DayoKanu Stupid boy

I dont swing both ways like u.

stop!

I think most religions are silly, but Islam is up there with the worst of 'em. Muslims are a very aggressive group of people. When I hear some of the crap they spout in the UK one cannot be but astounded at the arrogance and audacity and irony of preaching hatred against the same country one bent over to get a visa in.

If modern Christians were interested in holy war, REAL holy war, there would be no Muslim world by now. It would be irradiated deserts with "WARNING: RADATION" signs posted at their borders.


Muslims need to calm the Bleep down before that happens to them.


Anyhow, no black man anywhere across the world should bow down towards Mecca, the Arab (spits) capital. No Black should face Jerusalem and bow down to a Jew religion (christianity) either. We black don't need this imported garbage. Whether brought on camels, or whether brought by boats from Europe, same shit, different toilet.

My own simple question is this
Why is Islam the only religion that the Prophet of "God" commands them to kill
Other religions may have people who kill but I put it to you that their religious leaders go as far as denoucing such members because it is against their doctrine.

I saw this on the internet!!!:

[b]Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar, an Iranian-born American citizen awaiting trial for nine counts of attempted murder, cited a number of verses from the Qur'an in justifying his attempt to kill civilians, including:[92]

Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not. [Qur'an 2:216]

The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter; [Qur'an 5:33]

But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. [Qur'an 9:5]

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! [Qur'an 9:29-30]
[/b]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism

Can a moslem deny that Mohammed was not into Killing too
If my memory serves me right, he is the only prophet that converts by force and by invading cities, killing and enslaving and forcing his religion on others.
Is that Mutual respect?
How then do the Moslems want to have respect when even their own master had NO RESPECT for the basics rights of innocent people i.e the right to life and the right to freedom of religion
If you respect me, I respect you.
Non-Moslems are even giving moslems more respect than they f***ing deserve!!!
If Non-moslems decided to embark on "Holy War" too against moslems, they'll be wiped out in less than 24 Hours!!!

@SpiralEx: You forgot the Children of Israel prophets; from Moses to Solomon, who warred all the way after crossing the sea and even after settling in Palestine.

SpiralEx:

My own simple question is this
Why is Islam the only religion that the Prophet of "God" commands them to kill
Other religions may have people who kill but I put it to you that their religious leaders go as far as denoucing such members because it is against their doctrine.

I saw this on the internet!!!:

[b]Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar, an Iranian-born American citizen awaiting trial for nine counts of attempted murder, cited a number of verses from the Qur'an in justifying his attempt to kill civilians, including:[92]

Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not. [Qur'an 2:216]

The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter; [Qur'an 5:33]

But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. [Qur'an 9:5]

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! [Qur'an 9:29-30]
[/b]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism

Can a moslem deny that Mohammed was not into Killing too
If my memory serves me right, he is the only prophet that converts by force and by invading cities, killing and enslaving and forcing his religion on others.
Is that Mutual respect?
How then do the Moslems want to have respect when even their own master had NO RESPECT for the basics rights of innocent people i.e the right to life and the right to freedom of religion
If you respect me, I respect you.
Non-Moslems are even giving moslems more respect than they f***ing deserve!!!
If Non-moslems decided to embark on "Holy War" too against moslems, they'll be wiped out in less than 24 Hours!!!

My dear, u and the person who quot this verses and translated it got it wrong. and that is why Allah said in the Qur,an,

That ( know me, Before you serve me, because if you dont know me, how will you serve me)

Muhammad’s Ministry in Mecca

Generally Muslims have recognized that Muhammad began his ministry among his own people (the Arabs) in and around Mecca in A.D. 610. For thirteen years he faithfully proclaimed that God alone is God. Yet his followers were few and mostly of lower status. With Muhammad they endured opposition, ridicule and even persecution. Still, throughout this period he responded with restraint. In fact, the Qur’an itself documents how he was to respond to rejection and abuse. The following are a few examples:

I (Muhammad) am but a plain warner. (67:2; passim)[3]

We have not sent thee (Muhammad) as a warden over them. (17:54)

So proclaim that which thou art commanded, and withdraw from the idolaters. (15:94; cf. 15:94-99)

And bear with patience what they utter, and part from them with a fair leave taking. (73:10)

, And to be of those who believe and exhort one another to perseverance and exhort one another to pity! (90:17)

Call unto the way of the Lord, and reason with them in a better way, Grieve not for them and be not in distress because of that which they devise. (16:125-127)

Repel evil with that which is better. (23:96)

All of the above passages are Meccan passages, i.e., passages Muhammad received while he proclaimed Islam in Mecca. As long as he remained in Mecca, he responded to his enemies peacefully and with restraint. He never responded militantly. What a fine resource of Quranic references to demonstrate that Islam is peaceful, non-violent!

Muhammad’s Ministry in Medina

In A.D. 622 Muhammad moved from his home in Mecca to Medina, where Arab tribes had invited him to reside and where they became members of the new Islamic movement. So important is this event in Islamic history – it is called the hijrah ("emigration" – that it actually marks the beginning of the Islamic era.[4]

In Medina Muhammad quickly assumed both religious and political leadership over the whole Medinan community. Soon after he arrived in Medina, he received the first of many Quranic passages (called Medinan passages) which directed him and the Muslim community to fight in the cause of Allah against their enemies. The Qur’an alludes to Muhammad’s conflicts with the Arab polytheists throughout Arabia, with the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) and with the hypocrites (Arab polytheists who feigned conversion to Islam: cf. 49:14). The earliest extant Muslim biographies of Muhammad detail Muhammad’s military struggles.[5] It is these conflicts which serve as the seeds for the traditional Islamic divisions of society into 1. the House of Islam and the House of War and 2. the Muslim Community; the People of the Book (Jews and Christians, cf. 9:29,30); the Polytheists (who could become Muslim or accept death or slavery).

The following are a few of the Medinan passages which refer to jihad as military struggle in the Qur’an:

Sanction is given unto those who fight because they have been wronged, (22:39; cf. 22:39-41)[6]

The (true) believers are those only who believe in Allah and His messenger and afterward doubt not, but strive with their wealth and their lives for the cause of Allah. Such are the sincere. (49:15; 22:78; 25:52)

Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.

And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrongdoers.

The forbidden month for the forbidden month, and forbidden things in retaliation. And one who attacketh you, attack him in like manner as he attacked you. Observe your duty to Allah, and know that Allah is with those who ward off (evil).

Spend your wealth for the cause of Allah, (2:190-195; cf. 2:216-218; 2:244; 8:38-40; 8:65,66; 4:84; 5:33-35; 61:4)

Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free, (9:5)

Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the religion of truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they! (9:29,30)

O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey’s end. (9:73)

O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him). (9:123)

As for Jihad’s motivation and benefits:

O ye who believe! Shall I show you a commerce that will save you from a painful doom?

You should believe in Allah and His messenger, and should strive for the cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives. That is better for you, if ye did but know.

He will forgive you your sins and bring you into Gardens underneath which rivers flow, and pleasant dwellings in Gardens of Eden. That is the supreme triumph.

And (He will give you) another blessing which ye love: help from Allah and present victory. Give good tidings (O Muhammad) to believers. (61:10-13; cf. 9:19-22; 9:111; 2:154; 2:243-245; 47:4-6; 3:195)

, Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than those who sit (at home). (4:95)

From the above Meccan and Medinan verses Muslims have understood that there is a chronological progression in Muhammad’s ministry from peaceful proclamation only in Mecca to peaceful proclamation supported, if needed, by the sword in Medina. This was not to suggest that God had changed His mind and that peaceful proclamation of Islam had ceased. It simply meant that when Muhammad entered Medina, initially he was allowed to defend himself against his enemies with the same weapons they used to attack him and eventually was ordered even to fight all idolaters.

The well known Egyptian scholar, Sayyid Qutb, notes four stages in the development of jihad: 1. While the earliest Muslims remained in Mecca before fleeing to Medina, God did not allow them to fight; 2. Permission is given to Muslims to fight against their oppressors; 3. God commands Muslims to fight those fighting them; 4. God commands the Muslims to fight against all polytheists. He views each stage to be replaced by the next stage in this order, the fourth stage to remain permanent.[7] To justify the universal and permanent dimensions of jihad he cites the following passages:

They ought to fight in the way of God who have sold the life of this world for the life of the Hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of God and is killed or becomes victorious, to him shall We (God) give a great reward, (4:74-76)

, and fight them until there is no oppression and the religion is wholly for God, (8:38-40)

Fight against those among the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) who do not believe in God and the Last Day, who do not forbid what God and His messenger have forbidden, until they are subdued and pay jizyah (tax on non-Muslims) , (9:29-32)

But, as we sometimes hear, does not Islam teach that jihad as physical warfare is solely defensive? True, a few voices in earlier Islamic history and even more voices from the nineteenth century onwards have held this opinion. No doubt, today also many Muslims in the West espouse this opinion, though one might wonder how familiar some of them are with the source materials and history of Islam. Sayyid Qutb, however, pours scorn upon those who view jihad as solely defensive:

, They are ignorant of the nature of Islam and of its function, and that it has a right to take the initiative for human freedom.

Thus wherever an Islamic community exists which is a concrete example of the Divinely-ordained system of life, it has a God-given right to step forward and take control of the political authority so that it may establish the Divine system on earth, while it leaves the matter of belief to individual conscience.[8]

He then cites, during the early advance of Islam, the Muslim response to the Persian general, Rustum, after Rustum enquired why the Muslim leaders had come to Persia with their army:

God has sent us to bring anyone who wishes from servitude to men into the service of God alone, from the narrowness of this world into the vastness of this world and the Hereafter, and from the tyranny of religions into the justice of Islam. God raised a Messenger for this purpose to teach His creatures His way. If anyone accepts this way of life, we turn back and give his country back to him, and we fight with those who rebel until we are martyred or become victorious.[9]

What kind of silly question is this?

@SpiralEx,

The answer to your questions can be found in the article below.

MOHAMMED VS CHRIST

In his article “Self Hate, Revisionist History and Christophobia in the Movie Kingdom of Heaven” Dr. Ted Baehr notes some of the differences between Mohammed and Christ:

[list]
[li]“ Mohammed was the prophet of war; Christ is the Prince of Peace (Isaiah 9:6-7). [/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Mohammed's disciples killed for the faith; Christ's disciples were killed for their faith (Acts 12:2; 2 Tim. 4:7).[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Mohammed promoted persecution against the "infidels"; Christ forgave and converted the chief persecutor (1 Tim. 1:13-15).[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Mohammed was the taker of life; Christ is the giver of life (John 10:27-28).[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Mohammed and his fellow warriors murdered thousands; Christ murdered none but saved many (John 12:48).[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Mohammed’s method was COMPULSION; Christ’s aim was CONVERSION (Acts 3:19). [/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Mohammed practiced FORCE; Christ preached FAITH (John 6:29, 35).[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Mohammed was a WARRIOR; Christ is a DELIVERER (Col. 1:13; 1 Thess. 1:10).[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Mohammed said to the masses, "Convert or die!"; Christ said, "Believe and live!" (John 6:47; 11:25-26).[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Mohammed was swift to shed blood (Rom. 3:15-17); Christ shed His own blood for the salvation of many (Eph. 1:7). [/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Mohammed preached "Death to the infidels!"; Christ prayed "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do" (Luke 23:34).[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Mohammed declared a holy war (Jihad) against infidels; Christ achieved a holy victory on Calvary's cross (Col. 2:14-15) and His followers share in that victory (John 16:33).[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Mohammed constrained people by conquest; Christ constrained people by love (2 Cor. 5:14).[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Modern terrorists derive their inspiration from Mohammed and carry out their despicable atrocities in the name of his god; Christians derive their inspiration from the One who said, "Blessed are the peacemakers" (Matthew 5:9).[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Modern day disciples of Mohammed respond to the terrorist attacks by cheering in the streets; modern day disciples of Christ are deeply grieved at past atrocities carried out by those who were "Christians" in name only (the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, etc.).[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Many Muslims are peaceful and peace-loving because they do not strictly follow the teachings of their founder; many Christians are peaceful and peace-loving because they do strictly follow the teachings of their Founder (Rom. 12:17-21).[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Mohammed called upon his servants to fight; Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world; if My kingdom were of this world, then would My servants fight . . . but now is My kingdom not from here" (John 18:36)[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Mohammed ordered death to the Jews (see A.Guillaume, The Life of Muhammad, Oxford University Press [1975], p. 369); Christ ordered that the Gospel be preached "to the Jew first" (Rom. 1:16). [/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]The Qur'an says, "Fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them" (Qu'ran 9.5); Christ said, "Preach the Gospel to every creature" (Mark 16:15). [/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Mohammed's mission was to conquer the world for Allah; Christ's mission was to conquer sin's penalty and power by substitutionary atonement (2 Cor. 5:21; 1 Pet. 3:18).[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Mohammed claimed that there was but one God, Allah; Christ claimed that He was God (John 10:30-31; John 8:58-59; John 5:18; John 14:9). [/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Mohammed's Tomb: OCCUPIED! Christ's tomb: EMPTY! ” [/li]
[/list]

http://www.frontline.org.za/articles/crusades_all

@Olaadegbu: You haven't retired this old "tired" website material?! man, O se pupo. You must be the one who have eyes can not see. Heve ears but can hear a sound. Whose heart is harder than a stone, because if you look under a stone after a rainfall, it will be wet.

Who is the another comforter that Jesus promised, if we take it that Jesus was the former comforter? If Jesus is not taking as the former comforter, please tell us who are the former that he was alluding to before he told us in the bible about another comforter?

Was the first/former abiding with you now? is the another also abiding with you? Was the former comforter a "holy ghost" since i know you will sheepishly argue that the another comforter a holy ghost?

And what is the difference between Jesus and any of the two comforters, if he is not one of the two, by nature and deeds, etc? Is Jesus still abiding with us now and howif you say he is?

My muslim brothers and sisters, lets watch how olaadegbu and his brothers and sisters will trip over themselves on these matters. If you have any other ideas, lets lob it at them. I wanna see their heart take a good pounding. Lol. They don't have a good conscience, but definitely they do have hearts.

@Olaadegbu:

Mohammed said to the masses, "Convert or die!"; Christ said, "Believe and live!" (John 6:47; 11:25-26).

What if somebody does not want to believe? Is he left alone, since thats what Muhammad (AS) did, because howelse can you have arab non-muslims, if he did what you and your puppet masters are peddling? LOL. Mo mu iwo ogbeni yi! Your fallacy is exposed.


[quote]
Mohammed preached "Death to the infidels!"; Christ prayed "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do" (Luke 23:34).

Which father; King David or Capenter Joseph? Oh boy, Olaadegbu, you are so confused!

Modern terrorists derive their inspiration from Mohammed and carry out their despicable atrocities in the name of his god; Christians derive their inspiration from the One who said, "Blessed are the peacemakers" (Matthew 5:9).

Yet, the USA, Britain and all the collision of the willing nations (ala George Bush arm twisting), are Christian countries. I remember that the USA rushed the military hardwares to "Zionist" Israel to kill "Muslims". Now tell me where did the Christians gat this kinda inspirations? Definitely not from Muhammad (AS) since they are not Muslims? What about "Water boading" and the likes and even renditions? Ogbeni, o je jawo kuro ninu iwa palapala to nhu. Agba ni taree. And what kinda peacemaker is christianity when the christians are the "biggest killers" of today, with their nuclear bombs, shock and awe and trying to play "God" mindset?"

Mohammed called upon his servants to fight; Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world; if My kingdom were of this world, then would My servants fight . . . but now is My kingdom not from here" (John 18:36)

Muhammad (as) is not the master of Muslims. But Muhammad and all the Muslims have One Single Master, Allah. I guess the condition of the Muslims is better since we do not have human master and we are not servant to any but our Rabb! And why did Jesus fight so much not to die, if he had nothing to do with this world? I guess it looks good on paper, which is different from the reality in the heart. Didn't the Bible say that Jesus told people to buy swords? This reminds me of Fela's "you miss road" song. Only warriors buy swords because what will a peaceful or peacemaker persons "make sword do?!"

The Qur'an says, "Fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them" (Qu'ran 9.5); Christ said, "Preach the Gospel to every creature" (Mark 16:15).

You guys are lying without shame. If the preaching to every creature is true, then "I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel", and many other inflamatorily discriminating stataments from Jesus are therefore lies? Olaadegbu, who is zooming who then; Jesus or Christians? Definitely what came out of Isa bin Mariam (AS) was true.

I didn't feel like responding to your many lies. I just picked the ones that I think you are most "proud of showcasing" the Biblical Jesus kindness in. And I kinda slash them to shred. **Osisi, lol. Where are you? You must come to the aid of this dude. He is bleeding bad. He may hemorrage soon and it won't be fun to see him not getting the Redcross treatment he deserves, since you guys are the "rulers" of this world, at the present moment.

[/quote]

olabowale:

@Olaadegbu:
Which father; King David or Capenter Joseph? Oh boy, Olaadegbu, you are so confused!

How can a slave know what family members are talking about?  You cannot understand it with your islamic spectacles, its called family talk.

olabowale:

Yet, the USA, Britain and all the collision of the willing nations (ala George Bush arm twisting), are Christian countries. I remember that the USA rushed the military hardwares to "Zionist" Israel to kill "Muslims". Now tell me where did the Christians gat this kinda inspirations? Definitely not from Muhammad (AS) since they are not Muslims? What about "Water boading" and the likes and even renditions? Ogbeni, o je jawo kuro ninu iwa palapala to nhu. Agba ni taree. And what kinda peacemaker is christianity when the christians are the "biggest killers" of today, with their nuclear bombs, shock and awe and trying to play "God" mindset?"

Is that to refute that Mo preached death to the infidels or that he inspired terrorists to commit atrocities in the name of their god? For your information, Jesus' prayer showed a forgiving heart to the sinners being used by the devil to crucify Him, as he is still using his men to persecute God's children today. To defend your nation againsts terrorists is not a wrong thing to do.

olabowale:

Muhammad (as) is not the master of Muslims. But Muhammad and all the Muslims have One Single Master, Allah. I guess the condition of the Muslims is better since we do not have human master and we are not servant to any but our Rabb! And why did Jesus fight so much not to die, if he had nothing to do with this world? I guess it looks good on paper, which is different from the reality in the heart. Didn't the Bible say that Jesus told people to buy swords? This reminds me of Fela's "you miss road" song. Only warriors buy swords because what will a peaceful or peacemaker persons "make sword do?!"

Really, to me action speaks louder than words. When I see Allah's name being ridiculed I don't hear or see any muslim carrying placards, picketing or protesting or burning effigies but let someone make fun of Mohammed ala the Danish cartoons, come and see the muslims in Nigeria killing innocent people, and this does not only happen in Nigeria, if you listen to the news you will realise that it happens all over the world. Do you still claim that you do not have Mohammed as your master? your imams even call him Lord and in your holy books which has highly exhorted him to the high heavens.

olabowale:

You guys are lying without shame. If the preaching to every creature is true, then "I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel", and many other inflamatorily discriminating stataments from Jesus are therefore lies? Olaadegbu, who is zooming who then; Jesus or Christians? Definitely what came out of Isa bin Mariam (AS) was true.

Are you saying that Sura 9:5 is a lie? If you don't know what Jesus said there is no shame in asking Christians and they will tell you what He said in Matthew 28:18-20; Mark 16:15-20

Should we assume that the other 17 points are accurate since you only attemted to refute 5? And we can now see that all you did was to blow hot air.

@Olaadegbu: « #43 on: Yesterday at 11:38:54 PM »

Quote from: olabowale on Yesterday at 02:05:57 PM
@Olaadegbu:
Which father; King David or Capenter Joseph? Oh boy, Olaadegbu, you are so confused!

How can a slave know what family members are talking about? You cannot understand it with your islamic spectacles, its called family talk.

A bere oro lowo iwo ogbeni, wo esi tio fun wa! Tell me who the father is; David, Capenter, who? Don't humor me, man. lol.



[Quote]
Is that to refute that Mo preached death to the infidels or that he inspired terrorists to commit atrocities in the name of their god? For your information, Jesus' prayer showed a forgiving heart to the sinners being used by the devil to crucify Him, as he is still using his men to persecute God's children today. To defend your nation againsts terrorists is not a wrong thing to do.
[/quote]
The word "infidel" is in Timothy. Timothy is a Book in the Bible! That kills the Infidel association with Qur'aan, since you can't even argue that Kafir means infidel. Or you will say that? And you need to watch plenty of Youtube videos of "ChristianMissionary attrocities" before you continue, please. Evidently, you are are not up to date in the "evil" of christianity and its biase against "palestinians" who even have Christians amongs its ranks, which is not what we can say about the Zionist Israelis!

You know Jesus never forgave one of the two thieves your Bible said he was killed along with! So in aggregate, it is a 50/50% if you depend on Jesus, even using your Bible reports as my argument point. And if a group designates another group as a terrorist group, it is okay, according to you to defend your homeland against the terrosist group. Can you blame the palestianians people then or any other group who fight those who invade them?



[Quote]
Really, to me action speaks louder than words. When I see Allah's name being ridiculed I don't hear or see any muslim carrying placards, picketing or protesting or burning effigies but let someone make fun of Mohammed ala the Danish cartoons, come and see the muslims in Nigeria killing innocent people, and this does not only happen in Nigeria, if you listen to the news you will realise that it happens all over the world. Do you still claim that you do not have Mohammed as your master? your imams even call him Lord and in your holy books which has highly exhorted him to the high heavens.
[/quote]

If you and I are friends, which we are not, and I hear you ridicule Muhammad (AS), our friendship is finished. Then just imagine if you ridicule the Lord of Muhammad (AS) and me? Only Allah will ever soften my heart towards you in each situation.



[Quote]
Are you saying that Sura 9:5 is a lie?
[/quote]

I simply state that those who are killed, as instructed by Surah 9 Verse 5 are those who start the fight against Muslims for being Muslims. You must know what the yorubas say about a child should be grown enough to handle the sword before he asked how his father died? Islam was matured, it being a city state, while the "disbelievers" were still eager to end it by killing all the muslims. Is there any reason that they shuld not rise up in arm against the enemy of "Allah?" If Islam said people should be killed as soon as they left Islam, should there be any reason for the verses that speak about no compulsion in religion and people leaving islam and returning to it, over and again? It is you and your cohort who are the liars, man and not Surah 9 Veres 5!

If you don't know what Jesus said there is no shame in asking Christians and they will tell you what He said in Matthew 28:18-20; Mark 16:15-20

I know what they reported that Jesus said. I also know that Jesus cried, prayed and wept to "God!" Foolishly, some writers then turned around and called Jesus, the weeping, crying and praying man, god! How unreal is that, man?

Should we assume that the other 17 points are accurate since you only attemted to refute 5? And we can now see that all you did was to blow hot air.

I wo ogbeni yi, iwo awon 'eebo mi un" ti ko si e lara! I simple answered the "red lettered" verses, because you tend to emphasise them over the others. If they weren't important more than the other 12, you wouldn't have written them in red!

What I did was to react to what you presented as visually more important. Its like the way we left "holy ghost" alone and we iconoclastically talk abut the "son god!" If holy ghost was as equally important, you would not have relegated it to obscurity. Hence, you would be praying in the "name of holy spirit," instead of "in the name of jesus" to "father god!"

You see how I found a way to remind you that you are still worshipping three god, though you claim one God? You see very clearly the errors of your ways; having father god the most important, while son god is more important than ghost god! lol. In the famous Ijebu expression: Ema wule!

Why must the peaceful religion continue to be vilified? What do you Christians stand to gain? I have not seen where Jesus ever rebuked another religion for his own religion.

What is your problem?

olabowale:

If you and I are friends, which we are not, and I hear you ridicule Muhammad (AS), our friendship is finished. Then just imagine if you ridicule the Lord of Muhammad (AS) and me? Only Allah will ever soften my heart towards you in each situation.

see allah's definition of "mercy, peace and love" on display. ^^^

Why will I still be your friend if you insult my wife? Yet my mother is more important to me. Yet Muhammad (AS) is the most beloved to me in all creations! Think man.

I do not even insult you, yet I called your home and you refused to pick up. And never you called me! Stop showboating, man. lol.

I hope you do have some jealousy in you. I am saying the good kind of jealousy.

I am not Muslim but i think most ppl hate on muslim because of their misleading and untrusted sources errr the media? Those that I am associated with (different ethnic background) are ok ppl. I think we should see people as they are (human being) and not judge them for what they are(religion background)

Like I said in a previous thread,the problem is the mixture between the spirituality of religion + the political aspects.

Remove the political,everything is fine. What most people are looking for is for Muslims to call fellow 'muslims' out whenever they denigrade the religion & not justify their actions.

I still find it really sad the olabowale believes anyone that converts from Islam (apostasy) deserves to die !!!

When one reads statements like this from 'tech-savvy',supposedly educated adherents of a particular faith,you begin to wonder. . . . . .  .

One love.

Also moderators should stop all this censor,closing of threads etc. Its things like this (censor)we don't need . We all need to TALK !!!

@Jairzinho: I never said anyone who "converted" out of Islam deserves to die. If a person left Islam for a genuine reason, other than wilful deceit that others might leave it, which was his intention of entering it in the first place, there is no verse that says he should be killed. Otherwise the verse that speaks to leaving Islam and return to it, many times will have no place in the Qur'aan, and definitely no usefulness.

For example, one of my brothers converted out. And he just came back into it just few years ago. Many people are muslims, born or revert, yet don't understand a thing about Islam. Do you kill a person like that who convert out? is there not a chance for him to revert back in? What about the verse that says there is no compulsion in religion? You can be a believer, a non-believer or irreligious. Islam give room for all kind of beliefs.

Don't lie on me; Oh Brasiho.

olabowale:

@Jairzinho: I never said anyone who "converted" out of Islam deserves to die. If a person left Islam for a genuine reason, other than wilful deceit that others might leave it, which was his intention of entering it in the first place, there is no verse that says he should be killed. Otherwise the verse that speaks to leaving Islam and return to it, many times will have no place in the Qur'aan, and definitely no usefulness.

For example, one of my brothers converted out. And he just came back into it just few years ago. Many people are muslims, born or revert, yet don't understand a thing about Islam. Do you kill a person like that who convert out? is there not a chance for him to revert back in? What about the verse that says there is no compulsion in religion? You can be a believer, a non-believer or irreligious. Islam give room for all kind of beliefs.

I attach your previous quote on this: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-185191.0.html#msg2964296


who determines if one converted 'for genuine reasons'??

You or the convert. If I decide I want to leave christianity and become a moslem,why do I have to give a good reason to christians

Many years ago there was this guy that led one of the biggest fellowships in UI -[b]IVCU (Ibadan Varsity Christian Union),[/b]he later converted to Islam,and he always came back to UI almost every year to preach to people on why they should embrace Islam & not Christianity.
Tel em does he deserve to die according to your definition?

Yes,Christians felt (and i assume he's still doing this,still feel) really angry when they hear him preach Islam,even the posters and flyers of his event annoncing Imam so, so former head of IVCU was really provocative,but what can one do? He has made his choice,we can only pray for him that he sees the light.

Now imagine ,on that same campus,the head of MSS(Muslim Students Sociey) converts to Christianity and decides to hold crusades on this,what do you think would happen ,by your own definition? . . . .  . . . . .  . . . your guess is as good as mine.

So lets learn not to get unnecessarily emotional about our faiths,everyone should apply the spiritual aspects of his faith and leave  majority of the socio-political out. All faiths believe they are the right path to heaven,isn't it?

@Jairzinho: « #52 on: Today at 02:29:00 PM »

Quote from: olabowale on Yesterday at 09:20:49 PM
@Jairzinho: I never said anyone who "converted" out of Islam deserves to die. If a person left Islam for a genuine reason, other than wilful deceit that others might leave it, which was his intention of entering it in the first place, there is no verse that says he should be killed. Otherwise the verse that speaks to leaving Islam and return to it, many times will have no place in the Qur'aan, and definitely no usefulness.

For example, one of my brothers converted out. And he just came back into it just few years ago. Many people are muslims, born or revert, yet don't understand a thing about Islam. Do you kill a person like that who convert out? is there not a chance for him to revert back in? What about the verse that says there is no compulsion in religion? You can be a believer, a non-believer or irreligious. Islam give room for all kind of beliefs.


I attach your previous quote on this: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-185191.0.html#msg2964296

My argument them is the same as now, above. Is there a discrepancy between the two?

who determines if one converted 'for genuine reasons'??

You will hear it from the speech.

You or the convert. If I decide I want to leave christianity and become a moslem,why do I have to give a good reason to christians

No one leaves a better thing for a worse situation. So when a person leaves a religion, he or she should be able to give a genuine reason for the action. AQllah who knows whats in the heart, gave instructions to kill a "jew" who left Islam because his entering it in the first place, was of deceit to influence many to leaving it, along with him as he will leave it, later. It is the same Allah who allows many at least a friend of Umar bin Khattab to leave it in Madina, while he returned to his people in Makka. And later when the verse of "Don't disper in the Mercy of your Lord" was revealed, the man returned back to madina, becoming Muslim. It is the same Allah who allows wholesale forgiveness for the Makkans upon Victory over them. I have provided the verses in the Qur'aan which allows freedom in religion and also the reentering of Islam. Do your own research.

A person who deceitfully enter Islam thinking his coming out of it should have an adverse impact on it deserves to die, just like a man or woman who deceitful enter into a marriage deserves to get Zero out of it, when the marriage is over!

Many years ago there was this guy that led one of the biggest fellowships in UI -IVCU (Ibadan Varsity Christian Union),he later converted to Islam,and he always came back to UI almost every year to preach to people on why they should embrace Islam & not Christianity.
Tel em does he deserve to die according to your definition?

What reasons that led him out of Christianity? You should ask him that and act according to your Christian judgement> I am not a christian and so you are asking the wrong fella about this matter.

Yes,Christians felt (and i assume he's still doing this,still feel) really angry when they hear him preach Islam,even the posters and flyers of his event annoncing Imam so, so former head of IVCU was really provocative,but what can one do? He has made his choice,we can only pray for him that he sees the light.

You continue to talk about your "unhappiness and provocated emotion against him." Yet, you have not provided a single lie that he made against Christianity. The former Muslims who lied against Islam, should be asked to recount their statement, or give overwhelming evidence from Qur'aan and Sunnah/ahadith about their statement. If they can't and continue to spew the lies, I am certain that they deserve death! They may never be killed, but they can be written off as dead in the minds of believers. If a person leaves Islam for reasons that are matter of factly in Islam, say multiple marriage for example, they should not be harmed.

But when a fellow says things that are unsubstantiated, for example, there should not be any doubt, if they do not refrain that they do not deserve death. Allah says that those evil doers should not be allowed to spread their evil all over the society. If a people are not morally checked by another people, those who have immorality will spread and dominate the community. And before you know it, the immoral acts; lies, slander, backbiting, adultery, fornication and all evil actions will become the norm.

Now imagine ,on that same campus,the head of MSS(Muslim Students Sociey) converts to Christianity and decides to hold crusades on this,what do you think would happen ,by your own definition? . . . . . . . . . . . . your guess is as good as mine.

My guess is not the same as yours. My older brother was a senior research fellow at NISER some 30 plus years ago. He left Islam for many years, before he returned to it. I do have family members who left Islam and told me to my face that they do not like Islam. They are trying to convert their mother, an 86+ year old woman to leave Islam. My answer to them is tell me what Christianity has that Islam does not better? Or tell me what islam has than christianity is equal in goodliness? I am still waiting for answers. The problem is that Christianity is a lazy and I already put by sins on Jesus religion!People who do not want to shoulder their own responsibility for their salvation look away from Islam, because it is unpopular.

So lets learn not to get unnecessarily emotional about our faiths,everyone should apply the spiritual aspects of his faith and leave majority of the socio-political out. All faiths believe they are the right path to heaven,isn't it?

Socio-political of Islam has helped mevery much. I am not trying to blow my own horn, now. Less than a month ago, my business partner was telling me that before she entered into partnership with me, she had a different opinion about how Islam treat women. She was surprised since all my words to her are words of encouragement and kindness; head and shoulders in gentlemanliness over white men from Australia, and many parts of the USA and even the "cultured England and rough Irish!" It is Islam that restricts me. It is not my yorubaness. I am sure even on Nairaland, I could pick fights with many, if it is not my Islam that has guided me so.

olabowale:

My argument them is the same as now, above. Is there a discrepancy between the two?

Of course,what kind of room is that?? That permits you to KILL converts

olabowale:

No one leaves a better thing for a worse situation. So when a person leaves a religion, he or she should be able to give a genuine reason for the action. AQllah who knows whats in the heart, gave instructions to kill a "jew" who left Islam because his entering it in the first place, was of deceit to influence many to leaving it, along with him as he will leave it, later. It is the same Allah who allows many at least a friend of Umar bin Khattab to leave it in Madina, while he returned to his people in Makka. And later when the verse of "Don't disper in the Mercy of your Lord" was revealed, the man returned back to madina, becoming Muslim. It is the same Allah who allows wholesale forgiveness for the Makkans upon Victory over them. I have provided the verses in the Qur'aan which allows freedom in religion and also the reentering of Islam. Do your own research.

A person who deceitfully enter Islam thinking his coming out of it should have an adverse impact on it deserves to die, just like a man or woman who deceitful enter into a marriage deserves to get Zero out of it, when the marriage is over!

Herein lies the difference btw Christianity and Islam,whereas muslims believe they can 'help' God carry out His will,christians believe God is Omnipotent(all Powerful).

I think muslims believe in pre-destination,why then would you think God cannot take a life he CREATED,and requires your assistance? If the convert is destined for destruction already for leaving the true path(Islam),why KILL?

You're also saying if a wife enters a marriage deceitfully ,deserves death??

olabowale:

No one leaves a better thing for a worse situation. So when a person leaves a religion, he or she should be able to give a genuine reason for the action. AQllah who knows whats in the heart, gave instructions to kill a "jew" who left Islam because his entering it in the first place, was of deceit to influence many to leaving it, along with him as he will leave it, later. It is the same Allah who allows many at least a friend of Umar bin Khattab to leave it in Madina, while he returned to his people in Makka. And later when the verse of "Don't disper in the Mercy of your Lord" was revealed, the man returned back to madina, becoming Muslim. It is the same Allah who allows wholesale forgiveness for the Makkans upon Victory over them. I[b] have provided the verses in the Qur'aan which allows freedom in religion and also the reentering of Islam. Do your own research. [/b]

You people take the battle narratives in the Koran ,literally, I don't have these verses,but where one isn't free to convert,thre's a problem. It isthe moral/lesson of these narratives the Holy Prophet intended for you to take.

olabowale:

What reasons that led him out of Christianity? You should ask him that and act according to your Christian judgement> I am not a christian and so you are asking the wrong fella about this matter.

You continue to talk about your "unhappiness and provocated emotion against him." Yet, you have not provided a single lie that he made against Christianity. The former Muslims who lied against Islam, should be asked to recount their statement, or give overwhelming evidence from Qur'aan and Sunnah/ahadith about their statement. If they can't and continue to spew the lies, I am certain that they deserve death! They may never be killed, but they can be written off as dead in the minds of believers. If a person leaves Islam for reasons that are matter of factly in Islam, say multiple marriage for example, they should not be harmed.

Harm??

I honestly don't need your advise on it,I'm only contrasting a Christian's reaction,to a muslims'.

In my caseI would try to speak with the convert to find out why,so i can show him relevant scriptures and then pray for him,whether his reasons are genuine or not isn't the issue here. His spiritual well being  is paramount. I have no authority over his life and neither does anyone else.

olabowale:

My guess is not the same as yours. My older brother was a senior research fellow at NISER some 30 plus years ago. He left Islam for many years, before he returned to it. I do have family members who left Islam and told me to my face that they do not like Islam. They are trying to convert their mother, an 86+ year old woman to leave Islam. My answer to them is tell me what Christianity has that Islam does not better? Or tell me what islam has than christianity is equal in goodliness? I am still waiting for answers. The problem is that Christianity is a lazy and I already put by sins on Jesus religion!People who do not want to shoulder their own responsibility for their salvation look away from Islam, because it is unpopular.

This is a gross misconception. Christianity believes that we are saved by grace of God and not by our efforts,but one still needs to live according to the Word of God to claim these promises. Just like you have muslims who don't pray,fast during Ramadan,you also have Christians who don't live right. The Holy Prophet Mohammed(pbuh) recognised the Virgin birth of Jesus, Jesus is referred to as Messiah(Al Masih)he encouraged muslims to read the gospels(Injeeen),I wonder why you are meant to read it and not believe it?

olabowale:

My argument them is the same as now, above. Is there a discrepancy between the two?
Socio-political of Islam has helped mevery much. I am not trying to blow my own horn, now. Less than a month ago, my business partner was telling me that before she entered into partnership with me, she had a different opinion about how Islam treat women. She was surprised since all my words to her are words of encouragement and kindness; head and shoulders in gentlemanliness over white men from Australia, and many parts of the USA and even the "cultured England and rough Irish!" It is Islam that restricts me. It is not my yorubaness. I am sure even on Nairaland, I could pick fights with many, if it is not my Islam that has guided me so.

Even an atheist could be truthful and courteous in business. Whereas some other muslim may not behave properly ,so leave that out. Political Islam is is where muslims want to impose islam on others by force,trying to mirror the military /political conquests of the Holy Prophet. If indeed Islam is the only path to Heaven,why the FORCE(COMPULSION)?

May Allah strengthen HAMAS and shame the enemies, sons of pigs!!

Javalove's signature.

and you wonder why you guys are easy targets of the media.

See where the modern day terrorists get their inspiration from while committing their atrocious acts:

[list]
[li]"Fight in the way of Allah." 2:190, 2:244[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]War is ordained by Allah, and all Muslims must be willing to fight, whether they like it or not. 2:216[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]If you die fighting for Allah, you'll be rewarded in heaven. 3:157[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Those who die fighting for Allah will go to heaven. 3:195[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars. 4:74[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 4:89[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant. 4:91[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]God will guide disbelievers down a road that leads to everlasting hell. 4:168-169[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Allah makes some people sin. He will not cleanse their hearts. They will have ignominy in this world, and in the Hereafter an awful doom. 5:41[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, and tooth for tooth. 5:45[/li]
[li][/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Christians will be burned in the Fire. 5:72[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Muslims that make friends with disbelievers will face a doom prepared for them by Allah. 5:80[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Allah chooses to lead some astray, and he lays ignominy on those who disbelieve. 6:125[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Allah will punish the disbelieving Jews until the Day of Resurrection. 7:167[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Those that the Muslims killed were not really killed by them. It was Allah who did the killing. 8:17[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Don't let the disbelievers think they can escape. They are your enemy and the enemy of Allah. 8:59-60[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Believers must fight for Allah. They must kill and be killed , and are bound to do so by the Torah, Gospel, and Quran. But Allah will reward them for it. 9:111[/li]
[/list]

And they come to tell us that Islam is the religion of peace!!!!

@Jairzinho: « #54 on: Yesterday at 07:57:22 PM »

Of course,what kind of room is that?? That permits you to KILL converts

Ogbeni; a convert out of Islam who lies to enter it the first time, without pure intention to remain in it, and even those who are born in it, when they convert out, begin to intentionally, because of deceitfulness lies against Islam deserves death. Let me help you to understand my position; if a christian were to convert out of christianity to judaism or hinduism for the sake of our argument, if he then maligns christianity by saying that all Christians believe that Jesus is not god or that trinity is not part of the christian belief and or Paul is not revered by the christians in a way that he is beloved, then he deserves to die, if he continues to postulate these ideas after he has been warned!

Even me who is not a Christian knows that the Christian belief is not short of these three. Islam should be defended by its adherents. If you can't defend your religion, especially when blatant lies are told about it, it is not my fault. Blame your weak conviction. You can't tell me to take after you, since my religion and my conviction are not the same as yours. And as much as I love women, I will not marry (Am allowed four, you know) a woman who is not a muslim. And I dont care if she is Chucha of Brasil or the pretty woman of Bahia or the international models from Brasil.



[Quote]
Herein lies the difference btw Christianity and Islam,whereas muslims believe they can 'help' God carry out His will,christians believe God is Omnipotent(all Powerful).
[/quote]

The same way Messenger/Prophet Musa (AS) helped God, so shall Muslims help when Allah/the God commands. Allah says in the Qur'aan; "It is not befitting for believers to have an opinion when Allah and His Messenger (Prophet Muhammad) (AS) have decided on a matter. A believer says I hear and I obey!" In another place Allah says a believer will say I hear and I obey and i seek forgiveness. yet in another Allay says obey Muhammad (AS) when he calls you to what will give you "Life!" In this case even though you are alive, not following Muhammad makes you a spiritually dead being. Now whats your beef if I obey Allah or "help" as Moses helped? Afterall Jesus was tryng to help since you said that he came to rescue (lol) lost souls!?

I think muslims believe in pre-destination,why then would you think God cannot take a life he CREATED,and requires your assistance? If the convert is destined for destruction already for leaving the true path(Islam),why KILL?

And no life is taking except Allah has ordained it to be so. If an evil person is snurfed out of the community, there is no blame in it, since if he is not terminated, his being alive may be a bigger trial on many and probably the whole community. Look here bro, America thought that Osama bin Laden is evil, they are still chasing him around. They thought Saddam was bad, they killed him. So whats wrong in eliminating a "cancer" from the mist of "good people; the society at large?" I beg ol boy, lets have a good thinking as we argue this matter.

You're also saying if a wife enters a marriage deceitfully ,deserves death??

I forgot that you understand Portuguese only. I never said such a thing. I used the similitude of deceitful person who enter marriage for other than love and hope that they will grow up together and "death will be the terminating reason of the marriage". Hence such a person does not deserve to inherit any part of the wealthy spouse when the marriage ends. Thats what I said, since it was built on deceit! Get it together, man.



[Quote]
You people take the battle narratives in the Koran ,literally, I don't have these verses,but where one isn't free to convert,thre's a problem. It isthe moral/lesson of these narratives the Holy Prophet intended for you to take.
[/quote]

I know. We are true to the words and its spiritual intents. Unlike you who have to find every which way till sunday to change what the Bible said you should do. Very good example; Verse 29 or Mark 12 says that Jesus said that he and his companions/listeners/followesr have the same Lord God Who is One God. But you have to find a way to make "trinity" dominate, even though the word does not appear on any part of the "Old or New" Testaments! Now tell me; you want me to abandone what I can read for what i only have to make up in my head?



[Quote]
Harm??

I honestly don't need your advise on it,I'm only contrasting a Christian's reaction,to a muslims'.
[/quote]

How has he harmed Christianity? I know you don't need my advise, so quit complaining to me. If a woman were to have a problem with a husband who is marrying another wife, she may seek divorce. I think that she has a legitimate reason, since Fatima Zara, binta Muhammad (AS) has same objection. But that is not enough to leave Islam and then use this to malign it, since a man is not forced to marry more than one wife.

Now if a person left Islam and bad mouth it, with a lot of lies, and the muslim community calls him out on it, and he does not desist, should he be allowed to continue to carry on business as usual? You must not be serious if you think this will be the case.

In my caseI would try to speak with the convert to find out why,so i can show him relevant scriptures and then pray for him,whether his reasons are genuine or not isn't the issue here. His spiritual well being is paramount. I have no authority over his life and neither does anyone else.

Let me ask you, do you think God Almighty Who created all thing is (are; I can't believe I write this) 3; son, father, and ghost? What happened to the father and son when ghost is mounting/sorry overshadowing Mary? What happened to father and ghost when son is in the "fetal stages in the belly of Mary?" What happened to father and ghost when son was helpless baby before he gained strength? What happened to father and ghost when son was still without wisdom? What happened to father and ghost when son was begging, crying, weeping, praying to God to rescue him? What happened to father and ghost as son was betrayed, arrested, whipped, beat up, bleeding, hung on the cross and in the cave; lifeless according to you? Am waiting for answers. Just maybe you can provide any, in good conscience. Okay in logical reasoning! Do the Children of Israel/Jews administer oil on the body of 3 days dead person?



[Quote]
This is a gross misconception. Christianity believes that we are saved by grace of God and not by our efforts,but one still needs to live according to the Word of God to claim these promises. Just like you have muslims who don't pray,fast during Ramadan,you also have Christians who don't live right.
[/quote]

I expected that you write Jesus in there. Insteadyou are writing "God!" Which of the God are you talking about; Father, Son or Ghost?

The Holy Prophet Mohammed(pbuh) recognised the Virgin birth of Jesus, Jesus is referred to as Messiah(Al Masih)he encouraged muslims to read the gospels(Injeeen),I wonder why you are meant to read it and not believe it?

Show me a verse in the Qur'aan or an ahadith where Allah or His Messenger encourages muslims to read the Gospel? There will not be an answer worth the question from you. To believe in the Injil is not to believe in your Bible. The injil to be believed in you don't have in the christian community.



[Quote]
Even an atheist could be truthful and courteous in business. Whereas some other muslim may not behave properly ,so leave that out. Political Islam is is where muslims want to impose islam on others by force,trying to mirror the military /political conquests of the Holy Prophet. If indeed Islam is the only path to Heaven,why the FORCE(COMPULSION)?
[/quote]

No one is forcing you. You are free to be a non-muslim. But you are not free to lie, except that you will be call out on it. I will be very happy when the Muslims can imitate the prophet, not by word of mouth alone, but also by deeds!


@bawomolo (m) Re: « #55 on: Today at 05:02:02 AM »
Quote
May Allah strengthen HAMAS and shame the enemies, sons of pigs!!

Javalove's signature.

and you wonder why you guys are easy targets of the media.

[/quote]

It was reported that the Pigs and Apes have "Children!" So there is no actual sons of pigs/apes!



@OLAADEGBU (m) Re: « #56 on: Today at 11:49:43 AM »
[quote]
See where the modern day terrorists get their inspiration from while committing their atrocious acts:


Quote


"Fight in the way of Allah." 2:190, 2:244
War is ordained by Allah, and all Muslims must be willing to fight, whether they like it or not. 2:216
If you die fighting for Allah, you'll be rewarded in heaven. 3:157
Those who die fighting for Allah will go to heaven. 3:195
Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars. 4:74
Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 4:89
If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant. 4:91
God will guide disbelievers down a road that leads to everlasting hell. 4:168-169
Allah makes some people sin. He will not cleanse their hearts. They will have ignominy in this world, and in the Hereafter an awful doom. 5:41
Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, and tooth for tooth. 5:45
[/li]

[li]Christians will be burned in the Fire. 5:72
Muslims that make friends with disbelievers will face a doom prepared for them by Allah. 5:80
Allah chooses to lead some astray, and he lays ignominy on those who disbelieve. 6:125
Allah will punish the disbelieving Jews until the Day of Resurrection. 7:167
Those that the Muslims killed were not really killed by them. It was Allah who did the killing. 8:17
Don't let the disbelievers think they can escape. They are your enemy and the enemy of Allah. 8:59-60
Believers must fight for Allah. They must kill and be killed , and are bound to do so by the Torah, Gospel, and Quran. But Allah will reward them for it. 9:111

Ogbeni, you are still peddling this, without letting off? O ga o. I wish I can get you a job to do. At least I am sure you will go at it with one track mind. You are dependable, except you must be giving all the blue prints without allowing you to develop any idea of your own! Bawo ni, anyway?



@argent Re: « #57 on: Today at 02:32:37 PM »

And they come to tell us that Islam is the religion of peace!!!!

And you told me that you turn the other cheek!!! Stop it, man. I dont believe you.



Where is **Osisi? Lol.

olabowale:

@Jairzinho: « #54 on: Yesterday at 07:57:22 PM »
Ogbeni; a convert out of Islam who lies to enter it the first time, without pure intention to remain in it, and even those who are born in it, when they convert out, begin to intentionally, [s]because of deceitfulness lies against Islam deserves death[/s]. Let me help you to understand my position; if a christian were to convert out of christianity to judaism or hinduism for the sake of our argument, if he then maligns christianity by saying that all Christians believe that Jesus is not god or that trinity is not part of the christian belief and or Paul is not revered by the christians in a way that he is beloved, then he deserves to die, if he continues to postulate these ideas after he has been warned!

If this is your view you have missed it. Allah gave this instructions to the holy prophet during a time of war. The battle was essentially between Islam and the pagan religions of Arabia. Conversion into or from Islam could be likened to the activities of a secret agent,to undermine the war strategy and plans. Its just like an American posing as Russian and living among the Russians during the cold war to ostentiably reveal Russian secrets to the Americans.
The punishment for such high crimes which is also known as treason,has always been death.

Fast track to 2009. . .  . . . in today's world the above is(or should) no longer be applicable, like I said most of these narratives are for moral examples not to be practicalised in modern times.

Or are you still at war? If yes,with who?

So take the Christian example,the war has moved to a spiritual level now,beyond the physical,the holy prophet did what he did,just like the crusaders back then-conquer lands and people in the name of religion. Now you convert people by appealing to their reasoning and sense of piety not by threats of death like in the old days.

olabowale:

The same way Messenger/Prophet Musa (AS) helped God, so shall Muslims help when Allah/the God commands. Allah says in the Qur'aan; "It is not befitting for believers to have an opinion when Allah and His Messenger (Prophet Muhammad) (AS) have decided on a matter. A believer says I hear and I obey!" In another place Allah says a believer will say I hear and I obey and i seek forgiveness. yet in another Allay says obey Muhammad (AS) when he calls you to what will give you "Life!" In this case even though you are alive, not following Muhammad makes you a spiritually dead being. Now whats your beef if I obey Allah or "help" as Moses helped? Afterall Jesus was tryng to help since you said that he came to rescue (lol) lost souls!?

And no life is taking except Allah has ordained it to be so. If an evil person is snurfed out of the community, there is no blame in it, since if he is not terminated, his being alive may be a bigger trial on many and probably the whole community. Look here bro, America thought that Osama bin Laden is evil, they are still chasing him around. They thought Saddam was bad, they killed him. So whats wrong in eliminating a "cancer" from the mist of "good people; the society at large?" I beg ol boy, lets have a good thinking as we argue this matter.

Another fundamental flaw. Tell me is it the will of God that the fatwa be declared on Salman Rushdie,for his book 'The Satanic Verses'? If yes,why is he(Rushdie) still alive? Are you saying God cannot take his life where he is hiding? Does God really need a fatwa to take the life He created? or maybe God doesn't really want him dead,so why the fatwa? People mix-up their personal emotions and substitute it for the will of God,it happens in Christianity too,you are unhappy/angry about something and you assume your gut feeling,is the will of God. have a rethink,don't be defensive,think this through.

America's war with Osama, is political & thats why I expect Muslims like you to be able to perfectly extricate your religion from this,he has a grouse which he believes is from God,but its largely political. The Americans equipped him against the soviets & now he's coming back to haunt them,same way the americans cannot claim they are fulfiling a christian agenda.

olabowale:

I know. We are true to the words and its spiritual intents. Unlike you who have to find every which way till sunday to change what the Bible said you should do. Very good example; Verse 29 or Mark 12 says that Jesus said that he and his companions/listeners/followesr have the same Lord God Who is One God. But you have to find a way to make "trinity" dominate, even though the word does not appear on any part of the "Old or New" Testaments! Now tell me; you want me to abandone what I can read for what i only have to make up in my head?

Let me ask you, do you think God Almighty Who created all thing is (are; I can't believe I write this) 3; son, father, and ghost? What happened to the father and son when ghost is mounting/sorry overshadowing Mary? What happened to father and ghost when son is in the "fetal stages in the belly of Mary?" What happened to father and ghost when son was helpless baby before he gained strength? What happened to father and ghost when son was still without wisdom? What happened to father and ghost when son was begging, crying, weeping, praying to God to rescue him? What happened to father and ghost as son was betrayed, arrested, whipped, beat up, bleeding, hung on the cross and in the cave; lifeless according to you? Am waiting for answers. Just maybe you can provide any, in good conscience. Okay in logical reasoning! Do the Children of Israel/Jews administer oil on the body of 3 days dead person?

Please don't start trying to quote half truths about the Bible,this is an Islamic thread,if you want to contest the Bible,meet me up in the Christian section. I know many people have taken you up on many of these falsehoods,so lets keep our eye on the ball here.

olabowale:

How has he harmed Christianity? I know you don't need my advise, so quit complaining to me. If a woman were to have a problem with a husband who is marrying another wife, she may seek divorce. I think that she has a legitimate reason, since Fatima Zara, binta Muhammad (AS) has same objection. But that is not enough to leave Islam and then use this to malign it, since a man is not forced to marry more than one wife.

Now if a person left Islam and bad mouth it, with a lot of lies, and the muslim community calls him out on it, and he does not desist, should he be allowed to continue to carry on business as usual? You must not be serious if you think this will be the case.

Nobody said he harmed Christianity and I am certainly not complaining,I was just using him as an example of the difference in ways we react to converts. Christians are confident ,our faith will get us into heaven,so there isn't any competition. He is free to convert and say whatever he wishes,we will pray that he finds his way back- NOT KILL HIM.

olabowale:

Now if a person left Islam and bad mouth it, with a lot of lies, and the muslim community calls him out on it, and he does not desist, should he be allowed to continue to carry on business as usual? You must not be serious if you think this will be the case.

If Islam believes its a religion of God,what would one person's lies possibly do to change the 'will of God'? Or how will it affect all the millions that are already muslims? So like stated above,during the time of the prophet,changing faith etc was closer to what we call treason ,now . Today its not like that again. Killing one person is what people used to do in the Dark ages in Europe.
The prophet's grandson-Imam Hussain was beheaded outside Karbala in 680 AD because he didn't agree with the rulers of Islam(this incident gave rise to the birth of Shia Isam)are you telling me today 2009,if someone disagrees with the rulers of Islam,he should be beheaded?

@Jairzinho

Please don't start trying to quote half truths about the Bible,this is an Islamic thread,if you want to contest the Bible,meet me up in the Christian section. I know many people have taken you up on many of these falsehoods,so lets keep our eye on the ball here.

I would definitely meet you there as you progress to challenge you on christianity and bible and see if you could debunk most of the issues therein using your holy book as reference.

Lest I forget, Olabowale mentioned trinity and should that be our first discussion in your section and we create a thread for same:TRINITY ?

Welcome to my world

Who knows How much i can get a used 2004 CRV jeep used in Nigeria for?

babs787:

@Jairzinho
I would definitely meet you there as you progress to challenge you on christianity and bible and see if you could debunk most of the issues therein using your holy book as reference.

Lest I forget, Olabowale mentioned trinity and should that be our first discussion in your section and we create a thread for same:TRINITY ?

Welcome to my world

Be my guest my friend. Just accept along with(olabowale),that you don't need to KILL anyone that converts from Islam.

Thanks for that,do we start with trinity?

No problems ,fire on. . . . . .if u don't mind discussing this in your Muslim thread.