RexBrita:
@ Davien
You want to drop this line of questioning. The idea of a fora like this should be to educate. Arguments don't change people.

@Hiswordxray
Same goes for you bro. Jesus said no one cometh to Him except the Father bringeth him. You could say what u believe but you won't be able to force it down.

Educate? You demonstrably lied throughout this topic.....and pretend to agree with my response when it's a rebuttal...

Don't expect to be taking seriously when you say things like atheism is a religion and do not confuse pantheism as anything other than atheism.

Davien
i have been as honest as anyone can. when you read all the responses of other 'atheists' here, you will see i am very correct. apparently, just like in other religions, atheism has denominations too.

RexBrita:
Davien
i have been as honest as anyone can. when you read all the responses of other 'atheists' here, you will see i am very correct. apparently, just like in other religions, atheism has denominations too.

I blatantly disagree with you on this... thats a big lie

RexBrita:
Davien
i have been as honest as anyone can. when you read all the responses of other 'atheists' here, you will see i am very correct. apparently, just like in other religions, atheism has denominations too.

Lol, since when did having different opinions and views become denominations? All the way from your OP you've only created false equivalents.

RexBrita:
Some people say they don’t believe in God.
But everyone does.
Except that atheism does not approach belief in God in the manner that theism/conventional religion does.

The Higher Being
Every living person knows they have no control over some systems in the world and which no other human being has control of. Some examples will include the planets and their movements; the sun and it’s rising; the seasons; growing and aging; etc. The sophistication of these systems leaves all men curious and marveling. We all recognize that something higher than us is responsible. The grand phenomenon is called by different names. Theism calls Him/It, God, in many languages. Atheism calls It Energy or Force or any such name. But they refer to the same thing.

Like all other religions, atheism claims superiority often attacking perceived/assumed weaknesses of other religions. Like atheism, all other religions have pockets of unresolved questions which binds to the non-stop pursuit to know more.

God, Energy - similarities
It cannot be made nor destroyed.
We obey His/It’s laws whether consciously or not: for example we have no choice but to grow to maturity; food air and blood pass through different track in our body; physical laws like gravity.
We interact with Him/It but cannot see Him/it.
Spiritual laws guide our physical lives too for example religion says "what you sow, you reap"; atheism formulated that action and reaction are equal and opposite (Newton’s law). The similarities are endless if ones avoids the 'temptation' of superficiality.

Seek and you shall find
We don’t understand all of this great Being so we keep striving to know. Religion seeks more in churches and similar organization using faith and inspirational documents passed from generation to generation while Atheism seeks to understand it in labs by conscious observation and analysis using logical processes (SCIENCE).

Conclusion
The conclusion is that God loves everyone. However you seek him, you are welcome.
Theism approaches God as a higher being that human logic alone cannot interpret. Most times, logical reasoning is skipped entirely so that faith takes preeminence. A lot of questions are left unanswered, just like every answered scientific question in Atheism leads to many more questions that need answers. Atheism may not have the structural complexities and peculiarities or conventional religions with worship centers, modes of worship, religious leadership, hierarchies, etc but it is none the less a religion for 'believers' who do not want to adhere to theology without proof.

Humans' continued search will one day lead us to TRUTH. That time, only one Religion will be practiced: LOVE.
So which ever you follow, never stop seeking the Truth.
And you will be free indeed.

I think most people who need God to love them, they lack self-love. They are low in confidence and see themselves as shadows. Therefore, they go around searching for love/attention from other people. They have never experienced God's love, they dont actually need it; what they are really after is other people's attention/approval. In my belief, they are psychologically ill.

I guess we share some agreement since you didn't criticize my position.

Your first sentence is a fallacy of generalisation because even if there are such people (it cannot be proved that the set is exclusive to theism), not all theists belong there. All religions have a lot of truly satisfied people as members. If people need to be loved, then they must get it from those who are rich in love. So even by your stance, there are satisfied theists.

God, for theists, is manifest in all creation but bigger than creation. So, for them, experiencing love from other people or circumstances is still love from God. In Christianity for example, showing love to others is the central theme.

RexBrita:
I guess we share some agreement since you didn't criticize my position.
Your first sentence is a fallacy of generalisation because even if there are such people (it cannot be proved that the set is exclusive to theism), not all theists belong there. All religions have a lot of truly satisfied people as members. If people need to be loved, then they must get it from those who are rich in love. So even by your stance, there are satisfied theists.
God, for theists, is manifest in all creation but bigger than creation. So, for them, experiencing love from other people or circumstances is still love from God. In Christianity for example, showing love to others is the central theme.

I did not say there are no satisfied members of religions, rather I focused on love crusading religions like Christianity and its New Age copies. And more importantly I'm focusing on the their deep craving desire to be loved. They might believe they receive and enjoy such love, my concern such desire is psychological wrong.

@ Kay17
I agree 100% that some people's practice of religion (not just Christianity) fits well into your description. They are 'blind', confused and need help. But it is not new: remember that Jesus acknowledged the 'lost', 'blind', people described as seeds sown on rocks, sown among thorns etc. And should the leader of any denomination be 'blind', He/She raises an army of 'blinder' followers who agressively defend their "faith". It is a sad reality.

In the beginning,
,all God's creation had the ability to understand him immediately they were created.Lucifer and adam both understood God immediately they were created. but when sin came,that ability was taken away.when sin came to the earth and God cursed man,that ability to understand God was gone.Now,you have to first obey God before you can understand him.obey him by first believing in him.then you can understand him.And the more you obey him,they more you will receive back that understanding from him.You can Only know if something is true or not if you start searching for it.and the fact that you are searching for it shows a belief in the possibility of it's existence in you.if you,an athiest have never believed in God all your life you have to search for him with all your heart and you will find him.

@ Dux01

I suppose you didn't read all of what I wrote. I believe that atheists ACTUALLY believe and search for God just like you. The intensity, method and specifics of the belief and search may differ between theists and atheists (just like between religions) but the purpose, motive and direction of that search are prcisely the same. Some are more ardent in seeking than most theists.
Forget what christians or theism calls things and just focus on what is being described: you may say "God talking to people" and atheists say "inspiration"; you say "prayer", they say "thought"; and the likes.

If Christianity, and religion in general, keeps labelling others to score a point, they forget Jesus ate with the Gentiles, accepted Samaritans and dined with outcasts to show that it is not what people and groups are called that endears them to God. Peter was told in his dream to choose from all of what God created and eat without discrimination. Jesus said that not all those who call Him Father Father will make it to Heaven but those who abide by the commandment(s) of God. And that commandment is only Love - for God and for fellow man.

RexBrita:
@ Kay17
I agree 100% that some people's practice of religion (not just Christianity) fits well into your description. They are 'blind', confused and need help. But it is not new: remember that Jesus acknowledged the 'lost', 'blind', people described as seeds sown on rocks, sown among thorns etc. And should the leader of any denomination be 'blind', He/She raises an army of 'blinder' followers who agressively defend their "faith". It is a sad reality.

Do you crave to be loved?

RexBrita:
@ Dux01

I suppose you didn't read all of what I wrote. I believe that atheists ACTUALLY believe and search for God just like you. The intensity, method and specifics of the belief and search may differ between theists and atheists (just like between religions) but the purpose, motive and direction of that search are prcisely the same. Some are more ardent in seeking than most theists.
Forget what christians or theism calls things and just focus on what is being described: you may say "God talking to people" and atheists say "inspiration"; you say "prayer", they say "thought"; and the likes.

If Christianity, and religion in general, keeps labelling others to score a point, they forget Jesus ate with the Gentiles, accepted Samaritans and dined with outcasts to show that it is not what people and groups are called that endears them to God. Peter was told in his dream to choose from all of what God created and eat without discrimination. Jesus said that not all those who call Him Father Father will make it to Heaven but those who abide by the commandment(s) of God. And that commandment is only Love - for God and for fellow man.

it is a lie.the prurpose,motive and direction of the search is not the same.it is after the devil has corrupted their minds that they start searching.

@ Dux01

OK o.


@ Kay17

Lol...that got a smile outta moi.
Absolutely No. I do not crave love.
I have more than enough love about me.
Btw, the love I refer to is that preached by Jesus. To do unto other what u would that they to you. It is more blessed to give love than to receive. I am an ardent giver of love actually. To love is to be trully concerned about the progress of other and to invest in that progress in any way one can. It could be by teaching, praying, guiding or offering physical, emotional, psychological or spiritual (I don't know much about spiritual though) inputs in a completely selfless manner.

RexBrita:


Lol...that got a smile outta moi.
Absolutely No. I do not crave love.
I have more than enough love about me.
Btw, the love I refer to is that preached by Jesus. To do unto other what u would that they to you. It is more blessed to give love than to receive. I am an ardent giver of love actually. To love is to be truly concerned about the progress of other and to invest in that progress in any way one can. It could be by teaching, praying, guiding or offering physical, emotional, psychological or spiritual (I don't know much about spiritual though) inputs in a completely selfless manner.

@ the first bolded line, are you saying you do not presently crave for love because you have enough of the love from your religion? Because if that's case, you are one of those that possibly seek out religion for love.

@ the second bolded line. But what is the entire point of giving love and selfless acts to other people?! Why give at all, what are the merits of it? Especially when you pamper and spoil the people seeking for this love because they actually lack self-love. It is similar to opium and other opiate drugs. The drugs give immediate respite but are destructive and dont build.

@ Kay17

First, you have greatly derailed from the topic. We can extensively discuss love but not on this thread.

Second, you have gone personal, talking about me instead of the ideas brought forth.

Third, I am not wooing anyone to theism or atheism. Since u already have answers u are comfortable with, why ask questions? Aren't you the one craving for attention?

RexBrita:
@ Kay17

First, you have greatly derailed from the topic. We can extensively discuss love but not on this thread.

Second, you have gone personal, talking about me instead of the ideas brought forth.

Third, I am not wooing anyone to theism or atheism. Since u already have answers u are comfortable with, why ask questions? Aren't you the one craving for attention?

Divine love was one of the proofs you listed, demonstrating the awareness of God's existence amongst atheists. So any discussions on love is incidental to the thread. By my word, I was not attacking you directly, I was merely trying to prove my points.

@ kay17
No! No! No! I didn't try to prove anything. Please read it well. I merely opined that theism and atheism, religion and science, have a common purpose.

By God's love, mentioned only in the concluding part, I referred to everything positively available to humankind even before his existence. It will include all the systems that make up his body, all the systems in nature with which he produces newer systems and all the laws he has to work with like gravity, electromagnetism etc. Electricity has been in the world. Man just discovered it.

Human love is not just charity - money, clothes, food etc. It includes everything man does to make life better. So all those around the world who research to end cancer, HIV, Polio, Malaria etc are filled with love. Those who have researched and produced technology with which man does more (human improvement) are people of love. The man who owns the store down my street saves me the trouble of driving to the market - it is a gift of love to my neighbourhood. In whatever work you, Kay17, do u may also be showing love.

I won't derail anymore from the topic.

How do you think religions and denominations spring up?
A minor shift in opinion creates a denomination. A major shift in opinion creates a religion.

Same reply to you, Johnnydon

RexBrita:
How do you think religions and denominations spring up?
A minor shift in opinion creates a denomination. A major shift in opinion creates a religion.

Same reply to you, Johnnydon

Their is no creed or fundamental doctrine of any sort in atheism..

People just classify people that say "I dont believe a god exists" atheists and thats just it..

@Johnydon22

There is almost some sort of stigma attached to atheism by the religious in Africa (no, not just African). But deeper analysis of the thought processes involved on both sides will reveal we all chase after the same thing and do the same thing but dressed differently. So forget the window dressing.

Atheists are our brothers. We should mean you no wrong. And same goes for you guys to theists. The fights really ain't necessary.

Some atheists are better born-agains. And vice versa.
Just look deeper.

RexBrita:
@Johnydon22

There is almost some sort of stigma attached to atheism by the religious in Africa (no, not just African). But deeper analysis of the thought processes involved on both sides will reveal we all chase after the same thing and do the same thing but dressed differently. So forget the window dressing.

Atheists are our brothers. We should mean you no wrong. And same goes for you guys to theists. The fights really ain't necessary.

Some atheists are better born-agains. And vice versa.
Just look deeper.

What is that same thing we are chasing after please?

and what do you mean by born-again you got me lost there

Come on Johny, go easy on these. I haven't said anything different from the original post.

About born again? I meant I know atheists whose disposition to life are in line with christians call born-again. I also know theists who live like there is no God.

RexBrita:
Come on Johny, go easy on these. I haven't said anything different from the original post.

About born again? I meant I know atheists whose disposition to life are in line with christians call born-again. I also know theists who live like there is no God.

morality is what you liken to born again ish right? funny!!
Being moral is not in anyway tantamount to the so called born again or living as if their is no god. . morality depends upon nothing for a foundation, be it belief in a god or any other ish cus morality is a foundation itself.. Morality is a human thing and believing a fairy tale is another issue all together. do not reconcile both.

Johny, go easy on these. I have said nothing very different from the original post.

Johny, go easy on these. I have said nothing very different from earlier posts.

Over education is not enlightenment. It is the culmination of knowledge and understanding that leads to insight and wisdom.... That is enlightenment. I believe in God.. Just don't give a shit about his sorry are. Omnipotent my ar$e

@ voltron

U make sense but I don't think what u say is connected to this topic. Did u read it at all?

RexBrita:
@ voltron

U make sense but I don't think what u say is connected to this topic. Did u read it at all?

I no send the topic cos many like it abound waste of energy to even discuss

RexBrita:
@Johnydon22

There is almost some sort of stigma attached to atheism by the religious in Africa (no, not just African). But deeper analysis of the thought processes involved on both sides will reveal we all chase after the same thing and do the same thing but dressed differently. So forget the window dressing.

Atheists are our brothers. We should mean you no wrong. And same goes for you guys to theists. The fights really ain't necessary.

Some atheists are better born-agains. And vice versa.
Just look deeper.

I think I get your point, but your delivery is wrong. The late Christopher Hitchens used to say that there are some atheists who really wish that something or someone can prove them wrong. Your comment applies to those guys.

But there are many who don't even like the Abrahamic God in the first place, and would disobey it even if it was real. The God would be a bloodthirsty, dictatorial villain, and they would refuse to follow his demands, just like some North Koreans prefer death over servitude to their own dictator.

I'm in a third class. I too hate the Abrahamic God, but I would be among those willing to tolerate the despotic regime if the fantasy were to come true. Remember that brave dude from the Chronicles of Riddick? The one who publicly refused to bow before the Lord Marshall in New Mecca? I'm not that brave, or heat resistant for that matter.

@Weah96

I understand u but I am not talking about the 1st set of atheists you describe. I refer to all atheists. U may want to read the original post.

I acknowledge the differences between the pacifist theories preached by Christ which is in sharp contrast to some qualities attributed to the Old testament God. Christ resolved this difference as human progression. Hate, may be too strong a word but I, like many christians, will not accept to kill an innocent person in blind obedience the way Abraham accepted. So I think this is immaterial in support of atheism since most christians/theists hold that position too.

Finally, yes humans should follow theism and atheism with reason. One day, in the non too distant future (maybe a million years or more; lol), it will be obvious that we pursue the same things. By then, all religions will be one because even science would have led us to acceptable conclusions.
I'm not keen about the fantasies myself (I hope I got what u meant).

Yes