree e.g Apostle Paul.

If the Gentiles get cut off, do you think Christians will be part of those cut off or will there also be part of the elect?

The entire metaphor refers to a time when God was all about the nation of Israel. After the cut, they no longer hold the same position because God moved to the Gentiles. Gentiles now have the opprtunity to say 'yes' to God to live or say 'No' to die. The same way it was with the Jews all through the Old Testament.
Acts 28
"Therefore I want you to know that God's salvation has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will listen!"

Notice how Paul did not say, 'they will believe' but 'they will listen'.

Paul clearly says 'Gentiles' in Romans 11, if you think he meant 'christians', please show us why you think so from the chapter.

shdemidemi:


When the Jews got cut off, a remnant was selected and left attached to the tree e.g Apostle Paul.

If the Gentiles get cut off, do you think Christians will be part of those cut off or will there also be part of the elect?

The entire metaphor refers to a time when God was all about the nation of Israel. After the cut, they no longer hold the same position because God moved to the Gentiles.
Acts 28
"Therefore I want you to know that God's salvation has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will listen!"

Notice how Paul did not say, 'they will believe' but 'they will listen'.

Paul clearly says 'Gentiles' in Romans 11, if you think he meant 'christians', please show us why you think so from the chapter.

The remnant are those among the Jews who believed in Christ, in other words; jews who became christians. Those are the remnant that were not cut off.

You said will christians be among the gentiles cut off? Christians are the only one among the gentiles that are grafted into Christ.

Romans 11v20 -Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and THOU STANDETH BY FAITH.

You see? Unbelieving Jews were broken off and believing gentiles were grafted in.

Or you believe unbelieving gentiles are also standing by faith?

So when He said "otherwise thou also shall be cut off" -he was talking to those "who standeth by faith".

Unbelieving gentiles can't be cut off, they were never grafted. You stand by faith, you can't be grafted without faith

Or unless you believe being grafted into Christ doesn't mean believing in Him, it only means being given the privilege of hearing or 'listening' to the gospel.

Which would imply even unbelieving gentiles are grafted and are partaking of the fatness of the root (Jesus)

shdemidemi:


Paul clearly says 'Gentiles' in Romans 11, if you think he meant 'christians', please show us why you think so from the chapter.

Well, he also said "...and thou standeth by faith."

He was talking to gentiles that stand by faith -and that can only be christian gentiles. Not the general gentile world.

Unbelieving gentiles don't stand by faith. They are not among the grafted.

ayoku777:


Well, he also said "...and thou standeth by faith."

He was talking to gentiles that stand by faith -and that can only be christian gentiles. Not the general gentile world.

Unbelieving gentiles don't stand by faith. They are not among the grafted.

It is not enough to say 'well, he also said ...'. The man clearly mentioned those he was addressing, didn't he?

I also think the most miused word in christendom is the word- 'Faith'.

If you get to this chapter to say christians can be cut off from God, that means Romans 8 which explains the work of the Holy Spirit in us is completely wrong.

Is Paul saying if we boast to the Jews then we lose our salvation as christians.. Is that what the passage is saying?

@Ayoku..

I said earlier that the entire Jewish race- bad or good were all grafted in to God by the promise made to Abraham. This does not exempt a transgressor of the law from being punished or killed. At this time, we see few exceptions where Gentiles become proselytes.

So also, the entire Gentile world- good or bad were also grafted in to God after the Jewish nation stumbled. This also does not mean anyone who fails to accept the gift of the gospel won't face the wrath of God. Now, Jews now need to adopt this present way of being righteous through Jesus and nothing to be saved.

Being grafted does not mean you are a Christian, it means there is an opportunity to be nourished from the source.

shdemidemi:


It is not enough to say 'well, he also said ...'. The man was clear with those he was addresing, wasn't he?

What ayoku777 is saying is, it is clear as daylight Paul HIMSELF identifies his subjects as 'standing in faith' meaning they were believers,believing Gentiles. Is any of that in doubt

I also think the most miused word in christendom is the word- 'Faith'.

But I have never run across the Holy Spirit inspired apostle to the Gentiles misusing it. He meant exactly what he said and said what he meant. What do you think he means by 'thou standest by faith'? Could he be referring to anything else other than a believer?

If you get to this chapter to say christians can be cut off from God, that means Romans 8 which explains the work of the Holy Spirit in us is completely wrong.

When Holy Spirit by the hand of his apostle tells you to take heed lest you be cut off, you better believe it bro. May Dispensationalism,eternal security and other man made garbage bow in Jesus name! But I know too well the crisi of conscience, the feeling that you may be wrong despite all these years

Is Paul saying if we boast to the Jews then we lose our salvation as christians.. Is that what the passage is saying?

No . It is the Holy Spirit saying so. Note though that nowhere is Paul saying if we boast we lose our salvation. He is cautioning against overconfidence in being grafted (sounds like eternal security) seeing the natural branches were cut off.
Romans 11:20-21 (KJV)
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee

shdemidemi:


It is not enough to say 'well, he also said ...'. The man clearly mentioned those he was addressing, didn't he?

I also think the most miused word in christendom is the word- 'Faith'.

If you get to this chapter to say christians can be cut off from God, that means Romans 8 which explains the work of the Holy Spirit in us is completely wrong.

Is Paul saying if we boast to the Jews then we lose our salvation as christians.. Is that what the passage is saying?

Faith might be misused but I don't misuse it. Faith is faith in who Christ is and what He did according to the scriptures. That He is the Messiah the Son of the Living God; and that He dided for our sins and rose for our justification.

This is faith according to the scriptures.

Now, is it the entire gentile world that is standing by this faith? Because it was the gentiles that "standeth by this faith" that Paul was addressing in Romans 11.

Those are the gentiles grafted into Christ; and those are the only gentiles that can be cut off if they don't continue in faith.

As for the issue of Romans 8. It was talking about a believer who sins, not one who stops believing in Christ.

A believer is not cut of from God when he sins, he is cut off when he stops believing. The two scemarios are different.

I think you're not being explicit about your stand. Let me help.

Do you believe the entire gentile world has been grafted into Christ? Or only gentiles who believe in Christ.

Because to be cut off, you need to be grafted first. So if the cutting off is for the entire gentile world, then you mean they are presently grafted into Christ. Christians, muslims, athiest are all grafted into Christ according to you.

But if it is only believing gentiles that are grafted, then it means the warning of being cut off is also to them. Which nullifies the OSAS doctrine.

Remember you've also not given the flipside of the statements we gave in explanation to names not being blotted out.

Those who get 70% in the test will not be removed from the state bursary

OR

Those who pass the training exercise will not be resigned.

Does this statements automatically explain what will happen to those who don't pass?

Do you understand my position here

@Ayoku..

I said earlier that the entire Jewish race- bad or good were all grafted in to God by the promise made to Abraham. This does not exempt a transgressor of the law from being punished or killed. At this time, we see few exceptions where Gentiles become proselytes.

So also, the entire Gentile world- good or bad were also grafted in to God after the Jewish nation stumbled. This also does not mean anyone who fails to accept the gift of the gospel won't face the wrath of God. Now, Jews now need to adopt this present way of being righteous through Jesus and nothing to be saved.

Being grafted does not mean you are a Christian, it means there is an opportunity to be nourished from the source.

shdemidemi:
@Ayoku..

I said earlier that the entire Jewish race- bad or good were all grafted in to God by the promise made to Abraham. This does not exempt a transgressor of the law from being punished or killed. At this time, we see few exceptions where Gentiles become proselytes.

So also, the entire Gentile world- good or bad were also grafted in to God after the Jewish nation stumbled. This also does not mean anyone who fails to accept the gift of the gospel won't face the wrath of God. Now, Jews now need to adopt this present way of being righteous through Jesus and nothing to be saved.

Being grafted does not mean you are a Christian, it means there is an opportunity to be nourished from the source.

The reason every jew, good or bad, were grafted into God under the law was because the condition was simply to be a seed of Abraham after the flesh. A condition met by everyone born a jew.

But to be grafted into Christ now, you need to be a seed of Abraham after the Spirit. Do the entire gentile world meet this condition.
Are athiest and budhists seedo of Abraham after the spirit?

Let me show you another point about how Paul describes those that are grafted to Christ.

Romans 11v16 -For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, SO ARE THE BRANCHES.

Anyone grafted into Christ is imputed with the holiness of the root.

If every unbeliever is grafted as you said, then the entire gentile world is holy.

So NO NO, only believing gentiles are grafted, they are the only ones holy like the branch and the seed of Abraham after the spirit. Not the entire gentile race.

Being grafted does not mean the OPPORTUNITY of being nourished, being grafted is BEING NOURISHED.