Welcome, Guest: Register On Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / New
Stats: 3,173,866 members, 7,889,889 topics. Date: Monday, 15 July 2024 at 12:03 AM

Abortion: A Right Or a Crime? - Health (3) - Nairaland

Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Health / Abortion: A Right Or a Crime? (14690 Views)

Poll: Is abortion wrong?

Yes, Legally!: 2% (1 vote)
Yes, Morally: 29% (11 votes)
Yes, Both!: 35% (13 votes)
No, None!: 32% (12 votes)
This poll has ended

Having An Abortion: 95% Of Women Don't Regret It - Time Magazine / Doctor Arraigned For Allegedly Killing A Woman During Abortion / Is Abortion a bre*ast Cancer Risk? (2) (3) (4)

(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (Reply) (Go Down)

Re: Abortion: A Right Or a Crime? by nferyn(m): 2:43pm On Nov 06, 2005
@ jojo
I still advise you to read the complete thread and all the links. It's obviously a very emotional subject for you, so I can understand your anger, but the issue is far more complex than what you describe.
Think about the following:
- what is a baby and what isn't?
- when does personhood start?
- when does a fetus get the capacity to feel pain?
- is life more valueable than the quality of life?

Trying to paint people that undergo abortions or doctors that perform abortions as vile murderers is not helping anybody get a better understanding of the issues involved.
And I'm yet to see the first person that is pro abortion. It should be avoided as much as possible.
Re: Abortion: A Right Or a Crime? by jojo(f): 2:59pm On Nov 06, 2005
@ nferyn yes abortion is a an emotional subject to me i think of all the women who want to have babies and cant and there are women who are killing them because there not ready rolleyes or they dont have the money to look after it rolleyes or some other lame excuse ... and they baby is alive from the time the sperm hit the egg how else do u suposse it grows and thats just technical bullshit i have read up alot on abortion and seen pictures and read stories of women who are now suffering because they have had an abortion women who cant have more babies because they had an abortion so it comes down to if u dont want babies keep your flippen legs closed get your tubs tide do something to prevent it from happening in the first place dont just think well hell i want to screw him if i have a babie i will just get rid of it abortion is murder and those who perform them are murders and people who make excuses for people who do them are just as bad
Re: Abortion: A Right Or a Crime? by nferyn(m): 3:18pm On Nov 06, 2005
jojo:

[SNIP]
and they baby is alive from the time the sperm hit the egg how else do you suposse it grows and thats just technical bullshit
[SNIP]
This is clearly not true, unless you would call cutting your toenails or donating blood murder as well. If so, then our positions are so far apart that we cannot possibly even discuss the issues

jojo:

[SNIP]
and those who perform them are murders and people who make excuses for people who do them are just as bad
This all depends on the question when personhood starts and when killing a person is murder. I really don't like the implication that I'm just as bad as a murderer. Let's stay civilised here.
Re: Abortion: A Right Or a Crime? by jojo(f): 3:25pm On Nov 06, 2005
nferyn im just stating how i feel about abortion ...maybe u need to read up more on it see pictures maybe then u will understand why i have such a strong stand on this issue ...dident mean to offend u hope u except my opoligise ..but im sorry abortion will always be wrong in my eyes
Re: Abortion: A Right Or a Crime? by nferyn(m): 3:39pm On Nov 06, 2005
Hi jojo,

No offense taken smiley
Anyway, I have informed myself quite well on the subject and I have seen these kind of video's as well. They're an appeal to emotion on a subject that needs more rationality (and this from both sides of the divide)

please keep in mind that nobody is forcing anybody to undergo an abortion.
Re: Abortion: A Right Or a Crime? by jojo(f): 12:30am On Nov 07, 2005
nferyn im glad no offence was taken wink ...i also have seen these kind of vidios anyway lets agree to disagree wink
Re: Abortion: A Right Or a Crime? by IAH(f): 12:42pm On Nov 07, 2005
I think it's BS to be grading life on whether it's 5 weeks or 4 months or 17 decades old! If you say a foetus less than 2 weeks old or whatever is not yet life then what is it? Death?
If it can grow, then it is ALIVE...it is LIFE and so, a life or a potential life is lost when aborted.
Re: Abortion: A Right Or a Crime? by nferyn(m): 1:12pm On Nov 07, 2005
IAH:

I think it's BS to be grading life on whether it's 5 weeks or 4 months or 17 decades old! If you say a foetus less than 2 weeks old or whatever is not yet life then what is it? Death?
If it can grow, then it is ALIVE...it is LIFE and so, a life or a potential life is lost when aborted.

Whether or not something is alive should not be the yardstick in this discussion. Personhood is a much better determinant. You do not kill or destroy a person. A 2 week old fetus is not a person, even though it is alive.
Re: Abortion: A Right Or a Crime? by IAH(f): 1:17pm On Nov 07, 2005
nferyn:

Whether or not something is alive should not be the yardstick in this discussion. Personhood is a much better determinant. You do not kill or destroy a person. A 2 week old fetus is not a person, even though it is alive.

Sorry, that's another crap. What is the difference between a person and a human life? My dictionary simply defines a person as "A human being". That means a human that can be...this still translates to life.
Isn't a foetus a potential person?
Re: Abortion: A Right Or a Crime? by jojo(f): 1:18pm On Nov 07, 2005
oh nferyn it doesent matter on the age of it its a person from the time the sperm hits the egg
Re: Abortion: A Right Or a Crime? by jojo(f): 1:21pm On Nov 07, 2005
yes iah a feotus is a potentail person it has a heart and it is breathing from day 1
Re: Abortion: A Right Or a Crime? by nferyn(m): 1:27pm On Nov 07, 2005
IAH:

Sorry, that's another crap. What is the difference between a person and a human life? My dictionary simply defines a person as "A human being". That means a human that can be...this still translates to life.
Isn't a foetus a potential person?
It is indeed a [i]potential [/i]person, just as any other living body cell can be a potential person. The fetus acquires personhood when sentience kicks in. This is (certainly not before 23 weeks, as the neural networks to process external information are not yet present. The capacity to feel pain certainly does not start before 29 weeks. You could say that personhood starts somewhere between 23 and 30 weeks. Before that time, the fetus is, even though it may look human, nothing but a lump of living cells
Re: Abortion: A Right Or a Crime? by nferyn(m): 1:29pm On Nov 07, 2005
jojo:

oh nferyn it doesent matter on the age of it its a person from the time the sperm hits the egg

Then the female body commits infanticide at an alarming rate. Most fertilised eggs are rejected by the body and do not grow to become babies.
Re: Abortion: A Right Or a Crime? by nferyn(m): 1:30pm On Nov 07, 2005
jojo:

yes iah a feotus is a potentail person it has a heart and it is breathing from day 1

This is not true. since when does a fertilised egg have a heart or lungs? It's just a cell staring to divide
Re: Abortion: A Right Or a Crime? by loveth(f): 7:45pm On Dec 01, 2005
THIS LAST POST DON TEE.
Re: Abortion: A Right Or a Crime? by nferyn(m): 10:22pm On Dec 01, 2005
vexxy:

Abortion is a right and a crime. Everyone has the right to commit a crime, not so?

You disappoint me with this reply undecided This is just sloppy reasoning
Re: Abortion: A Right Or a Crime? by Fumi(f): 1:18am On Dec 02, 2005
Here comes MY personal opinion:

When i got pregnant, it was never planned and not fitting into my life at all. I had a well payed-job, loads of bills to pay etc. and my husband had no job at this time. When i went to my doctor, to find out, if i was pregnant or not, i thought of abortion.
BUT when i saw the heartbeat of my little Angel on the screen, i couldnt! And im happy for having her!!

BUT i also have a close friend, that was raped by her ex. She got pregnant and she aborted it, because her mental state didnt allow her to keep the baby. She was so much under shock and had deep depressions - she could have never cared for the baby. And even today, almost 6 years later, she is still having psychatric help.

I could never abort, but - under special circumstances like rape, severe illness of mother or/and baby - i would understand it.

fumi
Re: Abortion: A Right Or a Crime? by icingbaby(f): 1:21am On Dec 02, 2005
to me abortion is a crime, life is sacred to God, God want you to have that baby that why he gave it to you. an unborn child inside its mother is precious. for some one to kill such a developing baby on purpose is wrong. so it is a crime to me. if you know you don't want kid or too young to take care of one, then stop having sex. lipsrsealed
Re: Abortion: A Right Or a Crime? by vexxy(f): 4:33am On Dec 02, 2005
nferyn:

You disappoint me with this reply undecided This is just sloppy reasoning


When you think of it: Yes, according to laws and since it is your body it's your right to do as you please with it.

Then, when thinking of abortion in certain stages, by law it's considered a crime. When push comes to shove you'll make the final decision to do as you wish; thereby giving you the right to commit a crime.

I think it's more simple in reasoning then sloppy.

After reading all of these posts it really just comes down to what you believe and how you act upon that belief.
Re: Abortion: A Right Or a Crime? by loveth(f): 9:44am On Dec 02, 2005
vexxy:

Abortion is a right and a crime. Everyone has the right to commit a crime, not so?
Yes is true,but the question is,can you suffer the consequence?
But as for me oo i don't advice any body to commit it, coz is not good cool
Re: Abortion: A Right Or a Crime? by nferyn(m): 9:59am On Dec 02, 2005
vexxy:

When you think of it: Yes, according to laws and since it is your body it's your right to do as you please with it.

Then, when thinking of abortion in certain stages, by law it's considered a crime. When push comes to shove you'll make the final decision to do as you wish; thereby giving you the right to commit a crime.
This doesn't really make sense. you can apply the same logic to call murder both a right and a crime.

vexxy:

I think it's more simple in reasoning then sloppy.

After reading all of these posts it really just comes down to what you believe and how you act upon that belief.
Exactly, but then it depends on what your beliefs are based on. Are they based on hard facts and evidence or are they based on emotion. I do not disqualify emotions in this, but they cannot be the basis for policy, but rather for what you [i]personally [/i]are going to do.
Re: Abortion: A Right Or a Crime? by loveth(f): 10:21am On Dec 02, 2005
hmmmmm
Re: Abortion: A Right Or a Crime? by jojo(f): 3:49pm On Dec 02, 2005
I DONT CARE WHAT ANYONE SAYS ABORTION IS MURDER ... IF U ARE RAPED THEN THERE IS ADOPTION .... IN A LIFE AND DEATH SITUTATION NATURE NORMALLY TAKES CARE OF IT ITSELF
Re: Abortion: A Right Or a Crime? by vexxy(f): 4:54pm On Dec 02, 2005
nferyn:

This doesn't really make sense. you can apply the same logic to call murder both a right and a crime.

Yes, that's exactly right. We are given free will so if one may choose to murder someone. That's not to say that there won't be consequences for ones actions but one does have the right, law or not.

nferyn: Exactly, but then it depends on what your beliefs are based on. Are they based on hard facts and evidence or are they based on emotion. I do not disqualify emotions in this, but they cannot be the basis for policy, but rather for what you personally [/i]are going to do.


What you [i]personally choose to do will be based on what you believe. It truly doesn't matter what your beliefs are based on; may it be fact, fiction, emotions, or aliens your actions 'signify' your belief.
Re: Abortion: A Right Or a Crime? by nferyn(m): 9:21pm On Dec 08, 2005
@ mingiix
You could start with pointing out the flaws in the definition of when life starts. From that definition, we could identify whether or not that is a good indicator on whether or not an abortion is justified. Are you of the position that when life starts, terminating it is unacceptable in all cases, or does that only apply to human life? If so, how do you define human life and where do you draw boundaries on what kind of human life should be protected?

You have not substantiated anything yet, only stated an opinion.
I cannot see the relevancy of your comment about methamorphosis of the house-fly to the discussion at hand, what's the point of this comment?
Concerning the ability to feel pain, that is only an indicator of sentience, not a defining characteristic. The lack of neural pathways that can process pain most definitely is.

If you say
Most abortions are criminal albeit socially acceptable
then you need to do more than make that statement to have it carry any weight. Why exactly is that so?

When you say
from the above you see that humans change laws to suit their own selfish reasons. Howver, true morals never change.
you are again not substantiating your statement. A historical reference to some outdated standards proves very little. Frenology and racial eugenics used to be [i]respectable [/i]sciences as well. Hell, even today Freud is widely praised by a substantial number of psycho therapists.

I really don't understand how you can say that true morals never change. What is the origin of morality? What makes some morals true and others not? Why don't they change, what is their source? And what selfish reasons are you talking about here?

And one thing else. References to your medical background do not impress me at all. They are just an appeal to authority. I will definitely listen and respect the knowledge you bring regarding medical subjects, but that does not give you the authority to use your status as expert on domains your are not an expert in (unless of course you substantiate your expertise). You are yet to show that your statements show any expertise regarding ethics or the socio-economical context regarding abortion.
Re: Abortion: A Right Or a Crime? by Greatpeter(m): 11:27pm On Dec 08, 2005
Abortion is a crime.
And God hates it.

But in some cases, where it has to be done to safe the mother's life is not criminal.
Re: Abortion: A Right Or a Crime? by Oracle(m): 3:53am On Dec 20, 2005
Greatpeter:

Abortion is a crime.
And God hates it.

But in some cases, where it has to be done to safe the mother's life is not criminal.
THATZ RIGHT
Re: Abortion: A Right Or a Crime? by chrisd(m): 1:57pm On Dec 29, 2005
MURDER
Re: Abortion: A Right Or a Crime? by nferyn(m): 2:06pm On Dec 29, 2005
It seems that some people are proud about their ignorance. cry
Why don't you present an argument against abortion instead of stating your opinion without any justification.
Re: Abortion: A Right Or a Crime? by chrisd(m): 2:55pm On Dec 29, 2005
Fair enough. Perhaps the largest point of contention is the label applied to what or who is being aborted. Those who think abortion should be generally illegal typically use terms such as "unborn baby" or "fetus." This is a medical term, and depending upon the number of weeks since conception, it may be accurate. However, the word sounds clinical and inanimate, and those who use it have a double standard when it comes to using medical terms. Rarely do they use medical terms when referring to a pregnant woman (gravida) or a newborn child (neonate).

The term chosen by Just Facts is "preborn human." This phrase is medically accurate, distinguishes between humans and other mammals, and conveys reality in simple unemotional language. For those who might object to the use of the word "human," a few medical references are in order:
Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects is that the zygote and early embryo are living human organisms. Medicine and Biology states that a human is a member of the genus Homo, and a fetus is the "unborn child or offspring while still in the uterus."

Following are facts about human development, weeks after the first day of the last menstrual period (LMP)

3 Weeks: The eyes and spinal cord are visible and the developing brain has two lobes.
4 Weeks: The heart is beating. The portion of the brain associated with consciousness (the cerebrum) and internal organs such as the lungs are beginning to develop and can be identified.

The idea behind abortion is that people in reality want to kill a human being so as not to mess up their life. Murder by intent too.
Re: Abortion: A Right Or a Crime? by chrisd(m): 3:13pm On Dec 29, 2005
It is the equivalent to saying that if the mother thought it bothered her of having the child around, she could have it killed. Isn't that correct?
So we are talking of a person here.
Re: Abortion: A Right Or a Crime? by nferyn(m): 3:49pm On Dec 29, 2005
@ chrisd

Thanks for your well thought out response. You do make something criminal by definition. Your terminology is not as neutral is it may sound.

Our main point of contention is in the use of the term person. Please read the earlier posts in this thread to get a gist of my opnion.

(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (Reply)

What causes delay in conception? / Tips For Fresh Breath / COVID-19: Britain's Death Toll Rises To 36,675

(Go Up)

Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health
religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket

Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10)

Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 58
Disclaimer: Every Nairaland member is solely responsible for anything that he/she posts or uploads on Nairaland.