Cha I will not go thru any of those whitewashed links.
In the link I posted Umar seemed to know that if he made a request Allah would bring down a revelation through his prophet. Do I sense s lie that Allah was hearkening to Muhammad depending on what his prophet desired?
In another thread I posted somewhere Muhammad earliest scribe used to suggest to the prophet on how the revelation should read and the prophet would agree with him. The scribe realised then that all those revelations were made up and not from Allah. he apostated. That was in Mecca. When the prophet conquered Mecca that scribe escaped death by pledging allegiance to the new Kaaba ruler Muhammad. But the prophet accepted the allegiance on the third attempt wondering aloud why his saheebs did not read his hesitant acceptance to kill him whether he was hiding behind the curtains of the Kaaba.

User mane we know a lot about Islam and how it is fake.

usermane:
THE STATUS OF THE FACE-VEIL IN THE TRADITIONAL MUSLIM THOUGHT

[s]The veil is a very controversial subject in the traditional Muslim thought, in that despite all the books, lectures and sermons exalting it as a symbol of Islam and nobility, imploring women to veil, there is not a single verse in the scripture recommending it.[/s]

Nonetheless, the veil is so revered in the Muslim world that women have taken drastic steps like cutting off a relation, giving up their ambition or job in order to don the veil permanently. Although the veil is generally regarded as optional in the Muslim communities, family, peer, regional or clergy pressure is more than enough to compel women to adopt it. Besides, in certain region in the Muslim world like Saudi Arabia, the veil is regarded a mandatory wear for women and criminal, sinful for women to unveil before non-related men.

The use of veil have never been controversial issues in Islam. It well stated and clear without any ambiguity in the holy Quran. And various hadiths reported regarding the use of veil by muslim women.

I want to believe you intentionally post this to misguided ignorant people like you.

Trustworthiness:


The use of veil have never been controversial issues in Islam. It well stated and clear without any ambiguity in the holy Quran. And various hadiths reported regarding the use of veil by muslim women.

I want to believe you intentionally post this to misguided ignorant people like you.

Yea right Never controversial. Should I believe you or Sahih Bukhari.
Narrated 'Aisha: The wives of the Prophet
used to go to Al-Manasi, a vast open place
(near Baqia at Medina) to answer the call of
nature at night. 'Umar used to say to the
Prophet "Let your wives be veiled," but Allah's
Apostle did not do so. One night Sauda bint
Zam'a the wife of the Prophet went out at
'Isha' time and she was a tall lady. 'Umar
addressed her and said, "I have recognized
you, O Sauda." He said so, as he desired
eagerly that the verses of Al-Hijab (the
observing of veils by the Muslim women) may
be revealed. So Allah revealed the verses of
"Al-Hijab" (A complete body cover excluding
the eyes).
Sahih Bukhari 1:4:148
Narrated 'Aisha: (the wife of the Prophet)
'Umar bin Al-Khattab used to say to Allah's
Apostle "Let your wives be veiled" But he did
not do so. The wives of the Prophet used to
go out to answer the call of nature at night
only at Al-Manasi.' Once Sauda, the daughter
of Zam'a went out and she was a tall woman.
'Umar bin Al-Khattab saw her while he was in
a gathering, and said, "I have recognized you,
O Sauda!" He ('Umar) said so as he was
anxious for some Divine orders regarding the
veil (the veiling of women.) So Allah revealed
the Verse of veiling. (Al-Hijab; a complete
body cover excluding the eyes). (See Hadith
No. 148, Vol. 1)
Sahih Bukhari 8:74:257
'A'isha reported that the wives of Allah's
Messenger (may peace be upon him) used to
go out in the cover of night when they went
to open fields (in the outskirts of Medina) for
easing themselves. 'Umar b Khattab used to
say: Allah's Messenger, ask your ladies to
observe veil, but Allah's Messenger (may
peace be upon him) did not do that. So there
went out Sauda, daughter of Zarn'a, the wife
of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon
him), during one of the nights when it was
dark. She was a tall statured lady. 'Umar
called her saying: Sauda, we recognise you.
(He did this with the hope that the verses
pertaining to veil would be revealed.) 'A'isha
said: Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, then
revealed the verses pertaining to veil.

basilico:


Yea right Never controversial. Should I believe you or Sahih Bukhari.
Narrated 'Aisha: The wives of the Prophet
used to go to Al-Manasi, a vast open place
(near Baqia at Medina) to answer the call of
nature at night. 'Umar used to say to the
Prophet "Let your wives be veiled," but Allah's
Apostle did not do so. One night Sauda bint
Zam'a the wife of the Prophet went out at
'Isha' time and she was a tall lady. 'Umar
addressed her and said, "I have recognized
you, O Sauda." He said so, as he desired
eagerly that the verses of Al-Hijab (the
observing of veils by the Muslim women) may
be revealed. So Allah revealed the verses of
"Al-Hijab" (A complete body cover excluding
the eyes).
Sahih Bukhari 1:4:148
Narrated 'Aisha: (the wife of the Prophet)
'Umar bin Al-Khattab used to say to Allah's
Apostle "Let your wives be veiled" But he did
not do so. The wives of the Prophet used to
go out to answer the call of nature at night
only at Al-Manasi.' Once Sauda, the daughter
of Zam'a went out and she was a tall woman.
'Umar bin Al-Khattab saw her while he was in
a gathering, and said, "I have recognized you,
O Sauda!" He ('Umar) said so as he was
anxious for some Divine orders regarding the
veil (the veiling of women.) So Allah revealed
the Verse of veiling. (Al-Hijab; a complete
body cover excluding the eyes). (See Hadith
No. 148, Vol. 1)
Sahih Bukhari 8:74:257
'A'isha reported that the wives of Allah's
Messenger (may peace be upon him) used to
go out in the cover of night when they went
to open fields (in the outskirts of Medina) for
easing themselves. 'Umar b Khattab used to
say: Allah's Messenger, ask your ladies to
observe veil, but Allah's Messenger (may
peace be upon him) did not do that. So there
went out Sauda, daughter of Zarn'a, the wife
of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon
him), during one of the nights when it was
dark. She was a tall statured lady. 'Umar
called her saying: Sauda, we recognise you.
(He did this with the hope that the verses
pertaining to veil would be revealed.) 'A'isha
said: Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, then
revealed the verses pertaining to veil.

If there's contradiction on any issue, and Allah reveals a verse or verses in the Quran concerning it, then it means that the case is clear. The Quran overrules any Hadith, and there's no confusion concerning the Quran

9jaforlife:


If there's contradiction on any issue, and Allah reveals a verse or verses in the Quran concerning it, then it means that the case is clear. The Quran overrules any Hadith, and there's no confusion concerning the Quran

The guy is a confused human being. Instead of him to go and learn about the methodology of interpretation of the Quran and Islamic jurisprudence, he is busy trying to justify his deluded view that is overshadowed by hatred for Islam. Reading from sources of like mind such as himself.

I will advice him to go and study his bible first.

So, I have the following questions for the op to answer:

1. What is the or explain the concept of God in Christianity?
2. Who is Jesus? God, Son of God, Son of Man?
3. If the word Christian derived from christ, which means follower christ. Then what are going to call Jesus christ himself?
4. Following the question 3 above, what is the religion of christ.
5. Why do we have gospel ACCORDING TO Mark, Matthew, Luke, John etc. Why not gospel BY JESUS? Not even gospel BY Mark, Matthew, Luke, John etc?

Please, make reference to Jesus statements from the Bible to prove your point.

Although I am absolutely for freedom in terms of attire, I must say that there are considerable civil rights reasons in favor of banning veils, and one that must not be overlooked is the fact that a lot of women do not even voluntarily choose to wear it but do so under extreme social, cultural, religious and psychological pressure up to and including the threat of physical harm.

For such persons, the ban is liberation.

usermane:
HOW WAS THE VEIL INCORPORATED INTO MUSLIM THOUGHT


Make no mistake, [size=15pt] the veil predates Islam [/size] and did not even originate from the Arabs. It originated from ancient Indo-European cultures of the Assyrians, Sumerians, Babylonians, Greek, Romans and Persian. [size=15pt] This was very long before Islam. [/size]
.

Dear Usermane,

When did ISLAM start?

Trustworthiness:


The guy is a confused human being. Instead of him to go and learn about the methodology of interpretation of the Quran and Islamic jurisprudence, he is busy trying to justify his deluded view that is overshadowed by hatred for Islam. Reading from sources of like mind such as himself.

I will advice him to go and study his bible first.

So, I have the following questions for the op to answer:

1. What is the or explain the concept of God in Christianity?
2. Who is Jesus? God, Son of God, Son of Man?
3. If the word Christian derived from christ, which means follower christ. Then what are going to call Jesus christ himself?
4. Following the question 3 above, what is the religion of christ.
5. Why do we have gospel ACCORDING TO Mark, Matthew, Luke, John etc. Why not gospel BY JESUS? Not even gospel BY Mark, Matthew, Luke, John etc?

Please, make reference to Jesus statements from the Bible to prove your point.

since when muslims reject sahih bukhari? Any hadith that does not favour Islam ,muslims reject it.

1.God is ONE with 3 personalities
2.Jesus was God and at the same time was fully human ,the spirit of God was upon him and he was the word of God, both the quran and bible proved this.In Surah 19:19, the angel Gabriel said to Mary: “I am only a messenger of thy Lord, to announce to thee the GIFT of a holy son .” Here, Gabriel refers to a son who was to be given as a “GIFT” by God to Mary. Since the Qur’an makes it very clear that the son is a gift from God, it shows that Mary was only the recipient of that gift. She is not the source of that gift but God. The gift belongs to God. The gift was a son. Therefore, the son belongs to God which means the son was His or His son. In other words, God’s son. This testifies to the Gospel truth that Jesus is the Son of God.
3.Jesus did not came to preach religion, he came to reconciled us back to Himself,it was the people,when they saw the character of the disciples is no different from jesus,then they called the disciples" CHRISTIANS"
4.Jesus is God,he belong to NO religion.He does not recognised any.
5.Jesus did not speak his own word but the word which the father gave Him;
John8:38 >>>> I SPEAK that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father
And in john 8:40 it say>>>>But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have HEARD OF GOD: this did not Abraham.

His message was not primarily about Himself, but rather the good news that the Father ordained to be announced on earth.
>>>> John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not
my sayings: and the WORD which ye hear
is NOT MINE, but the FATHER'S which sent
me.

So Jesus did not write any gospel,the quran claimed Allah gave Jesus a book, we,the christians are the one's supposed to ask, WHERE IS THE BOOK?

9jaforlife:


If there's contradiction on any issue, and Allah reveals a verse or verses in the Quran concerning it, then it means that the case is clear. The Quran overrules any Hadith, and there's no confusion concerning the Quran

Can you show us, from the quran, where ther issue of veil is discussed?

true2god:
Islam started when mohammed claimed to have started receiving a special revelation from allahh, hence a new religion was born.

are you usermane?;

Trustworthiness:


So, I have the following questions for the op to answer:

1. What is the or explain the concept of God in Christianity?
2. Who is Jesus? God, Son of God, Son of Man?
3. If the word Christian derived from christ, which means follower christ. Then what are going to call Jesus christ himself?
4. Following the question 3 above, what is the religion of christ.
5. Why do we have gospel ACCORDING TO Mark, Matthew, Luke, John etc. Why not gospel BY JESUS? Not even gospel BY Mark, Matthew, Luke, John etc?

Please, make reference to Jesus statements from the Bible to prove your point.

Are those questions for the OP? The OP never claimed to be Christian.

"Last Age" is here folks.

Time to strengthen our faith, folks.

"Unbridled hoaxers" are here telling us what Islam is.

They are no doubt ibn Dajjal and Shayyateen.

Be careful. Protect yourself and your family from Dajjalic people.

Brace! Brace!! Brace!!!

It's going to get worse.

May Allah protect us from these agents of fitna.

DeepSight:
Although I am absolutely for freedom in terms of attire, I must say that there are considerable civil rights reasons in favor of banning veils, and one that must not be overlooked is the fact that a lot of women do not even voluntarily choose to wear it but do so under extreme social, cultural, religious and psychological pressure up to and including the threat of physical harm.

For such persons, the ban is liberation.

Thank you. I deliberately left that out because the advocates of the veil insist that most women wear the veil out of choice, not under coercion.

Then, there is the case of immigrants taking their official oath or pledge of citizenship in front of a Judge, the police and civilians, yet concealing their face. Very unethical and disrespectful.

^Lol, This is your prerogative. It's not disrespective so long as Judge or officer dont complain. My neighbor 2 years ago was stopped at the counter on her way to Singapore by US marshal. She was asked to lift her veil without disrespecting her. She complied respectively as well.

However, she didnt know there are human rights activists on board who said to her to file a complain with ACLU. She thought that was stupid as no reason to do so since officer did not harrass her.

Point is, if officials in court or at citizenship place dont complain, how's that your cup of Garri?. Yes, face veil (niqab, burqa etc) are not mandatory. It's also right of those who choose to wear them just like some think they have right to wear bikini. Garit?

usermane:


Thank you. I deliberately left that out because the advocates of the veil insist that most women wear the veil out of choice, not under coercion.

How do they know this?
What percent of veil wearing Islamic women would have the courage to admit it if they really did not wish to wear the veil?

DeepSight:


How do they know this?
What percent of veil wearing Islamic women would have the courage to admit it if they really did not wish to wear the veil?

They aren't even allowed to speak in anything...

Wake up early each day, research, investigate, study hard, listen objectively to all sides, rationalize, draw conclusion, stand for what you believe but be tolerant and not militant about it. That is my stance on life and religion in particular.

The fuel that drives a forum, an interactive platform like Nairaland is the differences in ideas expressed in the form of opinions, criticisms, suggestion, narration e.t.c. Without this differences, there is hardly anything to talk here, nothing to exchange, nothing to learn.

To assert only your idea while barring others from even being heard is the height of zealous bigotry and fanaticm. When you look at Islam section, that is the lane it is headed. I have been active in Islam section for about 36 months, even before my reformation from traditional brand of Islam to an heterodox one, i have always had reservations for Islam section. Born out of cases like Muslims being the only religious group entitled to a full section, the dogmatic mindset or abhorrence of self criticism in the section.

Let me repeat, i resent Islam section. It represent everything wrong with the Muslim world today, whether intolerance, ignorance, hypocrisy, oppression or victim complex. That is why i was taken aback to learn that this topic has been moved from Religion section, down here in Islam section. I have hard several of my threads deleted in Islam section, not for violating any Nairaland posting code but for criticising mainstream Muslim narratives and expressing alternative Islamic ideas or interpretations as i have done in this topic. Aside that, several non-Muslims have been penalized or banned for merely expressing opinions or observations critical of Muslims.

I abandoned Islam section to escape supremacist, militant and self-opinated Muslims and settled to post in Religion section where i can get decent dialogue, discourse and tolerance. The worst thing that could happen is to push my topic to Islam section where i have to endure provocation untill my topic is eventually deleted. Anyone who has read tartar9, RoyPCain, Trustworthiness and Empiree 's posts in this thread understand what am talking.

Please, OAM4J, Seun, stop moving my topics to Islam section. My topics aren't meant for only Muslims but for non-Muslims to question, judge and criticise responsibly; a right they cannot exercise in Islam section. I want to meet, share and learn from folks, Muslims and non-Muslims with diverse views, yet tolerant of others. Enough of Islam section agents.

usermane:


You should know by now, i don't believe in conjectures and hearsay. I am rather inclined to facts, that is why i restricted my work to the Qur'an. Even historical analysis like i presented has to be deeply researched and indisputable or else i shun it.

You should know by now, that your anti-Islamic posts are likely to be sanctioned in this section.

usermane:

Let me repeat, i resent Islam section. It represent everything wrong with the Muslim world today, whether intolerance, ignorance, hypocrisy, oppression or victim complex. That is why i was taken aback to learn that this topic has been moved from Religion section, down here in Islam section. I have hard several of my threads deleted in Islam section, not for violating any Nairaland posting code but for criticising mainstream Muslim narratives and expressing alternative Islamic ideas or interpretations as i have done in this topic. Aside that, several non-Muslims have been penalized or banned for merely expressing opinions or observations critical of Muslims.

You are simply trying to interpolate Islam. For that reason, you are not to be taken serious.

I Wonder What one hopes to achieve by 'studying' Islam just to constantly attack Muslims and their faith? I mean theres a difference between one who just chips in his opinion on a discussion or someone who genuinely wants to understand the religion but someone who makes devotes time to scouting the Quran to find things to whine and complain about and frequents Muslim forums just so he can mock and attack their faith is basically a pretty desperate nutjob that needs validation about how smart he thinks he is or how right he thinks he is.

Either way the fact is you ACHIEVE nothing, because its not like you're gonna make any Muslim lose his faith. Which then leaves the obvious answer, YOU ARE JUST A TROLL TRYING TO INCITE ANGER or someone with a lot of free time to waste.

In case you're wondering why noone chooses to engage in arguments with you the answer is because 85% of the time you misquote or take things way out of context, flat out use lies and non factual stories or simply post random insults. And of course as always there have been countless similar topics which people did reply to BUT what they find out eventually is those kind people aren't looking for answers or explanations, Nooo not at all, what they want is to have an open field to reign freely and they actually prefer when no one replies because then they can freely claim victory in an argument they basically had with NO ONE.

Lastly, Muslims understand why Christianity exists and has a large following which is because it was a religion that came Before Islam. But ofcourse what Christians think of Islam is that its (insert random insult here).

As for atheists , well no one gives a fvck what they think.

DeepSight:
Although I am absolutely for freedom in terms of attire, I must say that there are considerable civil rights reasons in favor of banning veils, and one that must not be overlooked is the fact that a lot of women do not even voluntarily choose to wear it but do so under extreme social, cultural, religious and psychological pressure up to and including the threat of physical harm.

For such persons, the ban is liberation.

What about those women who CHOOSE to wear it? What will the ban represent for them??

And if the hijab constitutes physical harm, do you think Mary, the mother of Jesus will be presented wearing it?

Empiree:
"Last Age" is here folks.

Time to strengthen our faith, folks.

"Unbridled hoaxers" are here telling us what Islam is.

They are no doubt ibn Dajjal and Shayyateen.

Be careful. Protect yourself and your family from Dajjalic people.

Brace! Brace!! Brace!!!

It's going to get worse.

May Allah protect us from these agents of fitna.

Allahumo Ameen. The agents of confusion are working tirelessly!

true2god:
Can you show us, from the quran, where ther issue of veil is discussed?

Q33:59
"O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful"

Q24:31
"And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands' fathers, or their sons or their husbands' sons, or their brothers or their brothers' sons or sisters' sons, or their women, or their slaves, or male attendants who lack vigour, or children who know naught of women's unclothedness. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And turn unto Allah together, O believers, in order that ye may succeed"