Xbee007:
I wonder the kind of human that reads the kinds of long epistles above. Don't you get tired Komekn?

First of all I'm in lockdown and locked out of normality as we know it here. So l have a little more time than usual.

To each his own, to some it may be long to others it may be short. It's a question of what you are use too.

Maybe you are more appreciative of the superficial and whimsical therefore do not require anything with depth.

As you have clearly confessed, it seems my write up may too be too taxing for your intellect.

komekn:


In all honesty l have zero interest in the rational of the USA's over priced arms industry cost benefit analysis. And the comparison benefits of the F35, A29 & A10.

It's a deviation from the core discussion, which is essentially what's best for Nigeria.

In that context is it best value to buy 12 turboprop A29 Tucano for $600 million that will not be delivered until 2024 for supposedly poorer partner countries. It's an absolute waste of money IMO.

Consider how much the over priced precision ordinances and missiles that the A29 will require to be effective. Do you think it's sustainable in the long term❓

It essentially it makes a nonsense of the claimed operating cost of $500 an hour when you are paying $600 million to procure just 12 aircraft.

But back to the original discourse which was to look at alternative options and consider best value for the greatest delivery outcome.

A consideration of other platforms which l did with the immediately available Wing Loong II UAV. And its much cheaper precision ordinances and missiles and 30 hour endurance for ISTAR. As well as the SU25 which has a comparable operating cost to the A29 and far more adapt to the CAS role which people feel, not me is intrinsic for succes in the NE.

But a quite a few consider the discussion to be antagonistic and contentious. Which it really should not be.

Do u know what the $600mil covers dude are we going to start this again...
Bro two spare engines each that's about 24 spare engines for the aircraft,Aside other spares, Infrastructure for the Aircraft and Ammunitions too(4000 Unguided Rockets,2000 MK8 250ibl bombs, Rounds of Ammo, About 700 laser Guided Rockets alongside it's AKWPS kits) Now six out of the twelve will be More upgraded than the rest with FLIR/EO pods...
Guy I don't know ur complaint o Now totally price for the spare engines alone is $20million dollars first..
Each of the aircraft $18mil * 12

komekn:


In all honesty l have zero interest in the rational of the USA's over priced arms industry cost benefit analysis. And the comparison benefits of the F35, A29 & A10.

It's a deviation from the core discussion, which is essentially what's best for Nigeria.

In that context is it best value to buy 12 turboprop A29 Tucano for $600 million that will not be delivered until 2024 for supposedly poorer partner countries. It's an absolute waste of money IMO.

Consider how much the over priced precision ordinances and missiles that the A29 will require to be effective. Do you think it's sustainable in the long term❓

It essentially it makes a nonsense of the claimed operating cost of $500 an hour when you are paying $600 million to procure just 12 aircraft.

But back to the original discourse which was to look at alternative options and consider best value for the greatest delivery outcome.

A consideration of other platforms which l did with the immediately available Wing Loong II UAV. And its much cheaper precision ordinances and missiles and 30 hour endurance for ISTAR. As well as the SU25 which has a comparable operating cost to the A29 and far more adapt to the CAS role which people feel, not me is intrinsic for succes in the NE.

But a quite a few consider the discussion to be antagonistic and contentious. Which it really should not be.

IIRC in one of your replies to a poster( I think jphillips) you alluded that using guns on planes for CAS is obsolete, even pointing that it was a ww2 thing. The last sentence on my last post was in reply to that ; the F-35 is a replacement to the A10 and also uses a 25mm gun.
In reply to your best value, I would say so many people have pointed out to you that the contract involves so many things. Training pilots and technicians, building and upgrade of airbase, ammunitions etc In reply to your fit for purpose, Each wing of the wing long 2 has 3 hard points for carrying bombs and air to surface missiles, that makes it 6 bombs or 6 air to surface missiles in total. The A29 has 5 hard points to carry various ordinance and two.50 cal internal mounted guns. On YouTube the difference that the A10 makes to the Soldiers on the ground is using its GAU-8 Avenger guns, not it's "precision bombs". General Adeniyi said not less than 15 gun trucks. In situations like this, which would you prefer overhead, a wing long2 having 6 bombs to expend or an A29 having 5bombs to expend and could go on several staffing runs?

Toju200:
I'm glad my page is reaching people across the world..
Here's what a Pakistani commented https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=857724608069495&id=563565107485448
From Nigeria to the world...

You are no more faceless. I saw your comments and your profile as well

Are Muslim soldiers exempted from Military operations during fasting period? The Heat here

blacKDalia:


IIRC in one of your replies to a poster( I think jphillips) you alluded that using guns on planes for CAS is obsolete, even pointing that it was a ww2 thing. The last sentence on my last post was in reply to that ; the F-35 is a replacement to the A10 and also uses a 25mm gun.
In reply to your best value, I would say so many people have pointed out to you that the contract involves so many things. Training pilots and technicians, building and upgrade of airbase, ammunitions etc In reply to your fit for purpose, Each wing of the wing long 2 has 3 hard points for carrying bombs and air to surface missiles, that makes it 6 bombs or 6 air to surface missiles in total. The A29 has 5 hard points to carry various ordinance and two.50 cal internal mounted guns. On YouTube the difference that the A10 makes to the Soldiers on the ground is using its GAU-8 Avenger guns, not it's "precision bombs". General Adeniyi said not less than 15 gun trucks. In situations like this, which would you prefer overhead, a wing long2 having 6 bombs to expend or an A29 having 5bombs to expend and could go on several staffing runs?

Baba, abeg help me manage this, make u use am cool down

Juchii:


You are no more faceless. I saw your comments and your profile as well

Are u sure cos I haven't commented on my page

komekn:


First of all I'm in lockdown and locked out of normality as we know it here. So l have a little more time than usual.

To each his own, to some it may be long to others it may be short. It's a question of what you are use too.

Maybe you are more appreciative of the superficial and whimsical therefore do not require anything with depth.

As you have clearly confessed, it seems my write up may too be too taxing for your intellect.

Your write-ups may be long but they lack essence. It's your type that lecturer will give assignment you will write 20 pages, meanwhile someone with just 4 pages will still get a better score than you. Information that could be contained in a single paragraph, you somehow manage to stretch it to a dozen.

BTW, the lockdown is not an excuse for you to be writing like a broken record. For weeks now, you've been arguing back and forth over a single topic and no amount of quality info to counter your stance seems to change anything. It's like pouring water in a drain!

SamuelAnyawu:
Are Muslim soldiers exempted from Military operations during fasting period? The Heat here

A lot of Muslim folks; you fast you’re on your own especially when you’re in the bush. If you’re in the barracks it’s on the better side.
Only few observe it, the heat here is from another world.

blacKDalia:


IIRC in one of your replies to a poster( I think jphillips) you alluded that using guns on planes for CAS is obsolete, even pointing that it was a ww2 thing. The last sentence on my last post was in reply to that ; the F-35 is a replacement to the A10 and also uses a 25mm gun.
In reply to your best value, I would say so many people have pointed out to you that the contract involves so many things. Training pilots and technicians, building and upgrade of airbase, ammunitions etc In reply to your fit for purpose, Each wing of the wing long 2 has 3 hard points for carrying bombs and air to surface missiles, that makes it 6 bombs or 6 air to surface missiles in total. The A29 has 5 hard points to carry various ordinance and two.50 cal internal mounted guns. On YouTube the difference that the A10 makes to the Soldiers on the ground is using its GAU-8 Avenger guns, not it's "precision bombs". General Adeniyi said not less than 15 gun trucks. In situations like this, which would you prefer overhead, a wing long2 having 6 bombs to expend or an A29 having 5bombs to expend and could go on several staffing runs?

The F35 is supposed to be a replacement for the A-10. And yet it is completely unarmored, slow to accelerate and has only one engine. A lucky shot into the engine by a DSHK well might bring it down, but what does an uniformed civilian like me know. Even worse, the plane is still a work in progress, with new problems being constantly discovered and retrofits where applicable ordered for existing aircraft.

More, you operated under a false assumption. For each Tucano you can buy from 15 to 20 Wing Loongs. So, if I were to choose from having one Tucano overhead armed with missiles, bombs and .50 caliber machine guns of relatively short range and having 15 to 20 Wing Loongs overhead, I would take the Wing Loongs every time and their missiles and bombs.

Also, rather than wait till Boko Haram is in range and be on the defensive, I would simply have 2-4 of these drones roaming overhead 24/7 with surveillance equipment and the rest parked a little higher in the sky and crammed with all the bombs and missiles they can fit in. With that in place, there's simply no way the enemy can approach my base, talk less of taking a sh1t without my knowing. Unless of course they are ghosts or passengers of Edo Airways

Xbee007:

Your write-ups may be long but they lack essence. It's your type that lecturer will give assignment you will write 20 pages, meanwhile someone with just 4 pages will still get a better score than you. Information that could be contained in a single paragraph, you somehow manage to stretch it to a dozen.

BTW, the lockdown is not an excuse for you to be writing like a broken record. For weeks now, you've been arguing back and forth over a single topic and no amount of quality info to counter your stance seems to change anything. It's like pouring water in a drain!

I respectfully disagree. We are all adults here. I understand that reading long articles might be hard on the brains of some folks here, but that does not mean Komekn or anyone else is not free to lay out the pros and cons of this and that course of action, strategy and the like in considerable detail. No one forces anyone to read it.
If you like short things so much, do you watch films at 10x speed? Or do you puree your eba and soup and drink it down like that because your time is short and it goes down faster that way? Since information can be contained in a single paragraph, kindly write a book of a single paragraph. I will help you sell it on Amazon.

blacKDalia:


IIRC in one of your replies to a poster( I think jphillips) you alluded that using guns on planes for CAS is obsolete, even pointing that it was a ww2 thing. The last sentence on my last post was in reply to that ; the F-35 is a replacement to the A10 and also uses a 25mm gun.
In reply to your best value, I would say so many people have pointed out to you that the contract involves so many things. Training pilots and technicians, building and upgrade of airbase, ammunitions etc In reply to your fit for purpose, Each wing of the wing long 2 has 3 hard points for carrying bombs and air to surface missiles, that makes it 6 bombs or 6 air to surface missiles in total. The A29 has 5 hard points to carry various ordinance and two.50 cal internal mounted guns. On YouTube the difference that the A10 makes to the Soldiers on the ground is using its GAU-8 Avenger guns, not it's "precision bombs". General Adeniyi said not less than 15 gun trucks. In situations like this, which would you prefer overhead, a wing long2 having 6 bombs to expend or an A29 having 5bombs to expend and could go on several staffing runs?

There is a reason why we do not use our drones often..cost of munitions.The tucanos is a balance between loiter time and cost of maintenance and munitions.
We cannot pretend to think that the war with bokoharam will end anytime soon.
Also,whenever the tucanos come in,it will be valuable for transition into the Jf17 for recruits,counter insurgency and border patrol. Drones don't have the speed to make a kinetically accurate hit with a dumb bomb,and targeting remotely with such is tasking.

GabrielYulaw:


I respectfully disagree. We are all adults here. I understand that reading long articles might be hard on the brains of some folks here, but that does not mean Komekn or anyone else is not free to lay out the pros and cons of this and that course of action, strategy and the like in considerable detail. No one forces anyone to read it.
If you like short things so much, do you watch films at 10x speed? Or do you puree your eba and soup and drink it down like that because your time is short and it goes down faster that way? Since information can be contained in a single paragraph, kindly write a book of a single paragraph. I will help you sell it on Amazon.

The crux of the matter is not really the length of his write-ups but the content. I read New York Times articles daily that are certainly longer.

He has been arguing about the Super Tucano deal for days now complaining about the price and the delivery date. He kept mentioning that the delivery starts on 2024 even after he has been told it starts 2021.

For someone who talk to lots of soldiers in same region, why not ask them? or you dey fear

SamuelAnyawu:
Are Muslim soldiers exempted from Military operations during fasting period? The Heat here

Xbee007:

The crux of the matter is not really the length of his write-ups but the content. I read New York Times articles daily that are certainly longer.

He has been arguing about the Super Tucano deal for days now complaining about the price and the delivery date. He kept mentioning that the delivery starts on 2024 even after he has been told it starts 2021.

He types long meaningless posts with no substance.

Continues to parrot same debunked claims over and over again.

kabe1:


He types long meaningless posts with no substance.

una wey dey reply him get strength ahswear

Xbee007:

The crux of the matter is not really the length of his write-ups but the content. I read New York Times articles daily that are certainly longer.

He has been arguing about the Super Tucano deal for days now complaining about the price and the delivery date. He kept mentioning that the delivery starts on 2024 even after he has been told it starts 2021.

I see.
Dear Komekn, there's really no use in flogging a dead horse. Let it go please.

Modified: So, i just visited the Wikipedia page of the Tucano. It says delivery will be complete in 2024. Eh, Nemesis8u, you are the expert here. Would you be so good as to let us know when delivery will begin and be completed cos there's so many conflicting info online and here. Muchas gracias!

dragon2:


There is a reason why we do not use our drones often..cost of munitions.The tucanos is a balance between loiter time and cost of maintenance and munitions.
We cannot pretend to think that the war with bokoharam will end anytime soon.
Also,whenever the tucanos come in,it will be valuable for transition into the Jf17 for recruits,counter insurgency and border patrol. Drones don't have the speed to make a kinetically accurate hit with a dumb bomb,and targeting remotely with such is tasking.

It like you have not been following the posts here. The Tucano will be mainly using its bombs and missiles and these are American made and expensive as sin. For the price of one of these missiles I could build several estates and have enough left over to make Shakira divorce her hubby and marry me.
On the other hand, its hourly running cost and ease of maintenance is great. I hope you know that a Tucano using its machine guns will place it in range of enemy return fire. It only has .50 cal machine guns, while ISWAP has access to 20-23mm auto cannons on its gun trucks. They might even have MANPADS, but no one is in a hurry to find out. If a pilot gets shot down over there na big trouble he go fall into, cos I don't really see the NAF dispatching a search and rescue chopper to bail him out.

As regards loiter time, I am really afraid you don't know what you are talking about. The Tucano can at best stay in the air for maybe 5 hours. Most combat drones on the market can stay aloft for 24 hours and there are even some that can stay up there for almost a week. Algeria has some of these if I remember correctly.

I am not much an expert in the air, but I believe pilots get most of their training on jet-propelled trainer aircraft, like the Alpha jet, L-39 or the YAK-130. If you think prop aircrafts are good for this, we have Mushaks from Pakistan for that. Or all on this forum can make a contribution and buy Piper Cubs from the abroad.

You said drones don't have the speed to make kinetically accurate hits? Do you think they are firing anti-tank sabot rounds?

As for remote targeting and control, the best thing by far would have been for the NAF to pay for a military satellite or buy space on same and be free to control their drones at any range.

As for this war not ending anytime soon, all of us here know why, but few will admit it publicly.

GabrielYulaw:


The F35 is supposed to be a replacement for the A-10. And yet it is completely unarmored, slow to accelerate and has only one engine. A lucky shot into the engine by a DSHK well might bring it down, but what does an uniformed civilian like me know. Even worse, the plane is still a work in progress, with new problems being constantly discovered and retrofits where applicable ordered for existing aircraft.

More, you operated under a false assumption. For each Tucano you can buy from 15 to 20 Wing Loongs. So, if I were to choose from having one Tucano overhead armed with missiles, bombs and .50 caliber machine guns of relatively short range and having 15 to 20 Wing Loongs overhead, I would take the Wing Loongs every time and their missiles and bombs.

Also, rather than wait till Boko Haram is in range and be on the defensive, I would simply have 2-4 of these drones roaming overhead 24/7 with surveillance equipment and the rest parked a little higher in the sky and crammed with all the bombs and missiles they can fit in. With that in place, there's simply no way the enemy can approach my base, talk less of taking a sh1t without my knowing. Unless of course they are ghosts or passengers of Edo Airways

You are making it seem as if the North East is a 50 by 100 feet plot of land . Having drones loitering around is a waste of time and resources. I've never seen /read / heard any army operating it's drone like that.

blacKDalia:




You are making it seem as if the North East is a 50 by 100 feet plot of land . Having drones loitering around is a waste of time and resources. I've never seen /read / heard any army operating it's drone like that.

Lol. The North East is pretty big. I acknowledge that. Having drones overhead at all hours might seem like a waste. But what are the alternatives? If 24/7 surveillance is not in effect the enemy can move and strike at will. How many times have you read about their ambushing and killing our troops and even driving them out of their bases? Would that have happened if the troops had been forewarned and prepared?

The only alternative is hiring witches to fly all over and patrol the place on the regular . Or build satellites and keep track of every living thing there. If we are serious about sh1t, permanent eyes in the sky is essential. Otherwise the enemy will only engage at times and places of their choosing and have the initiative.

By the way, nice of you to engage yours truly in a polite manner. Hope you are having a great weekend.

A Super Tucano will use mostly the APKWS (Advanced precision kill weapons system) which is basically a guided system attached to a rocket, unguided rockets and guided bombs not expensive missiles. Then there are the guns for straffing.

rka2:
A Super Tucano will use mostly the APKWS (Advanced precision skill weapons system) which is basically a guided system attached to a rocket, unguided rockets and guided bombs not expensive missiles. Then there are the guns for straffing.

Nice to hear. Wikipedia says the unit cost of the APKWS is $22K. Does that apply to one single rocket or what? I'm just genuinely curious.

GabrielYulaw:


Lol. The North East is pretty big. I acknowledge that. Having drones overhead at all hours might seem like a waste. But what are the alternatives? If 24/7 surveillance is not in effect the enemy can move and strike at will. How many times have you read about their ambushing and killing our troops and even driving them out of their bases? Would that have happened if the troops had been forewarned and prepared?

The only alternative is hiring witches to fly all over and patrol the place on the regular . Or build satellites and keep track of every living thing there. If we are serious about sh1t, permanent eyes in the sky is essential. Otherwise the enemy will only engage at times and places of their choosing and have the initiative.

By the way, nice of you to engage yours truly in a polite manner. Hope you are having a great weekend.

One of the best alternatives we've is the tucano, ready at all times responding to own military distress call. My only misgiving about the tucano deal is the time of delivery, which doesn't show the exigency in the North East and seriousness of the top military hierarchy.

GabrielYulaw:


Nice to hear. Wikipedia says the unit cost of the APKWS is $22K. Does that apply to one single rocket or what? I'm just genuinely curious.

perhaps we'll be acquiring like 400-700 or more perhaps

GabrielYulaw:


Nice to hear. Wikipedia says the unit cost of the APKWS is $22K. Does that apply to one single rocket or what? I'm just genuinely curious.

The guided kit when attached to an unguided rocket may well cost as much as that, but I am not sure. Below is a quote from BAE Systems on its effectiveness:


"Combat-proven for over 5 years, BAE Systems' APKWS® laser-guided rocket redefines precision by hitting targets with pinpoint accuracy and minimal collateral damage – critical for air-to-ground missions when you only have one shot."



https://www.baesystems.com/en-uk/product/apkws--laser-guided-rocket

GabrielYulaw:


More, you operated under a false assumption. For each Tucano you can buy from 15 to 20 Wing Loongs. So, if I were to choose from having one Tucano overhead armed with missiles, bombs and .50 caliber machine guns of relatively short range and having 15 to 20 Wing Loongs overhead, I would take the Wing Loongs every time and their missiles and bombs.

Also, rather than wait till Boko Haram is in range and be on the defensive, I would simply have 2-4 of these drones roaming overhead 24/7 with surveillance equipment and the rest parked a little higher in the sky and crammed with all the bombs and missiles they can fit in. With that in place, there's simply no way the enemy can approach my base, talk less of taking a sh1t without my knowing. Unless of course they are ghosts or passengers of Edo Airways

If all things were ideal. Why not. UCAVs 24/7 dropping missiles like dildos to Bleep the terrorist. But come awake now, If budget becomes tight (tighter than the tight thing we have now) the Tucano will carry 4 rocket pods (40 rockets ready to be fired), Its internal guns and an EO/ISr pod. A UCAV in that situation will only be eyes.

Modify
If you say the Tuc becomes vulnerable because it must climb lower to engage. I say it first suppresses with rockets then it uses its guns

Odunayaw:

If all things were ideal. Why not. UCAVs 24/7 dropping missiles like dildos to Bleep the terrorist. But come awake now, If budget becomes tight (tighter than the tight thing we have now) the Tucano will carry 4 rocket pods (40 rockets ready to be fired), Its internal guns and an EO/ISr pod. A UCAV in that situation will only be eyes.

Modify
If you say the Tuc becomes vulnerable because it must climb lower to engage. I say it first suppresses with rockets then it uses its guns

Sounds very reasonable. By the way, who drops missiles like dildos? Don't tell me it's Mia Khalifa

GabrielYulaw:


It like you have not been following the posts here. The Tucano will be mainly using its bombs and missiles and these are American made and expensive as sin. For the price of one of these missiles I could build several estates and have enough left over to make Shakira divorce her hubby and marry me.
On the other hand, its hourly running cost and ease of maintenance is great. I hope you know that a Tucano using its machine guns will place it in range of enemy return fire. It only has .50 cal machine guns, while ISWAP has access to 20-23mm auto cannons on its gun trucks. They might even have MANPADS, but no one is in a hurry to find out. If a pilot gets shot down over there na big trouble he go fall into, cos I don't really see the NAF dispatching a search and rescue chopper to bail him out.

As regards loiter time, I am really afraid you don't know what you are talking about. The Tucano can at best stay in the air for maybe 5 hours. Most combat drones on the market can stay aloft for 24 hours and there are even some that can stay up there for almost a week. Algeria has some of these if I remember correctly.

I am not much an expert in the air, but I believe pilots get most of their training on jet-propelled trainer aircraft, like the Alpha jet, L-39 or the YAK-130. If you think prop aircrafts are good for this, we have Mushaks from Pakistan for that. Or all on this forum can make a contribution and buy Piper Cubs from the abroad.

You said drones don't have the speed to make kinetically accurate hits? Do you think they are firing anti-tank sabot rounds?

As for remote targeting and control, the best thing by far would have been for the NAF to pay for a military satellite or buy space on same and be free to control their drones at any range.

As for this war not ending anytime soon, all of us here know why, but few will admit it publicly.

I can guarantee you we won't be using missiles,if that was so our ch3 drones would be flying at will. During the Liberia war our alphas were flying constantly into AAA fire and going home.This shocked the Europeans that built it.
Secondly,if you have noticed our primary munitions are rocket and bombs.The rockets are our standoff munitions against triple A fire. That's why our attack helicopters survive BH, the same will be for the Tucano.The rockets are tactical while the bombs are strategic. If we are afraid of Manpads them how come we do not have high attrition from helicopters?
Tucanos as trainers is because we don't have mission computer on any platform as modern as those on the tucano and Jf17.
As for kinetic kill by drones am talking about the dumb bombs. Drones use missile only ,we don't. Drones can't strike an accurate kill with dumb bombs due to lack of kinetics.This is what is done by the alpha jets. If you think we are firing missiles from the alpha jets you are wrong,only about 2-5% of strikes is missile.
In conclusion,we don't do remote killing because we can't afford missiles,hence few drones.The alphas loiter times is max 1 HR and at high altitude.The tucanos can engage AAA beyond range with rockets at a range further off than helicopters due to its kinetic energy,loiter long,give ground troops live intelligence and is cheap to maintain and weaponise.It is smack in-between the jet and the helicopter and is not as expensive to weaponise as the drone,while being relatively safe.

Toju200:
I'm glad my page is reaching people across the world..
Here's what a Pakistani commented https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=857724608069495&id=563565107485448
From Nigeria to the world...

If you look at the images carefully you will spot body work on aradu is ongoing. I think our navy engineers are getting more confident in their ship building and repair abilities.

GabrielYulaw:


I see.
Dear Komekn, there's really no use in flogging a dead horse. Let it go please.

Modified: So, i just visited the Wikipedia page of the Tucano. It says delivery will be complete in 2024. Eh, Nemesis8u, you are the expert here. Would you be so good as to let us know when delivery will begin and be completed cos there's so many conflicting info online and here. Muchas gracias!

Generally no idea in all these paperwork stuff.

AFAIK estimated first aircraft delivery 2021 and the entire deal by 2024.

Timelines are sought to be adhered to , but it is not guaranteed always due to unforeseen events.

Hence in FMS deals u will come across " estimated " more than once.

I onc posted the FMS pdf here , can't find it .

The total price quoted in any FMS notification to Congress is the " estimated " price . A reasonable approx of the final price.

To know the actual price and breakup , u will need to know the billed amount.

nemesis8u:


Generally no idea in all these paperwork stuff.

AFAIK estimated first aircraft delivery 2021 and the entire deal by 2024.

Timelines are sought to be adhered to , but it is not guaranteed always due to unforeseen events.

Hence in FMS deals u will come across " estimated " more than once.

I onc posted the FMS pdf here , can't find it .

Thanks and happy Sunday.