davidylan:

LadyT don't be surprised.

Havent you noticed how easy it is for atheists to "ask questions"? Ask them one simple one and they accuse you of "avoiding questions". Where was naijafan all day? Suddenly he appears to give an addendum after the debate is over?

i just noticed this thread today (yesterday, considering that its past midnight here) and decided to take my time to read thru everything before responding.

davidylan:

@ naijafan . . . you DELIBERATELY get me wrong, i don't feel athiests discussing about a "non existent God is vain . . . i feel it is a clear cut example of athiest hypocrisy. In one breath God doesnt exist YET you want to discuss Him? How?

Is it possible to discuss an animal that never existed for example?

i guess you are deliberately getting it all wrong. i've never simply opened my mouth to question religion for no reason. i only respond to pple's statements. assuming you have siblings and you walk in on them one day arguing about the color of unicorns, wouldnt you at least try to make a remark that unicorns dont exist, and as well try to prove it to them. . . if u've got spare time on your hands, that is.

davidylan:

- The most "enlightened" religion to you is buddhism? Well the answer is right there in your write-up . . . "they don't exactly have a god". In essence you measure "enlightenement by whether you have a god or not? Is this your example of "free thinking"?

Not just because they dont have a god. they encourage self examination n discovery.

davidylan:

- You accuse christians of being "quite rigid, non listening" . . . funny. Do YOU as an athiest listen to anything? If you were listening you shld know that science has FAILED WOEFULLY at explaining the creation using the big bang theory.
The average athiest is rigid - you can explain a biblical event from now till tomorrow and provide archeological evidence . . . it wont sway him from his godless beliefs. And you accuse us of non listening?

Like i said . . . sounds a lot like duduspace claiming to have used his "brain".

i never said i agree with the big bang theory. . . did i? dont assume all atheists are scientists. i take the big bang theory with as much salt as i take the biblical creation story. infact, i sometimes consider the biblical creation story better altho it fails to explain how water got into the 'void'. the water on whose surface the spirit of god moved.

one more thing. . . i listen. true, some atheists dont. but you'll agree with me that lots of christians out there havnt for once questioned their beliefs just because they consider it sinful.

@naijafan

any idea where I can get more materials on buddhism? would like to know more about it, I've heard quite a lot but would appreciate any info on how I can get more resources to understand the basic tenets and concepts.

Christianity I know well having been born into it, Judaism I know from the Old Testament, Islam I know to be largely Arabicised Judaism (i.e. Christianity without the New testament and Mohammed bigging up himself as a messanger of God) but I don't know much about these oriental religions.

NB: Just went through the page on wikipedia and it is looking very complex and of course the same old doctrinal differences are springing up again. Anyway, if it makes some people happy it is all good provided they keep it in the realm of "belief". Funny thing is that Buddhist are reported to be between 230 million to 500 million all over the world and that multitude of people are going to burn in Hell fire if we are to beleive David and co with their concept of a God who delights in roasting people like bacon in one huge pit of fire.

@naijafan

Why are you wasting your time with davidylan? Dont you know his style of debate? He continues to reply questions with rhethorical questions when he knows he has no clue or idea of what to say. for example, if you complain that bible fundamentalist disturb you to go to church because the 10 commandments specifically said we should keep the sabbath day holy and you argue that the sabbath is not on a sunday but saturday and you dont see any rational with that commandment. and you site passages in the bible that contradicts such claims to buttress your argument.

Now instead of davidylan debating the essence of the sabbath to christians and why it falls on a sunday, the next thing he would say is "If they disturb you, walk away"! How moronic!

That's how irrational he can be and instead of you wasting your time arguing with an obstinate and fundamentalist christian, you should resort to expletives to knock some senses in his head. I have engaged him before in a religious battle through my former name when i was still naive and trying to understand religious views and tolerance in a very sensible and responsible way devoid of insults and sarcasms, what i derived from him only made me hate christianity more then and i realised he was just a tease and if you pay too much attention to him, you will let him get under your skin and you end up becoming denser than before.

So the best way to debate davidylan is to be armed with sarcasm, expletives and cast iron embarassing biblical verses and watch him shut up and squirm.

If you dont follow these rules, then prepare to feel frustrated by davidylan because he is the master of that and a radical fundamentalist zionist christian and nothing good or sensible can come out from such a caricature!

Adam you are a very bitter person.

You must post as much vernom as you can everytime why?

LadyT:

Adam you are a very bitter person.

You must post as much vernom as you can everytime why?

Bitter lemon, bitter leaf, bitter cola, take your pick, i love everything bitter!

Also freedom of posting. There is no rule against venominous posts especially if it is true and from the bottom of your heart. I dont know how to be a hypocrite or pamper people. I just say it as i think it. Hate me or love me, that's your wahala not mine!

naijafan:

Not just because they don't have a god. they encourage self examination n discovery.

how do you know the bible does not?

Adam Brody:

Bitter lemon, bitter leaf, bitter cola, take your pick, i love everything bitter!

Also freedom of posting. There is no rule against venominous posts especially if it is true and from the bottom of your heart. I don't know how to be a hypocrite or pamper people. I just say it as i think it. Hate me or love me, that's your wahala not mine!

keep envying david dear,i can see u r quite intimidated bt his posts,and d only way to get back at him is thru insults,ride on jare,atleast uve just proved to me dat most atheists r cowards

Hey na who go come explain the tower of babel kwanu

davidylan:

how do you know the bible does not?

wait, i guess that's the only statement i made that you have a problem wit. . you agree with the others ai
ok. how do i know the bible does not. . . well, the bible tells me that self = fleshly desires = sin. i may be missing something, so educate me.

@duduspace
i have a buddhist friend. all the way from secondary school. i was able to read his books. you should be able to check online.
http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/buddhaintro.html
http://www.religioustolerance.org/buddhism.htm

@davidylan
one quick question. why is it that religious peeps are quick to point fingers at the theories of evolution and the big bang when they are in a conversation wit atheists. the older theory of the two is just about 150 years old and atheists sure did exist before then. i would like to be seen as that Agnostic whose arguments are not based on such scientific theories but on certain questions that 'seemingly break' the logic behind organized religion.

After 14 pages, after 2008 years, after 66 books of the bible, after apocalyptic threats, after all said and done - God is not coming down.

davidylan:

- about this issue of being a "freethinker" . . . its been addressed before. There is no such thing as a "freethinker" . . . everyone is influenced by certain circumstances that moulds there thought process. This idea of "free thinking" is as false as duduspace claiming he is an athiest because he "used brain" to question the bible.

And you wonder why people get angry and pour invectives on you? your hasty conclusions can be quite annoying, you continuosly oscillate between moments of brilliance and what I would term close to utter stupidity.

1. I never claimed to be an atheist, you are wrongly assuming that because I dare to question some of your beliefs.
2. Are you inside my brain to know what I'm thinking? how then can you categorically say that what I said was false?
3. "Use your brain" in the context I've used it implies thinking about an issue from a purely logical and impartial point of view.

While I agree with you that people's thinking are influenced by a lot of things (and not just cirumstances that mould their thought process) that does not exclude the concept of free thinking (even though I'm sure your concept of free thinking only narrowly include anything that questions your belief in the Biblical God because I'm sure you are not miffed in any way if anyone says that Allah, Budday, Krishna e.t.c. don't exist).
My concept of free thinking would be an openess to listen to all views, logical and impartial consideration of those views within the limit of your knowledge and accepting the obviously true, rejecting the obviously false and reserving your judgement on the ones you are not sure about.
Of course you can choose to believe what you want about those things you are not sure about but never take them as fact but as probable explanations which may or may not be true.

Chrisbenogor:

After 14 pages, after 2008 years, after 66 books of the bible, after apocalyptic threats, after all said and done - God is not coming down.

Maybe, just maybe he is waiting for us to come up instead?

but our scientist have tried and built planes to go up but we didn't see him, they tried again and  built space shuttle still we never saw him.

They even built all manner of telescope, still we never saw him. I wonder where he is coming down from?

I also wonder how tall the tower of Babel was and what its foundation looked like, it must have stretched from earth to Jupiter and beyond.

NB: I'm still not saying he doesn't exist o, I'm only saying that he is not likely to be coming down anytime soon at least not physically.

Duduspace, do you believe the 'biblical' God exists?

An_Enigma:

Hey na who go come explain the tower of babel kwanu

I've been asking Daviddylan to explain that story but he is like Neo in the Matrix, he'll bend over backwards and sideways and dodge the bullet everytime

The strongest position any theist can take is that they believe by faith, they should never try to defend logically it just creates problems for them, david took the blue pill

But dios you guys were firing at the christians without pity, I missed. Where is the thread that said God cannot bring down nairaland, cant believe I missed so much fun. I never believed david could be reduced to replies of we will see on judgement day lol, but ma sleep was too important.

@chrisbenogor

I don't beleive he does as I see the facts available to me now, but I'm never hasty to draw firm lines because I can't really prove that he doesn't. So I'm okay with people who believe he does exist as long as they own up to fact that it is just a belief which cannot be proven in anyway.

I do beleive that there is likely to have been some intelligence behind the creation of the world because everything does seem a bit too perfect to have been by chance but it is just a belief I have because there is no other "complete" rational explanation available from elsewhere at present. But that intelligence which some call "God" could well have been the biblical God, Allah, Buddah, Krishna e.t.c for all I know and care.

And there are lots of actions and behavior attributed to the biblical God that does give me concern, but they might not really matter in a way if he is truly God because I really can't help wondering if I have a right to question "my creator"(supposing he is truly my creator that is) but I'm sure he wouldnt blame me if I ask those questions with my limited knowledge (having not given me enough evidence to come to a definite conclusion about him)

Bottomline: There are some things I might never know or be sure about so I reserve the right to beleive whatever I want to beleive about them while remaining open to explanations I consider rational. But those are my beliefs and I don't demand that anyone holds them as I do.

Ok duduspace I think you are agnostic, with strong atheistic leanings on the God of the bible.

Ok duduspace I think you are agnostic, with strong atheistic leanings on the God of the bible.
What you said underscores what I have been drumming into the theists heads here, its simple belief, anyone can claim anything but for your or their belief to hold as reality they have to be able to at least support it with evidence that no one can refute.
There are lots of theories and laws out there today that work regardless of race and religion, surely God can do better don't you think?

Chrisbenogor:

Ok duduspace I think you are agnostic, with strong atheistic leanings on the God of the bible.

I'm definitely Agnostic, but I lean more towards beleiving in the God of the bible than even David  realises because I do find a lot of Good stuff in the bible that provides a moral compass which helps one to be at peace with oneself and the society at large. Though I'm not sure if that is because I'm from a christian background.

I also actually respect the teachings of Jesus Christ a lot considering he had a lot of radical ideas relative to the mainstream beliefs of his time hence leading to his murder at their hands. He is mostly misunderstood and misrepresented in my opinion. I tend to beleive that a lot of these so called "christians" would be some of those who would crucify Jesus if he came to the world to day because they would consider him to be an heretic as he always questioned the accepted laws of the Jewish society while some of us would at least be open minded enough to hear him out.

But as I said, those are my beliefs and even if I'm wrong I'm sure I can look forward to better treatment from Jesus at my judgement than from misguided blokes like David who are claiming to be authorities on what they don't know.

Chrisbenogor:

The strongest position any theist can take is that they believe by faith, they should never try to defend logically it just creates problems for them, david took the blue pill

Interesting analogy you make, considering this:

So what are the advantages of taking the blue pill? As one of the characters in the film says, "ignorance is bliss" Essentially, if the truth is unknown, or you believe that you know the truth, what is there to question or worry about?


To justify taking the red pill we might ask what is the purpose of an ignorant existence? Further still, what is there in merely existing? Simply existing brings humans down to the level of objects; they might have utility or even purpose, but where is the meaning? Existence without meaning is surely not living your life, but just experiencing it. As Trinity says to Neo, "The Matrix cannot tell you who you are."

I feel you bro, I like some teachings of Jesus, but having critically viewed all the evidence I seriously doubt if he was divine at all, if socrates or plato included a divine angle to their own lives I think they could equally be believeable. Furthermore I think the story of the real Jesus is a lot different today, the gnostic gospels show that there were many forms of christianity. Personally I think if christianity was a scientific experiment that was needed to save lives it would have been scrapped.

Even animals have meaning to their lives no?

Ha this is a complex tread 4 ages people have continue to ponder on the existance of God,d bible and koran for real are inconclusive, so also are d historian and scientist but what i know is this
 
      THERE IS A SUPREME BEING THAT CREATED EVERYTHING
 
         A MAN AND WOMAN MUST COME TOGETHER TO PRODUCE A CHILD AND SO ON SO GOING BACK IN TIME IT MEANS TWO PEOPLE MUST HAVE STARTED THE TREND AND SO FAR THE BIBLE BEST GIVES A CONCRETE EXPLAINATION ABOUT THAT.
              The problem with we African is that we have allowed religion to cloud our reasoning we do not seems to be able to think properly,why has religion not helped change the society see Nigerian 4 example everything is in a mess yet we all claim to be aderent christain or moslem i begin to wonder if this is what is being thaught there.

Chrisbenogor:

Even animals have meaning to their lives no?

I'm not sure o but who knows? animals can act like human beings atimes for example guy chimp dey toast babe chimp  even dey give am flower in some instances. And the babe chimps self dey do shakara (if dem no dey in heat that is).

and Ecclesiaster 3:18 - 19 makes for an interesting read in comparing humans and animals.

Just what I had in mind bro.
Cheers.

Emilo:

Ha this is a complex tread 4 ages people have continue to ponder on the existance of God,d bible and koran for real are inconclusive, so also are d historian and scientist but what i know is this
 
      THERE IS A SUPREME BEING THAT CREATED EVERYTHING
 
         A MAN AND WOMAN MUST COME TOGETHER TO PRODUCE A CHILD AND SO ON SO GOING BACK IN TIME IT MEANS TWO PEOPLE MUST HAVE STARTED THE TREND AND SO FAR THE BIBLE BEST GIVES A CONCRETE EXPLAINATION ABOUT THAT.
              The problem with we African is that we have allowed religion to cloud our reasoning we do not seems to be able to think properly,why has religion not helped change the society see Nigerian 4 example everything is in a mess yet we all claim to be aderent christain or moslem i begin to wonder if this is what is being thaught there.

the quran also gives an explanation about that. in fact, that's what defines a religion. all religions have one explanation or the other for how we came to be. the only thing that makes the biblical one the most accurate to you is because that's the first one you got to learn.

@duduspace
yes. welcome to the Agnostic family. you know, we're are like new born babies. . . without religious influence from parents. We end up searching for answers as to why we are here and how we got here. what does that make us? those wit the openest of minds.

p.s. did you get the articles on buddhism yet?

"Uncertainty is an honest state of emotion.
A person has broken well into the open when he or she can say "I don't know"(or "I'm not certain".
To realize that you don't know this or that is the beginning of new wisdom.
It is never wrong to be spiritually hungry.
What IS wrong is to accept a piece of fruit without determining whether it is real or artificial."
-Vernon Howard

Emilo:

Ha this is a complex tread 4 ages people have continue to ponder on the existance of God,d bible and koran for real are inconclusive, so also are d historian and scientist but what i know is this
 
       THERE IS A SUPREME BEING THAT CREATED EVERYTHING
 
          A MAN AND WOMAN MUST COME TOGETHER TO PRODUCE A CHILD AND SO ON SO GOING BACK IN TIME IT MEANS TWO PEOPLE MUST HAVE STARTED THE TREND AND[b] SO FAR THE BIBLE BEST GIVES A CONCRETE EXPLAINATION ABOUT THAT.[/b]               The problem with we African is that we have allowed religion to cloud our reasoning we do not seems to be able to think properly,why has religion not helped change the society see Nigerian 4 example everything is in a mess yet we all claim to be aderent christain or moslem i begin to wonder if this is what is being thaught there.

God and read up the creation story in the koran its is better explained and sounds more rational than the one in the bible

Chrisbenogor:

But dios you guys were firing at the christians without pity, I missed. Where is the thread that said God cannot bring down nairaland, can't believe I missed so much fun. I never believed david could be reduced to replies of we will see on judgement day lol, but ma sleep was too important.

He asked me to take an oath and dare the biblical God, i did and when he saw that i was still alive he quickly turned to the God loves and cares for me mantra. I pointed out the fact that if the biblical God will want to kill his best friend moses because of something as trivial as circumcision i see no reason why he would'nt kill some one like me that took an oath and derided him to kill me the next minute.

Chrisbenogor:

Even animals have meaning to their lives no?

Please try and make it a habit to watch the national geographic channel, you will learn a lot for it. The channel has really opened my eyes with regards to animals they are just like us and i really mean it. They really are like us humans but the difference is that they live in their own different world. Animal habitats, hunting, eating, mating habits etc have been studied in details and put on vidoe for all to see.The bible LIED that God provides for the birds in the sky for that reason people should not worry because since he provides for the birds in the sky he will surely provide for his "children", which is very false.All the birds vigorously fight, search and hunt for their food, if they don't they die off. Nobody provides food for them but themselves. This just goes to show that the ancient biblical writers knew little or nothing about the birds, they never studied their hunting habits and how they live their lives, hence the blind and ignorant conclusion that God proviveds for them but thank goodness for science and national geographic who showed us that the biblical assersion is false.

I know bindex, me and david had a serious squabble about how different we are from animals, it was really interesting I think its on a fornication and homosexual thread.

WHOA!!!!

UNA DON PASS ME FINISH, I COMOT FOR ONE DAY SEE DAMAGE WEY UNA DO.
CHRIS WHJO HAS BEEN DOING WHAT AND SAYING WHAT OR TYPICH WHAT? OYA BRING ME UP TO SPEED.

@chrisbenogor

I don't beleive he does as I see the facts available to me now, but I'm never hasty to draw firm lines because I can't really prove that he doesn't. So I'm okay with people who believe he does exist as long as they own up to fact that it is just a belief which cannot be proven in anyway.

Are thoughts real?

~Lady~:

WHOA!!!!

UNA DON PASS ME FINISH, I COMOT FOR ONE DAY SEE DAMAGE WEY UNA DO.
CHRIS WHJO HAS BEEN DOING WHAT AND SAYING WHAT OR TYPICH WHAT? OYA BRING ME UP TO SPEED.

Are thoughts real?

I NO KNOW OH ask duduspace and dios and my oga Adam brody, LOL

read the thread and know na you will see the culprits me I swear I was not there, eh let me do small aproco, they opened a thread that God cannot bring down nairaland but I think Seun deleted it, I no talk oh, LOL
How body? wetin carry you comot?